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Homophobic abuse at today's game (ed - Not Charlton fans)
Comments
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Supporting causes publicly does not give you a free pass when you do make racist comments.lonman said:
I think we're both on the same page that it's distasteful. I feel we diverge on the best way to tackle it. In my opinion it doesn't need tackling. It is what it is.Baldybonce said:lonman said:I was at the game yesterday and fwiw didn't hear any homophobic abuse. I think football attracts people from all different walks of life and that's one of the elements I enjoy. I get we have some idiots but no more than any other team. I've been to all the home games and 80% of away games this year and to be honest have yet to hear any racist or homophobic chants/abuse from any fans. Chanting creates the atmosphere, the Addams family chant is not to my taste being honest but I think Banning it because it's distasteful is probably OTT.When you think about it, it's about as distasteful as you can get and i'd quite happily never hear it again.Not to distract from the OP but Lineker and Richards on MOTD this morning thought the mispronunciation Idah's name was great fun. Casual racism?
I'm not a Lineker fanboy but I think he is probably one of the last people you could label a 'casual racist' The chap has offered to house Cross Channel Asylum Seekers, supports a lot of the kick it out stuff and in my humble opinion as a white 40 something would appear to be an all inclusive type of guy.
For me if you go out to find something that offends you'll always find it.
However in this case this is not casual racism0 -
I think your final point is pretty silly. My wife comes from a white Welsh speaking family and virtually nobody born and brought up in England pronounces her four letter forename correctly. This is not because of racism but because the pronunciation of Welsh vowels and consonants differs from the Queens English and is actually hard for non-Welsh speaking people to reproduce without practice. My Camberwell born mother never managed it and went her grave mispronouncing it.Baldybonce said:lonman said:I was at the game yesterday and fwiw didn't hear any homophobic abuse. I think football attracts people from all different walks of life and that's one of the elements I enjoy. I get we have some idiots but no more than any other team. I've been to all the home games and 80% of away games this year and to be honest have yet to hear any racist or homophobic chants/abuse from any fans. Chanting creates the atmosphere, the Addams family chant is not to my taste being honest but I think Banning it because it's distasteful is probably OTT.When you think about it, it's about as distasteful as you can get and i'd quite happily never hear it again.Not to distract from the OP but Lineker and Richards on MOTD this morning thought the mispronunciation Idah's name was great fun. Casual racism?1 -
Try saying Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Train Station2
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There are numerous Irish and Welsh names that are difficult to pronounce.Mametz said:
I think your final point is pretty silly. My wife comes from a white Welsh speaking family and virtually nobody born and brought up in England pronounces her four letter forename correctly. This is not because of racism but because the pronunciation of Welsh vowels and consonants differs from the Queens English and is actually hard for non-Welsh speaking people to reproduce without practice. My Camberwell born mother never managed it and went her grave mispronouncing it.Baldybonce said:lonman said:I was at the game yesterday and fwiw didn't hear any homophobic abuse. I think football attracts people from all different walks of life and that's one of the elements I enjoy. I get we have some idiots but no more than any other team. I've been to all the home games and 80% of away games this year and to be honest have yet to hear any racist or homophobic chants/abuse from any fans. Chanting creates the atmosphere, the Addams family chant is not to my taste being honest but I think Banning it because it's distasteful is probably OTT.When you think about it, it's about as distasteful as you can get and i'd quite happily never hear it again.Not to distract from the OP but Lineker and Richards on MOTD this morning thought the mispronunciation Idah's name was great fun. Casual racism?0 -
I think Charlton club stewards even at away games with the cooperation of the home club should be visible and filming the crowd. Those identified and without doubt involved in this obnoxious behaviour should be named, shamed and banned. Pictures of the individuals printed in the match day programme and on a wall of shame at The Valley. It’s no good wringing hands and saying it’s a societal problem, which of course it is but over and above that it’s a Charlton problem and we need to get on top of it. If we want to attract families and grow our support then these characters represent a barrier to that. We need to make The Valley and our away end a hostile environment for these morons. We can’t expect the fans alone to confront them. That would be foolhardy. The club must take a proactive lead.1
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cafcfan1990 said:
Ridiculous to even suggest it.Baldybonce said:lonman said:I was at the game yesterday and fwiw didn't hear any homophobic abuse. I think football attracts people from all different walks of life and that's one of the elements I enjoy. I get we have some idiots but no more than any other team. I've been to all the home games and 80% of away games this year and to be honest have yet to hear any racist or homophobic chants/abuse from any fans. Chanting creates the atmosphere, the Addams family chant is not to my taste being honest but I think Banning it because it's distasteful is probably OTT.When you think about it, it's about as distasteful as you can get and i'd quite happily never hear it again.Not to distract from the OP but Lineker and Richards on MOTD this morning thought the mispronunciation Idah's name was great fun. Casual racism?It's not actually. Although it didn't make me spit my toast out.In the modern world presenters not being bothered to find out how to pronounce foreign names is deemed a 'microaggression' .I have to learn this stuff for visiting worksites where people might be offended by what we see as humour.3 -
This is shameful if true.
I would confront a person doing it (abusive language) near me and bollocks to the personal consequences. I accept I will be on my own and probably more vilified than the original culprit but that is modern life.
If this is our problem, it is ours to confront, and ours to fight against.
If it happens elsewhere that does not excuse it, we ought to tackle abuse as a club and a fan base, or we become equivocal vindicators like quite a lot of Millwall fans seem to be.
If we have a problem we must own it and tackle it.6 -
No to:-ShootersHillGuru said:I think Charlton club stewards even at away games with the cooperation of the home club should be visible and filming the crowd. Those identified and without doubt involved in this obnoxious behaviour should be named, shamed and banned. Pictures of the individuals printed in the match day programme and on a wall of shame at The Valley. It’s no good wringing hands and saying it’s a societal problem, which of course it is but over and above that it’s a Charlton problem and we need to get on top of it. If we want to attract families and grow our support then these characters represent a barrier to that. We need to make The Valley and our away end a hostile environment for these morons. We can’t expect the fans alone to confront them. That would be foolhardy. The club must take a proactive lead.
Visibly filming the crowd
Naming and shaming
Pictures in programmes
"Wall of shame"
Intelligence can identify and take action against idiots without going down a very dubious and (IMO) disproportionate response (and an illegal response unless every one of those banned had also been convicted).
Yes to the rest.2 -
We have no club stewards, we use agency staff. They are no very good and often only want to fight issues with supporters that the club management see as importantShootersHillGuru said:I think Charlton club stewards even at away games with the cooperation of the home club should be visible and filming the crowd. Those identified and without doubt involved in this obnoxious behaviour should be named, shamed and banned. Pictures of the individuals printed in the match day programme and on a wall of shame at The Valley. It’s no good wringing hands and saying it’s a societal problem, which of course it is but over and above that it’s a Charlton problem and we need to get on top of it. If we want to attract families and grow our support then these characters represent a barrier to that. We need to make The Valley and our away end a hostile environment for these morons. We can’t expect the fans alone to confront them. That would be foolhardy. The club must take a proactive lead.
Are you aware that some if those who went to prison for the Stephen Lawrence abuse after the Fulham cup game in 2012 now attend the Valley as their banning orders are now up? Would you retrospectively ban them and put them up on the wall of shame?
As a club we are trying to get out this message at home games but do it through a PA system you cannot hear in the North Upper1 -
I thought excessive or inappropriate celebration in front of the other team’s fans was already a booking offence.SporadicAddick said:I've always hated us singing about the opposition, even when the songs could be deemed "appropriate".
"You're support is F*cking sh*t"
"Is this a library..."
"Your sister is..."
"Can we play you every week..."
"Your sh*t and you know you are..."
"Sh*t ground, no fans..."
All of these make me cringe because everyone could reasonably be sung at us (with the exception of one part of one song (shit ground))..and invariably we let in a goal or lose when we sing how shit the other team are...
There is a very simple principle that if adopted by all would at least remove the evidence of twats (even if it didnt remove the twats themselves (they'd soon get bored)) - sing about your own team, not the opposition or opposition players.
Sadly it will never happen.
One thing that could be changed however is players celebrating in front of or making gestures in front of opposition fans. This could be easily policed. If we can give yellow cards for taking a shirt off...
The principle would be that any goal celebration has to be clearly conducted in front of the teams fans or towards the centre of the pitch - players shouldn't be subject to being hit by objects, but remove the provocation in the first place and you are some way to resolving the problem.
I have been to a few games this season and there does seem to be an inordinate amount of dickheads compared with years gone by.0 - Sponsored links:
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I admire your stance seth but would very much caution against personally confronting a pissed up moron and a few of his mates. Yes I believe it’s a problem we need to own but the “we” in this is the club. I stand by my attempt at a solution above.seth plum said:This is shameful if true.
I would confront a person doing it (abusive language) near me and bollocks to the personal consequences. I accept I will be on my own and probably more vilified than the original culprit but that is modern life.
If this is our problem, it is ours to confront, and ours to fight against.
If it happens elsewhere that does not excuse it, we ought to tackle abuse as a club and a fan base, or we become equivocal vindicators like quite a lot of Millwall fans seem to be.
If we have a problem we must own it and tackle it.1 -
Not sure why you are anti my suggestion and in support of these morons who are bringing all of us and more importantly our club down to the level of Millwall. Quite why you want to protect them in any way shape or form is beyond me. I’d like to hear why you disagree with those four points. One happens at football regularly anyway. Filming of supporters is common Police practice.SporadicAddick said:
No to:-ShootersHillGuru said:I think Charlton club stewards even at away games with the cooperation of the home club should be visible and filming the crowd. Those identified and without doubt involved in this obnoxious behaviour should be named, shamed and banned. Pictures of the individuals printed in the match day programme and on a wall of shame at The Valley. It’s no good wringing hands and saying it’s a societal problem, which of course it is but over and above that it’s a Charlton problem and we need to get on top of it. If we want to attract families and grow our support then these characters represent a barrier to that. We need to make The Valley and our away end a hostile environment for these morons. We can’t expect the fans alone to confront them. That would be foolhardy. The club must take a proactive lead.
Visibly filming the crowd
Naming and shaming
Pictures in programmes
"Wall of shame"
Intelligence can identify and take action against idiots without going down a very dubious and (IMO) disproportionate response (and an illegal response unless every one of those banned had also been convicted).
Yes to the rest.0 -
If the club has no stewards, perhaps they should recruit a couple to fulfill the role I’ve suggested ?JohnnyH2 said:
We have no club stewards, we use agency staff. They are no very good and often only want to fight issues with supporters that the club management see as importantShootersHillGuru said:I think Charlton club stewards even at away games with the cooperation of the home club should be visible and filming the crowd. Those identified and without doubt involved in this obnoxious behaviour should be named, shamed and banned. Pictures of the individuals printed in the match day programme and on a wall of shame at The Valley. It’s no good wringing hands and saying it’s a societal problem, which of course it is but over and above that it’s a Charlton problem and we need to get on top of it. If we want to attract families and grow our support then these characters represent a barrier to that. We need to make The Valley and our away end a hostile environment for these morons. We can’t expect the fans alone to confront them. That would be foolhardy. The club must take a proactive lead.
Are you aware that some if those who went to prison for the Stephen Lawrence abuse after the Fulham cup game in 2012 now attend the Valley as their banning orders are now up? Would you retrospectively ban them and put them up on the wall of shame?
As a club we are trying to get out this message at home games but do it through a PA system you cannot hear in the North UpperThose who went to prison and served their ban have done their time and received their punishment. From a personal perspective I wouldn’t seek out their company but they now have the right to attend. It’s all about nipping this current crop of idiots in the bud.0 -
Seth is 100% spot on.ShootersHillGuru said:
I admire your stance seth but would very much caution against personally confronting a pissed up moron and a few of his mates. Yes I believe it’s a problem we need to own but the “we” in this is the club. I stand by my attempt at a solution above.seth plum said:This is shameful if true.
I would confront a person doing it (abusive language) near me and bollocks to the personal consequences. I accept I will be on my own and probably more vilified than the original culprit but that is modern life.
If this is our problem, it is ours to confront, and ours to fight against.
If it happens elsewhere that does not excuse it, we ought to tackle abuse as a club and a fan base, or we become equivocal vindicators like quite a lot of Millwall fans seem to be.
If we have a problem we must own it and tackle it.
And if we all did it, it would soon stop.
We are all responsible for our reputation as a club.
But too many are worried so will expect someone else to deal with it 🤷♀️Who on earth goes to a League One football game & chants homophobic abuse ffs?
Morons! Ban them for life.2 -
Enough evidence with a bit of luck to take matters further.Lordflashheart said:There was a Policeman in the away end openly videoing our fans - I couldn’t believe how stupid some of the people around me were openly chanting homophobic abuse, and abuse at their goalkeeper, and the Policeman simply stood there and filmed them - they could see he was filming them, but carried on - idiots
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I won’t go to as many away games as I used to because of the morons that follow us . They are mainly young but not always . I’ve sat with my son a couple of times only to have to put up with them openly taking coke and being abusive whenever they get the chance . I know it’s sad but thank god for Charlton TV .0
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Just like with Seth I admire your stance. Personally I think it ill advised and likely to cause a confrontation that could result in injury and I’d also suggest you yourself getting a ban. The technology exists to identify these people and it’s the club’s responsibility to enforce zero tolerance to it. We as fans can fully support the club in its actions to do so.KBslittlesis said:
Seth is 100% spot on.ShootersHillGuru said:
I admire your stance seth but would very much caution against personally confronting a pissed up moron and a few of his mates. Yes I believe it’s a problem we need to own but the “we” in this is the club. I stand by my attempt at a solution above.seth plum said:This is shameful if true.
I would confront a person doing it (abusive language) near me and bollocks to the personal consequences. I accept I will be on my own and probably more vilified than the original culprit but that is modern life.
If this is our problem, it is ours to confront, and ours to fight against.
If it happens elsewhere that does not excuse it, we ought to tackle abuse as a club and a fan base, or we become equivocal vindicators like quite a lot of Millwall fans seem to be.
If we have a problem we must own it and tackle it.
And if we all did it, it would soon stop.
We are all responsible for our reputation as a club.
But too many are worried so will expect someone else to deal with it 🤷♀️Who on earth goes to a League One football game & chants homophobic abuse ffs?
Morons! Ban them for life.0 -
Having travelled all over the country in the 60’s and 70’s, I have to say there is nothing particularly dangerous or threatening about our support. Little crowd of pikies in front of me who hadn’t dressed warmly enough for the weather and were absolutely freezing. The uglier brother of the clan would occasionally shout in a deep voice ‘ RED ARMY’ and fail miserably to get any response from anyone. The little ugly one would just shout obscenities and rub his hands together as he was absolutely frozen. He once shouted to a Cheltenham player “ You have a receding hairline” , I think it was humour as we used to shout ‘ bald bastard’ back in the day.
Too much alcohol and too many people who can’t hold it. Most couldn’t punch their way out of a paper bag and would run a mile if trouble ever came their way. Shouting homophobic abuse in 2022 is a lack of intelligence and nothing else. The chances are the bloke in front is gay, and he might break your neck if you carry on.Nothing to see here, IMO.2 -
Shouting homophobic abuse is actually illegal and should not be tolerated. PLENTY TO SEE HEREmasicat said:Having travelled all over the country in the 60’s and 70’s, I have to say there is nothing particularly dangerous or threatening about our support. Little crowd of pikies in front of me who hadn’t dressed warmly enough for the weather and were absolutely freezing. The uglier brother of the clan would occasionally shout in a deep voice ‘ RED ARMY’ and fail miserably to get any response from anyone. The little ugly one would just shout obscenities and rub his hands together as he was absolutely frozen. He once shouted to a Cheltenham player “ You have a receding hairline” , I think it was humour as we used to shout ‘ bald bastard’ back in the day.
Too much alcohol and too many people who can’t hold it. Most couldn’t punch their way out of a paper bag and would run a mile if trouble ever came their way. Shouting homophobic abuse in 2022 is a lack of intelligence and nothing else. The chances are the bloke in front is gay, and he might break your neck if you carry on.Nothing to see here, IMO.7 -
They are mainly young mate i agree. But a couple of years ago at Reading, i had a guy and his teenage daughter stand up to watch the game when they could adequately see it siting down. Despite others and myself politely requesting them to sit down they refused. I had to watch the game on the concourse otherwise it would have been a waste of time.Bedsaddick said:I won’t go to as many away games as I used to because of the morons that follow us . They are mainly young but not always . I’ve sat with my son a couple of times only to have to put up with them openly taking coke and being abusive whenever they get the chance . I know it’s sad but thank god for Charlton TV .
The usual no brainers here ridiculed it when i spoke about it afterwards, that is the level of support that we carry.3 - Sponsored links:
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These vermin should be removed from the club....any discriminatory abuse is not legal and if the club(s) have evidence then use it and get rid of them, end of!5
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So weve got people on here who dont really do away games telling others they should be calling abuse out?6
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So they would not make the name and shame wall? Far too inconsistent for my likingShootersHillGuru said:
If the club has no stewards, perhaps they should recruit a couple to fulfill the role I’ve suggested ?JohnnyH2 said:
We have no club stewards, we use agency staff. They are no very good and often only want to fight issues with supporters that the club management see as importantShootersHillGuru said:I think Charlton club stewards even at away games with the cooperation of the home club should be visible and filming the crowd. Those identified and without doubt involved in this obnoxious behaviour should be named, shamed and banned. Pictures of the individuals printed in the match day programme and on a wall of shame at The Valley. It’s no good wringing hands and saying it’s a societal problem, which of course it is but over and above that it’s a Charlton problem and we need to get on top of it. If we want to attract families and grow our support then these characters represent a barrier to that. We need to make The Valley and our away end a hostile environment for these morons. We can’t expect the fans alone to confront them. That would be foolhardy. The club must take a proactive lead.
Are you aware that some if those who went to prison for the Stephen Lawrence abuse after the Fulham cup game in 2012 now attend the Valley as their banning orders are now up? Would you retrospectively ban them and put them up on the wall of shame?
As a club we are trying to get out this message at home games but do it through a PA system you cannot hear in the North UpperThose who went to prison and served their ban have done their time and received their punishment. From a personal perspective I wouldn’t seek out their company but they now have the right to attend. It’s all about nipping this current crop of idiots in the bud.0 -
Absolutely no idea. Was only aware it was going on once it had reached the stage of just general back and forth swearing and posturing nonsense. A few stewards had to get involved.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
About what?cafctom said:Games like this where it is a new ground, or the local derbies, tend to bring out the idiots.
Before the game had even started, and again at half time, there were Charlton fans rowing / threatening each other.
The saddest thing is that I completely expected it before the day had even happened. This was one of those games where you just knew the idiots would turn up for.Just f**k em off.0 -
You can't seriously be comparing what's being discussed on this thread to people standing at an away match?Chippycafc said:
They are mainly young mate i agree. But a couple of years ago at Reading, i had a guy and his teenage daughter stand up to watch the game when they could adequately see it siting down. Despite others and myself politely requesting them to sit down they refused. I had to watch the game on the concourse otherwise it would have been a waste of time.Bedsaddick said:I won’t go to as many away games as I used to because of the morons that follow us . They are mainly young but not always . I’ve sat with my son a couple of times only to have to put up with them openly taking coke and being abusive whenever they get the chance . I know it’s sad but thank god for Charlton TV .
The usual no brainers here ridiculed it when i spoke about it afterwards, that is the level of support that we carry.4 -
Hmmm.. Intending to go to my 1st away game in years when we play Sheff Wed next month with son and his girlfriend who live there. Reading this thread has put me off a bit getting tickets in the away end and potentially end up sitting next to a group of morons. Just don't want the hassle. Will probably get tickets for the home area instead.
Just have to sit on my hands when we score😂4 -
There is plenty of room at Hillsborough in the away end. My guess it will be sit where you like so you will not have any problems if you avoid the back of the standfat man on a moped said:Hmmm.. Intending to go to my 1st away game in years when we play Sheff Wed next month with son and his girlfriend who live there. Reading this thread has put me off a bit getting tickets in the away end and potentially end up sitting next to a group of morons. Just don't want the hassle. Will probably get tickets for the home area instead.
Just have to sit on my hands when we score😂3 -
I agree these idiots should be identified. If a ban is the right response, fair enough. What I'd like to see is a third option between ignoring the problem and banning them, which would involve them attending a course to understand what they've done wrong and why it is wrong. A bit like a speeding motorist gets a speed awareness course rather than a ban. This is precisely the sort of thing we could take a lead on as the Community Trust will have some expertise in educating around diversity.
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unless some fans are willing to para-glide from the stand i doubt a pitch invasion will occur.fat man on a moped said:Hmmm.. Intending to go to my 1st away game in years when we play Sheff Wed next month with son and his girlfriend who live there. Reading this thread has put me off a bit getting tickets in the away end and potentially end up sitting next to a group of morons. Just don't want the hassle. Will probably get tickets for the home area instead.
Just have to sit on my hands when we score😂4 -
UPDATE
Confirmed to Mick Everett, the Charlton Head of Match Day Operations by Cheltenham police that the three arrested for homophobic abuse were Cheltenham fans not Charlton fans.
There were 3 ejections of Charlton fans , 2 for alcohol related and 1 for failing to comply.30
