Jon Ronson’s excellent series “Things fell apart” looks at the source stories of some of the great cultural schisms in the last thirty years or so.
• Abortion • HIV/ AIDS • Internet shaming …… to name a few
He highlights how we have lost the ability to be curious about others and their views; Our speedy retreat to the polemic , and the labelling of others who are not like us.
It’s a podcast series that is really worth a listen
The journey of this thread exemplifies the problem wonderfully 😊
We began this perfectly reasonable thread with KillerAndFlash reporting "homophobic abuse" at the Cheltenham game. There was word that 3 Charlton fans were arrested for "homophobic abuse". This then seemed to be Cheltenham supporters. Anyway the discussion is, I believe, about football fans being "terribly saddened" by chants that offend people with same sex attraction. And presumably anyone of any attraction can be offended by these chants. So far so good.
Then we had a shoal of the exceptionally "tolerant" progressives among us (!) Aka the "Ban anyone who says anything I don't want to hear" Woke brigade. We then moved, imperceptibly, to the Woke ideology. What some people perceive Woke as. Differing views on this. And then onto what really lies behind the mindset of someone who purportedly is "sickened" by some forms of abuse (the homophobic chants in question) but perfectly ok with others (a few pointed out that a man who works to feed his family and is a "Scab" and lowest life form, if he chooses to continue to work to feed his family rather than be at the mercy of a union rep on a picket line. So we covered Marxist, Communist, Far-left leanings and how incompatible they are with the word of the century "tolerance" (the highest apparent virtue of the woke "religion")
And then for a few "Johnny come latelies" we had the rather tragic display of demanding that a person has to define themselves as "Antifascist" (never actually being told what this word means TO THEM) and if they don't limit their identity to this word ~ that MUST mean er ... They are a Fascist!!!
What a tiny and limited world such people have.
My point ~ rather lost under the weight of a rather intolerant (the irony of it all!) comments from a cluster of Christian-hating, Nation-hating, Marxists, was to simply suggest ~ yes, let us not sing abusive songs that mercilessly mock same sex attracted persons. But what is more ... Let us NOT STOP THERE. If you are TRULY sickened by other people being abused (which I think we have discovered on this thread ~ you are not) then this must be extended to ALL PERSONS not just the ones that are currently politically correct and fashionable.
You use the term Marxist over and over again. I have asked you over and over again to link to, or quote parts of Marx actual work that illustrate your point(s). You have not done so. It looks like you have a mysterious definition of Marxist that only you hold and keep to yourself. Yet earlier you wanted to describe what a true Christian is, and link it to the gospels. Do you know what you’re talking about?
Valley of Tears: Everyone is always trying to label me!
Also Valley of Tears: Clearly you are all woke Marxists.
Irony meter set to maximum.
It’s 2022 after all, we need a balanced argument. It’s not right that everyone in the thread says “homophobic abuse is bad”. We need some free thinkers on the thread to yell things like “it’s not that bad”. Otherwise it’s biased in here 🥴
Absolute state of this thread. There is a fundamental misunderstanding on this board and, in some corners, an unwillingness to change and adapt.
I'll call it out when I see it, and like on Tuesday when in the pub with a couple of mates, I will call out any homophobic or otherwise pejorative language immediately. (And much to my surprise, I got a very sincere apology.)
Im glad to read that the next time you hear someone/group shout, for example, "chav, pikey, scum" and other pejorative language you will call it out immediately. Being consistent with all forms of abuse is essential if one is to be taken seriously. Being aggrieved at just "some" forms of abuse makes the whole woke thing utterly ludicrous.
Good luck in making the world a better place. For everyone!
... Yes? You would be absolutely correct that I'd call it out. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
NB That said, I'm not sure in what context "scum" is necessarily directed against a certain group of people (whereas the other two are classist and anti-traveller respectively). The only thing I can think of is when used similarly to scab vis-a-vis picket lines - and tbf anyone crossing a picket line is a bit... well, scummy.
Not nice to refer to people as scum particularly when they are trying to do a job of work that they probably only do to feed their families and keep a roof over their head
I think the issue is around people making sacrifices (striking) for the common good. And those undermining the sacrifices made, yet then enjoying the gains (if there are any) achieved by industrial action.
Absolute state of this thread. There is a fundamental misunderstanding on this board and, in some corners, an unwillingness to change and adapt.
I'll call it out when I see it, and like on Tuesday when in the pub with a couple of mates, I will call out any homophobic or otherwise pejorative language immediately. (And much to my surprise, I got a very sincere apology.)
Im glad to read that the next time you hear someone/group shout, for example, "chav, pikey, scum" and other pejorative language you will call it out immediately. Being consistent with all forms of abuse is essential if one is to be taken seriously. Being aggrieved at just "some" forms of abuse makes the whole woke thing utterly ludicrous.
Good luck in making the world a better place. For everyone!
... Yes? You would be absolutely correct that I'd call it out. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
NB That said, I'm not sure in what context "scum" is necessarily directed against a certain group of people (whereas the other two are classist and anti-traveller respectively). The only thing I can think of is when used similarly to scab vis-a-vis picket lines - and tbf anyone crossing a picket line is a bit... well, scummy.
Not nice to refer to people as scum particularly when they are trying to do a job of work that they probably only do to feed their families and keep a roof over their head
I think the issue is around people making sacrifices (striking) for the common good. And those undermining the sacrifices made, yet then enjoying the gains (if there are any) achieved by industrial action.
But those who want to feed their families and ensure their kids are both warm and clothed are scum?
I don't remember much homophobic abuse at the Valley over the years. The only incident that sticks in my mind was some witty Charlton fan shouting out 'Are you a faggot Bent?' or something similar at Marcus Bent when he was playing for Sheffield United. The look of absolute contempt he shot back when he heard it was the only time I ever had any respect for the guy. Pretty sure he went on to rip us a new one in that game too.
We always used to sing "We can see you holding hands" to the Brighton fans and in return they called us "Dirty Northern Bastards" All good fun and nobody got harmed.
Ah yeah, all good clean fun. Remember the monkey chants too? Nobody got ‘harmed’.
I was referring to what was sung/heard at The Valley, and I can never recall our fans making monkey chants at black players.
I can. And zeig heil nazi salutes.
Have to agree to disagree then wont we.
Both happened regularly from Charlton fans at one point. We have moved on hugely since then.
Absolute state of this thread. There is a fundamental misunderstanding on this board and, in some corners, an unwillingness to change and adapt.
I'll call it out when I see it, and like on Tuesday when in the pub with a couple of mates, I will call out any homophobic or otherwise pejorative language immediately. (And much to my surprise, I got a very sincere apology.)
Im glad to read that the next time you hear someone/group shout, for example, "chav, pikey, scum" and other pejorative language you will call it out immediately. Being consistent with all forms of abuse is essential if one is to be taken seriously. Being aggrieved at just "some" forms of abuse makes the whole woke thing utterly ludicrous.
Good luck in making the world a better place. For everyone!
... Yes? You would be absolutely correct that I'd call it out. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
NB That said, I'm not sure in what context "scum" is necessarily directed against a certain group of people (whereas the other two are classist and anti-traveller respectively). The only thing I can think of is when used similarly to scab vis-a-vis picket lines - and tbf anyone crossing a picket line is a bit... well, scummy.
Not nice to refer to people as scum particularly when they are trying to do a job of work that they probably only do to feed their families and keep a roof over their head
I think the issue is around people making sacrifices (striking) for the common good. And those undermining the sacrifices made, yet then enjoying the gains (if there are any) achieved by industrial action.
But those who want to feed their families and ensure their kids are both warm and clothed are scum?
Absolute state of this thread. There is a fundamental misunderstanding on this board and, in some corners, an unwillingness to change and adapt.
I'll call it out when I see it, and like on Tuesday when in the pub with a couple of mates, I will call out any homophobic or otherwise pejorative language immediately. (And much to my surprise, I got a very sincere apology.)
Im glad to read that the next time you hear someone/group shout, for example, "chav, pikey, scum" and other pejorative language you will call it out immediately. Being consistent with all forms of abuse is essential if one is to be taken seriously. Being aggrieved at just "some" forms of abuse makes the whole woke thing utterly ludicrous.
Good luck in making the world a better place. For everyone!
... Yes? You would be absolutely correct that I'd call it out. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
NB That said, I'm not sure in what context "scum" is necessarily directed against a certain group of people (whereas the other two are classist and anti-traveller respectively). The only thing I can think of is when used similarly to scab vis-a-vis picket lines - and tbf anyone crossing a picket line is a bit... well, scummy.
Not nice to refer to people as scum particularly when they are trying to do a job of work that they probably only do to feed their families and keep a roof over their head
I think the issue is around people making sacrifices (striking) for the common good. And those undermining the sacrifices made, yet then enjoying the gains (if there are any) achieved by industrial action.
But those who want to feed their families and ensure their kids are both warm and clothed are scum?
Probably not if they refuse the gains achieved by others,
Absolute state of this thread. There is a fundamental misunderstanding on this board and, in some corners, an unwillingness to change and adapt.
I'll call it out when I see it, and like on Tuesday when in the pub with a couple of mates, I will call out any homophobic or otherwise pejorative language immediately. (And much to my surprise, I got a very sincere apology.)
Im glad to read that the next time you hear someone/group shout, for example, "chav, pikey, scum" and other pejorative language you will call it out immediately. Being consistent with all forms of abuse is essential if one is to be taken seriously. Being aggrieved at just "some" forms of abuse makes the whole woke thing utterly ludicrous.
Good luck in making the world a better place. For everyone!
... Yes? You would be absolutely correct that I'd call it out. I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
NB That said, I'm not sure in what context "scum" is necessarily directed against a certain group of people (whereas the other two are classist and anti-traveller respectively). The only thing I can think of is when used similarly to scab vis-a-vis picket lines - and tbf anyone crossing a picket line is a bit... well, scummy.
Not nice to refer to people as scum particularly when they are trying to do a job of work that they probably only do to feed their families and keep a roof over their head
I think the issue is around people making sacrifices (striking) for the common good. And those undermining the sacrifices made, yet then enjoying the gains (if there are any) achieved by industrial action.
But those who want to feed their families and ensure their kids are both warm and clothed are scum?
Probably not if they refuse the gains achieved by others,
Take the trade Union nonsense to another thread please. Sounds all too familiar to the ‘taking the soup’ nonsense you hear over here.
No one would know what they would do unless you’re in that place. And if you want to call someone scum because of it, then it makes you look ridiculous imho.
The trade union stuff pivots around the language associated, as in ‘scummy’. The thread is about language used, as in Homophobic language or other abuse. The passing reference to picket lines and union action and associated language is appropriate in my view.
The trade union stuff pivots around the language associated, as in ‘scummy’. The thread is about language used, as in Homophobic language or other abuse. The passing reference to picket lines and union action and associated language is appropriate in my view.
It’s an unnecessary tangent. And it’s unlikely to be just ‘passing’ is it? The thread title speaks for itself.
Wolverhampton Wanderers have been fined £100,000 by the Football Association for homophobic chanting by their fans in a game against Chelsea in April. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66198330
Comments
• HIV/ AIDS
• Internet shaming …… to name a few
He highlights how we have lost the ability to be curious about others and their views; Our speedy retreat to the polemic , and the labelling of others who are not like us.
I have asked you over and over again to link to, or quote parts of Marx actual work that illustrate your point(s).
You have not done so.
It looks like you have a mysterious definition of Marxist that only you hold and keep to yourself.
Yet earlier you wanted to describe what a true Christian is, and link it to the gospels.
Do you know what you’re talking about?
millwall = scum ?
I'd hate to upset their delicate sensibilities.
Agreed Mr Plum
Sounds all too familiar to the ‘taking the soup’ nonsense you hear over here.
No one would know what they would do unless you’re in that place. And if you want to call someone scum because of it, then it makes you look ridiculous imho.
The thread is about language used, as in Homophobic language or other abuse.
The passing reference to picket lines and union action and associated language is appropriate in my view.
And it’s unlikely to be just ‘passing’ is it?
The thread title speaks for itself.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66198330