He's always been a moments player, at best. He has had some good moments but they've always been too few and far between. The bigger issue is between those moments he can be (and often is) a passenger. We've needed him to be a player that can control games a bit more and he's never really been that for us. Less the Scottish Pirlo and more the League One Darren Ambrose.
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
Lol. That’s literally the whole point of contract law. Nothing to do with morals, wants or desires.
LOL all you like.
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
Because in this hypothetical we can either pay part of (most of?) his wages and have him playing in Scotland out of sight and out of mind OR we pay the entirety of his wages for him to just turn up and do a bit of training.
It's not like he's said he's downing tools and refusing to play for Charlton, he just PREFERS to be back in Scotland and most likely so would the manager. In theory he could be part of the squad next season but neither side seems to really want it.
The point I'm making is he wants to go back, fine but he should do it by negotiating a new 2 or 3 year contract with a new club at the rate they want to pay him rather than expecting us to pick up the tab for a year for his contract here.
By playing hardball you are encouraging him to do that rather than hang around hoping we will subsidise him for a year.
Anyway, one way or the other I expect he will be gone by the transfer deadline. And as it's not my money if the club are stupid enough to pick up say 80% of his wages here whilst he waltzes back off to Scotland then so be it!
Not sure why he went to Slovenia apart from reselling a fit player.
He has had more than half a year to sort a move, after being told he wasn't in our plans.
Seven weeks to TDD. Doubt any club will pay even 50% of his wages. Offer him a token sum to leave, or have him train on his own for a year. I assume his contract obliged him to do so at Sparrows Lane rather than in Scotland near his family.
Too many lazy players getting paid to freewheel (load).
I've not seen him play for us much......... and I know the wags out there will say none of us have but that aside, I do just wonder if with our new intensive training he'll get fitter and sharper........ enough to make a decent contribution to the squad if he does stick around?
I've not seen him play for us much......... and I know the wags out there will say none of us have but that aside, I do just wonder if with our new intensive training he'll get fitter and sharper........ enough to make a decent contribution to the squad if he does stick around?
Cant see it . I am sure he will want to add another midfielder and one would assume that Docherty , Berry and one of Coventry or Anderson are first choice .
It's interesting however, that any of us wouldn't really have Fraser down for his engine, but he seemed relatively unphased by the drill compared to the other players
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
Lol. That’s literally the whole point of contract law. Nothing to do with morals, wants or desires.
LOL all you like.
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
Because in this hypothetical we can either pay part of (most of?) his wages and have him playing in Scotland out of sight and out of mind OR we pay the entirety of his wages for him to just turn up and do a bit of training.
It's not like he's said he's downing tools and refusing to play for Charlton, he just PREFERS to be back in Scotland and most likely so would the manager. In theory he could be part of the squad next season but neither side seems to really want it.
The point I'm making is he wants to go back, fine but he should do it by negotiating a new 2 or 3 year contract with a new club at the rate they want to pay him rather than expecting us to pick up the tab for a year for his contract here.
By playing hardball you are encouraging him to do that rather than hang around hoping we will subsidise him for a year.
Anyway, one way or the other I expect he will be gone by the transfer deadline. And as it's not my money if the club are stupid enough to pick up say 80% of his wages here whilst he waltzes back off to Scotland then so be it!
I love it when people are happy to tell other people that they should be happy to walk away from a well paying contract. No idea what the figures involved are but I bet the contract we were happy to offer him at the time is significantly more than he could expect to get in Scotland. All well and good saying he should negotiate a two or three year deal to compensate but he can probably do that next summer anyway. Unfortunate all round but we shouldn’t be castigating Fraser for doing what’s best for him and his family’s long term security just because things haven't worked out for him at Charlton.
Will be interesting to see what happens to Fraser in the next few weeks. Will NJ move him on or utilise him? A fit and happy Fraser could be an asset as back up and we now have a group of scottish players.
Will be interesting to see what happens to Fraser in the next few weeks. Will NJ move him on or utilise him? A fit and happy Fraser could be an asset as back up and we now have a group of scottish players.
I suspect one way or another he'll be moved on. His heart really doesn't seem to be in it which for one thing probably won't help with the team spirit we are trying to create and for another will rub Jones up the wrong way.
I do agree that a motivated Fraser could possibly still see use under Jones but I don't think he aims any higher than seeing out his contract right now.
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
There’s such a thing as loyalty and it works both ways. We were happy to offer him the contract and we should be prepared to honour it. If something else can be sorted out that’s fine but I think your suggestion is frankly preposterous.
Take your point but still disagree.
He wants to go supposedly for family reasons so he can go back to Scotland with his family. Fair enough. We're doing him a favour to do this by allowing him to break his contract. Therefore there is no reason we should subsidise him over the next year.
You also talk about loyalty. What loyalty is he showing us by saying I don't want to stay for the last year of a contract that I freely entered into because I've decided I now want to move back to Scotland?
No wonder football finances are in such a mess when we allow a footballer to put his own preferences first and we subsidise them!
Where's he said that?
"I've got to respect the fact I have another year left on my Charlton contract. I respect the club and what they did for me, but I don't think it's any secret that I would like to move home on a more permanent basis. Whether something can be done or not? Hopefully."
Said in the Edinburgh Evening News.
Fair Chunes, good point. And also, he says he will respect the fact he has another year on his contract.
i.e. will dutifully accept the handsome salary that entails
"Respect" the meaning of words changes considerably over time
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
There’s such a thing as loyalty and it works both ways. We were happy to offer him the contract and we should be prepared to honour it. If something else can be sorted out that’s fine but I think your suggestion is frankly preposterous.
Take your point but still disagree.
He wants to go supposedly for family reasons so he can go back to Scotland with his family. Fair enough. We're doing him a favour to do this by allowing him to break his contract. Therefore there is no reason we should subsidise him over the next year.
You also talk about loyalty. What loyalty is he showing us by saying I don't want to stay for the last year of a contract that I freely entered into because I've decided I now want to move back to Scotland?
No wonder football finances are in such a mess when we allow a footballer to put his own preferences first and we subsidise them!
Where's he said that?
"I've got to respect the fact I have another year left on my Charlton contract. I respect the club and what they did for me, but I don't think it's any secret that I would like to move home on a more permanent basis. Whether something can be done or not? Hopefully."
Said in the Edinburgh Evening News.
Fair Chunes, good point. And also, he says he will respect the fact he has another year on his contract.
i.e. will dutifully accept the handsome salary that entails
"Respect" the meaning of words changes considerably over time
I use "respect" before I'm about to criticise somebody or something.
Think this will be one that's a late mutual termination on deadline day when all avenues have been exhausted. Just don't see him as a Jones player at all
Think this will be one that's a late mutual termination on deadline day when all avenues have been exhausted. Just don't see him as a Jones player at all
With the players coming in and planned to be coming in Jones will have to balance the books. The owners are backing Jones but will still want to keep a business eye on the finances. This may dictate whether he is kept or not rather than his pre season appearances.
I don't think he's a totally bad player but I can't think of a worse one for this team. He's the kind of player who can be dominant against weaker teams so he looks good in preseason and cup games but all that does is trick you into thinking he'll be that way against tougher opposition. The thing I think back to with Fraser is his role in Oxford's winner against us at The Valley. He just stood their passive, even stepped to the side so he wouldn't have to engage the player with the ball and you could just tell his excuse would be he was 'marking' the bloke next to him. Really annoyed me that as not every player has to be going into tackles like an angry Stuart Pearce but at least make an effort. It's even more annoying knowing AMB should have saved it as well. That waving off of responsibility though is the kind of thing Jones hates, he'd beat Fraser to death for that before the final whistle even went.
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
Lol. That’s literally the whole point of contract law. Nothing to do with morals, wants or desires.
LOL all you like.
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
Because in this hypothetical we can either pay part of (most of?) his wages and have him playing in Scotland out of sight and out of mind OR we pay the entirety of his wages for him to just turn up and do a bit of training.
It's not like he's said he's downing tools and refusing to play for Charlton, he just PREFERS to be back in Scotland and most likely so would the manager. In theory he could be part of the squad next season but neither side seems to really want it.
The point I'm making is he wants to go back, fine but he should do it by negotiating a new 2 or 3 year contract with a new club at the rate they want to pay him rather than expecting us to pick up the tab for a year for his contract here.
By playing hardball you are encouraging him to do that rather than hang around hoping we will subsidise him for a year.
Anyway, one way or the other I expect he will be gone by the transfer deadline. And as it's not my money if the club are stupid enough to pick up say 80% of his wages here whilst he waltzes back off to Scotland then so be it!
I love it when people are happy to tell other people that they should be happy to walk away from a well paying contract. No idea what the figures involved are but I bet the contract we were happy to offer him at the time is significantly more than he could expect to get in Scotland. All well and good saying he should negotiate a two or three year deal to compensate but he can probably do that next summer anyway. Unfortunate all round but we shouldn’t be castigating Fraser for doing what’s best for him and his family’s long term security just because things haven't worked out for him at Charlton.
And I love it when people can't understand the basics of a contract.
Any contract is something that is freely entered into by 2 parties. In this case, Fraser agreed to play football for us until June 2025 and we agreed to pay him until then. It is something both parties have to carry out.
If he impresses Jones in pre-season, and Jones wants him this year and Fraser is happy to stay and play, the issue of him moving doesn't arise.
However, it seems that Fraser now wants to go back to Scotland a year early and play his football elsewhere. Fine, but doing so means he is in breach of the contract he signed.
We could agree to him going and agree to pay him up for the last year of his contract or subsidise that contract at a new club for a year. I suspect that is what we will do but we are under absolutely no legal obligation to do it. And doing so, is throwing money away.
Or we can hold him to the last year of his contract. That way he has to stay whether he wants or not. Maybe he would stay for the money, maybe not. Maybe going home is absolutely vital to him. If that is the case, then he could ask the club to break the contract which no doubt we would be happy to do.
In business, people break contracts all the time. But in my experience when they do so they don't get compensated as well when they go off to work for another firm.
Anyway, clearly this is one thing we are not going to agree on so let's just see how this plays out.
Fraser wants to go back to Scotland. It appears we want to let him go but hold his contract for another year.
I never understand why in such circumstances we are obliged to pay his wages (or a large portion of them.)
Why can't we just say, ok we'll cancel your contract and you're free to find yourself another club but we aren't going to pay any of your wages.
If he says no, then say you can stay down here for the next year and train with the youth team or by himself.
Not nice I know but we are doing him a favour by letting him go for nothing and we should make him aware of that.
Lol. That’s literally the whole point of contract law. Nothing to do with morals, wants or desires.
LOL all you like.
I'm not saying we don't pay him if he decides to stay - never said that and know we can't do that.
Just saying if he decides to stay, and Jones doesn't want him in the squad, then he trains down here by himself.
All you guys who go on about how we have to honour his contract - which we do - need to remember he has to honour his side of it as well, which is to play for us for another season. If he doesn't want to honour his side of the deal for whatever reason - in this case because he wants to go back to Scotland- then why on earth do we have to subsidise his wages if he does move back on loan ?
Because in this hypothetical we can either pay part of (most of?) his wages and have him playing in Scotland out of sight and out of mind OR we pay the entirety of his wages for him to just turn up and do a bit of training.
It's not like he's said he's downing tools and refusing to play for Charlton, he just PREFERS to be back in Scotland and most likely so would the manager. In theory he could be part of the squad next season but neither side seems to really want it.
The point I'm making is he wants to go back, fine but he should do it by negotiating a new 2 or 3 year contract with a new club at the rate they want to pay him rather than expecting us to pick up the tab for a year for his contract here.
By playing hardball you are encouraging him to do that rather than hang around hoping we will subsidise him for a year.
Anyway, one way or the other I expect he will be gone by the transfer deadline. And as it's not my money if the club are stupid enough to pick up say 80% of his wages here whilst he waltzes back off to Scotland then so be it!
I love it when people are happy to tell other people that they should be happy to walk away from a well paying contract. No idea what the figures involved are but I bet the contract we were happy to offer him at the time is significantly more than he could expect to get in Scotland. All well and good saying he should negotiate a two or three year deal to compensate but he can probably do that next summer anyway. Unfortunate all round but we shouldn’t be castigating Fraser for doing what’s best for him and his family’s long term security just because things haven't worked out for him at Charlton.
And I love it when people can't understand the basics of a contract.
Any contract is something that is freely entered into by 2 parties. In this case, Fraser agreed to play football for us until June 2025 and we agreed to pay him until then. It is something both parties have to carry out.
If he impresses Jones in pre-season, and Jones wants him this year and Fraser is happy to stay and play, the issue of him moving doesn't arise.
However, it seems that Fraser now wants to go back to Scotland a year early and play his football elsewhere. Fine, but doing so means he is in breach of the contract he signed.
We could agree to him going and agree to pay him up for the last year of his contract or subsidise that contract at a new club for a year. I suspect that is what we will do but we are under absolutely no legal obligation to do it. And doing so, is throwing money away.
Or we can hold him to the last year of his contract. That way he has to stay whether he wants or not. Maybe he would stay for the money, maybe not. Maybe going home is absolutely vital to him. If that is the case, then he could ask the club to break the contract which no doubt we would be happy to do.
In business, people break contracts all the time. But in my experience when they do so they don't get compensated as well when they go off to work for another firm.
Anyway, clearly this is one thing we are not going to agree on so let's just see how this plays out.
Please no one hire Fortune82 as their contact attorney. “Wanting” to leave is not a breach of contract. Is there a clause in a players contract to say they have to want to be there. If that was a standard clause in employment contacts then half the workforce would be in violation because they hate their job/employer etc.
I've not seen him play for us much......... and I know the wags out there will say none of us have but that aside, I do just wonder if with our new intensive training he'll get fitter and sharper........ enough to make a decent contribution to the squad if he does stick around?
Cant see it . I am sure he will want to add another midfielder and one would assume that Docherty , Berry and one of Coventry or Anderson are first choice .
I do tend to agree with you, I do. But I can't help wondering if with a rocket up his rear end and if he really really thinks he has a point to prove....... can he become a silk purse? Time will tell I guess.
Please no one hire Fortune82 as their contact attorney. “Wanting” to leave is not a breach of contract. Is there a clause in a players contract to say they have to want to be there. If that was a standard clause in employment contacts then half the workforce would be in violation because they hate their job/employer etc.
Fair point.
Point i was trying to make is he can't just rock up somewhere else if he feels like it without the club's consent.
He won't be here after the window closes. Where he goes and how he goes is another matter but in my opinion it will involve us helping him financially so that a move elsewhere stacks up financially for his new club and for Fraser himself. We will also save a bit on his wages but it won't be a significant saving in my opinion.
Please no one hire Fortune82 as their contact attorney. “Wanting” to leave is not a breach of contract. Is there a clause in a players contract to say they have to want to be there. If that was a standard clause in employment contacts then half the workforce would be in violation because they hate their job/employer etc.
Fair point.
Point i was trying to make is he can't just rock up somewhere else if he feels like it without the club's consent.
No. Obviously. Which is probably exactly why he hasn't done that or even expressed an intention to.
Good riddance. What a let down he was. Scored a few goals one season but has never really looked close to good enough. Finally getting down to the last of the Sandgaard shite.
Comments
By playing hardball you are encouraging him to do that rather than hang around hoping we will subsidise him for a year.
Anyway, one way or the other I expect he will be gone by the transfer deadline. And as it's not my money if the club are stupid enough to pick up say 80% of his wages here whilst he waltzes back off to Scotland then so be it!
He has had more than half a year to sort a move, after being told he wasn't in our plans.
Seven weeks to TDD. Doubt any club will pay even 50% of his wages. Offer him a token sum to leave, or have him train on his own for a year. I assume his contract obliged him to do so at Sparrows Lane rather than in Scotland near his family.
Too many lazy players getting paid to freewheel (load).
I do agree that a motivated Fraser could possibly still see use under Jones but I don't think he aims any higher than seeing out his contract right now.
Can't wait to be rid of him.
"Respect" the meaning of words changes considerably over time
Any contract is something that is freely entered into by 2 parties. In this case, Fraser agreed to play football for us until June 2025 and we agreed to pay him until then. It is something both parties have to carry out.
If he impresses Jones in pre-season, and Jones wants him this year and Fraser is happy to stay and play, the issue of him moving doesn't arise.
However, it seems that Fraser now wants to go back to Scotland a year early and play his football elsewhere. Fine, but doing so means he is in breach of the contract he signed.
We could agree to him going and agree to pay him up for the last year of his contract or subsidise that contract at a new club for a year. I suspect that is what we will do but we are under absolutely no legal obligation to do it. And doing so, is throwing money away.
Or we can hold him to the last year of his contract. That way he has to stay whether he wants or not. Maybe he would stay for the money, maybe not. Maybe going home is absolutely vital to him. If that is the case, then he could ask the club to break the contract which no doubt we would be happy to do.
In business, people break contracts all the time. But in my experience when they do so they don't get compensated as well when they go off to work for another firm.
Anyway, clearly this is one thing we are not going to agree on so let's just see how this plays out.
It is this registration that is transfered when a player moves
Registration doesn't exist in other conventional industries.
Fraser hasn't broken his contract, he has never, to the best of our knowledge, refused to play or not turned up for training.
He might not have played as well as we want and he wants to move to Scotland but neither is a crime or breaking a contract.
Still think he'll move on this summer, on loan or permantly.
Point i was trying to make is he can't just rock up somewhere else if he feels like it without the club's consent.
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/scott-fraser-leaves-mutual-consent?fbclid=IwY2xjawE_tBZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHUwFt-NDjDyaGd6-pyPxxi8odc8_pYUIveTYOor2QDIOgEYe9nC9HMw0oA_aem_DHSHZSA3p8OUfEgSCRTWwQ
Gone