The torches don’t bother me but I can understand why some fans want to distance themselves from the act and make it clear that they don’t condone it. Otherwise these things go round social media and it ends up looking like it was done and enjoyed by all fans.
I just don't 'get' it. Probably the same way I never got the point of a Mexican wave. Maybe I'm just a boring old fart who just wants to watch the game and vent off by shouting and singing a couple of songs. What was particularly ironic about the covered end's reaction on Saturday was that I am pretty sure I saw the whole thing start off with some torches in the upper tier....
The torches don’t bother me but I can understand why some fans want to distance themselves from the act and make it clear that they don’t condone it. Otherwise these things go round social media and it ends up looking like it was done and enjoyed by all fans.
By 'all fans' do you mean all 60 or so kids ?
Some people think the drummers are dicks, some people think us in the NU making a noise are dicks, some people think those sat on hands in the west are dicks.
Basically, you do you as someone will hate it and someone else will approve.
Maybe the torches are some kind of version of empowerment and agency. I suppose there are some who attend football who are motionless and silent throughout, but a lot of people want to feel involved and influential (and critical of course), they jump around, have flags, wear colours, chant, and now illuminating the arena is another way of actively taking part. I much prefer the lights compared to those fecking vuvuzela’s.
The increase in aggro around football since the return of fans would make a good dissertation subject for someone’s psychology degree. I would have assumed a global pandemic killing millions would have provided some perspective and actually reduced some of the silliness.
Hopefully it calms down soon.
This weekend a Leicester fan attacked a Forest player after they scored. A Rotherham fan kicked the ball before an Accrington player could take the penalty then attacked him. The comments on that instagram link are disgraceful.
What's going on?
It amazes me that anyone is surprised.
People have had their lives turned upside down these last two years and they feel that it was unnecessary. They are seething with anger. You may not feel that way but many do.
If we discuss online why many feel that way and you don't, it doesn't address the issue. I once hoped that on a forum like this we could discuss issues of the day and weigh things up, but everyone seems entrenched in their camp.
Over the last two years we've tackled the problem by the philosophy of one camp.
The media won't entertain any philosophical debate on anything, and if there's any dissent it gets shouted down. Unfortunately, it's always easy to find a ridiculous section of the group who think differently, diffuse that around the media, get those with most screen time to repeat the mantra so that everyone believes it, and make the in-way of thinking seem right, and make any other way of thinking seem wrong by labelling it 'selfish', 'rascist' 'phobic' etc
This goes for COVID, BLM, LGBTQism and all the other nonsense.
The other camp are fed up and angry. The young working class with no other solution manifest this anger in violence but there are thousands of others who feel this way and do nothing (yet?). It could end in civil war imo.
To use a well worn generic chant from the old days
"What a load of rubbish"
I do love a reference to "It could end in civil war". Being reading/hearing that since the 1970s and it was probably around before then but I was too young.
Wishful thinking by wannabe soldiers who watched too many war films and read too much nonsense from other idiots on the internet.
Ask your dickhead CEO who the sides will be in this war and what his role will be?
It's a fair question at the end, but maybe you shouldn't call my opinions 'rubbish' or call my student a dickhead.
It's like I said in my post - it's impossible to discuss these matters sensibly on here.
You're referring to a 'dickhead CEO' who has on average 3/40 employees off work (to satisfy a protocol) for a whole week every week despite them not actually being sick. He's losing company time and money over it and he's sick of it
It's absurd that I get a reaction like that because people were questioning why there's more violence and I was giving an answer, which is one answer more than any of you who are mocking me have done.
So he's got a high absentee rate.
And because of that there is going to be a civil war. Yes, based on what you say, he's a dickhead.
As I asked and the question goes to you too. Who is this civil war going to be between and what side are YOU going to be on? What role will you play?
I said it was rubbish because it was rubbish. Badly thought out, incoherent, full of clichés and some complete falsehoods.
The civil war comment at the end was an afterthought that resulted from a conversation I'd had only hours earlier. I'd agree with you that it's over dramatic and really I shouldn't have put imo at the end of that sentence. Besides, I wasn't saying that the absenteeism itself only would result in civil unrest, it's just an example of the nonsense of the protocol.
Where are these falsehoods you refer to? When I refer to a lack of philosophical debate, I can go right back to March 2020. When was it discussed how high the crude mortality rate has to be to make the restrictions necessary? It never was. Yet the rate has only ever gone back to pre-2002 levels. @stonemuse wondered at my age. I was 30 in 2002 so I'd lived at that point (for three fifths of my life so far) in a society with a lower crude mortality rate but with no restrictions. Then one will argue that the health service was saturated. This argument works if the restrictions are short-term but not if they continue for a year or more because although people are dying of covid, they are also dying less of other causes. The crude mortality rate is lower now than in the first half of my life, so why do we still have restrictions? Why are we so obsessed with testing and tracing this virus still in its now much weakened variant strain? I'm just so fed up with testing the children and their education and leisure activities being disrupted, not because they are anyone necessarily has the virus but because there is a 'contact' with someone who has it, who in addition is ill for just one day anyway. If anything's nonsense it's this
@JamesSeed. It's not got anything to with being on the internet too long. I say what I say based on my personal experience and my feelings.
@Baldybonce. I made no mention of the vaccine. I've had three jabs and I have to prove so even to be allowed access to the library to borrow books.
Maybe I need to re-iterate on my posts that I live in France. Perhaps things are different where you all are in the UK. Perhaps you don't get fined for not wearing a mask outdoors, you don't lose money for lost business, don't still have sports events constantly cancelled, don't have a pass that you have to show to get into bars, restaurants, sports clubs. I don't know really how it is now in the UK but when I came back in September I felt liberated in comparison.
What I do know is that violence at football on the UK is on the increase and that the UK has had lots of restrictions during 20-21. The whole point of my post was as an explanation of the violence which still no-one else has given an alternative to although a sensible reply was made by @RodneyCharltonTrotta Of course the trouble in the 70s and 80s could have been made due to anger and frustration on other matters that are unrelated to those causing today's violence. I'm just stating that from my point of view, it seems obvious why today violence is increasing, and I posted this initially because people were asking why.
The increase in aggro around football since the return of fans would make a good dissertation subject for someone’s psychology degree. I would have assumed a global pandemic killing millions would have provided some perspective and actually reduced some of the silliness.
Hopefully it calms down soon.
This weekend a Leicester fan attacked a Forest player after they scored. A Rotherham fan kicked the ball before an Accrington player could take the penalty then attacked him. The comments on that instagram link are disgraceful.
What's going on?
It amazes me that anyone is surprised.
People have had their lives turned upside down these last two years and they feel that it was unnecessary. They are seething with anger. You may not feel that way but many do.
If we discuss online why many feel that way and you don't, it doesn't address the issue. I once hoped that on a forum like this we could discuss issues of the day and weigh things up, but everyone seems entrenched in their camp.
Over the last two years we've tackled the problem by the philosophy of one camp.
The media won't entertain any philosophical debate on anything, and if there's any dissent it gets shouted down. Unfortunately, it's always easy to find a ridiculous section of the group who think differently, diffuse that around the media, get those with most screen time to repeat the mantra so that everyone believes it, and make the in-way of thinking seem right, and make any other way of thinking seem wrong by labelling it 'selfish', 'rascist' 'phobic' etc
This goes for COVID, BLM, LGBTQism and all the other nonsense.
The other camp are fed up and angry. The young working class with no other solution manifest this anger in violence but there are thousands of others who feel this way and do nothing (yet?). It could end in civil war imo.
3 lols. You may laugh but the civil war bit at the end only came to me to write because my student said that to me earlier. He went way off topic but I let him carry on. He was complaining about how the media simplify everything too much, and how he has to explain so much to his employees to overcome that. This is a CEO of a company with about 40 employees. I was surprised when he said he thinks that they'll be a civil war. It's not really me saying that to be honest but I can't say that I think he's too far off the mark either.
I don't know if the 3 people clicking on lol are the same as the 2 saying that they don't understand the violence, but if so therein lies the problem.
14 lol's now. As for Civil War, you do live in France and they riot at the drop of a hat.
The increase in aggro around football since the return of fans would make a good dissertation subject for someone’s psychology degree. I would have assumed a global pandemic killing millions would have provided some perspective and actually reduced some of the silliness.
Hopefully it calms down soon.
This weekend a Leicester fan attacked a Forest player after they scored. A Rotherham fan kicked the ball before an Accrington player could take the penalty then attacked him. The comments on that instagram link are disgraceful.
What's going on?
It amazes me that anyone is surprised.
People have had their lives turned upside down these last two years and they feel that it was unnecessary. They are seething with anger. You may not feel that way but many do.
If we discuss online why many feel that way and you don't, it doesn't address the issue. I once hoped that on a forum like this we could discuss issues of the day and weigh things up, but everyone seems entrenched in their camp.
Over the last two years we've tackled the problem by the philosophy of one camp.
The media won't entertain any philosophical debate on anything, and if there's any dissent it gets shouted down. Unfortunately, it's always easy to find a ridiculous section of the group who think differently, diffuse that around the media, get those with most screen time to repeat the mantra so that everyone believes it, and make the in-way of thinking seem right, and make any other way of thinking seem wrong by labelling it 'selfish', 'rascist' 'phobic' etc
This goes for COVID, BLM, LGBTQism and all the other nonsense.
The other camp are fed up and angry. The young working class with no other solution manifest this anger in violence but there are thousands of others who feel this way and do nothing (yet?). It could end in civil war imo.
3 lols. You may laugh but the civil war bit at the end only came to me to write because my student said that to me earlier. He went way off topic but I let him carry on. He was complaining about how the media simplify everything too much, and how he has to explain so much to his employees to overcome that. This is a CEO of a company with about 40 employees. I was surprised when he said he thinks that they'll be a civil war. It's not really me saying that to be honest but I can't say that I think he's too far off the mark either.
I don't know if the 3 people clicking on lol are the same as the 2 saying that they don't understand the violence, but if so therein lies the problem.
14 lol's now. As for Civil War, you do live in France and they riot at the drop of a hat.
The torches don’t bother me but I can understand why some fans want to distance themselves from the act and make it clear that they don’t condone it. Otherwise these things go round social media and it ends up looking like it was done and enjoyed by all fans.
By 'all fans' do you mean all 60 or so kids ?
Some people think the drummers are dicks, some people think us in the NU making a noise are dicks, some people think those sat on hands in the west are dicks.
Basically, you do you as someone will hate it and someone else will approve.
No, I mean all fans. As that’s how things generally work on social media.
For the life of me, I can't follow what's going on in this thread.
It's quite simple really. The 4 Charlton fans at London bridge were attacked by 40 Wimbledon fans because the Wimbledon fans thought they were too old to be shining the torches on thier phones.
Comments
Some people think the drummers are dicks, some people think us in the NU making a noise are dicks, some people think those sat on hands in the west are dicks.
Basically, you do you as someone will hate it and someone else will approve.
I suppose there are some who attend football who are motionless and silent throughout, but a lot of people want to feel involved and influential (and critical of course), they jump around, have flags, wear colours, chant, and now illuminating the arena is another way of actively taking part.
I much prefer the lights compared to those fecking vuvuzela’s.
Where are these falsehoods you refer to? When I refer to a lack of philosophical debate, I can go right back to March 2020. When was it discussed how high the crude mortality rate has to be to make the restrictions necessary? It never was. Yet the rate has only ever gone back to pre-2002 levels. @stonemuse wondered at my age. I was 30 in 2002 so I'd lived at that point (for three fifths of my life so far) in a society with a lower crude mortality rate but with no restrictions. Then one will argue that the health service was saturated. This argument works if the restrictions are short-term but not if they continue for a year or more because although people are dying of covid, they are also dying less of other causes. The crude mortality rate is lower now than in the first half of my life, so why do we still have restrictions? Why are we so obsessed with testing and tracing this virus still in its now much weakened variant strain? I'm just so fed up with testing the children and their education and leisure activities being disrupted, not because they are anyone necessarily has the virus but because there is a 'contact' with someone who has it, who in addition is ill for just one day anyway. If anything's nonsense it's this
@JamesSeed. It's not got anything to with being on the internet too long. I say what I say based on my personal experience and my feelings.
@Baldybonce. I made no mention of the vaccine. I've had three jabs and I have to prove so even to be allowed access to the library to borrow books.
Maybe I need to re-iterate on my posts that I live in France. Perhaps things are different where you all are in the UK. Perhaps you don't get fined for not wearing a mask outdoors, you don't lose money for lost business, don't still have sports events constantly cancelled, don't have a pass that you have to show to get into bars, restaurants, sports clubs. I don't know really how it is now in the UK but when I came back in September I felt liberated in comparison.
What I do know is that violence at football on the UK is on the increase and that the UK has had lots of restrictions during 20-21.
The whole point of my post was as an explanation of the violence which still no-one else has given an alternative to although a sensible reply was made by @RodneyCharltonTrotta
Of course the trouble in the 70s and 80s could have been made due to anger and frustration on other matters that are unrelated to those causing today's violence. I'm just stating that from my point of view, it seems obvious why today violence is increasing, and I posted this initially because people were asking why.
Bizarre
The 4 Charlton fans at London bridge were attacked by 40 Wimbledon fans because the Wimbledon fans thought they were too old to be shining the torches on thier phones.
Because you have all the grace of a reversing dump truck without any tyres on.’