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Jayden Stockley & Conor Washington - the underrated partnership

edited March 2022 in General Charlton
- In the 13 games they've both started this season, we have picked up 26 points. That's exactly two points per game.
- In the 26 games that one or neither have started, we have picked up 23 points for 0.88 points per game.

I posted these numbers the match thread earlier today without much context so wanted to look at the league positions of our opponents from these games. The assumption seemed to be that the reason for getting more points when Jayden and Conor are playing is more to do with the quality of opponent, rather than their contributions on the pitch. I investigated that in the second post of this thread, below.

But before that, the easiest way to gauge strength of opponents is league position. And league positions are often false during the first month or so. I have discounted the first six games so we're able to get a better picture. It is an arbitrary cut off but it has to be somewhere. The removed games are:
Sheff Wed (H) - both played
Oxford (A) - both played
MK Dons (A) - both played
Wigan (H) - only Stockley
Crewe (H) - both played
Cheltenham (H) - only Stockley
(New ppg figures without these matches are 2.44ppg with both playing and 0.96ppg with at least one missing.)




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Comments

  • edited March 2022
    Matches (excluding the first half dozen) where both played:
    Wycombe (A) L 9th
    Sunderland (A) W 2nd
    Doncaster (H) W 23rd
    Rotherham (H) D 4th
    Ipswich (H) W 11th
    Cambridge (H) W 15th
    Gillingham (H) W 21st
    Burton (H) W 14th
    Doncaster (A) W 24th
    P9 W7 D1 L1 GF15 GA3 PTS22
    Average league position of opponent = 14th

    Matches (excluding the first half dozen) where one or neither played:
    Gillingham (A) D 20th
    Portsmouth (H) D 12th
    Bolton (H) L 9th
    Fleetwood (A) W 20th
    Lincoln (A) L 17th
    Accrington (H) L 11th
    Burton (A) W 12th
    Plymouth (H) W 1st
    Morecambe (A) D 18th
    Shrewsbury (A) L 21st
    Plymouth (A) L 6th
    Wycombe (H) L 6th
    Crewe (A) L 23rd
    Cheltenham (A) D 13th
    Fleetwood (H) W 19th
    Portsmouth (A) W 11th
    Wimbledon (H) W 20th
    Bolton (A) L 10th
    Wigan (A) L 2nd
    Oxford (H) L 7th
    MK Dons (H) L 3rd
    Sheff Wed (A) L 8th
    Sunderland (H) D 6th
    Accrington (A) L 12th

    P24 W6 D5 L13 GF26 GA38 PTS23
    Average league position of opponents: 12th
  • edited March 2022
    They keep the opposition defenders occupied. Without S & W playing you can see the backs getting forward more, as their replacements (Burstowe etc) are always more lightweight, and easier to manage. 
  • edited March 2022
    There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that we are a better team this season with Stockley and Washington in it. The stats above prove what is already patently obvious. A significant factor in that scenario though is that our back up to both is lamentably bad to the point of non existent. Davison, Leko and Burstow are either not ready, not good enough or not here!   Chuks is a class act but unreliable. The stats are undoubtedly skewed as we are comparing the valuable contributions of Stockley and Washington against effectively bugger all. 

    However, the issue for me is whether Stockley and Washington are capable of leading a promotion winning side/plying at championship level. From what I have seen (and I admit my viewing is limited to TV/streaming) I don’t believe that they are. Stockley has already failed at championship level with Preston and I think the days of the “big lump” centre forward are over. Washington is a good honest trier whose career history has nothing to suggest that he is anything other than a decent league 1 player. I’d certainly keep both and they will play a part next season. But if we’re going to storm the league they need to be third and fourth choice. 
  • edited March 2022
    se9addick said:
    I think Washington is one of, if not the most, important player in our squad. We look a much better team when he plays. Stockley isn’t amazing, but it’s League One and he’s a solid centre forward with a better than 1/3 goal scoring record & helps out defensively. With those two + Chuks, I would actually prefer we focused squad building on other parts of the team this summer. Getting better than those three is going to be difficult and cost a significant chunk of our budget (strikers = large premium). We could get more for our money, and make greater overall improvement, spending our money on other positions.

    I think people were frustrated that we didn’t put away four or five of our chances yesterday. But no-one was bemoaning Washington’s finish last Saturday. Knee jerk, extreme, reactions are just the way it is I suppose but grown men calling a stroke force that have scored in consecutive matches “Missington” and “Donkley” (and god knows what else on social media) is pathetic. 
    Problem is if you have Chuks in your team, he can’t be relied to offer consistent cover if one of your main strikers is out injured or suspended for a period of time. Which came back to bite us in the ass this season already.

    I’d be happy to have Stockley and Washington (if he resigns) as my first choice pairing next year - I think together they are good enough to get us out this league. But at the very least we need to be buying one more quality striker to be pushing them, so Chuks can stay as 4th choice/impact sub.
  • We need a Stockton or similar in the mix too
  • I also think we are better playing the system we do with CBT in the team.  If he could stay fit as well that would be nice.
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  • They both do what they do pretty well, but they lack the ruthless edge you need for a promotion winning strike-force, in my opinion. I actually think Washington brings us more in this formation, because Stockley's presence encourages us to hit long balls (although that might be corrected by having defenders and midfield who are braver on the ball.) It is frustrating though, because as much as it pains to say it, Taylor was actually more effective as a target man than Stockley, he would almost always be able to pin his man, and allow a lotfted ball to be controlled with his outstretched leg, either turning his man or laying it off. OR remember back to how many accurate flick-ons Yann would win, his Prem-level first time layoffs into space, or just bringing the ball down. When Stockley has two men on him we rarely see hold-up or an accurate flick, and quite often a foul. He's probably most valuable in defending set pieces, hence our better defensive record when he's on the pitch. I like them both as people and they would make very good squad options but I really think we need a Yann/BWP or a Taylor/Grant ruthless, mobile combo to aim for top two. Whether our recruitment can get them, or is even aiming to is another thing.
  • se9addick said:
    I think Washington is one of, if not the most, important player in our squad. We look a much better team when he plays. Stockley isn’t amazing, but it’s League One and he’s a solid centre forward with a better than 1/3 goal scoring record & helps out defensively. With those two + Chuks, I would actually prefer we focused squad building on other parts of the team this summer. Getting better than those three is going to be difficult and cost a significant chunk of our budget (strikers = large premium). We could get more for our money, and make greater overall improvement, spending our money on other positions.

    I think people were frustrated yesterday that we didn’t put away four or five of our chances, as was I. But no-one was bemoaning Washington’s finishing last Saturday. Knee jerk, extreme, reactions are just the way it is I suppose but grown men calling a strike force that have scored in consecutive matches “Missington” and “Donkley” (and god knows what else on social media) is pathetic. 
    Has anyone actually used those nicknames? 


  • If you exclude all the games we have lost, and drawn, we average 3 points a game.  Everything is brilliant. :wink:

    I don't think anyone would suggest we aren't a better team with them both in it.  The fact that we have a manager that will play two up front, come rain or shine, even if he has no strikers, makes it near criminal that Washington is entering the final few months of his contract.

    In that case and when you consider Aneke's "issues" we probably need 5 strikers.  Which means we need two more.  I don't think it's unrealistic to want at least one that's better than what we have.  That's very different to underrating or not rating them or their partnership.

    One other stat, that actually I think says more about the rest of the team is we have won one game all season that neither Stockley nor Aneke has started. 
  • The Washington chance to goal ratio chat has been done to death, it's not just yesterday.

    There wasn't a single comment calling him shit yesterday, just people saying we needed a more clinical strike partnership. Can't believe how many people have got their backs up over it.
  • Underrated but not quite a promotion partnership in my view , although I guess the stats say that if they played every game, it might be .  In my view , we need to sign a number one striker that could play well with either of them 
  • edited March 2022
    cfgs said:
    We also need more goals from elsewhere in the team, with our system a midfielder should be scoring double figures or close to it.
    Hopefully that can be someone like Scott Fraser, but we need more options in that area.

    Ideally at the moment think our team for next season should be along the lines of

    X
    X - Lavelle - X
    X - Dobson - X - Blackett-Taylor
    Fraser
    Washington - Stockley

    Subs: X - Clare - X - X - Gilbey - Aneke - X

    I've left the Goalkeepers blanks as dont think MacGillivray should be a starter for us next term - Also have my doubts as to whether Maynard-Brewer will get given the No.1 shirt.

    Would potentially keep Jaiyesimi around as a squad player, but a bit like Kirk I dont think he fully suits the system like Blackett-Taylor does. Ironically he's a better defender than he is going forward as slows the game down too much. Equally then leaves us with about 5-6 players that need to be brought in on perm, and then the five loans - As per Sandgaard's quotes
  • cfgs said:
    We also need more goals from elsewhere in the team, with our system a midfielder should be scoring double figures or close to it.
    Hopefully that can be someone like Scott Fraser, but we need more options in that area.

    Ideally at the moment think our team for next season should be along the lines of

    X
    X - Lavelle - X
    X - Dobson - X - Blackett-Taylor
    Fraser
    Washington - Stockley

    Subs: X - Clare - X - X - Gilbey - Aneke - X

    I've left the Goalkeepers blanks as dont think MacGillivray should be a starter for us next term - Also have my doubts as to whether Maynard-Brewer will get given the No.1 shirt.
    Not sure Lavelle is quite a number 1 there .  Maybe on the right of the three 
  • Personally I think Shockley & Washington are ideal for a L1 promotion chasing team, our issue is goals from the rest of the team and a defence that is rock solid. Those 2 when playing together are a real threat. 

    With both those 2 in the team we have a classic big lad and a constant nippy nuisance, if we had more attacking options from our midfield and wing backs/full backs, formation dependant,  we will easily be top 6 next season. Chip in with a few goals more set piece goals 4 points per 2 games very achievable. 

    Of course we need though those players and a bench who can step up, will we be able to off load & recruit?
  • wmcf123 said:
    cfgs said:
    We also need more goals from elsewhere in the team, with our system a midfielder should be scoring double figures or close to it.
    Hopefully that can be someone like Scott Fraser, but we need more options in that area.

    Ideally at the moment think our team for next season should be along the lines of

    X
    X - Lavelle - X
    X - Dobson - X - Blackett-Taylor
    Fraser
    Washington - Stockley

    Subs: X - Clare - X - X - Gilbey - Aneke - X

    I've left the Goalkeepers blanks as dont think MacGillivray should be a starter for us next term - Also have my doubts as to whether Maynard-Brewer will get given the No.1 shirt.
    Not sure Lavelle is quite a number 1 there .  Maybe on the right of the three 
    I'd almost like to see a right-footed upgrade on Clare, and a left-footed version of him. Similar to yesterday (and against Portsmouth), I like how the system allows one of the Centre-Backs to maraud forwards.

    Playing Lavelle in the centre allows him to stay back as a sweeper almost. Whether we can find the upgrade on Clare, and a left-footed version at this level though, remains to be seem
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  • Croydon said:
    The Washington chance to goal ratio chat has been done to death, it's not just yesterday.

    There wasn't a single comment calling him shit yesterday, just people saying we needed a more clinical strike partnership. Can't believe how many people have got their backs up over it.
    His finishing is so frustrating. But that's why he is a league 1 player. Stockley missed a couple that he should have put away yesterday, again, that's why he is also league 1. 

    Crosses in from both flanks and I can see both getting 20 next year but if we do get to the championship, we need to be ruthless and move them both on.
  • Croydon said:
    se9addick said:
    I think Washington is one of, if not the most, important player in our squad. We look a much better team when he plays. Stockley isn’t amazing, but it’s League One and he’s a solid centre forward with a better than 1/3 goal scoring record & helps out defensively. With those two + Chuks, I would actually prefer we focused squad building on other parts of the team this summer. Getting better than those three is going to be difficult and cost a significant chunk of our budget (strikers = large premium). We could get more for our money, and make greater overall improvement, spending our money on other positions.

    I think people were frustrated yesterday that we didn’t put away four or five of our chances, as was I. But no-one was bemoaning Washington’s finishing last Saturday. Knee jerk, extreme, reactions are just the way it is I suppose but grown men calling a strike force that have scored in consecutive matches “Missington” and “Donkley” (and god knows what else on social media) is pathetic. 
    Has anyone actually used those nicknames? 


    Oh yes…
  • Burstow is leaving at the end of the season 
    Davison will probably be released or go on loan somewhere. 
    So whatever happens we need to bring in another striker. 
    I would try and get Stockton if I had a choice. 
  • Think some of the criticism is very harsh. Washington's 1 on 1 is a great example... which was a chance he made himself, beat off the defender, and drew a good save from the keeper. The fact is we create chances, have an out ball, have greater presence in the box when these 2 are playing. The other reason to discount the first few games is Washington was playing out left, which is a complete waste. I think these 2 are good enough for a promotion push... it's the rest that I worry about, especially the back 6. Also the link player between Dobson and Fraser, which I'm hoping JFC can fill. As many have said, it's also having good alternatives at a similar level. 

    They had an off day in front of goal yesterday and both should've scored more. But their overall play was good yesterday. 
  • They are not perfect but they are decent strikers at the high end of the level we are in. Any team that hasn't got that, and we didn't with Stockley, Washington and Aneke injured, is going to struggle to score goals which impacts on the rest of the side. A very important thing we need to do for next season is ensure there is sufficient depth to our attacking options. Not the only thing but very high up on the priority list.
  • edited March 2022
    I still think we should try to do better than Washington. He should absolutely get a new contract, he brings a lot to the squad, but yesterday's game was a good demonstration - he needs too many good chances to score. It puts pressure on the defence. Doncaster could easily have nicked one at the end and turned what should have been a comfortable win into a disappointing draw. 

    We want to be storming out of this division with a top class pairing. Stockley + someone with the X Factor would be brilliant. If we can't find better then fair enough, but we should be trying. 
  • edited March 2022
    Scoham said:
    We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).

    We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.

    Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.

    I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.

    At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.

    Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.


    20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion. 

    Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been. 

    If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal. 
  • cfgs said:
    We also need more goals from elsewhere in the team, with our system a midfielder should be scoring double figures or close to it.
    Lost count at the amount of times our midfield could have unleashed a shot from outside of the box but opted.to play it wide instead yesterday. Until we fix that then that problem will still exist. 
  • cafc999 said:
    cfgs said:
    We also need more goals from elsewhere in the team, with our system a midfielder should be scoring double figures or close to it.
    Lost count at the amount of times our midfield could have unleashed a shot from outside of the box but opted.to play it wide instead yesterday. Until we fix that then that problem will still exist. 
    Or they could play it wide and then get in the box to try and get on the end of the cross/cut back.
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