if if these two are our 1st choice starters next season, I will say right now we will not go up. Probably not even challenge. Too many chances are missed.
Bad day at the office for both of them at the same time and that’s what killed us. Both could’ve had two or three goals.
They could’ve had 12 goals between them in the last 2 matches, they scored 2. It’s been a extreme in the last 2 matches but they both miss too many good chances.
That last one today from Washington epitomizes it. It wasn’t a sitter, but it wasn’t a hard chance either. He should have scored and saved a point. Imagine that chance is falling to us in the final minutes of a play-off final - are you praying it’s falling to Washington or Stockley or are you thinking it doesn’t really matter as you don’t have absolute faith in either of them?
I want better, but a point to counter this stuff about their poor finishing is BWP. He missed shitloads of chances but was a good enough promotion striker with a good side around him. Neither of these lads are ever gonna be Lyle Taylor who was exceptional at this level, but I think they can be as good as bwp.
I'd argue that Washington is the more influential overall of the two, and is versatile enough to be able to compliment other types of strikers. So if we started with just one of them next season, I'd want it to be him. Unfortunately, Stockley is the one with a deal next season, and I get the impression that we'll pin our hopes on him
If we were promoted with Stockley and Washington then we would look at replacing Washington pretty quick due to his age, two players in that position please with one of those being Davison, maybe.
I want better, but a point to counter this stuff about their poor finishing is BWP. He missed shitloads of chances but was a good enough promotion striker with a good side around him. Neither of these lads are ever gonna be Lyle Taylor who was exceptional at this level, but I think they can be as good as bwp.
that said, I’d still vote for a full refresh !
The Taylor comparison in that season was Kermorgant. He was the striker with that bit extra and the one who would often come up trumps at key moments even though he wasn’t the one who scored the most goals. It was partly because we had a player like Yann that meant BWP got so many chances. That’s the point - there’s probably room for one but not both. If we have to go with both next season it’ll be far from the worst pairing in the league but the club do need to be trying to bring in an upgrade if at all possible (obviously it’s easier said than done).
There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that we are a better team this season with Stockley and Washington in it. The stats above prove what is already patently obvious. A significant factor in that scenario though is that our back up to both is lamentably bad to the point of non existent. Davison, Leko and Burstow are either not ready, not good enough or not here! Chuks is a class act but unreliable. The stats are undoubtedly skewed as we are comparing the valuable contributions of Stockley and Washington against effectively bugger all.
However, the issue for me is whether Stockley and Washington are capable of leading a promotion winning side/plying at championship level. From what I have seen (and I admit my viewing is limited to TV/streaming) I don’t believe that they are. Stockley has already failed at championship level with Preston and I think the days of the “big lump” centre forward are over. Washington is a good honest trier whose career history has nothing to suggest that he is anything other than a decent league 1 player. I’d certainly keep both and they will play a part next season. But if we’re going to storm the league they need to be third and fourth choice.
Totally agree SB. Washington and Stockley have earned the right to be third and fourth choice strikers here next season..And no more. I fully expect two quality forwards to arrive in the summer. And as pointed out ~ gonna cost pretty penny.
Stockley and Washington have 20 goals combined from 45 starts. Wigan's Keane and Lang have 31 from 68 starts. Rotherham's Smith and Ladapo have 29 from 59. Those ratios are not too different.
We are 40 games in and our 3rd top scorer has 3 goals. Rotherham's 3rd and 4th top scorers have 8 apiece. Wigan's 3rd, 4th and 5th have 19 between them - ours have 8.
The focus is quite rightly on the chances missed by Stockley and Washington but when the rest of the squad are bringing absolutely nothing to the party then the focus on those two becomes even more exaggerated. You have to have goal scoring threats from other areas of the pitch and we don't.
Stockley and Washington have 20 goals combined from 45 starts. Wigan's Keane and Lang have 31 from 68 starts. Rotherham's Smith and Ladapo have 29 from 59. Those ratios are not too different.
We are 40 games in and our 3rd top scorer has 3 goals. Rotherham's 3rd and 4th top scorers have 8 apiece. Wigan's 3rd, 4th and 5th have 19 between them - ours have 8.
The focus is quite rightly on the chances missed by Stockley and Washington but when the rest of the squad are bringing absolutely nothing to the party then the focus on those two becomes even more exaggerated. You have to have goal scoring threats from other areas of the pitch and we don't.
Exactly how I view things. I genuinely do not think Stockley and Washington are the problem. It could be seen yesterday just how isolated they can both be from the rest of the team. CBT gets the ball wide and literally the only 2 players around the box are Stockley and Washington with no one else within 20 yards. At best they are man marked out of the game, with their wing back not upfield it was 3 v 2.
If we are to continue with this formation we have to really commit to the counter and flood the box.
I'm also in the mind that it's not actually the strikers that are the problem, it's the lack of any other threat. Go back to the Powell Promotion side and even if the strikers misfires you had Stephens, Jackson, Haynes could all chip in with goals.
Stockley and Washington have 20 goals combined from 45 starts. Wigan's Keane and Lang have 31 from 68 starts. Rotherham's Smith and Ladapo have 29 from 59. Those ratios are not too different.
We are 40 games in and our 3rd top scorer has 3 goals. Rotherham's 3rd and 4th top scorers have 8 apiece. Wigan's 3rd, 4th and 5th have 19 between them - ours have 8.
The focus is quite rightly on the chances missed by Stockley and Washington but when the rest of the squad are bringing absolutely nothing to the party then the focus on those two becomes even more exaggerated. You have to have goal scoring threats from other areas of the pitch and we don't.
Very good point, this is why it’s not as black and white as “we must sign a better striker”. It should definitely be the aim but even if we bring in two better strikers we still need goal threats across the team. More creativity will help too, we also need to create good quality chances more often.
I don't mind having Stockley and Washington next season as options but I'd want 2 other strikers in the door , don't want to be putting too much pressure on Kanu ,Gavin and Leaburn to come through.
AA , that's a fantastic point that we really really need to address goals from the rest of the pitch especially from midfield. Ironically Jacko needs to find someone that can weigh in like he used to himself!
Stockley and Washington have 20 goals combined from 45 starts. Wigan's Keane and Lang have 31 from 68 starts. Rotherham's Smith and Ladapo have 29 from 59. Those ratios are not too different.
We are 40 games in and our 3rd top scorer has 3 goals. Rotherham's 3rd and 4th top scorers have 8 apiece. Wigan's 3rd, 4th and 5th have 19 between them - ours have 8.
The focus is quite rightly on the chances missed by Stockley and Washington but when the rest of the squad are bringing absolutely nothing to the party then the focus on those two becomes even more exaggerated. You have to have goal scoring threats from other areas of the pitch and we don't.
Exactly how I view things. I genuinely do not think Stockley and Washington are the problem. It could be seen yesterday just how isolated they can both be from the rest of the team. CBT gets the ball wide and literally the only 2 players around the box are Stockley and Washington with no one else within 20 yards. At best they are man marked out of the game, with their wing back not upfield it was 3 v 2.
If we are to continue with this formation we have to really commit to the counter and flood the box.
But then Clare finds a totally unmarked Washington after a great run and he slips and loses it. You can sau theyre isolated and that we need goals from elsewhere, but they both had at least 3 golden chances each yesterday and scored 1 goal between them
I want better, but a point to counter this stuff about their poor finishing is BWP. He missed shitloads of chances but was a good enough promotion striker with a good side around him. Neither of these lads are ever gonna be Lyle Taylor who was exceptional at this level, but I think they can be as good as bwp.
that said, I’d still vote for a full refresh !
People misremember BWP a bit because he was part of a brilliant side, which is fair. The reality is though our main goalscorer, after a brilliant start, failed to score a single goal between 20th October and 25th February. That's 13 games without a goal. In that time we lost one match, mostly due to getting our keeper sent off early on (and Powell subbing Waggy when he should have subbed BWP), and drew 5. Of those 13 games, we only failed to score in 1, which was the one where we were a man down. In that team someone else would always pop up with the goals we needed. It wasn't just Yann carrying it either, he scored 4 across those 13 games. But everyone else chipped in, in that period Green, Russell, Morrison, Jackson, Stephens, Hollands and Ephraim all scored for us. We scored 17 goals in 13 games in the period where our main striker was having a mare and didn't contribute one. Our other players discounting Wash and Stockley have scored 25 league goals all season between them. That's over 40 games! Michael Morrison scored as many goals in that 13 game period as Gilbey has all season. Jordan Rhodes scored 36(!) goals for Huddersfield that season and they still finished 4th, because they couldn't defend and couldn't see out games.
We're sort of asking the wrong question sometimes. BWP was the king of 'get it on target' so he drilled plenty of good chances into the keepers' shins, and Yann, one of my favourite ever players only scored 12 goals that season. I think you could even get promoted with the strikers we currently have in a team as good as the one we had in 11/12, where the defence gave up nothing and you could always rely on a goal from somewhere, whether it was a holding midfielder banging in a header, a centre back smashing in from the edge of the box or a last minute 30 yarder from Stephens. We should try and get better strikers, but we need to fix absolutely everything else as well, front to back before it even matters.
Stockley and Washington have 20 goals combined from 45 starts. Wigan's Keane and Lang have 31 from 68 starts. Rotherham's Smith and Ladapo have 29 from 59. Those ratios are not too different.
We are 40 games in and our 3rd top scorer has 3 goals. Rotherham's 3rd and 4th top scorers have 8 apiece. Wigan's 3rd, 4th and 5th have 19 between them - ours have 8.
The focus is quite rightly on the chances missed by Stockley and Washington but when the rest of the squad are bringing absolutely nothing to the party then the focus on those two becomes even more exaggerated. You have to have goal scoring threats from other areas of the pitch and we don't.
Exactly how I view things. I genuinely do not think Stockley and Washington are the problem. It could be seen yesterday just how isolated they can both be from the rest of the team. CBT gets the ball wide and literally the only 2 players around the box are Stockley and Washington with no one else within 20 yards. At best they are man marked out of the game, with their wing back not upfield it was 3 v 2.
If we are to continue with this formation we have to really commit to the counter and flood the box.
But then Clare finds a totally unmarked Washington after a great run and he slips and loses it. You can sau theyre isolated and that we need goals from elsewhere, but they both had at least 3 golden chances each yesterday and scored 1 goal between them
Yesterday was a bad day at the office for both of them I won't even try and defend it. But it does highlight how dependent we are on them for goals, the fact there is zero threat from the rest of the team and also no option from the bench just makes things even more desperate.
Think we should cross the “if we get promoted we’d need new strikers” bridge when we get to it!
These two aren’t getting to the bridge let alone across it. These two and two more better Wed have a chance if the rest of the recruitment is satisfactory.
I had forgiven you for putting that chance in the side netting when it was 4-4 with Rochdale at the valley in the final minute and I kicked the small table with my coffee on and stained the Shag pile carpet and Mrs soapbox told me to calm down or go back to anger management !
BUT Yesterday when you missed your 4th or 5th chance of the day and put the ball wide at the covered end I jumped up and screamed out loud and my 600 page book Putin's People in a small bag went smashing into the head of a guy in front. Fortunately for me but not him he had concussion so I made my apologies and moved on and sent a first aider in his direction.
Now where's that number for the next anger management course ?
Comments
If we don't think we can, how low are our standards
That last one today from Washington epitomizes it. It wasn’t a sitter, but it wasn’t a hard chance either. He should have scored and saved a point. Imagine that chance is falling to us in the final minutes of a play-off final - are you praying it’s falling to Washington or Stockley or are you thinking it doesn’t really matter as you don’t have absolute faith in either of them?
that said, I’d still vote for a full refresh !
https://youtu.be/usYgf8cVfvU
We are 40 games in and our 3rd top scorer has 3 goals. Rotherham's 3rd and 4th top scorers have 8 apiece. Wigan's 3rd, 4th and 5th have 19 between them - ours have 8.
The focus is quite rightly on the chances missed by Stockley and Washington but when the rest of the squad are bringing absolutely nothing to the party then the focus on those two becomes even more exaggerated. You have to have goal scoring threats from other areas of the pitch and we don't.
If we are to continue with this formation we have to really commit to the counter and flood the box.
Now we have absolutely nothing.
help too, we also need to create good quality chances more often.
AA , that's a fantastic point that we really really need to address goals from the rest of the pitch especially from midfield. Ironically Jacko needs to find someone that can weigh in like he used to himself!
Will struggle to get us promoted and no chance they survive in the Championship.
A highlight reel of some of the chances they've missed this season wouldn't look out of place in the sunday league.
They got enough service to win the game yesterday, they wasted most of the chances provided.
I had forgiven you for putting that chance in the side netting when it was 4-4 with Rochdale at the valley in the final minute and I kicked the small table with my coffee on and stained the Shag pile carpet and Mrs soapbox told me to calm down or go back to anger management !
BUT Yesterday when you missed your 4th or 5th chance of the day and put the ball wide at the covered end I jumped up and screamed out loud and my 600 page book Putin's People in a small bag went smashing into the head of a guy in front.
Fortunately for me but not him he had concussion so I made my apologies and moved on and sent a first aider in his direction.
Now where's that number for the next anger management course ?