We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
I said I want us to bring in someone better so I don’t disagree that Washington isn’t the best finisher and that we’d have won by more yesterday with a better striker.
Conversion rate however will be heavily influenced by the quality and type of service, an area we’d all agree we need to improve. I’d say it’s more important than having the most clinical finishers in the division. If you watch back our goals from 18/19 we scored a lot of tap ins and simple finishes. Those goals are scored by good movement and anticipation more than by having the best finishers. Teams who create those type of chances will have higher conversion rates, those chances are easier to score but harder to create.
Putting our strikers into a better more creative side could increase their conversion rates without them becoming better finishers. My point was only that they’re broadly in a similar range to the top scorers in the division. Stockton only has 20% and Smith 17% but many would be happy to sign them as they should both have 20+ by the end of the season.
We need a more clinical version of Washington, his pace and workload, running defenders wide etc is very important to the team. If we bring in a more clinical player they may not contribute to the team in this way.
We need to keep Wash Equally important we need 2 or 3 decent CH’s Stockley is our best set play defender Lavelle might be alright and that’s our lot We’ll need backup strikers Davison might be one Chuks clearly isn’t Never acknowledged on here but oppo goalies are allowed to play well Mitchell yesterday a case in point How much better was he than MacG was last month? And we.won.the.game.ffs!
We also need more goals from elsewhere in the team, with our system a midfielder should be scoring double figures or close to it.
Lost count at the amount of times our midfield could have unleashed a shot from outside of the box but opted.to play it wide instead yesterday. Until we fix that then that problem will still exist.
Or they could play it wide and then get in the box to try and get on the end of the cross/cut back.
My point was to the fact that someone pointed out that midfield needed to weigh in with more goals.
I'm not sure Washington and Stockley are the problem. They combine well enough imo and would be a good attacking threat in league one. Sure we need another striker but that's mainly due to us not having any options due to the inevitable injury to Chucks ( whoever negotiated his contract needs their head examining ) hopefully one of the youngsters will come through next season. We have JFC returning but we have no idea if he will get back to 100% and maintain it after the 2 injuries he has had so our midfield certainly needs adding to . Defense is where we need to look at most I think, we all know the players there that are out of contract and I dont see a case of renewing any of them as they are just not good enough for various reasons
Underrated but not quite a promotion partnership in my view , although I guess the stats say that if they played every game, it might be . In my view , we need to sign a number one striker that could play well with either of them
Both of them hovering around 20th place for the division's Top Scorer. Nowhere near good enough for a promotion challenge although we do look better when they play together.
Haven’t lost since mid September when they have have both started. 2.75 points per game in that period. That isn’t sustainable but even 1.75ppg across a season is comfortable play-off form.
By the same metrics, less than 1.00ppg when one or both is missing puts us in real danger of relegation. And 24 games is, in EFL season terms, a large enough sample for me to say that that is the true ability of this team without them.
IMO It’s undeniable that together they must be having a positive impact.
By no means am I trying to prove we don’t need another striker. I think we all agree we do. More goals are always welcome. But they don’t grow on trees. I hope whoever they bring in can be a success but don’t be surprised if this time next year we are in the top six and our best results are coming with Stockley and Washington up front.
Haven’t lost since mid September when they have have both started. 2.75 points per game in that period. That isn’t sustainable but even 1.75ppg across a season is comfortable play-off form.
By the same metrics, less than 1.00ppg when one or both is missing puts us in real danger of relegation. And 24 games is, in EFL season terms, a large enough sample for me to say that that is the true ability of this team without them.
IMO It’s undeniable that together they must be having a positive impact.
By no means am I trying to prove we don’t need another striker. I think we all agree we do. More goals are always welcome. But they don’t grow on trees. I hope whoever they bring in can be a success but don’t be surprised if this time next year we are in the top six and our best results are coming with Stockley and Washington up front.
I think the disparity in performances and results when one of both are injured is a fantastic argument as to why we need another quality striker in the squad.
One who can step up and perform to their level, or above, and stay fit.
Underrated but not quite a promotion partnership in my view , although I guess the stats say that if they played every game, it might be . In my view , we need to sign a number one striker that could play well with either of them
We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
The problem is if you just have a better finisher next to Stockley, you don’t have all the brilliant energy, pressing and stretching of the game that Conor does.
I think it’s been proved since Jackson took over, that those two are good enough together to mount a promotion push, they just need help and support around them and suitable back ups should they get injured or suspended which Leko and Burstow are not.
Haven’t lost since mid September when they have have both started. 2.75 points per game in that period. That isn’t sustainable but even 1.75ppg across a season is comfortable play-off form.
By the same metrics, less than 1.00ppg when one or both is missing puts us in real danger of relegation. And 24 games is, in EFL season terms, a large enough sample for me to say that that is the true ability of this team without them.
IMO It’s undeniable that together they must be having a positive impact.
By no means am I trying to prove we don’t need another striker. I think we all agree we do. More goals are always welcome. But they don’t grow on trees. I hope whoever they bring in can be a success but don’t be surprised if this time next year we are in the top six and our best results are coming with Stockley and Washington up front.
They do have a positive impact but your sample size misses out most of the games against the top six.
Our record against the top 6 is played 11 W1 D2 L9.
They both played in 3 defeats and both draws.
Only Washington played in the win (arguably our best performance of the season).
Equally they both played in the home wins against Crewe, Doncaster etc. Which we may have won without them.
In short would we have got to the play offs if they had both played every game this season? Probably not and the way the fixtures fell, compared to their availability, inflates their PPG stats. IMO.
We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
The problem is if you just have a better finisher next to Stockley, you don’t have all the brilliant energy, pressing and stretching of the game that Conor does.
I think it’s been proved since Jackson took over, that those two are good enough together to mount a promotion push, they just need help and support around them and suitable back ups should they get injured or suspended which Leko and Burstow are not.
Proved how?
Because we beat 14th, 21st and 23rd and are using 3 games against some of the worst teams in the league to give an insignificant PPG tally?
Haven’t lost since mid September when they have have both started. 2.75 points per game in that period. That isn’t sustainable but even 1.75ppg across a season is comfortable play-off form.
By the same metrics, less than 1.00ppg when one or both is missing puts us in real danger of relegation. And 24 games is, in EFL season terms, a large enough sample for me to say that that is the true ability of this team without them.
IMO It’s undeniable that together they must be having a positive impact.
By no means am I trying to prove we don’t need another striker. I think we all agree we do. More goals are always welcome. But they don’t grow on trees. I hope whoever they bring in can be a success but don’t be surprised if this time next year we are in the top six and our best results are coming with Stockley and Washington up front.
Chuks starting alongside Washington has 3 PPG.
Guess we need to bin off Stockley because statistically we don't lose when Aneke and Washington play together.
We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
The problem is if you just have a better finisher next to Stockley, you don’t have all the brilliant energy, pressing and stretching of the game that Conor does.
I think it’s been proved since Jackson took over, that those two are good enough together to mount a promotion push, they just need help and support around them and suitable back ups should they get injured or suspended which Leko and Burstow are not.
Not sure that's true. I think they can mount a playoff push, but to truly aim for autos we just need more quality with a Taylor/Grant or Yann/BWP type first-choice partnership.
As others have said they don’t have the same wow factor as Yann & BWP or Taylor & Grant (albeit for only half a season) in our previous two promotions from this league. They need too many chances to convert for me and we definitely need a another 1st choice striker for the automatics.
They are not the greatest partnership but I feel that with Chuks we would have enough all good characters around the dressing was well apparently which is important
We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
The problem is if you just have a better finisher next to Stockley, you don’t have all the brilliant energy, pressing and stretching of the game that Conor does.
I think it’s been proved since Jackson took over, that those two are good enough together to mount a promotion push, they just need help and support around them and suitable back ups should they get injured or suspended which Leko and Burstow are not.
Not sure that's true. I think they can mount a playoff push, but to truly aim for autos we just need more quality with a Taylor/Grant or Yann/BWP type first-choice partnership.
I don't believe they are that far off. (Bar Yann who was just far too good for League One it was a joke) Just look at the people who Taylor had behind him consistently. (Beilik, Aribo, Cullen...). Also, Powell had Paul Hayes, Jason Euell, Danny Haynes backing these players up.
You can't just rely on 2 people upfront in the squad because there will always be injuries and suspensions. But, when playing as our two main strikers, they have an outstanding record together.
Quite simply this season when I look at the team sheets at 2pm and see they're playing, I believe we'll win. When they're not, I don't. That to me, says it is more about the support acts that need to be improved than them.
We also need more goals from elsewhere in the team, with our system a midfielder should be scoring double figures or close to it.
Lost count at the amount of times our midfield could have unleashed a shot from outside of the box but opted.to play it wide instead yesterday. Until we fix that then that problem will still exist.
Or they could play it wide and then get in the box to try and get on the end of the cross/cut back.
My point was to the fact that someone pointed out that midfield needed to weigh in with more goals.
It was me and I was agreeing with you, shoot or get in the box.
We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
The problem is if you just have a better finisher next to Stockley, you don’t have all the brilliant energy, pressing and stretching of the game that Conor does.
I think it’s been proved since Jackson took over, that those two are good enough together to mount a promotion push, they just need help and support around them and suitable back ups should they get injured or suspended which Leko and Burstow are not.
Not sure that's true. I think they can mount a playoff push, but to truly aim for autos we just need more quality with a Taylor/Grant or Yann/BWP type first-choice partnership.
I don't believe they are that far off. (Bar Yann who was just far too good for League One it was a joke) Just look at the people who Taylor had behind him consistently. (Beilik, Aribo, Cullen...). Also, Powell had Paul Hayes, Jason Euell, Danny Haynes backing these players up.
You can't just rely on 2 people upfront in the squad because there will always be injuries and suspensions. But, when playing as our two main strikers, they have an outstanding record together.
Quite simply this season when I look at the team sheets at 2pm and see they're playing, I believe we'll win. When they're not, I don't. That to me, says it is more about the support acts that need to be improved than them.
Fair enough, I do feel more confident with them starting, but I wouldn't feel like we'll necessarily trouble the best defences in the league too much. I just thinking Stockley is more of a Hayes and Washington more of a Haynes than a Taylor or BWP. Great players to have in those roles, but if we're supplementing our strike force with players worse than Stockley and Washington, I don't think it'll be enough for top two.
Haven’t lost since mid September when they have have both started. 2.75 points per game in that period. That isn’t sustainable but even 1.75ppg across a season is comfortable play-off form.
By the same metrics, less than 1.00ppg when one or both is missing puts us in real danger of relegation. And 24 games is, in EFL season terms, a large enough sample for me to say that that is the true ability of this team without them.
IMO It’s undeniable that together they must be having a positive impact.
By no means am I trying to prove we don’t need another striker. I think we all agree we do. More goals are always welcome. But they don’t grow on trees. I hope whoever they bring in can be a success but don’t be surprised if this time next year we are in the top six and our best results are coming with Stockley and Washington up front.
They do have a positive impact but your sample size misses out most of the games against the top six.
Our record against the top 6 is played 11 W1 D2 L9.
They both played in 3 defeats and both draws.
Only Washington played in the win (arguably our best performance of the season).
Equally they both played in the home wins against Crewe, Doncaster etc. Which we may have won without them.
In short would we have got to the play offs if they had both played every game this season? Probably not and the way the fixtures fell, compared to their availability, inflates their PPG stats. IMO.
Haven’t lost since mid September when they have have both started. 2.75 points per game in that period. That isn’t sustainable but even 1.75ppg across a season is comfortable play-off form.
By the same metrics, less than 1.00ppg when one or both is missing puts us in real danger of relegation. And 24 games is, in EFL season terms, a large enough sample for me to say that that is the true ability of this team without them.
IMO It’s undeniable that together they must be having a positive impact.
By no means am I trying to prove we don’t need another striker. I think we all agree we do. More goals are always welcome. But they don’t grow on trees. I hope whoever they bring in can be a success but don’t be surprised if this time next year we are in the top six and our best results are coming with Stockley and Washington up front.
Chuks starting alongside Washington has 3 PPG.
Guess we need to bin off Stockley because statistically we don't lose when Aneke and Washington play together.
Average league position of opponents when they’ve both played is 14th.
Average league position of opponents when one or both have been missing is 12th.
Two positions in a 24 team league. Immaterial in the grand scheme IMO. Yep we have won with them playing some dross recently but we’ve lost to Crewe, Lincoln, Shrewsbury etc without them.
@SELR_addicks Yes the sample is small but the difference in PPG is inarguably significant.
Strikers are generally only as good as the supply they get unless they’re something very special. I’d say Stockley and Washington are a top six strike pairing provided they have a set of promotion quality players around them. Neither are good enough to carry a mediocre team to a promotion push. Those two plus Chuks will score goals but if we want a really good chance of promotion then I’d say we need an upgrade on all three.
Underrated but not quite a promotion partnership in my view , although I guess the stats say that if they played every game, it might be . In my view , we need to sign a number one striker that could play well with either of them
Both of them hovering around 20th place for the division's Top Scorer. Nowhere near good enough for a promotion challenge although we do look better when they play together.
Both have missed a fair chunk through injury.
Look at the goals per minute table added earlier and they are both high up the list
our problem is not having a back up for when they can't/don't play
We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
The problem is if you just have a better finisher next to Stockley, you don’t have all the brilliant energy, pressing and stretching of the game that Conor does.
I think it’s been proved since Jackson took over, that those two are good enough together to mount a promotion push, they just need help and support around them and suitable back ups should they get injured or suspended which Leko and Burstow are not.
Proved how?
Because we beat 14th, 21st and 23rd and are using 3 games against some of the worst teams in the league to give an insignificant PPG tally?
You do realise that you still need to beat the teams in 14th, 21st and 23rd to get promoted?
We’re not used to having strikers like Stockley and Washington - they’re both really solid players at this level but not the best. We so often have top strikers for this level (BWP, Yann, Taylor, Grant) backed up by below average strikers (too many to name).
We have Chuks for the backup role, so it’s a good group all who can comfortably score double figures if they get the service and game time.
Jackson plays two up front so we need at least once more striker in the summer. The aim should be to bring in someone better than any of them, a player who could step up to the Championship if we get promoted.
I’d like to think one of the likes of Kanu and Gavin could be 5th choice but Burstow has shown it’s a big step up, especially physically, so we might need another striker too. I’d focus on one top striker and the other being cover rather than two more solid players like Washington and Stockley - what we don’t want is another squad of squad players like last season.
At their age they’re both likely at their peak, loads of experience and not yet physically declining. I wouldn’t write off either getting 20 or close to it in the right circumstances, but it needs a lot to come together - a promotion quality team and squad, the player to stay fit, plenty of creativity and good reliable service etc. This team would be a lot stronger if we had CBTs threat on both wings, a goalscoring CM, a Clare style ball playing defender on either side and a few dangerous attacking players on the bench.
Their finishing stats are very similar to the top scorers in this league, the gap isn’t as big as many believe, though I’d agree neither have that look of extra quality that Yann, BWP, Taylor and Grant had.
20% conversion rate compared to 25-30% is a huge difference considering the amount of shots a player will have over a season. Washington for example is closer to Davison, who is a poor striker, than a Stockley, Keane, May or even Burstow in terms of conversion.
Washington isn't a good finisher, never has been.
If we had a clinical striker next to Stockley we would be winning games like yesterday with a much better margin than by 1 goal.
The problem is if you just have a better finisher next to Stockley, you don’t have all the brilliant energy, pressing and stretching of the game that Conor does.
I think it’s been proved since Jackson took over, that those two are good enough together to mount a promotion push, they just need help and support around them and suitable back ups should they get injured or suspended which Leko and Burstow are not.
Not sure that's true. I think they can mount a playoff push, but to truly aim for autos we just need more quality with a Taylor/Grant or Yann/BWP type first-choice partnership.
I don't believe they are that far off. (Bar Yann who was just far too good for League One it was a joke) Just look at the people who Taylor had behind him consistently. (Beilik, Aribo, Cullen...). Also, Powell had Paul Hayes, Jason Euell, Danny Haynes backing these players up.
You can't just rely on 2 people upfront in the squad because there will always be injuries and suspensions. But, when playing as our two main strikers, they have an outstanding record together.
Quite simply this season when I look at the team sheets at 2pm and see they're playing, I believe we'll win. When they're not, I don't. That to me, says it is more about the support acts that need to be improved than them.
Fair enough, I do feel more confident with them starting, but I wouldn't feel like we'll necessarily trouble the best defences in the league too much. I just thinking Stockley is more of a Hayes and Washington more of a Haynes than a Taylor or BWP. Great players to have in those roles, but if we're supplementing our strike force with players worse than Stockley and Washington, I don't think it'll be enough for top two.
I agree completely with this last line. I think the signing we make this summer does need to be in the poacher type role, but that is only because that complements what we have as opposed to replaces it. I think say a front 4 of Washington, Aneke, Stockley and a BWP type player would be good enough for a top two finish... but that will also require the addition of another gk, cb x2 (at least), Lwb, rwb and cm x 2.
As others have said they don’t have the same wow factor as Yann & BWP or Taylor & Grant (albeit for only half a season) in our previous two promotions from this league. They need too many chances to convert for me and we definitely need a another 1st choice striker for the automatics.
Yann was a bit special though. He was already very experienced in France including their top league and, of course, in the Championship here. Not only did he go on to shine with Charlton back in the Championship (and finally Reading) but won promotion with Bournemouth and played in the Premier League with them.
He wasn't a Third Division player ..... and Powelly did brilliantly to persuade him to drop down a League and play for us. We'd be very fortunate to find another 'Kermorgant'.
Good stuff @Callumcafc, it’s impressive to see when set out. my only mitigating point I think the majority have been at home games, where I think this season we have been a completely different side to when we are away.
Washington I think has had a good season and interesting hearing Karl Robinson last night on Quest say how every L1 manager was impressed when we signed Stockley, so he is clearly rated at this level.
Theres a nagging something, I don’t know what though, that is stopping me putting my full weight behind them as a pairing to take us forward.
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Conversion rate however will be heavily influenced by the quality and type of service, an area we’d all agree we need to improve. I’d say it’s more important than having the most clinical finishers in the division. If you watch back our goals from 18/19 we scored a lot of tap ins and simple finishes. Those goals are scored by good movement and anticipation more than by having the best finishers. Teams who create those type of chances will have higher conversion rates, those chances are easier to score but harder to create.
Putting our strikers into a better more creative side could increase their conversion rates without them becoming better finishers. My point was only that they’re broadly in a similar range to the top scorers in the division. Stockton only has 20% and Smith 17% but many would be happy to sign them as they should both have 20+ by the end of the season.
Equally important we need 2 or 3 decent CH’s
Stockley is our best set play defender Lavelle might be alright and that’s our lot
We’ll need backup strikers Davison might be one Chuks clearly isn’t
Never acknowledged on here but oppo goalies are allowed to play well
Mitchell yesterday a case in point
How much better was he than MacG was last month?
And we.won.the.game.ffs!
By the same metrics, less than 1.00ppg when one or both is missing puts us in real danger of relegation. And 24 games is, in EFL season terms, a large enough sample for me to say that that is the true ability of this team without them.
IMO It’s undeniable that together they must be having a positive impact.
By no means am I trying to prove we don’t need another striker. I think we all agree we do. More goals are always welcome. But they don’t grow on trees. I hope whoever they bring in can be a success but don’t be surprised if this time next year we are in the top six and our best results are coming with Stockley and Washington up front.
Now I'll go and wash my mouth out.
Our record against the top 6 is played 11 W1 D2 L9.
They both played in 3 defeats and both draws.
Only Washington played in the win (arguably our best performance of the season).
Equally they both played in the home wins against Crewe, Doncaster etc. Which we may have won without them.
In short would we have got to the play offs if they had both played every game this season? Probably not and the way the fixtures fell, compared to their availability, inflates their PPG stats. IMO.
Because we beat 14th, 21st and 23rd and are using 3 games against some of the worst teams in the league to give an insignificant PPG tally?
Guess we need to bin off Stockley because statistically we don't lose when Aneke and Washington play together.
You can't just rely on 2 people upfront in the squad because there will always be injuries and suspensions. But, when playing as our two main strikers, they have an outstanding record together.
Quite simply this season when I look at the team sheets at 2pm and see they're playing, I believe we'll win. When they're not, I don't. That to me, says it is more about the support acts that need to be improved than them.
Average league position of opponents when one or both have been missing is 12th.
Two positions in a 24 team league. Immaterial in the grand scheme IMO. Yep we have won with them playing some dross recently but we’ve lost to Crewe, Lincoln, Shrewsbury etc without them.
@SELR_addicks
Yes the sample is small but the difference in PPG is inarguably significant.
our problem is not having a back up for when they can't/don't play
I thought Stockton was the names combined when it was put up .. so can we sign a Washley as well 🙄
Not only did he go on to shine with Charlton back in the Championship (and finally Reading) but won promotion with Bournemouth and played in the Premier League with them.
He wasn't a Third Division player ..... and Powelly did brilliantly to persuade him to drop down a League and play for us.
We'd be very fortunate to find another 'Kermorgant'.
Washington I think has had a good season and interesting hearing Karl Robinson last night on Quest say how every L1 manager was impressed when we signed Stockley, so he is clearly rated at this level.
Theres a nagging something, I don’t know what though, that is stopping me putting my full weight behind them as a pairing to take us forward.