Thought the same earlier. His agent will probably let his contract run down given he was our POTY and if that’s his advice, we may cash in now if there’s championship interest. Hopefully not and as someone said hopefully we have an option to extend for a year .
If so, although I wouldn't argue about needing more depth in that position equally I wouldn't have seen it as a priority given the gaping holes elsewhere in the squad. Hopefully, we'll bring in enough quality elsewhere for that not to matter.
Nope. Sorry @Davo55. I don't recognise those particular Velvet Underground lyrics. Which song are they from?
Can’t see either being cover and both of them holding might be too defensive.
Dobson has one year left on his contract though the club do have an option to extend it by a further year.
Maybe we are thinking of playing with 2 CDM's
It's not impossible. Chelsea have had a couple of different managers use Kante further forward than he initially was when he first signed, instead of having him sweep up behind using him to screen a deep lying playmaker and win the ball higher up the pitch. Dobson is a good passer, though I'm not sure if he's capable of driving the ball as would be required in that role.
My 7 is assuming others go from what we have left. Personally think we need 10.
TS said 8/9 with 5 perms
He didn't, he actually said
"I would expect somewhere between two to four, maybe five, major signings"
But understanding words like expect and maybe isn't your strength is it.
“I would expect somewhere between two to four, maybe five, major signings. Then on the loan side, still be in the situation where we’ll probably be trying to fill it up with fairly inexpensive but high-quality loan players.
“Maybe six [loans]. That’s one too many, but it gives us a chance to reshuffle a bit.
So 4 maybe 5 ( even 3 ) plus 6 loans =
You said
"TS said 8/9 with 5 perms"
So 4 maybe 5 ( even 3 ) plus 6 loans does not equal 8/9 does it?
You really need to try harder. It's like arguing with a pigeon.
As soon as I heard the Reed link I assumed it meant that Garner could possibly go with a 4-2-3-1 system. We haven't got the players for a 4-3-3 and would need to bring in 2 or 3 attackers to make it work. It's a hard (and expensive) position to fill.
However we already have at least 2 players who could fulfil the 1 in that system, plus players like DJ and CBT would could fit into the wide positions of the 3. You then have Dobson/Reed/JFC filling your 2, you already need new fullbacks, so you bring in attacking ones, and you can player Frasier as the middle of the 3, so you just need to bring in competition.
So with a 4-3-3 you need to bring in 2-3 attackers, whilst with 4-2-3-1 you need to bring in midfield cover/competition, a far easier position to fill. It's the same number of players, but a bigger pool to choose from.
We know that Garner wants to play possession football, there's definitely an argument that can be better achieved with the 4-2-3-1.
Plus you have to consider who can step up from the U23s and who is coming through behind them. Is it easier to build a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 over the coming years, and which gets the best out of the talent that is coming through.
I notice no one has suggested Reed could be a replacement for Dobson?
Find it strange (& been saying it for months) that we haven't tried to extend his contract or do we have an option of another year next summer ? Edit. see this has been answered, always bloody late to the party
Can’t see either being cover and both of them holding might be too defensive.
Dobson has one year left on his contract though the club do have an option to extend it by a further year.
If Reed did become a Cafc player there is no reason he couldn't play in the same team as Dobbo. We would only want two holding midfielders if we have attacking full backs especially at home but they are both well capable of moving and they won't get a nose bleed if either George or Louis open up the game with forward runs. I would love to see the potential of George and see if he can develop his game and how he can strike up relationships with JFC and/or Fraser who haven't been fit to show what he can do after his disappointing time at Ipswich.
I don't know much about Reed but I see lots that Garner can work with Dobson. The day I spoke to Jayden Stockley ( name dropper) I did mention about Sean Clare turning into an attacking RB. He agreed, with his pace he can definitely break forward quickly and if we can keep the other CB'd fit then great. Jayden did add that Matthews was probably going. Not on OS when speaking but revealed a couple of days later.
For Cafc to be in the shake up we need to think out side the box; as well as in it.
I will be surprised if no new faces are revealed before the Spanish trip as it helps with the bonding and we need players ASAP for all the reasons mentioned by others..
As soon as I heard the Reed link I assumed it meant that Garner could possibly go with a 4-2-3-1 system. We haven't got the players for a 4-3-3 and would need to bring in 2 or 3 attackers to make it work. It's a hard (and expensive) position to fill.
However we already have at least 2 players who could fulfil the 1 in that system, plus players like DJ and CBT would could fit into the wide positions of the 3. You then have Dobson/Reed/JFC filling your 2, you already need new fullbacks, so you bring in attacking ones, and you can player Frasier as the middle of the 3, so you just need to bring in competition.
So with a 4-3-3 you need to bring in 2-3 attackers, whilst with 4-2-3-1 you need to bring in midfield cover/competition, a far easier position to fill. It's the same number of players, but a bigger pool to choose from.
We know that Garner wants to play possession football, there's definitely an argument that can be better achieved with the 4-2-3-1.
Plus you have to consider who can step up from the U23s and who is coming through behind them. Is it easier to build a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 over the coming years, and which gets the best out of the talent that is coming through.
Is there much difference between a 433 and 4231? Personally I think the only difference is the 3 CM's, with a 4231 having two holding and then relying on one being a lot more attacking. If we sign Reed, I think we just need one more CM, who has to be capable of chipping in. But we'd have 7 players who see themselves as midfielders so will have to offload one.
As soon as I heard the Reed link I assumed it meant that Garner could possibly go with a 4-2-3-1 system. We haven't got the players for a 4-3-3 and would need to bring in 2 or 3 attackers to make it work. It's a hard (and expensive) position to fill.
However we already have at least 2 players who could fulfil the 1 in that system, plus players like DJ and CBT would could fit into the wide positions of the 3. You then have Dobson/Reed/JFC filling your 2, you already need new fullbacks, so you bring in attacking ones, and you can player Frasier as the middle of the 3, so you just need to bring in competition.
So with a 4-3-3 you need to bring in 2-3 attackers, whilst with 4-2-3-1 you need to bring in midfield cover/competition, a far easier position to fill. It's the same number of players, but a bigger pool to choose from.
We know that Garner wants to play possession football, there's definitely an argument that can be better achieved with the 4-2-3-1.
Plus you have to consider who can step up from the U23s and who is coming through behind them. Is it easier to build a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 over the coming years, and which gets the best out of the talent that is coming through.
I’m not sure Fraser is a 10. I think he operates best on the left of a midfield 3 where he can get on the ball more, be more involved and link up with a winger/full back/wing back. So I think our current squad suits a 4-3-3 set up more.
Why would we need new forwards for a 4-3-3 and not for a 4-2-3-1 when the winger/striker positions are practically the same it’s just the makeup of the central midfield that has changed.
Reed I think could be used alongside Dobson as 2 holding midfielders in tougher games. But I think it’s more likely he will be used as competition for Dobson or in a RCM role competing with JFC for that spot in a 4-3-3 with Fraser in his preferred left central position
If we only sign 7 players (including loanees) then I'll be throwing in the towel.
That would be deeply troubling given that in an ideal world we'd sign 6 defenders without even looking further up the pitch. I don't think we're likely to end up with 2 quality players in every position though. In the 2011/12 season we signed loads of players in a time when it was easier to do that on a smaller budget and we still didn't really cover ourselves that well. Hughes was signed as a backup RB but never played there and ended up being the cover for Stephens at CM because Pritchard was signed as a punt, Alonso was a practical joke and there wasn't any depth there. Francis was technically there as backup but he played 2 league cup games, was terrible in both and I reckon Powell would have put Keith Peacock in there before he played Francis in a league game. Solly played 44 league games that season and the only games he didn't play we used Morrison and Wiggins at RB where they were both very bad. We only had one proper left-sided midfielder in Jackson, who had just recovered from an achilles injury recently. We started the season with two first choice strikers and Paul Benson who Powell clearly didn't fancy. We added Yann at the end of September and then Haynes and Clarke in January but we spent the first half of the season short up front in terms of depth. Part of the situation was that the loan market was different then; when Jackson got injured we brought in Ephraim and then Lee Cook, Darel Russell came in to cover Stephens and N'Guessan was brought in to add a bit of life to the attack. The ability to make those signings in November and March meant you didn't have to worry so much about building the squad out fully but we were so lucky with injuries that season. 44 league games out of Solly! 45 out of Morrison and Wiggins with them only missing a dead rubber where we rotated the full 11 at the end of the season, no injuries to Taylor or Cort. Hamer, Hollands and BWP all playing over 40 league games, with Jackson only missing 9 games across the whole season despite some knocks and only missing games in small groups instead of large chunks. I think Yann missed one game through being unavailable.
That's the key for us this season to be honest, stop having these ridiculous injury lay-offs for our players. We had a fantastic back four in 11/12 and there was honestly one game where we were unable to field it by choice (we drew, it was awful. Green on the left, Pritch on the right, Wiggins at right back. Horrible use of my Tuesday). That was the basis of our success. In front of that we had one long-ish injury absence and nothing else. We were really lucky that season but it does go to show that you can get away with a lot in terms of squad building if you can keep your players fit.
Francis went on to play in the Championship and the Premiership while we wallowed in L1. On that basis Powell isnt the judge you think he is and neither are you.
I normally don't respond to your trollery but Francis was very bad for Charlton. He was then very good for Bournemouth. Some players just don't work out at certain clubs, Powell set a L1 points record that season (which resulted in promotion to the Championship one year ahead of Bournemouth and Francis) and then finished 3 points outside the Play-Offs the next season despite there being no further investment. I think he might have been alright at judging what that team did and didn't need. My judgment is entirely open for questioning though, crack on.
If we only sign 7 players (including loanees) then I'll be throwing in the towel.
That would be deeply troubling given that in an ideal world we'd sign 6 defenders without even looking further up the pitch. I don't think we're likely to end up with 2 quality players in every position though. In the 2011/12 season we signed loads of players in a time when it was easier to do that on a smaller budget and we still didn't really cover ourselves that well. Hughes was signed as a backup RB but never played there and ended up being the cover for Stephens at CM because Pritchard was signed as a punt, Alonso was a practical joke and there wasn't any depth there. Francis was technically there as backup but he played 2 league cup games, was terrible in both and I reckon Powell would have put Keith Peacock in there before he played Francis in a league game. Solly played 44 league games that season and the only games he didn't play we used Morrison and Wiggins at RB where they were both very bad. We only had one proper left-sided midfielder in Jackson, who had just recovered from an achilles injury recently. We started the season with two first choice strikers and Paul Benson who Powell clearly didn't fancy. We added Yann at the end of September and then Haynes and Clarke in January but we spent the first half of the season short up front in terms of depth. Part of the situation was that the loan market was different then; when Jackson got injured we brought in Ephraim and then Lee Cook, Darel Russell came in to cover Stephens and N'Guessan was brought in to add a bit of life to the attack. The ability to make those signings in November and March meant you didn't have to worry so much about building the squad out fully but we were so lucky with injuries that season. 44 league games out of Solly! 45 out of Morrison and Wiggins with them only missing a dead rubber where we rotated the full 11 at the end of the season, no injuries to Taylor or Cort. Hamer, Hollands and BWP all playing over 40 league games, with Jackson only missing 9 games across the whole season despite some knocks and only missing games in small groups instead of large chunks. I think Yann missed one game through being unavailable.
That's the key for us this season to be honest, stop having these ridiculous injury lay-offs for our players. We had a fantastic back four in 11/12 and there was honestly one game where we were unable to field it by choice (we drew, it was awful. Green on the left, Pritch on the right, Wiggins at right back. Horrible use of my Tuesday). That was the basis of our success. In front of that we had one long-ish injury absence and nothing else. We were really lucky that season but it does go to show that you can get away with a lot in terms of squad building if you can keep your players fit.
Francis went on to play in the Championship and the Premiership while we wallowed in L1. On that basis Powell isnt the judge you think he is and neither are you.
I normally don't respond to your trollery but Francis was very bad for Charlton. He was then very good for Bournemouth. Some players just don't work out at certain clubs, Powell set a L1 points record that season (which resulted in promotion to the Championship one year ahead of Bournemouth and Francis) and then finished 3 points outside the Play-Offs the next season despite there being no further investment. I think he might have been alright at judging what that team did and didn't need. My judgment is entirely open for questioning though, crack on.
Vases on 2 league Cup performances with the crowd on his back yes but nobody judges a player like that. Francis ended up a consistent Premier perfomer. Your judgement is indeed inaccurate and flaky.
Whether it be 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 I still think we will need a couple of new attackers. Kirk and CBT is good for the left, DJ backup on the right with hopefully a new starter signed and then Kanu could be 5th option for those wide positions. Stockley will probably end up being our starting striker but I would prefer someone who will be better on their own and would suit the pressing game more
I notice no one has suggested Reed could be a replacement for Dobson?
Hmmm the fact that Buttle JR has liked this is concerning.
We had three players last season who looked like they might be good enough for a higher team than us, Stockley, CBT and Dobson. I would not be very surprised if all or any of them got an offer that neither they or we could refuse.
As soon as I heard the Reed link I assumed it meant that Garner could possibly go with a 4-2-3-1 system. We haven't got the players for a 4-3-3 and would need to bring in 2 or 3 attackers to make it work. It's a hard (and expensive) position to fill.
However we already have at least 2 players who could fulfil the 1 in that system, plus players like DJ and CBT would could fit into the wide positions of the 3. You then have Dobson/Reed/JFC filling your 2, you already need new fullbacks, so you bring in attacking ones, and you can player Frasier as the middle of the 3, so you just need to bring in competition.
So with a 4-3-3 you need to bring in 2-3 attackers, whilst with 4-2-3-1 you need to bring in midfield cover/competition, a far easier position to fill. It's the same number of players, but a bigger pool to choose from.
We know that Garner wants to play possession football, there's definitely an argument that can be better achieved with the 4-2-3-1.
Plus you have to consider who can step up from the U23s and who is coming through behind them. Is it easier to build a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 over the coming years, and which gets the best out of the talent that is coming through.
I’m not sure Fraser is a 10. I think he operates best on the left of a midfield 3 where he can get on the ball more, be more involved and link up with a winger/full back/wing back. So I think our current squad suits a 4-3-3 set up more.
Why would we need new forwards for a 4-3-3 and not for a 4-2-3-1 when the winger/striker positions are practically the same it’s just the makeup of the central midfield that has changed.
Reed I think could be used alongside Dobson as 2 holding midfielders in tougher games. But I think it’s more likely he will be used as competition for Dobson or in a RCM role competing with JFC for that spot in a 4-3-3 with Fraser in his preferred left central position
Agreed. I think we need 7 for the AM/Winger/Striker position either way. We have 6 at the moment, we need a quality starter to play in that front 3 that can score goals. McKirdy is a risk as he's only had one decent season but we do need someone like that IMO. We do need another striker but you'd imagine Davison would have to leave for that to happen.
As soon as I heard the Reed link I assumed it meant that Garner could possibly go with a 4-2-3-1 system. We haven't got the players for a 4-3-3 and would need to bring in 2 or 3 attackers to make it work. It's a hard (and expensive) position to fill.
However we already have at least 2 players who could fulfil the 1 in that system, plus players like DJ and CBT would could fit into the wide positions of the 3. You then have Dobson/Reed/JFC filling your 2, you already need new fullbacks, so you bring in attacking ones, and you can player Frasier as the middle of the 3, so you just need to bring in competition.
So with a 4-3-3 you need to bring in 2-3 attackers, whilst with 4-2-3-1 you need to bring in midfield cover/competition, a far easier position to fill. It's the same number of players, but a bigger pool to choose from.
We know that Garner wants to play possession football, there's definitely an argument that can be better achieved with the 4-2-3-1.
Plus you have to consider who can step up from the U23s and who is coming through behind them. Is it easier to build a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 over the coming years, and which gets the best out of the talent that is coming through.
Is there much difference between a 433 and 4231? Personally I think the only difference is the 3 CM's, with a 4231 having two holding and then relying on one being a lot more attacking. If we sign Reed, I think we just need one more CM, who has to be capable of chipping in. But we'd have 7 players who see themselves as midfielders so will have to offload one.
Agree if we get Reed we would need 1 more that will chip in with goals. Then would like to move Gilbey and Morgan on and then just use Henry as the 6th midfield option as he’s young so doesn’t count to squad list. No point using up a squad spot on a 6th choice when we probably need it elsewhere
As soon as I heard the Reed link I assumed it meant that Garner could possibly go with a 4-2-3-1 system. We haven't got the players for a 4-3-3 and would need to bring in 2 or 3 attackers to make it work. It's a hard (and expensive) position to fill.
However we already have at least 2 players who could fulfil the 1 in that system, plus players like DJ and CBT would could fit into the wide positions of the 3. You then have Dobson/Reed/JFC filling your 2, you already need new fullbacks, so you bring in attacking ones, and you can player Frasier as the middle of the 3, so you just need to bring in competition.
So with a 4-3-3 you need to bring in 2-3 attackers, whilst with 4-2-3-1 you need to bring in midfield cover/competition, a far easier position to fill. It's the same number of players, but a bigger pool to choose from.
We know that Garner wants to play possession football, there's definitely an argument that can be better achieved with the 4-2-3-1.
Plus you have to consider who can step up from the U23s and who is coming through behind them. Is it easier to build a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 over the coming years, and which gets the best out of the talent that is coming through.
Is there much difference between a 433 and 4231? Personally I think the only difference is the 3 CM's, with a 4231 having two holding and then relying on one being a lot more attacking. If we sign Reed, I think we just need one more CM, who has to be capable of chipping in. But we'd have 7 players who see themselves as midfielders so will have to offload one.
Agree if we get Reed we would need 1 more that will chip in with goals. Then would like to move Gilbey and Morgan on and then just use Henry as the 6th midfield option as he’s young so doesn’t count to squad list. No point using up a squad spot on a 6th choice when we probably need it elsewhere
Do we know if the squad cap is 20 or 21 players? If we go for 2 players in each position plus Clare and Aneke then we’d only 1 or 2 of those to be U21. I’d be content with using Henry as 6th, especially as we’ve got Clare too. Although it’s a long old season and I don’t think having one of Morgan or Gilbey as 6th choice would be a bad idea. I’d probably go for the U21 at full back.
Comments
Sorry @Davo55.
I don't recognise those particular Velvet Underground lyrics.
Which song are they from?
However we already have at least 2 players who could fulfil the 1 in that system, plus players like DJ and CBT would could fit into the wide positions of the 3. You then have Dobson/Reed/JFC filling your 2, you already need new fullbacks, so you bring in attacking ones, and you can player Frasier as the middle of the 3, so you just need to bring in competition.
So with a 4-3-3 you need to bring in 2-3 attackers, whilst with 4-2-3-1 you need to bring in midfield cover/competition, a far easier position to fill. It's the same number of players, but a bigger pool to choose from.
We know that Garner wants to play possession football, there's definitely an argument that can be better achieved with the 4-2-3-1.
Plus you have to consider who can step up from the U23s and who is coming through behind them. Is it easier to build a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 over the coming years, and which gets the best out of the talent that is coming through.
If Reed did become a Cafc player there is no reason he couldn't play in the same team as Dobbo. We would only want two holding midfielders if we have attacking full backs especially at home but they are both well capable of moving and they won't get a nose bleed if either George or Louis open up the game with forward runs. I would love to see the potential of George and see if he can develop his game and how he can strike up relationships with JFC and/or Fraser who haven't been fit to show what he can do after his disappointing time at Ipswich.
I don't know much about Reed but I see lots that Garner can work with Dobson. The day I spoke to Jayden Stockley ( name dropper) I did mention about Sean Clare turning into an attacking RB. He agreed, with his pace he can definitely break forward quickly and if we can keep the other CB'd fit then great. Jayden did add that Matthews was probably going. Not on OS when speaking but revealed a couple of days later.
For Cafc to be in the shake up we need to think out side the box; as well as in it.
I will be surprised if no new faces are revealed before the Spanish trip as it helps with the bonding and we need players ASAP for all the reasons mentioned by others..
That probably goes for one or two of our other "better" players.