Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
Fanny with respect, I don’t see why getting rid of people that are not cutting the mustard as curious!! Are we in danger of believing rumours without real substance, because even when things take a turn for the better, suddenly snippets of discontent get leaked. I dont have any contacts that are ITK, so as someone who just reads posts on here and responds with my uneducated thoughts, it comes across as very negative, almost like people have to see a bit of drama around the club. I’m beginning to look forward to the upcoming season because we needed a fresh approach throughout, that’s what’s started to happen, but people seem to be keen on pissing on chips so to speak.
Maybe because he was only appointed 8 weeks ago, and was meant to be part of the fresh approach
I'm not sure how anyone can be judged in that short a length of time, and if he was truly sacked for being disastrous, it doesn't reflect well on the judgement of the person who hired him
Do you know the circumstances of his departure and what was being asked of him personally from TS? If not how can anyone make a judgement without facts.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
Well I’d highlight that we have a small staff so any changes are magnified.
Hunan traits mean most of us don’t like change even if it’s ultimately for the best.
But on balance I’d say it’s better to make a decision on hiring and firing than deferring however uncomfortable that may initially be.
But it’s not clear to me if the non football appointments have been bad or just reached a natural conclusion as I said in my first post.
What’s clear is that TS is not a typical owner. He wants to be involved and frankly it’s his money so his choice. He is learning as he goes is my best guess.
I was most taken by the comments made by @pragueaddick highlighting the influence his partner showed at the international fans meeting and apparently genuinely finding common ground on issues to achieve a better outcome. That kind of sounding board and influence may offer some comfort that decisions are not knee jerk and individual.
I’m normally a pessimist by nature but on balance TS remains in credit for me for now.
I pin this mostly on being convinced appointing Curbishley over Gritt was the wrong choice so going down a different route again i.e. by changing things up may just be the way forward!
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
Fanny with respect, I don’t see why getting rid of people that are not cutting the mustard as curious!! Are we in danger of believing rumours without real substance, because even when things take a turn for the better, suddenly snippets of discontent get leaked. I dont have any contacts that are ITK, so as someone who just reads posts on here and responds with my uneducated thoughts, it comes across as very negative, almost like people have to see a bit of drama around the club. I’m beginning to look forward to the upcoming season because we needed a fresh approach throughout, that’s what’s started to happen, but people seem to be keen on pissing on chips so to speak.
But with respect you’re jumping on every single comment with even a whiff of negativity. Someone earlier merely said this isn’t positive news and your response was “yes TS is a useless wanker”, sarcastically obviously.
I personally find the balance on here towards Sandgaard quite reasonable. The Martin stuff probs went on a bit, but even the best owners make some poor decisions. When that is criticised there’s no need to go nuts about it.
I think getting rid of “people not cutting the mustard” is obviously the right decision. But surely you can see why there would be some negativity to the fact this isn’t just any employee, it’s one that Sandgaard himself hired. 2 months ago.
TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE TONY KEOHANE IS NOT A CHARLTON ATHLETIC EMPLOYEE Get it?
Still seems like it’s a bit of a shambles on the non playing side.
If Tony Keohane isn’t employed by TS, and is there solely to watch things for RD, does he still try to get involved in day to day stuff. How does it work?
Still seems like it’s a bit of a shambles on the non playing side.
If Tony Keohane isn’t employed by TS, and is there solely to watch things for RD, does he still try to get involved in day to day stuff. How does it work?
I believe he has had something to do with at least one member of staff leaving. Their job was imposed upon by the Duchatelet Employee because technically he could get himself involved.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
Well I’d highlight that we have a small staff so any changes are magnified.
Hunan traits mean most of us don’t like change even if it’s ultimately for the best.
But on balance I’d say it’s better to make a decision on hiring and firing than deferring however uncomfortable that may initially be.
But it’s not clear to me if the non football appointments have been bad or just reached a natural conclusion as I said in my first post.
What’s clear is that TS is not a typical owner. He wants to be involved and frankly it’s his money so his choice. He is learning as he goes is my best guess.
I was most taken by the comments made by @pragueaddick highlighting the influence his partner showed at the international fans meeting and apparently genuinely finding common ground on issues to achieve a better outcome. That kind of sounding board and influence may offer some comfort that decisions are not knee jerk and individual.
I’m normally a pessimist by nature but on balance TS remains in credit for me for now.
I pin this mostly on being convinced appointing Curbishley over Gritt was the wrong choice so going down a different route again i.e. by changing things up may just be the way forward!
I wonder what the response would be should you have the opportunity to ask an existing member of staff at the club what it's like to work there at this moment in time ?
Mind you, with so many exits recently, they'd probably take the 5th amendment ......
Still seems like it’s a bit of a shambles on the non playing side.
If Tony Keohane isn’t employed by TS, and is there solely to watch things for RD, does he still try to get involved in day to day stuff. How does it work?
So what does RD need someone to keep an eye on, to make sure nobody knicks a floodlight or something?
Maybe Jokat failed to meet his (agreed) business targets?
That's how it works in Sangaardworld, you know.
Us fans better up our game too ... or we'll be out.
To re-inforce @Fanny Fanackapan's point ... another incorrect Sandgaard appointment. If he's learning from his mistakes, he's putting the practice in, isn't he?
Ron Dangerfield, though, ... De Souza ... balance redressed, I'd say.
Still seems like it’s a bit of a shambles on the non playing side.
If Tony Keohane isn’t employed by TS, and is there solely to watch things for RD, does he still try to get involved in day to day stuff. How does it work?
I believe he has had something to do with at least one member of staff leaving. Their job was imposed upon by the Duchatelet Employee because technically he could get himself involved.
Surely you can’t actually believe that Sandgaard would happily allow a Roland employee to stick around interfering in the day to day running of the club? Whether that interfering is direct or indirect.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
And all the while Tony K is still in a job…
Tony K does not fall under Sandgaard's remit. He is employed by Roland to be his representative at the Valley & SL.
Why do you say Keohane is employed by RD? Where have you got this information from?
Confirmed by Cawley.
Thread title says he was sacked, do we know that’s definitely the case or is it possible he resigned? Not good either way of course.
Still seems like it’s a bit of a shambles on the non playing side.
If Tony Keohane isn’t employed by TS, and is there solely to watch things for RD, does he still try to get involved in day to day stuff. How does it work?
I believe he has had something to do with at least one member of staff leaving. Their job was imposed upon by the Duchatelet Employee because technically he could get himself involved.
Surely you can’t actually believe that Sandgaard would happily allow a Roland employee to stick around interfering in the day to day running of the club? Whether that interfering is direct or indirect.
Problem is, who knows what they’ve agreed. Not questioning TS, more the conditions that RD attached to the deal. RD is belligerent and doesn’t care to see the club do well. Can quite imagine him insisting Keohane stays and although not having an acting role, he’s been here long enough to know how the club works operationally, non footballing members of staff. I can imagine he’s probably loving the fact he only answers to TS, but is on site and able to stick his oar in. As Dazzler said, involved in one member of staff leaving indirectly, not liked as far as I can make out, but completely unaccountable in the normal sense of an employee
Still seems like it’s a bit of a shambles on the non playing side.
If Tony Keohane isn’t employed by TS, and is there solely to watch things for RD, does he still try to get involved in day to day stuff. How does it work?
I believe he has had something to do with at least one member of staff leaving. Their job was imposed upon by the Duchatelet Employee because technically he could get himself involved.
Surely you can’t actually believe that Sandgaard would happily allow a Roland employee to stick around interfering in the day to day running of the club? Whether that interfering is direct or indirect.
Problem is, who knows what they’ve agreed. Not questioning TS, more the conditions that RD attached to the deal. RD is belligerent and doesn’t care to see the club do well. Can quite imagine him insisting Keohane stays and although not having an acting role, he’s been here long enough to know how the club works operationally, non footballing members of staff. I can imagine he’s probably loving the fact he only answers to TS, but is on site and able to stick his oar in. As Dazzler said, involved in one member of staff leaving indirectly, not liked as far as I can make out, but completely unaccountable in the normal sense of an employee
I’d be gobsmacked personally, it would be highly unusual. I’d lose a lot of time for Sandgaard if he not only agreed to the deal, but then let him affect other employees.
Of course I’m not defending Keohane but how do you get rid of him? He’s got employment rights so unlike Jokat, you can’t just sack him. I mean I’d restructure and make him redundant personally. Presuming he’s employed by the club obviously.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
Fanny with respect, I don’t see why getting rid of people that are not cutting the mustard as curious!! Are we in danger of believing rumours without real substance, because even when things take a turn for the better, suddenly snippets of discontent get leaked. I dont have any contacts that are ITK, so as someone who just reads posts on here and responds with my uneducated thoughts, it comes across as very negative, almost like people have to see a bit of drama around the club. I’m beginning to look forward to the upcoming season because we needed a fresh approach throughout, that’s what’s started to happen, but people seem to be keen on pissing on chips so to speak.
Maybe because he was only appointed 8 weeks ago, and was meant to be part of the fresh approach
I'm not sure how anyone can be judged in that short a length of time, and if he was truly sacked for being disastrous, it doesn't reflect well on the judgement of the person who hired him
We don’t know the reason though. It could have been for a reason not work performance related but immediately sackable. I’m not going to speculate further on that.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
And all the while Tony K is still in a job…
Tony K does not fall under Sandgaard's remit. He is employed by Roland to be his representative at the Valley & SL.
Why do you say Keohane is employed by RD? Where have you got this information from?
In last years accounts there was an employee of the holdings company. This years accounts say its only RD and LVT, the 2 directors.
There is loads of circumstantial evidence that TK works for RD. Facts are a little bit thinner on the ground. The general rumour and innuendo is he is, its never been confirmed or dined that he is.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
And all the while Tony K is still in a job…
Tony K does not fall under Sandgaard's remit. He is employed by Roland to be his representative at the Valley & SL.
I’m not prepared to write on here what was said out of respect to Admin, I said publicly before I witnessed a staff member break down in front of me on only our second meeting. I was with my dog in an empty building and the the staff member had taken several phone calls in a few minutes where they became more distressed with each call. Anyone doubting this characters previous please don’t if anyone wants to meet me for a pint down here, I’ll invite a few friends down for a chat all used to work there they’ll tell you what stunts were pulled by this horrible individual.
Unfortunately those that still work need their jobs and are afraid of retribution, but we know how the guy works.
I had a meeting with the owner and again I’m not prepared to write here what was said, but I’ll say this other staff not attending offered to pay my travel expenses to London
With me I was told by OB it was my Therapy work that was at risk, so you can imagine what was at risk if you told tales when you worked there.
Disclaimer
Not bad @Tom-of-se9 a post without naming anyone or anything….. I’m good boy I am 😉
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
Well I’d highlight that we have a small staff so any changes are magnified.
Hunan traits mean most of us don’t like change even if it’s ultimately for the best.
But on balance I’d say it’s better to make a decision on hiring and firing than deferring however uncomfortable that may initially be.
But it’s not clear to me if the non football appointments have been bad or just reached a natural conclusion as I said in my first post.
What’s clear is that TS is not a typical owner. He wants to be involved and frankly it’s his money so his choice. He is learning as he goes is my best guess.
I was most taken by the comments made by @pragueaddick highlighting the influence his partner showed at the international fans meeting and apparently genuinely finding common ground on issues to achieve a better outcome. That kind of sounding board and influence may offer some comfort that decisions are not knee jerk and individual.
I’m normally a pessimist by nature but on balance TS remains in credit for me for now.
I pin this mostly on being convinced appointing Curbishley over Gritt was the wrong choice so going down a different route again i.e. by changing things up may just be the way forward!
I wonder what the response would be should you have the opportunity to ask an existing member of staff at the club what it's like to work there at this moment in time ?
Mind you, with so many exits recently, they'd probably take the 5th amendment ......
Do we have to wait for the final edition of VoTV before we find out what's supposedly rotten in the state of Denmark? As I don't know any Club employees, I take hints of a culture of discontent with a pinch of salt.
I have no idea how many employees are unhappy, but I do know they're more likely to be the ones making their views known to the wider world, unless TS is trying to stop information being leaked by the Club, and I have no objection to him doing that BTW if it's in the best interests of the Club.
New employee doesn’t pass probationary period. Nothing new is it?
For a c-suite role you would expect probation to be at least 6 months. It will be almost impossible to get rid before then unless it is gross misconduct or a mutual decision.
Why? Do C-Suite roles have more protection/rights than other roles?
if anything it’s better to bin them nice and early (I’ve seen it happen a a lot).
It does call into question the selection and interviewing methods though…
No but they will have much longer probation periods. A junior member of staff could be out the door in a month - and even then (regardless of seniority) it is bloody hard to fire someone nowadays. So a job that is hard for a senior or junior staff member is twice as hard again if they are on a 6 month probation.
Simply not true. Probation periods are only likely to affect the notice that an employer has to give the employee. There are no employment rights until someone has been employed for 2 years, whether they are COO or make the tea.
That’s not how it has worked in my places. My last role before setting up on my own - as a CSO of a Global sports agency, I was on a 12 month probation. At any point in that period if I wasn’t meeting targets they could fuck me off….. all the junior hires were on 3 months and HR always said if you are not sure on them don’t wait until after the 3 months are up
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
And all the while Tony K is still in a job…
Tony K does not fall under Sandgaard's remit. He is employed by Roland to be his representative at the Valley & SL.
I’ve heard this suggested by a number of different people and for the best will of the world, I can’t believe it’s anything other than fantasy. If you, or anyone has any actual evidence to prove otherwise I’d love to hear it. Till then my belief is that Keohane remains employed by Charlton because TS is happy with the role he serves, whether the vast majority of us like it or not.
New employee doesn’t pass probationary period. Nothing new is it?
For a c-suite role you would expect probation to be at least 6 months. It will be almost impossible to get rid before then unless it is gross misconduct or a mutual decision.
Why? Do C-Suite roles have more protection/rights than other roles?
if anything it’s better to bin them nice and early (I’ve seen it happen a a lot).
It does call into question the selection and interviewing methods though…
No but they will have much longer probation periods. A junior member of staff could be out the door in a month - and even then (regardless of seniority) it is bloody hard to fire someone nowadays. So a job that is hard for a senior or junior staff member is twice as hard again if they are on a 6 month probation.
Simply not true. Probation periods are only likely to affect the notice that an employer has to give the employee. There are no employment rights until someone has been employed for 2 years, whether they are COO or make the tea.
That’s not how it has worked in my places. My last role before setting up on my own - as a CSO of a Global sports agency, I was on a 12 month probation. At any point in that period if I wasn’t meeting targets they could fuck me off….. all the junior hires were on 3 months and HR always said if you are not sure on them don’t wait until after the 3 months are up
Fair enough. I mean company policy and the employment contract play a part. But ultimately, even if you pass probation, you still can’t do anything about being dismissed until you’ve been in the role for 2 years. In your example about being fucked off for not hitting targets, they could just as easily fuck you off if you were meeting targets. Of course there are certain protected rights such as discrimination, whistleblowing etc but generally employees have to suck it up.
I’d imagine HR advised you not to wait until about the probation purely because it costs you more to get rid of them. We have to give employees one weeks notice in their probation period but one month once they’ve passed it.
Lots of speculation here without anyone seemingly knowing many facts.
Far better to let staff go if they aren’t working out and then re group.
I don’t really see it (from the outside) as automatically a reflection of TS.
Bowyer chose to go and Adkins had to go. Jackson was a positive choice by TS to get rid. But on the football side this is hardly unique. A clean sweep is really overdue.
As to the non football side I assume Roddy was seen as a temporary consultant and not an ongoing role. Mumford may well have chosen to go of his own accord. Jockat we just don’t know but it’s early enough to cut any losses and reappoint someone.
Hmmm.
Sounds as though you're trying very hard to make excuses for, what is now, 3 senior management departures in a very short space of time.
And making a rather poor attempt !
By contrast I could say you are trying to see a negative in TS because he decided against JJ
But I’m not trying to score points just offer an alternate view.
My point was it’s not an automatic issue when no one has yet disclosed any facts about Jockat.
Of course if we learn more facts then I can change my opinion / view but I have zero inside knowledge to base my suggestion on.
Moreover I’d suggest ‘hire and fire’ is a more US trait then we are used to
I respect your opinion but this has nothing to do with JJ's departure.
Yes, it was a shock & IMO, a despicable, cowardly way was used.
But, that's water under the bridge although I shall be more than a tad interested in the fortunes of AFC W next season.
I find it difficult to understand though why 3 senior management appointees made by our owner, have since departed after a relatively short period in which to prove themselves. As to the reasons why, like yourself, I am in the dark.
But what does this say about the recruitment process being used at our club ? Are you confident that TS will learn by his mistakes or continue in the same vein until he finds the "right" person for each role ? And, does it not concern you that, apart from the instability created within the SMT( and presumably the staff members reporting to them) , this increases the amount of cash wasted in the process, which he can seemingly ill afford ?
It has been strongly rumoured that TS is determined to be a new broom....to "get rid" of existing staff in situ when he purchased our club. But this could surely be a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater .....
And, it's not just existing staff he's now dispensing with but his OWN appointees.
Curiouser & curiouser as Alice said.
And all the while Tony K is still in a job…
Tony K does not fall under Sandgaard's remit. He is employed by Roland to be his representative at the Valley & SL.
I’ve heard this suggested by a number of different people and for the best will of the world, I can’t believe it’s anything other than fantasy. If you, or anyone has any actual evidence to prove otherwise I’d love to hear it. Till then my belief is that Keohane remains employed by Charlton because TS is happy with the role he serves, whether the vast majority of us like it or not.
Agreed, that and the fact he’s been here 2+ years so you can’t just sack him.
One things for sure @AFKABartram if anyone else did what is reported about that man they would be following jokat up the road. The first time @Dazzler21 comment was said to me I was of the same opinion as you , so far fetched it’s unbelievable. But the more he gets away with the more believable it becomes and I’m still not convinced.
But if I sat in front of your boss along your colleagues and reported you for b******* backed up by your colleagues you’d expect a written warning, if this was followed up with four more colleagues stating you’d did the same to them including one naming you in a leaving interview would you expect to be allowed at your desk tomorrow? That is why it being queried how he still got a job.
Comments
I pin this mostly on being convinced appointing Curbishley over Gritt was the wrong choice so going down a different route again i.e. by changing things up may just be the way forward!
I personally find the balance on here towards Sandgaard quite reasonable. The Martin stuff probs went on a bit, but even the best owners make some poor decisions. When that is criticised there’s no need to go nuts about it.
Mind you, with so many exits recently, they'd probably take the 5th amendment ......
That's how it works in Sangaardworld, you know.
Us fans better up our game too ... or we'll be out.
To re-inforce @Fanny Fanackapan's point ... another incorrect Sandgaard appointment. If he's learning from his mistakes, he's putting the practice in, isn't he?
Ron Dangerfield, though, ... De Souza ... balance redressed, I'd say.
Where have you got this information from?
There is loads of circumstantial evidence that TK works for RD. Facts are a little bit thinner on the ground. The general rumour and innuendo is he is, its never been confirmed or dined that he is.
I said publicly before I witnessed a staff member break down in front of me on only our second meeting. I was with my dog in an empty building and the the staff member had taken several phone calls in a few minutes where they became more distressed with each call. Anyone doubting this characters previous please don’t if anyone wants to meet me for a pint down here, I’ll invite a few friends down for a chat all used to work there they’ll tell you what stunts were pulled by this horrible individual.
I’m good boy I am 😉
I have no idea how many employees are unhappy, but I do know they're more likely to be the ones making their views known to the wider world, unless TS is trying to stop information being leaked by the Club, and I have no objection to him doing that BTW if it's in the best interests of the Club.
That is why it being queried how he still got a job.