IMHO Washington is our best striker by a country mile, we just don't play to his strengths. He makes run after run along the line but we don't often play it around the back. I think he'll go elsewhere on his own accord.
Good luck to Watson Gunter & Souare (I must admit I'd forgotten about him). Watson had a good career, we just had him about 4 years too late and held onto him a year too long (I'll never forgive keeping him and not Pratley!). Gunter has been a but underwhelming but you don't play that many games for your country unless you have something about you.
A huge clear out and recruitment drive is needed, but I'm not confident we'll get either right.
Watson triggered an extension to his contract rather than him being picked out of him and Pratley but I do share your frustration that Watson staying likely decided the fate of Pratley.
It's a good start. I can't help but feel those 3 have had negative impact on this squad, by their clear lack of effort. I think they've felt this club has just been a cash cow before they retire, because they should of been far better than what they've performed.
The more and more I read and think about this subject, the more I conclude that the system is the greatest problem.
I'd be happy for example with Purrington as number one LB and Clare as CM in a 442.
Why do we insist on making a simple task complicated?
Rotherham and MK Dons play with a back 3, the system isn’t the problem. This squad would be mid table whatever formation we play - we lack goalscorers across the team, we have too many average L1 players (how many are we worried about losing this summer?) and our defending is inconsistent.
Very few clubs play a flat 4-4-2 and most players would have come through an academy playing 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or a diamond.
All formations have weaknesses, in a 4-4-2 we’d be outnumbered in the middle almost every game as most clubs play 3 man central midfields.
I just hope we have now stopped with the Gallen/Freedman friendship which has bought us knackered, expensive waste of a squad place players galore. Every summer we get someone from that club and without fail they are all bad signings.
Couple of comments from elsewhere. I think written entirely seriously.
"Chris Gunter did a good job when he played for us but sadly at the end of his career."
"Both Gunter and Watson have given of their best. Okay, maybe we need some younger blood now, but that is no reason to be so dismissive of their good service. Wish them well and say thank you."
The more and more I read and think about this subject, the more I conclude that the system is the greatest problem.
I'd be happy for example with Purrington as number one LB and Clare as CM in a 442.
Why do we insist on making a simple task complicated?
Rotherham and MK Dons play with a back 3, the system isn’t the problem. This squad would be mid table whatever formation we play - we lack goalscorers across the team, we have too many average L1 players (how many are we worried about losing this summer?) and our defending is inconsistent.
Very few clubs play a flat 4-4-2 and most players would have come through an academy playing 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or a diamond.
All formations have weaknesses, in a 4-4-2 we’d be outnumbered in the middle almost every game as most clubs play 3 man central midfields.
You don't have to play 442 with 2 wingers though. If on one side the wide player tucks in, you have your 3rd midfielder. Or play a 442 diamond which also has 3 in midfield behind a more advanced player
IMHO Washington is our best striker by a country mile, we just don't play to his strengths. He makes run after run along the line but we don't often play it around the back. I think he'll go elsewhere on his own accord.
Good luck to Watson Gunter & Souare (I must admit I'd forgotten about him). Watson had a good career, we just had him about 4 years too late and held onto him a year too long (I'll never forgive keeping him and not Pratley!). Gunter has been a but underwhelming but you don't play that many games for your country unless you have something about you.
A huge clear out and recruitment drive is needed, but I'm not confident we'll get either right.
Watson triggered an extension to his contract rather than him being picked out of him and Pratley but I do share your frustration that Watson staying likely decided the fate of Pratley.
Agree, not suggesting for one minute we'd have been in the play off's with Pratley, but I'd confidently suggest we'd be higher up the table with him than we are, very important around the dressing room as well, to me he was our biggest loss this year.
The more and more I read and think about this subject, the more I conclude that the system is the greatest problem.
I'd be happy for example with Purrington as number one LB and Clare as CM in a 442.
Why do we insist on making a simple task complicated?
Rotherham and MK Dons play with a back 3, the system isn’t the problem. This squad would be mid table whatever formation we play - we lack goalscorers across the team, we have too many average L1 players (how many are we worried about losing this summer?) and our defending is inconsistent.
Very few clubs play a flat 4-4-2 and most players would have come through an academy playing 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or a diamond.
All formations have weaknesses, in a 4-4-2 we’d be outnumbered in the middle almost every game as most clubs play 3 man central midfields.
Also we have just spent money on Fraser who doesn’t fit a 2 man midfield. 4-4-2 is not the way to go. Stockley and Washington are both much better in a 2 so 3-5-2 is a good option to get the best out of them and Fraser next season. Just need to sort out the outside CB and wing back positions, CBT is all we have that I’m happy with in those positions
I think we should moving Clare up to CM. As good as he has been there has been time where we have cried for an out & out CB. Plus the energy he brings and the way he carries the ball would be a major asset.
Why can't Clare be the Right wing back as he does have pace ? As long as he is in the team he won't mind where he plays and he has more pace than Matthews. Sean Clare is a tad erratic but all our players are I guess that's why their in League 1.
He played well at RCB but he loves to charge forward and that's why we do get hit on the break if the wing back and the RCB is upfield.
Would it not be better to play players in the preferred/strongest positions? He makes good cover sure but if you give me the choice of Gilbey or Clare starting in CM, I'd pick Clare.
If we had 3 legit CBs along with the wings backs and Dobbo in front, I'd feel alot better defensively.
I think Famewo fits that but Innis doesn't. Pearce is good cover and reliable. We need at least 2 CBs with Elerewe getting more game time.
The more and more I read and think about this subject, the more I conclude that the system is the greatest problem.
I'd be happy for example with Purrington as number one LB and Clare as CM in a 442.
Why do we insist on making a simple task complicated?
Rotherham and MK Dons play with a back 3, the system isn’t the problem. This squad would be mid table whatever formation we play - we lack goalscorers across the team, we have too many average L1 players (how many are we worried about losing this summer?) and our defending is inconsistent.
Very few clubs play a flat 4-4-2 and most players would have come through an academy playing 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or a diamond.
All formations have weaknesses, in a 4-4-2 we’d be outnumbered in the middle almost every game as most clubs play 3 man central midfields.
You don't have to play 442 with 2 wingers though. If on one side the wide player tucks in, you have your 3rd midfielder. Or play a 442 diamond which also has 3 in midfield behind a more advanced player
A diamond is an option but I’m sure that’s not what jimmymelrose was suggesting.
Why do we need to play 4-4-2 with a CM out wide? It’s not anymore likely to achieve promotion than 3-5-2.
I just hope we have now stopped with the Gallen/Freedman friendship which has bought us knackered, expensive waste of a squad place players galore. Every summer we get someone from that club and without fail they are all bad signings.
Spot on, sure they may have quality , but they spend more time on the treatment table, than on the pitch which continually holds us back.
The more and more I read and think about this subject, the more I conclude that the system is the greatest problem.
I'd be happy for example with Purrington as number one LB and Clare as CM in a 442.
Why do we insist on making a simple task complicated?
Rotherham and MK Dons play with a back 3, the system isn’t the problem. This squad would be mid table whatever formation we play - we lack goalscorers across the team, we have too many average L1 players (how many are we worried about losing this summer?) and our defending is inconsistent.
Very few clubs play a flat 4-4-2 and most players would have come through an academy playing 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or a diamond.
All formations have weaknesses, in a 4-4-2 we’d be outnumbered in the middle almost every game as most clubs play 3 man central midfields.
You don't have to play 442 with 2 wingers though. If on one side the wide player tucks in, you have your 3rd midfielder. Or play a 442 diamond which also has 3 in midfield behind a more advanced player
A diamond is an option but I’m sure that’s not what jimmymelrose was suggesting.
Why do we need to play 4-4-2 with a CM out wide? It’s not anymore likely to achieve promotion than 3-5-2.
That's exactly what Powell and Curbishley did in our title winning seasons. Not that that means it would work in league one in 2023.
For the 442 with a CM on one side and a winger on the other to work, you need to have imbalanced full backs too, with a steady, solid full back (Solly) playing behind the attacking winger (Wagstaff) and a more marauding full back (Wiggins) playing behind the CM style player (Jackson)
So for us it would be someone like Purrington behind CBT and on the other side an attacking full back behind someone like Gilbey or Fraser
The more and more I read and think about this subject, the more I conclude that the system is the greatest problem.
I'd be happy for example with Purrington as number one LB and Clare as CM in a 442.
Why do we insist on making a simple task complicated?
Rotherham and MK Dons play with a back 3, the system isn’t the problem. This squad would be mid table whatever formation we play - we lack goalscorers across the team, we have too many average L1 players (how many are we worried about losing this summer?) and our defending is inconsistent.
Very few clubs play a flat 4-4-2 and most players would have come through an academy playing 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or a diamond.
All formations have weaknesses, in a 4-4-2 we’d be outnumbered in the middle almost every game as most clubs play 3 man central midfields.
You don't have to play 442 with 2 wingers though. If on one side the wide player tucks in, you have your 3rd midfielder. Or play a 442 diamond which also has 3 in midfield behind a more advanced player
A diamond is an option but I’m sure that’s not what jimmymelrose was suggesting.
Why do we need to play 4-4-2 with a CM out wide? It’s not anymore likely to achieve promotion than 3-5-2.
That's exactly what Powell and Curbishley did in our title winning seasons. Not that that means it would work in league one in 2023.
They did but as you say that’s what worked at the time and going back to it isn’t the only way, as we saw under Bowyer. Back then football in general at our level was more direct and teams often played 4-4-2 or maybe defensive 4-5-1 if they tried to stop us playing.
IMHO Washington is our best striker by a country mile, we just don't play to his strengths. He makes run after run along the line but we don't often play it around the back. I think he'll go elsewhere on his own accord.
Good luck to Watson Gunter & Souare (I must admit I'd forgotten about him). Watson had a good career, we just had him about 4 years too late and held onto him a year too long (I'll never forgive keeping him and not Pratley!). Gunter has been a but underwhelming but you don't play that many games for your country unless you have something about you.
A huge clear out and recruitment drive is needed, but I'm not confident we'll get either right.
Sadly, I think you may be right and Washington will be off. He will be hard to replace and in my opinion it will be a huge mistake if we let him go. He would be the second name on my team sheet after Dobson.
I also share your lack of confidence in getting the recruitment right this Summer. I don't think there will be the huge clear out that we hope for, and that we will see many of the same old faces again next season. I hope I am wrong!
Do we really want to give JFC a new contract? I know he is good on his day, but he plays 1 game a season!
I think it will need a very careful assessment of his fitness. When fit he is our best creative midfield player. If there are doubts about his fitness then it will be a huge gamble to offer him another year, but a gamble I would probably take.
It is about time we stop recruiting injury-prone players, even if they are cheaper. The gamble never seems to work.
This is a very encouraging start. Some would argue obvious, but all sorts of bamboozling choices have been made in the past, so good to see some of the dead wood cut adrift early and decisively. I am sat here thinking how rude it would be not to say thank you, but just do not think it is justified unfortunately.
This is a very encouraging start. Some would argue obvious, but all sorts of bamboozling choices have been made in the past, so good to see some of the dead wood cut adrift early and decisively. I am sat here thinking how rude it would be not to say thank you, but just do not think it is justified unfortunately.
I know what you’re saying, but I don’t think any players want to be cut adrift. Even though some might appear to be coasting, sometimes that’s just their style of play.
Whether they’re good enough is a different matter. I wish them well, regardless.
I think we should moving Clare up to CM. As good as he has been there has been time where we have cried for an out & out CB. Plus the energy he brings and the way he carries the ball would be a major asset.
Why can't Clare be the Right wing back as he does have pace ? As long as he is in the team he won't mind where he plays and he has more pace than Matthews. Sean Clare is a tad erratic but all our players are I guess that's why their in League 1.
He played well at RCB but he loves to charge forward and that's why we do get hit on the break if the wing back and the RCB is upfield.
Karl Robinson signed him with the intention of converting him to RWB but it didn't work out. Clare became unhappy playing in that position and was loaned out to Burton. When he came back, he made it clear that he wanted to compete for the central midfield role and not be a RWB. That lead to him coming to us. So I don't think he wants to play there.
I don't think that is correct about Robinson. He rarely plays wing backs. As we know only too well he is wedded to his beloved 4231.
I think the issue with Clare at Oxford was they wanted him to play right full back and he didn't. But if he had of been told come to Charlton and you'll play right centre back I doubt he would have come either. My guess is he enjoys the licence to get forwards that JJ clearly allows him as he is by no means performing as a central defender in the traditional sense.
So I agree with Sam above, he'd be worth a try at right wing back and It wouldn't be vastly different to the role he is playing now.
I think we should moving Clare up to CM. As good as he has been there has been time where we have cried for an out & out CB. Plus the energy he brings and the way he carries the ball would be a major asset.
Why can't Clare be the Right wing back as he does have pace ? As long as he is in the team he won't mind where he plays and he has more pace than Matthews. Sean Clare is a tad erratic but all our players are I guess that's why their in League 1.
He played well at RCB but he loves to charge forward and that's why we do get hit on the break if the wing back and the RCB is upfield.
Karl Robinson signed him with the intention of converting him to RWB but it didn't work out. Clare became unhappy playing in that position and was loaned out to Burton. When he came back, he made it clear that he wanted to compete for the central midfield role and not be a RWB. That lead to him coming to us. So I don't think he wants to play there.
I don't think that is correct about Robinson. He rarely plays wing backs. As we know only too well he is wedded to his beloved 4231.
I think the issue with Clare at Oxford was they wanted him to play right full back and he didn't. But if he had of been told come to Charlton and you'll play right centre back I doubt he would have come either. My guess is he enjoys the licence to get forwards that JJ clearly allows him as he is by no means performing as a central defender in the traditional sense.
So I agree with Sam above, he'd be worth a try at right wing back and It wouldn't be vastly different to the role he is playing now.
Oxford have been playing 3 at the back this season so maybe that was a consideration? Clare wouldn't get into Oxford's team as a center mid, he shouldn't get in ours either.
I think we should moving Clare up to CM. As good as he has been there has been time where we have cried for an out & out CB. Plus the energy he brings and the way he carries the ball would be a major asset.
Why can't Clare be the Right wing back as he does have pace ? As long as he is in the team he won't mind where he plays and he has more pace than Matthews. Sean Clare is a tad erratic but all our players are I guess that's why their in League 1.
He played well at RCB but he loves to charge forward and that's why we do get hit on the break if the wing back and the RCB is upfield.
Karl Robinson signed him with the intention of converting him to RWB but it didn't work out. Clare became unhappy playing in that position and was loaned out to Burton. When he came back, he made it clear that he wanted to compete for the central midfield role and not be a RWB. That lead to him coming to us. So I don't think he wants to play there.
I don't think that is correct about Robinson. He rarely plays wing backs. As we know only too well he is wedded to his beloved 4231.
I think the issue with Clare at Oxford was they wanted him to play right full back and he didn't. But if he had of been told come to Charlton and you'll play right centre back I doubt he would have come either. My guess is he enjoys the licence to get forwards that JJ clearly allows him as he is by no means performing as a central defender in the traditional sense.
So I agree with Sam above, he'd be worth a try at right wing back and It wouldn't be vastly different to the role he is playing now.
You're right, Robinson tried to convert him to an attacking RB. I think I'd read he saw him as a possible Trent Alexander-Arnold type. He wasn't very good out wide according out Oxford fans and perhaps why he didn't enjoy it. He looks more comfortable at RCB as it is still somewhat centralised.
I can't imagine why he'd be happy to play RWB having failed as an attacking RB. It's mostly the same skillset.
I think we should moving Clare up to CM. As good as he has been there has been time where we have cried for an out & out CB. Plus the energy he brings and the way he carries the ball would be a major asset.
Why can't Clare be the Right wing back as he does have pace ? As long as he is in the team he won't mind where he plays and he has more pace than Matthews. Sean Clare is a tad erratic but all our players are I guess that's why their in League 1.
He played well at RCB but he loves to charge forward and that's why we do get hit on the break if the wing back and the RCB is upfield.
Karl Robinson signed him with the intention of converting him to RWB but it didn't work out. Clare became unhappy playing in that position and was loaned out to Burton. When he came back, he made it clear that he wanted to compete for the central midfield role and not be a RWB. That lead to him coming to us. So I don't think he wants to play there.
I don't think that is correct about Robinson. He rarely plays wing backs. As we know only too well he is wedded to his beloved 4231.
I think the issue with Clare at Oxford was they wanted him to play right full back and he didn't. But if he had of been told come to Charlton and you'll play right centre back I doubt he would have come either. My guess is he enjoys the licence to get forwards that JJ clearly allows him as he is by no means performing as a central defender in the traditional sense.
So I agree with Sam above, he'd be worth a try at right wing back and It wouldn't be vastly different to the role he is playing now.
You're right, Robinson tried to convert him to an attacking RB. I think I'd read he saw him as a possible Trent Alexander-Arnold type. He wasn't very good out wide according out Oxford fans and perhaps why he didn't enjoy it. He looks more comfortable at RCB as it is still somewhat centralised.
I can't imagine why he'd be happy to play RWB having failed as an attacking RB. It's mostly the same skillset.
I can see why Robinson might have thought he'd be a decent TAA style right back, as his athleticism is one of his strengths
At RCB he's playing on the right anyway, indeed he's sometimes swaps positions with Matthews, with Matthews covering as he goes forward down the right
I think we should moving Clare up to CM. As good as he has been there has been time where we have cried for an out & out CB. Plus the energy he brings and the way he carries the ball would be a major asset.
Why can't Clare be the Right wing back as he does have pace ? As long as he is in the team he won't mind where he plays and he has more pace than Matthews. Sean Clare is a tad erratic but all our players are I guess that's why their in League 1.
He played well at RCB but he loves to charge forward and that's why we do get hit on the break if the wing back and the RCB is upfield.
Karl Robinson signed him with the intention of converting him to RWB but it didn't work out. Clare became unhappy playing in that position and was loaned out to Burton. When he came back, he made it clear that he wanted to compete for the central midfield role and not be a RWB. That lead to him coming to us. So I don't think he wants to play there.
I don't think that is correct about Robinson. He rarely plays wing backs. As we know only too well he is wedded to his beloved 4231.
I think the issue with Clare at Oxford was they wanted him to play right full back and he didn't. But if he had of been told come to Charlton and you'll play right centre back I doubt he would have come either. My guess is he enjoys the licence to get forwards that JJ clearly allows him as he is by no means performing as a central defender in the traditional sense.
So I agree with Sam above, he'd be worth a try at right wing back and It wouldn't be vastly different to the role he is playing now.
You're right, Robinson tried to convert him to an attacking RB. I think I'd read he saw him as a possible Trent Alexander-Arnold type. He wasn't very good out wide according out Oxford fans and perhaps why he didn't enjoy it. He looks more comfortable at RCB as it is still somewhat centralised.
I can't imagine why he'd be happy to play RWB having failed as an attacking RB. It's mostly the same skillset.
I can see why Robinson might have thought he'd be a decent TAA style right back, as his athleticism is one of his strengths
At RCB he's playing on the right anyway, indeed he's sometimes swaps positions with Matthews, with Matthews covering as he goes forward down the right
Yeah but you would have to agree that RCB and RWB are different, even if he does foray forward occasionally. At RWB he would be hugging the touchline and whipping in crosses. Like I say, he's played in a similar position and disliked it so much that he left the club.
Comments
Very few clubs play a flat 4-4-2 and most players would have come through an academy playing 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or a diamond.
All formations have weaknesses, in a 4-4-2 we’d be outnumbered in the middle almost every game as most clubs play 3 man central midfields.
Henderson
Pearce
Purrington
Matthews
Inniss
"Chris Gunter did a good job when he played for us but sadly at the end of his career."
"Both Gunter and Watson have given of their best. Okay, maybe we need some younger blood now, but that is no reason to be so dismissive of their good service. Wish them well and say thank you."
If we had 3 legit CBs along with the wings backs and Dobbo in front, I'd feel alot better defensively.
I think Famewo fits that but Innis doesn't. Pearce is good cover and reliable. We need at least 2 CBs with Elerewe getting more game time.
Why do we need to play 4-4-2 with a CM out wide? It’s not anymore likely to achieve promotion than 3-5-2.
So for us it would be someone like Purrington behind CBT and on the other side an attacking full back behind someone like Gilbey or Fraser
I also share your lack of confidence in getting the recruitment right this Summer. I don't think there will be the huge clear out that we hope for, and that we will see many of the same old faces again next season. I hope I am wrong!
It is about time we stop recruiting injury-prone players, even if they are cheaper. The gamble never seems to work.
I think the issue with Clare at Oxford was they wanted him to play right full back and he didn't. But if he had of been told come to Charlton and you'll play right centre back I doubt he would have come either. My guess is he enjoys the licence to get forwards that JJ clearly allows him as he is by no means performing as a central defender in the traditional sense.
So I agree with Sam above, he'd be worth a try at right wing back and It wouldn't be vastly different to the role he is playing now.
I can't imagine why he'd be happy to play RWB having failed as an attacking RB. It's mostly the same skillset.
At RCB he's playing on the right anyway, indeed he's sometimes swaps positions with Matthews, with Matthews covering as he goes forward down the right