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Next manager - Ben Garner confirmed (p256)
Comments
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Mendonca In Asdas said:
????barstool said:Jason Pearce will be saying on as a new coach and has a new roleWhere did you hear that one?
Can't say but 100% confirmed1 -
I decided to watch it hoping to confirm the possession based style of play that the statistics that have been posted seemed to demonstrate. Obviously highlights of one game doesn’t prove anything one way or the other. But I was disappointed to not see a dominating passing possession based style of play. I have never heard of Ben Garner or watched any matches involving teams he was managing.cafcfan1990 said:
You could have just looked at the stats for thatRed_in_SE8 said:Just watched the highlights of the Port Vale v Swindon second leg play off match. I thought Port Vale completely dominated both possession and attempts on goal.
Interestingly, you are wrong, Swindon had slightly more possession (54%). They had 3 shots on goal less, but did only have one shot on target. In fairness to Garner, unless he was also playing in attack I'm not entirely sure that's completely his fault.1 -
Gary Cotterill is outside the Marriott, Bexleyheath1
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Leuth said:
This doesn't even scan.Henry Irving said:
I think "Super Ben's Red and White Army" is betterSouthendaddick said:And now we’ve got Ben Garner we’re f ing dynamite
The song can return 🕺You know that I'm the first to critique poor scansion in songs people suggest, but given the abuse the first few syllables have been subjected to in previous iterations (either horribly drawn out or squished together depending on whose Red and White Army we're celebrating) I wouldn't say that it's worth exercising yourself over.Personally I'm hoping for a revival of "he's got no hair but we don't care", but fear we'd have to start calling him Benny G to get it to scan.0 -
I haven't seen one HMS Piss the league picture. I haven't seen anyone say he WILL get us promoted either, but if it gives you something to moan about, good for you.jimmymelrose said:I love it how on here everyone tries so desperately to find arguments why this is a good appointment.
He obviously was down Sandgaard's list. People have argued with me that TS wanted someone else other than Jackson all along, and he knew who he wanted.
I still believe that he sacked Jackson with no clear idea of whether his preferred man (if indeed he had one) would take the job. Then his first couple of managerial choices turned the job down because they can see how he is an owner who will insist on all out attack all the time, and buys players he finds exciting. A new Charlton manager has to be someone who will jump at the chance of managing in League Once regardless of doubts about the management of the club. That why we've got this bloke. Swindon had most shots, most goals etc but lost in the play- off semi finals. We'll probably just lose 4-3 or 5-4 now instead of 2-1.
But still Charlton fans on here think we'll get promotion. I think that you are wearing rose tinted spectacles. This idea of doing well now is based upon what? Last season we did well to get out of the relegation zone and into mid table obscurity. Since then we've lost one of our best three players, not to mention a manager with a better League One record than this guy. Whatever players we get in will be more TS's or MS's choice, or players from the youth team.
I struggle to see any real argument for hope of good times other than losing high scoring games instead of low scoring games.
The guy is a brilliant coach, like Beale, who is highly respected for his coaching in the game. He has had two, short spells as a manager, in far from ideal situations. Failed in one, relatively successful in the other. Will he be a good manager for us? I don't know, you don't know but even golfie found a silver lining.9 -
Busking ?shirty5 said:Gary Cotterill is outside the Marriott, Bexleyheath2 -
Just read some highlights of Virgil, Ovid and Catullus. It scans, but so what? Their word order is hopeless. Garner will never have a chant of his own1
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We are not interviewing other managers, I don't think he (TS) realised the sort of response he would get by this appointment. He has been lucky when, with Adkins he went on a run, then the players chucked under the bus, as it was the same players who got Jackson the job. He drags his heels with that appointment, and this one had to be the right one and make a statement to back up his hype and where we will be in five years.
IMO and this is only my opinion once again he has failed to do this, and it is clear that MS has been pivotal in all of this with his so called data input.
The backlash is short term as well as long term, the next appointment has to be one that will want fans to buy season tickets, buy merchandise, etc. The new appointment also has to be one that the players want to play under, and the current squad feel that he can improve them as individuals as well as a team.
The long term is that we will once again start the season as we did last year, although as stated by TS they are going to learn from their recruitment last year, new manager half through the season and another year in league one , gates dwindle, we will not be able to attract and afford the players that would get us promotion, so TS has to get it right and not go on his sons stats,
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have @golfaddick and @jimmymelrose morphed into one?3
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So Garner it is, more quality candidates my arse (Not shooting the messenger)ButtleJR said:Garner is still being considered. But is up against a lot more quality candidates. Doesn't mean he won't get the job, just passing on what I'm being told...2 -
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All the non-season ticket holders on threatening to return their season tickets on Twitter is making my skin crawl.
We, as a fanbase seriously need humbling
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Probably me but I don’t really get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that the way Garner has been received on football forums has stopped TS from pushing ahead with the appointment at least for now ?WhenIwasLittleBoy said:We are not interviewing other managers, I don't think he (TS) realised the sort of response he would get by this appointment. He has been lucky when, with Adkins he went on a run, then the players chucked under the bus, as it was the same players who got Jackson the job. He drags his heels with that appointment, and this one had to be the right one and make a statement to back up his hype and where we will be in five years.
IMO and this is only my opinion once again he has failed to do this, and it is clear that MS has been pivotal in all of this with his so called data input.
The backlash is short term as well as long term, the next appointment has to be one that will want fans to buy season tickets, buy merchandise, etc. The new appointment also has to be one that the players want to play under, and the current squad feel that he can improve them as individuals as well as a team.
The long term is that we will once again start the season as we did last year, although as stated by TS they are going to learn from their recruitment last year, new manager half through the season and another year in league one , gates dwindle, we will not be able to attract and afford the players that would get us promotion, so TS has to get it right and not go on his sons stats,0 -
Probably not but the Sandgaard’s do read the forumsShootersHillGuru said:
Probably me but I don’t really get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that the way Garner has been received on football forums has stopped TS from pushing ahead with the appointment at least for now ?WhenIwasLittleBoy said:We are not interviewing other managers, I don't think he (TS) realised the sort of response he would get by this appointment. He has been lucky when, with Adkins he went on a run, then the players chucked under the bus, as it was the same players who got Jackson the job. He drags his heels with that appointment, and this one had to be the right one and make a statement to back up his hype and where we will be in five years.
IMO and this is only my opinion once again he has failed to do this, and it is clear that MS has been pivotal in all of this with his so called data input.
The backlash is short term as well as long term, the next appointment has to be one that will want fans to buy season tickets, buy merchandise, etc. The new appointment also has to be one that the players want to play under, and the current squad feel that he can improve them as individuals as well as a team.
The long term is that we will once again start the season as we did last year, although as stated by TS they are going to learn from their recruitment last year, new manager half through the season and another year in league one , gates dwindle, we will not be able to attract and afford the players that would get us promotion, so TS has to get it right and not go on his sons stats,1 -
Not just you. I cannot decipher this so called data input of letters either.ShootersHillGuru said:
Probably me but I don’t really get what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that the way Garner has been received on football forums has stopped TS from pushing ahead with the appointment at least for now ?WhenIwasLittleBoy said:We are not interviewing other managers, I don't think he (TS) realised the sort of response he would get by this appointment. He has been lucky when, with Adkins he went on a run, then the players chucked under the bus, as it was the same players who got Jackson the job. He drags his heels with that appointment, and this one had to be the right one and make a statement to back up his hype and where we will be in five years.
IMO and this is only my opinion once again he has failed to do this, and it is clear that MS has been pivotal in all of this with his so called data input.
The backlash is short term as well as long term, the next appointment has to be one that will want fans to buy season tickets, buy merchandise, etc. The new appointment also has to be one that the players want to play under, and the current squad feel that he can improve them as individuals as well as a team.
The long term is that we will once again start the season as we did last year, although as stated by TS they are going to learn from their recruitment last year, new manager half through the season and another year in league one , gates dwindle, we will not be able to attract and afford the players that would get us promotion, so TS has to get it right and not go on his sons stats,1 -
Thanks for posting @Scoham
I enjoy knowing football coaches Journey and what makes them tick and the variety of managers that Ben has worked for is amazing. Defensive managers (Pulis) and more attack minded managers. Even coached in India.
My choice was either Warburton as a senior experienced manager or Micheal Beale or similar as the 40ish age coach who wants to be number 1 or has been a number 1 in the lower divisions.
Ben Garner is a step ahead of Beale as he had taken that leap already. Good luck to Michael Beale if he goes from being assistant coach at Villa to be the man who makes the calls in the game at QPR as there's no hiding place and so many experts in the crowd and on social media.
I hope it is Ben Garner now and he is given a chance by Thomas and the crowd to deliver.
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Exactly - I think it was an ironic observation on the nature of empty gestures.Belv said:
How does a non-season ticket holder return a season ticket they don't have?Addick_8 said:All the non-season ticket holders on threatening to return their season tickets on Twitter is making my skin crawl.
We, as a fanbase serious need humbling
Watching and listening to the video that is doing the rounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sKFHELgNFQ
and looking at his performance last season I am coming round to the "quite whelmed" position.
A young manager with some success under his belt, clearly with a brain, with a reason to want to take a difficult job in a higher league.
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I find this very interesting. But I think it's also worth looking at the candidates and their potential reasons for not joining (outside of our setup):Rob7Lee said:
TS's number one choice (before he even sacked Jackson) was Beale. Beale will not come to work under this set up despite being very keen on becoming a manager in his own right. Warburton was I believe second choice, again will not work under the set up (but also holding out for another championship job). I don't know for sure that Smith has been spoken to, but my understanding is he was, but again without being a broken record, and especially as he still has many contacts in and around Charlton (not least Jackson) he won't work under TS.FishCostaFortune said:
So frustrating that instead on engaging in what could be an interesting conversation point you just resort to referring to my opinion as deluded.Rob7Lee said:FishCostaFortune said:
Why would the first manager TS interviewed be his first choice, and how do we know he even had a ‘first choice’? Sounds to me like they interviewed, and if the rumours are true, are still interviewing lots of candidates.Rob7Lee said:
Question, he certainly wasn't number one choice as he wasn't the first manager to be spoken to. But whether TS spoke to 3/5/10 or 100 I don't know.Todds_right_hook said:
Is this a question or a statement? Was he 8th choice or numbe 1 target?Rob7Lee said:So was he 8th, 9th or 10th choice..........
What a joke....... sacked Jackson for this........ I really give up. All will have been done on a spreadsheet, just like RD he'll never learn, too pig/big headed.
But the same mistakes are being made time and time again, players bought on stats, now managers.
But despite Swindon being number 1 in almost every stat last season, they weren't top in the one that matters - promotion.......So a manager fail to get one off the best squads in league two out of the division, so we'll give him a go at getting us out of league one with in a relative terms arguably a worse squad...... Swindon only just made the playoffs by a point.
Maybe they went into it with a complete open mind and wanted to hear from as many managers as possible which is why the process is taking as long as it is.
Secondly, and this is complete ignorance on my part due to my lack of knowledge, but what do you know about the Swindon team and it’s players to say they had one of the best squads in the league? From what I read they had 7 players at the beginning of the season, and had been in somewhat of a downward spiral.
If you believe that then IMHO you are deluded. TS much like RD has a very small pool of managers who will work under his 'set up', especially in League one, which he is now finding. Garner wasn't first choice or even 5th, but he may well be one of the few prepared to work under the set up provided by TS and MS.If you are so certain Garner was not even 5th, 6th choice etc, which managers do you think TS would rather have had in front of him?
On Beale - just remember what TS said previously (before Jackson was appointed);
"He has a fantastic track record, especially on the supporting side, of course we talked to Michael. We’ve also been a little more ambitious than that, in terms of the level of managers we’ve been reaching for."
Had Beale been interested post Adkins then 100% TS would have appointed him and not Jackson. No offence to Jackson as I love the bloke and believe he should have been given more time, but he only got the gig mainly because TS couldn't get anyone else.
So we're reaching for higher caliber managers......... yer right, it's a case of make good and do, speak to anyone in and around the first team and you'll understand why we will struggle to attract a 'head coach' of any caliber. I think TS's struggle is he cannot accept a large part of that reason is him and how he is setting up the running of the football side of the club doesn't compute with most managers/coaches.
I'm sure even Jackson had he spent ten years at the Wombles and just been sacked wouldn't have given the CAFC job a second thought. Very few managers worth their salt will.
1) Beale: I think it's very clear he was in the running, given TS' comments about him. Today we're hearing that QPR, a midtable Championship team who were near the top of the league for stretches last year, are interested. Given he's a coach at a Prem side and highly regarded, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to hold out for a Championship job. And if QPR are interested, then we were probably unlikely to get him.
2) Wharburton: As you allude to, it seems quite possible he's holding out for a Championship job. He hasn't managed in League One since 2014, spending that time at Rangers, Forest, and QPR. And his stock seems high right now given he did a good job at QPR last year, so I don't think it's unreasonable for him to hold out for a Championship job.
3) Taylor (assuming that's who Smith is): This is maybe the most nuanced one as he's a former Addick whose stock is high as a coach at the moment. In listening to Sage, who is very knowledgeable, it sounds like there were non-footballing reasons why he might not have been interested right now. I can also certainly believe that his ties to Jacko make it that much harder to take his place as well.
4) Garner: I think he's perfectly logical as a choice after those three. He lacks the experience and/or potential upside, but he's not that far off someone like Taylor. I remember him from Bristol Rovers and was put off by that, but it's really hard to argue that he hasn't done a good job at Swindon. From seven players in July to the playoffs, and being top scorers, shows there's something about him. And he seems quite bright and well thought of.
So if we take a step back and look at it, the potential top two (or at least the most experienced two) are probably unattainable. It's good to go after them, I think both would be very good at this level. But I think both feel they can get a job higher up the pyramid, and they're probably correct in that belief.
With Taylor, it seems a case of this not quite being the right time.
So from what we know/can piece together, Garner seems a pretty logical appointment.
But there remains the question of "our setup." I think it's clear Rob7Lee has some insights into this process, they've never struck me as the type to make things up.
My biggest question is, what is meant by "our setup?" Is it the head coach who doesn't have full control over transfers and is brought in to play to a club's style of play and system which is overseen by people above him and maintained regardless of who the manager is? Because if so, welcome to football in 2022 (or 2012 in the Prem, or 2002, if not far earlier, on the continent).
This is how football works now, and given we're about to have our fourth manager in two years, and given the cost of transfers and wages, I'm in favor of it. The old way of Curbs ringing up someone he knows is long gone. And if you're a team going through churn, you can't afford to bring in 5-7 new players every time you appoint a new manager. That will lead to a mishmash playing squad that totally lacks coherence (Everton spring to mind), and financial difficulties. And if it's that model that's holding them back then they're going to find the number of jobs they're willing to take increasingly small.
Or is "our setup" the fact that it's the owner and his son who seem to be strongly influencing the club's playing style and recruitment despite having little to no footballing experience? Because that, I absolutely admit, is very concerning. Like I said, bringing in a club style and approach that can be copied at all levels to help better develop players for the first team is definitely good. Using a more analytical approach when we have access to so much more data now than even five or 10 years ago is, I believe, a good way to gain a competitive advantage in a league full of big clubs desperate to get out of it.
But we're back to what qualifies Martin and TS to do this kind of thing? And the answer is, well, TS owns the club and Martin is his son. It seems pretty well established that Martin played a role in identifying our POTY, and for that he deserves credit. But his career path, from the little I know about it, seems to be "being the son of a rich guy." And that, coupled with never having worked in football before, is deeply concerning.
But also, with the amount of money in losses that it takes to run a lower league football club these days, what do you expect? Football is not a good business investment. So what we're basically left with is it being a plaything or hobby for people who have far too much money. And here we are. It could be worse, it could be an authoritarian nation-state looking to whitewash its image. But it's not great.28 -
It's like behind her eyes.......LargeAddick said:have @golfaddick and @jimmymelrose morphed into one?0 -
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Just been told that TS is definitely over next week with “other shareholders”
Read into that what you will.1 -
Garner Benaliwibble said:Leuth said:
This doesn't even scan.Henry Irving said:
I think "Super Ben's Red and White Army" is betterSouthendaddick said:And now we’ve got Ben Garner we’re f ing dynamite
The song can return 🕺You know that I'm the first to critique poor scansion in songs people suggest, but given the abuse the first few syllables have been subjected to in previous iterations (either horribly drawn out or squished together depending on whose Red and White Army we're celebrating) I wouldn't say that it's worth exercising yourself over.Personally I'm hoping for a revival of "he's got no hair but we don't care", but fear we'd have to start calling him Benny G to get it to scan.
Garner Ben
Garner Garner Ben
He’s got no hair
But we don’t care
Garner Garner Ben.
Sorted.2 -
who recalls Garner Ted Armstrong ? .. 'greetings friends around the world'0
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Part of TS strategy seems to go like this:Redrobo said:
I think he would improve the quality of the football we play and build a decent squad. I do not expect to get promoted this year but would hope to be in or around the top six at the end of the season and push onto the following season.jimmymelrose said:I love it how on here everyone tries so desperately to find arguments why this is a good appointment.
He obviously was down Sandgaard's list. People have argued with me that TS wanted someone else other than Jackson all along, and he knew who he wanted.
I still believe that he sacked Jackson with no clear idea of whether his preferred man (if indeed he had one) would take the job. Then his first couple of managerial choices turned the job down because they can see how he is an owner who will insist on all out attack all the time, and buys players he finds exciting. A new Charlton manager has to be someone who will jump at the chance of managing in League Once regardless of doubts about the management of the club. That why we've got this bloke. Swindon had most shots, most goals etc but lost in the play- off semi finals. We'll probably just lose 4-3 or 5-4 now instead of 2-1.
But still Charlton fans on here think we'll get promotion. I think that you are wearing rose tinted spectacles. This idea of doing well now is based upon what? Last season we did well to get out of the relegation zone and into mid table obscurity. Since then we've lost one of our best three players, not to mention a manager with a better League One record than this guy. Whatever players we get in will be more TS's or MS's choice, or players from the youth team.
I struggle to see any real argument for hope of good times other than losing high scoring games instead of low scoring games.
I think that is a reasonable expectation given where we are now. A bit rose tinted but there you go.- Create an academy that develops SE London talent and sells it to other clubs at a profit- Said academy also feeds the senior team- Raid the lower leagues for talent that is good value for money- Use data analytics and AI and all that stuff to make (marginal?) improvements.Given that football has such a high component of luck, I think this is fine, and it is relatively cheap. Not saying that Garner would be cheap but it would make sense.1 -
I wasn't one of those that questioned you so thanks for confirming that Garner has now been appointed. Saves us checking on the official site.Wheresmeticket? said:I said it was going to be ben Garner back in April but all the usual suspects got on the bandwagon and derided me. Noticeable that none of you have been on here to apologise since, I'm still waiting.
BTW AFKA deleted my original post as it was too contentious, so don't go looking for it, but you know who you are.1 -
If the "other shareholders" part is true, it leads to two possible conclusions:DA9 said:Just been told that TS is definitely over next week with “other shareholders”
Read into that what you will.
1) TS is unwilling to bankroll our current losses on his own, i.e. it's more expensive than he thought it would be to compete
2) TS is bringing in extra investment to get us where he wants us to be, for the same reason as above
To a certain extent both could be considered "a good thing"(tm). If there's extra investors then it will dilute Tommy's control over the club and hopefully lead to a more structured decision making process, and probably a CEO being put in place who would represent all investors interests. And of course extra money (if it is option 2) is always nice to have at any level.
The hope from our point of view has to be that TS has realised that the squad simply isn't good enough and needs a major overhaul rather than the cheaper incremental improvements he was hoping for. My additional hope would be that he realised that he can't get the losses down whilst he doesn't own the ground, doesn't own Sparrows Lane and isn't a Cat 1 academy, and that additional investment is the only way to achieve those aims in a timely fashion.
Or maybe he's just got a rich mate who's a drummer and has convinced him to invest on the basis that they can perform together at the valley whenever they like and 10,000+ people have to watch them2 -
Check out goal 6 and goal 7 of Swindon's goal of the season competition. This is at the point in the season where you would imagine Garner's ideas were starting to click.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f-YQu4A4-8 13 -
Someone in the club told me, wouldn’t elaborate further, also said that genuinely doesn’t know who has the job or if anyones been offered it, but I would expect them to say that regardless tbhrandy andy said:
If the "other shareholders" part is true, it leads to two possible conclusions:DA9 said:Just been told that TS is definitely over next week with “other shareholders”
Read into that what you will.
1) TS is unwilling to bankroll our current losses on his own, i.e. it's more expensive than he thought it would be to compete
2) TS is bringing in extra investment to get us where he wants us to be, for the same reason as above
To a certain extent both could be considered "a good thing"(tm). If there's extra investors then it will dilute Tommy's control over the club and hopefully lead to a more structured decision making process, and probably a CEO being put in place who would represent all investors interests. And of course extra money (if it is option 2) is always nice to have at any level.
The hope from our point of view has to be that TS has realised that the squad simply isn't good enough and needs a major overhaul rather than the cheaper incremental improvements he was hoping for. My additional hope would be that he realised that he can't get the losses down whilst he doesn't own the ground, doesn't own Sparrows Lane and isn't a Cat 1 academy, and that additional investment is the only way to achieve those aims in a timely fashion.
Or maybe he's just got a rich mate who's a drummer and has convinced him to invest on the basis that they can perform together at the valley whenever they like and 10,000+ people have to watch them3 -
Fair enough, and all interesting stuff.DA9 said:
Someone in the club told me, wouldn’t elaborate further, also said that genuinely doesn’t know who has the job or if anyones been offered it, but I would expect them to say that regardless tbhrandy andy said:
If the "other shareholders" part is true, it leads to two possible conclusions:DA9 said:Just been told that TS is definitely over next week with “other shareholders”
Read into that what you will.
1) TS is unwilling to bankroll our current losses on his own, i.e. it's more expensive than he thought it would be to compete
2) TS is bringing in extra investment to get us where he wants us to be, for the same reason as above
To a certain extent both could be considered "a good thing"(tm). If there's extra investors then it will dilute Tommy's control over the club and hopefully lead to a more structured decision making process, and probably a CEO being put in place who would represent all investors interests. And of course extra money (if it is option 2) is always nice to have at any level.
The hope from our point of view has to be that TS has realised that the squad simply isn't good enough and needs a major overhaul rather than the cheaper incremental improvements he was hoping for. My additional hope would be that he realised that he can't get the losses down whilst he doesn't own the ground, doesn't own Sparrows Lane and isn't a Cat 1 academy, and that additional investment is the only way to achieve those aims in a timely fashion.
Or maybe he's just got a rich mate who's a drummer and has convinced him to invest on the basis that they can perform together at the valley whenever they like and 10,000+ people have to watch them
If TS is over next week then you'd expect an official announcement either not long before he arrives, or just after. He's going to want to be in videos/photos with the new manager either at announcement or very shortly afterwards,1 -
Ill admit the idea of Garner taking over was a bit underwhelming (haven't had a chance to watch the you tube thing yet) but getting a team to keep possession in L2 whilst keeping an attacking philosophy is impressive. I understand football has come way from (most) lower league just punting it up to a lump with a quick player to chase!
Any manager that comes in I would support and this is no different...just a tad weird its gone quiet again!!3
