I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
Because all managers contracts have that in them, that and how much it costs them to leave as well.
It's hardly a unique circumstance. Adkins Powell, Robinson etc would all have had similar.
Remember very few managers are ever actually sacked, like in the real world. Tony Pullis is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
On some countries they are just, effectively, put on gardening leave until either they get another job or the contract runs out. That's why especially in Italy you see managers go back to their old jobs. They were already on the payroll.
Thomas Sandgaard wanted applications for the job which is his right as the owner where possibly QPR headhunted Michael Beale when they knew Mark Warburton was leaving towards the end of last season so a smoother transition took place. If anyone knows different please inform.
I said by June 1st we would hear the announcement of Cafc new manager so there was a two week window before Training starts at Sparrows Lane and the new guy can get familiar with his new work place and build a relationship with Steve Gallen and Martin Sandgaard. Also Thomas Sandgaard obviously, in person or on Zoom.
I'm surprised it has taken this long for this comment to appear.
In football you are more likely get the right person if you do your homework and go get the manager you believe is right.
I remember RM deciding to interview for Curbs replacement and got impressed with Dowie, didn't he do a great presentation.
Tommy gets impressed with presentations, lets hope this doesn't go the same way.
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
Bumped into Thomas in Primark, he said he was going to announce a manager today but thought best to hold off out of respect for Her Majesty. We shook hands and sang two verses of God Save The Queen, which everyone in Primark stopped in their tracks and joined in. Was quite moving tbh and goes better with the electric guitar than I realised.
Well that’s good, I thought we were shopping in poundland!
If true I am happy about Marquis. I rate him at this level. As one of our strikers in a rotation system he would be a good signing.
I understand that Bowyer tried to sign him when we were promoted three years ago. My only misgiving is what does this mean for Stockley? I wouldn't want him as a replacement for Jayden. I am also curious about Davison if Garner takes the job as he managed him at Swindon.
Bumped into Thomas in Primark, he said he was going to announce a manager today but thought best to hold off out of respect for Her Majesty. We shook hands and sang two verses of God Save The Queen, which everyone in Primark stopped in their tracks and joined in. Was quite moving tbh and goes better with the electric guitar than I realised.
Is this code for we are shopping in Primark rather than Fortnum and Masons?
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
I get that.
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
I get that.
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
There is a compensation clause in all managers contracts. For both being sacked and being poached.
There is a proforma for the LMA standard contract avaliable online.
Edit: it's Rule p8 apparently
"Contracts of employment between a Club and Manager shall:
include the standard clauses set out in Appendix 7;
clearly set out the circumstances in which the contract of employment may be determined by either party.” (Rule P.8)
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
I get that.
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
Forgetting performance for a minute, don't all managers contracts contain early contract termination clauses with associated compensation negotiated at the outset between the agent and Club.
If this doesn't answer your question, I'm not sure I can because I'm struggling to see where you're coming from on this one if I'm being honest. Sorry.
I think some have tried to make out that JJ's contract was far more complicated than it actually was, possibly because of the automatic performance related rolling extension clause, assuming there was one.
Met someone yesterday whilst abroad who plays for the club (won’t name names), but they were confident it’s Garner, been round the training ground 3 times last week with his back room staff from Swindon. Wouldn’t say why it’s not been announced yet though. Also said Marquis will sign too.
He was gutted Jacko was gone, said he deserved a pre-season
I think we could of got Beale if we went all out to offer him a suitable offer early on as it's been said he is a local lad, wanted to be a number one.
I think we are waiting on Thomas himself to come over before announcing as he wants to be involved as well as introducing himself or to finalise proceedings.
Again I think coaches/managers will do their due diligence on us as well with the contract we offer and how we recruit etc our plans for the future to see if it be a good fit.
If true I am happy about Marquis. I rate him at this level. As one of our strikers in a rotation system he would be a good signing.
I understand that Bowyer tried to sign him when we were promoted three years ago. My only misgiving is what does this mean for Stockley? I wouldn't want him as a replacement for Jayden. I am also curious about Davison if Garner takes the job as he managed him at Swindon.
I think we could of got Beale if we went all out to offer him a suitable offer early on as it's been said he is a local lad, wanted to be a number one.
I think we are waiting on Thomas himself to come over before announcing as he wants to be involved as well as introducing himself or to finalise proceedings.
Again I think coaches/managers will do their due diligence on us as well with the contract we offer and how we recruit etc our plans for the future to see if it be a good fit.
If Beale had a choice between what we could offer in terms of prospects compared to QPR then he was only ever going to choose QPR. Add into that they could probably offer a much better financial package then I don’t think we were ever in with a shout. It’s a reality of where we are as a club. After these few weeks reflection since Garner was leaked I’m actually more than pleased that we have managed to get him and hopefully his back room staff. Young progressive, quite experienced, ambitious and likes attacking football. I think if he’s the one then we’ve done well. Beale, Warburton and PL number twos was always unrealistic.
Thomas Sandgaard wanted applications for the job which is his right as the owner where possibly QPR headhunted Michael Beale when they knew Mark Warburton was leaving towards the end of last season so a smoother transition took place. If anyone knows different please inform.
I said by June 1st we would hear the announcement of Cafc new manager so there was a two week window before Training starts at Sparrows Lane and the new guy can get familiar with his new work place and build a relationship with Steve Gallen and Martin Sandgaard. Also Thomas Sandgaard obviously, in person or on Zoom.
I'm surprised it has taken this long for this comment to appear.
In football you are more likely get the right person if you do your homework and go get the manager you believe is right.
I remember RM deciding to interview for Curbs replacement and got impressed with Dowie, didn't he do a great presentation.
Tommy gets impressed with presentations, lets hope this doesn't go the same way.
If it's about presentations I'm managing Charlton next season.
A Swindon contact thinks - All about compensation regarding Garner at present. DOF also resigned. Looks like it going to be him.
When the story broke regarding Garner the first thing that was said was that compensation had been agreed. That was the one the bit that didnt need mulling over by all & sundry on here.
I reckon your "contact" knows less than most of us.
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
You can sack anyone regardless, even if we won the league. The contract had less or perhaps no pay off to JJ if the team didn't finish 8th or above.
Met someone yesterday whilst abroad who plays for the club (won’t name names), but they were confident it’s Garner, been round the training ground 3 times last week with his back room staff from Swindon. Wouldn’t say why it’s not been announced yet though. Also said Marquis will sign too.
He was gutted Jacko was gone, said he deserved a pre-season
@Duck-Killer Brown if this is correct you are like a 100/1 winner of the Derby.
The only doubt I have is most of the players are on holiday and don't report back until the 16th. I assume this is where you met the guy ? Possibly the players who have been injured like Fraser may have been at Sparrows doing some extra training ?
This is quality gossip and just what this Next manager thread needed as like the TV channel Dave, there are too many repeats.
Met someone yesterday whilst abroad who plays for the club (won’t name names), but they were confident it’s Garner, been round the training ground 3 times last week with his back room staff from Swindon. Wouldn’t say why it’s not been announced yet though. Also said Marquis will sign too.
He was gutted Jacko was gone, said he deserved a pre-season
@Duck-Killer Brown if this is correct you are like a 100/1 winner of the Derby.
The only doubt I have is most of the players are on holiday and don't report back until the 16th. I assume this is where you met the guy ? Possibly the players who have been injured like Fraser may have been at Sparrows doing some extra training ?
This is quality gossip and just what this Next manager thread needed as like the TV channel Dave, there are too many repeats.
Bravo DKB.
Met somebody yesterday whilst abroad is the clue about where he met them......
If true I am happy about Marquis. I rate him at this level. As one of our strikers in a rotation system he would be a good signing.
I understand that Bowyer tried to sign him when we were promoted three years ago. My only misgiving is what does this mean for Stockley? I wouldn't want him as a replacement for Jayden. I am also curious about Davison if Garner takes the job as he managed him at Swindon.
They will play alternate weeks to mitigate for suspensions and injuries 🙂
Comments
It's hardly a unique circumstance. Adkins Powell, Robinson etc would all have had similar.
Remember very few managers are ever actually sacked, like in the real world. Tony Pullis is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
On some countries they are just, effectively, put on gardening leave until either they get another job or the contract runs out. That's why especially in Italy you see managers go back to their old jobs. They were already on the payroll.
In football you are more likely get the right person if you do your homework and go get the manager you believe is right.
I remember RM deciding to interview for Curbs replacement and got impressed with Dowie, didn't he do a great presentation.
Tommy gets impressed with presentations, lets hope this doesn't go the same way.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
But you're not the first person to say that.
Funny old thing football
I understand that Bowyer tried to sign him when we were promoted three years ago. My only misgiving is what does this mean for Stockley? I wouldn't want him as a replacement for Jayden. I am also curious about Davison if Garner takes the job as he managed him at Swindon.
All of a sudden it sounds like applying for a job at Sainsbury's. It actually requires filling out a job application.
Imagine sandgaurd interviewing Karl Robinson and seeing if he might return.
They'd both be twirling their hands followed by a "you've charmed me, you've/I've got the job"
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
There is a proforma for the LMA standard contract avaliable online.
Edit: it's Rule p8 apparently
"Contracts of employment between a Club and Manager shall:
If this doesn't answer your question, I'm not sure I can because I'm struggling to see where you're coming from on this one if I'm being honest. Sorry.
I think some have tried to make out that JJ's contract was far more complicated than it actually was, possibly because of the automatic performance related rolling extension clause, assuming there was one.
I think we are waiting on Thomas himself to come over before announcing as he wants to be involved as well as introducing himself or to finalise proceedings.
Again I think coaches/managers will do their due diligence on us as well with the contract we offer and how we recruit etc our plans for the future to see if it be a good fit.
All about compensation regarding Garner at present.
DOF also resigned.
Looks like it going to be him.
I reckon your "contact" knows less than most of us.
The contract had less or perhaps no pay off to JJ if the team didn't finish 8th or above.
@Duck-Killer Brown if this is correct you are like a 100/1 winner of the Derby.
The only doubt I have is most of the players are on holiday and don't report back until the 16th. I assume this is where you met the guy ? Possibly the players who have been injured like Fraser may have been at Sparrows doing some extra training ?
This is quality gossip and just what this Next manager thread needed as like the TV channel Dave, there are too many repeats.
Bravo DKB.