IF and its an IF we are going for the Swindon guy - could it be that he has already said how he does and doesn't want to play? Maybe he want's 3 more mobile strikers as opposed to a big guy / little guy combo
Similarly what if we were keen on Cole Stockton instead? Too similar to Stockley but maybe as suitable replacement?
We just don't know but as far as I am aware Jayden is going nowhere?
Thomas arrives over the weekend and is at The Valley/Sparrows Lane from Monday. This much I know so I expect things to start moving forwards next week and some of the idle tuittle tattle can be replaced with slightly more information rather than rumours. Maybe
We must have some idea of how we want to play and appointe the manager to match it surely?
If we don't know if we want John Beck or Pep Guardiloa what have the super-duper recruitment team been doing since Christmas?
I think it's quite obvious how we are going to try and play. Wether we do or not is the question, and worry.
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
For the actual sake of fuck. Where's the evidence to say that he's worse than Duchatelet, a man who sent an email trying to explain to Chris Powell how formations worked and sent him random work experience kids on loan as well as a goalkeeper he didn't even know was coming? Is there a three week cut off of having no manager where you can just say whatever random shit you want and people nod their heads enthusiastically? I'm not loving the current situation myself but can we stop inventing stuff? We're Charlton fans, we've got enough to worry about as it is.
Just think we are now on p.213 and if people hadn't been inventing stuff we would still be on p.1. All the hours spent reading made up bollocks in the hope that one post had something relevant to say, but no apart from the Cawley posts re Garner, which still haven't come to fruition, it is clear nobody knows fuck all so they make up stuff to turn the screw on TS with Ronnie making up stuff to defend against the made up stuff. None of us are happy with the current situation but it is totally outside our control, after all it wouldn't be Charlton if it wasn't another bumpy ride and we should all be used to that by now.
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
Met someone yesterday whilst abroad who plays for the club (won’t name names), but they were confident it’s Garner, been round the training ground 3 times last week with his back room staff from Swindon. Wouldn’t say why it’s not been announced yet though. Also said Marquis will sign too.
He was gutted Jacko was gone, said he deserved a pre-season
Met someone yesterday whilst abroad who plays for the club (won’t name names), but they were confident it’s Garner, been round the training ground 3 times last week with his back room staff from Swindon. Wouldn’t say why it’s not been announced yet though. Also said Marquis will sign too.
He was gutted Jacko was gone, said he deserved a pre-season
Bumped into Thomas in Primark, he said he was going to announce a manager today but thought best to hold off out of respect for Her Majesty. We shook hands and sang two verses of God Save The Queen, which everyone in Primark stopped in their tracks and joined in. Was quite moving tbh and goes better with the electric guitar than I realised.
Is this code for we are shopping in Primark rather than Fortnum and Masons?
Bumped into Thomas in Primark, he said he was going to announce a manager today but thought best to hold off out of respect for Her Majesty. We shook hands and sang two verses of God Save The Queen, which everyone in Primark stopped in their tracks and joined in. Was quite moving tbh and goes better with the electric guitar than I realised.
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
I’m not surprised it’ll be done till TS has met his preferred candidate, suspect Adkins interviewed very well over Zoom, and I don’t think that mistake will be made again
I hope what you are sayng is true, or basically true You seem very firm on the time line so, i hope .it is,--- Interesting about Marquis. I dont know much about this striker but we need more, to cover for injury etc. It seems a good move, and will prove that we dont need a manager in place,to make common sense signing Interesting that person X was gutted that J J was sacked. A lot has been said about J J not getting us into play offs, but lets face it, he had the 'perfect storm' More or less lumbererd with players, not of his choosing. and an injury affected forward line.for about 4 weeks. If i Fault TS a bit, its that he never gave JJ a full season, to prove himself. If JJ is mighty successful, and i hope he is, his team may come back to haunt us some day And another clear fault of T S, is to drag out this appointment ,of our new manager, there fore not getting the new team togeather, jeopardising meaningful pre season games, I still think its better late than never and the new manager will have to hit the ground running Which i am sure will be the case, As a Charlton supporter over many decades, I'l go with the flow, for who ever comes in. In Spite of some faults, i respect TS for saving the club, and genuinly having the club at heart. He turns up when he can , where as R D didn't give a rats
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
Because all managers contracts have that in them, that and how much it costs them to leave as well.
It's hardly a unique circumstance. Adkins Powell, Robinson etc would all have had similar.
Remember very few managers are ever actually sacked, like in the real world. Tony Pullis is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
On some countries they are just, effectively, put on gardening leave until either they get another job or the contract runs out. That's why especially in Italy you see managers go back to their old jobs. They were already on the payroll.
Thomas Sandgaard wanted applications for the job which is his right as the owner where possibly QPR headhunted Michael Beale when they knew Mark Warburton was leaving towards the end of last season so a smoother transition took place. If anyone knows different please inform.
I said by June 1st we would hear the announcement of Cafc new manager so there was a two week window before Training starts at Sparrows Lane and the new guy can get familiar with his new work place and build a relationship with Steve Gallen and Martin Sandgaard. Also Thomas Sandgaard obviously, in person or on Zoom.
I'm surprised it has taken this long for this comment to appear.
In football you are more likely get the right person if you do your homework and go get the manager you believe is right.
I remember RM deciding to interview for Curbs replacement and got impressed with Dowie, didn't he do a great presentation.
Tommy gets impressed with presentations, lets hope this doesn't go the same way.
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
Bumped into Thomas in Primark, he said he was going to announce a manager today but thought best to hold off out of respect for Her Majesty. We shook hands and sang two verses of God Save The Queen, which everyone in Primark stopped in their tracks and joined in. Was quite moving tbh and goes better with the electric guitar than I realised.
Well that’s good, I thought we were shopping in poundland!
If true I am happy about Marquis. I rate him at this level. As one of our strikers in a rotation system he would be a good signing.
I understand that Bowyer tried to sign him when we were promoted three years ago. My only misgiving is what does this mean for Stockley? I wouldn't want him as a replacement for Jayden. I am also curious about Davison if Garner takes the job as he managed him at Swindon.
Bumped into Thomas in Primark, he said he was going to announce a manager today but thought best to hold off out of respect for Her Majesty. We shook hands and sang two verses of God Save The Queen, which everyone in Primark stopped in their tracks and joined in. Was quite moving tbh and goes better with the electric guitar than I realised.
Is this code for we are shopping in Primark rather than Fortnum and Masons?
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
I get that.
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
I get that.
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
There is a compensation clause in all managers contracts. For both being sacked and being poached.
There is a proforma for the LMA standard contract avaliable online.
Edit: it's Rule p8 apparently
"Contracts of employment between a Club and Manager shall:
include the standard clauses set out in Appendix 7;
clearly set out the circumstances in which the contract of employment may be determined by either party.” (Rule P.8)
I expect Garner to be announced, probably next week. Failing that there is likely to be a public fall-out. Jackson’s higher compensation hinged on finishing eighth or higher, which was probably already impossible when he took over, although personally I think he is better off at AFCW.
To offer some broader context a lot of the scepticism about TS is driven from within the club, playing side and non-playing side. There is certainly a private view of him among ex-pros that is much more sceptical than the public one.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
This is what I don't get.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
He was sacked 6 months into an 18 month contract and so was due compensation, the value of which would have been more if we'd finished 8th or better.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
I get that.
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
Forgetting performance for a minute, don't all managers contracts contain early contract termination clauses with associated compensation negotiated at the outset between the agent and Club.
If this doesn't answer your question, I'm not sure I can because I'm struggling to see where you're coming from on this one if I'm being honest. Sorry.
I think some have tried to make out that JJ's contract was far more complicated than it actually was, possibly because of the automatic performance related rolling extension clause, assuming there was one.
Comments
If we don't know if we want John Beck or Pep Guardiloa what have the super-duper recruitment team been doing since Christmas?
I think it's quite obvious how we are going to try and play. Wether we do or not is the question, and worry.
i don’t think anyone wants him to fail, still less be organising any opposition to him. I won’t be doing that regardless. But wanting him to succeed won’t make it happen.
Goodness knows where we would have been last season without him.
However his presence dictates our style of play somewhat.
If Jackson had taken us from a relegation place to an 8th place (or higher) finish, why is compensation even relevant? Did the contract really allow for a sacking under those circumstances?
I reckon Garner is waiting for a chat with Sandgaard once he arrives in England. This report suggests nothing has been finalised.
That bloke is Charlton. He's flirted with other clubs and he's very popular wherever he goes.
A true gent who just gets on with the job
Interesting that person X was gutted that J J was sacked. A lot has been said about J J not getting us into play offs, but lets face it, he had the 'perfect storm' More or less lumbererd with players, not of his choosing. and an injury affected forward line.for about 4 weeks.
If i Fault TS a bit, its that he never gave JJ a full season, to prove himself. If JJ is mighty successful, and i hope he is, his team may come back to haunt us some day And another clear fault of T S, is to drag out this appointment ,of our new manager, there fore not getting the new team togeather, jeopardising meaningful pre season games,
I still think its better late than never and the new manager will have to hit the ground running Which i am sure will be the case,
As a Charlton supporter over many decades, I'l go with the flow, for who ever comes in.
In Spite of some faults, i respect TS for saving the club, and genuinly having the club at heart. He turns up when he can , where as R D didn't give a rats
It's hardly a unique circumstance. Adkins Powell, Robinson etc would all have had similar.
Remember very few managers are ever actually sacked, like in the real world. Tony Pullis is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
On some countries they are just, effectively, put on gardening leave until either they get another job or the contract runs out. That's why especially in Italy you see managers go back to their old jobs. They were already on the payroll.
In football you are more likely get the right person if you do your homework and go get the manager you believe is right.
I remember RM deciding to interview for Curbs replacement and got impressed with Dowie, didn't he do a great presentation.
Tommy gets impressed with presentations, lets hope this doesn't go the same way.
I'm only interpreting what I've seen @Airman Brown state, which I think he based on Cawley's reporting. I'm not ITK BTW and have no connection to Charlton, other than suffering along with the rest of us since the 70's.
But you're not the first person to say that.
Funny old thing football
I understand that Bowyer tried to sign him when we were promoted three years ago. My only misgiving is what does this mean for Stockley? I wouldn't want him as a replacement for Jayden. I am also curious about Davison if Garner takes the job as he managed him at Swindon.
All of a sudden it sounds like applying for a job at Sainsbury's. It actually requires filling out a job application.
Imagine sandgaurd interviewing Karl Robinson and seeing if he might return.
They'd both be twirling their hands followed by a "you've charmed me, you've/I've got the job"
My point is, why would a contract address any potential sacking (so, forget about the compensation for a minute ... I'm talking about dismissal) if Jackson was successful enough to take us from a relegation place to 8th place or higher?
To my mind, there is only one answer ... that the expectation (performance aspect) was that we would finish in the top six. In the event that we didn't, sacking would be automatic ... with compensation based on how badly the target was missed.
The level of compensation is irrelevant without the sacking clause first.
There is a proforma for the LMA standard contract avaliable online.
Edit: it's Rule p8 apparently
"Contracts of employment between a Club and Manager shall:
If this doesn't answer your question, I'm not sure I can because I'm struggling to see where you're coming from on this one if I'm being honest. Sorry.
I think some have tried to make out that JJ's contract was far more complicated than it actually was, possibly because of the automatic performance related rolling extension clause, assuming there was one.