A friend's wife's friend was in a kebab shop in Greenwich late this evening and he heard that Sandgaard had come in an hour or so earlier. He said that he can't reveal his sauce.
Many Charlton fans just have not acclimatised into the Club and Team we are.
It really is easier pointing out issues without having an input in resolving them.
An input in resolving them is quite simple. Hire a decent manager Give them the funds to recruit the right players. Do not interfere with team selection or training tactics. It really is that simple.
Very simple when it's not your money though isn't it.
Christ Alfuckingmighty, if I hear that trite, imbecilic "it's not your money" cliche again I'm going to punch a bloody wall or something.
Many Charlton fans just have not acclimatised into the Club and Team we are.
It really is easier pointing out issues without having an input in resolving them.
An input in resolving them is quite simple. Hire a decent manager Give them the funds to recruit the right players. Do not interfere with team selection or training tactics. It really is that simple.
Very simple when it's not your money though isn't it.
Christ Alfuckingmighty, if I hear that trite, imbecilic "it's not your money" cliche again I'm going to punch a bloody wall or something.
Many Charlton fans just have not acclimatised into the Club and Team we are.
It really is easier pointing out issues without having an input in resolving them.
An input in resolving them is quite simple. Hire a decent manager Give them the funds to recruit the right players. Do not interfere with team selection or training tactics. It really is that simple.
Very simple when it's not your money though isn't it.
Christ Alfuckingmighty, if I hear that trite, imbecilic "it's not your money" cliche again I'm going to punch a bloody wall or something.
why is it imbecilic? It's so easy to demand that Sandgaard goes out and splashes out X,Y and Z. Why do we have the right to do that?
A friend's wife's friend was in a kebab shop in Greenwich late this evening and he heard that Sandgaard had come in an hour or so earlier. He said that he can't reveal his sauce.
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
Many Charlton fans just have not acclimatised into the Club and Team we are.
It really is easier pointing out issues without having an input in resolving them.
An input in resolving them is quite simple. Hire a decent manager Give them the funds to recruit the right players. Do not interfere with team selection or training tactics. It really is that simple.
Very simple when it's not your money though isn't it.
Christ Alfuckingmighty, if I hear that trite, imbecilic "it's not your money" cliche again I'm going to punch a bloody wall or something.
why is it imbecilic? It's so easy to demand that Sandgaard goes out and splashes out X,Y and Z. Why do we have the right to do that?
Well, for one thing of course it's not our fucking money. But supporters have a long-term emotional and financial commitment to the club in terms of support and season tickets, so I think we are entitled to an opinion that the owner give the manager the funds to recruit the best players without being patronised that it's not our money. Nobody is suggesting that the owner be financially reckless, but if they aren't prepared to pay what is necessary to get us out of league one then why buy the freaking club in the first place
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Couple of posters on ITTV, eh? Brill. Let's throw another name in the rumour mill. Then the usual suspects can insult our owner for not giving him the job.
On a general note, there seems to be an unhealthy bandwagon looking to criticize TS at every opportunity. What's the point?
Many Charlton fans just have not acclimatised into the Club and Team we are.
It really is easier pointing out issues without having an input in resolving them.
An input in resolving them is quite simple. Hire a decent manager Give them the funds to recruit the right players. Do not interfere with team selection or training tactics. It really is that simple.
Very simple when it's not your money though isn't it.
Christ Alfuckingmighty, if I hear that trite, imbecilic "it's not your money" cliche again I'm going to punch a bloody wall or something.
why is it imbecilic? It's so easy to demand that Sandgaard goes out and splashes out X,Y and Z. Why do we have the right to do that?
Well, for one thing of course it's not our fucking money. But supporters have a long-term emotional and financial commitment to the club in terms of support and season tickets, so I think we are entitled to an opinion that the owner give the manager the funds to recruit the best players without being patronised that it's not our money. Nobody is suggesting that the owner be financially reckless, but if they aren't prepared to pay what is necessary to get us out of league one then why buy the freaking club in the first place
Think you need a chill pill, I wasn't patronising anybody. Although fair points, and I absolutely agree that taking over and then not giving a fair budget is pointless, in fact I've made that point previously. It's not as simple as just going out and getting the best players though is it. There is a big difference between asking the chairman to fund a squad and then asking him to go out and splash the cash. We're not the biggest club in this division and there are owners a lot richer than Sandgaard too. And let's be honest, so far Sandgaard has not been unwilling to spend money anyway.
Is there a chance that TS will bring a coach from the U S? Why do we Brits only think inside the small square, that we are the best .Sure we (managers) know the leagues/players to a certain extent But the most top,successful teams have foreign coaches now Like Bob Bradley took the US to S Africa for the 2010.WC Took over form Bruce Arena And who is the current coach of Canada, working miracles apparently I wont bore Addicks with my opinion of Aussie coaches like Alloisi Popovich ,perhaps Kisnorbo. Time will tell-- Dwyte York has taken over Macarthur (S Sydney) just 3 weeks after Milicic left for a better Job .How long have we been waiting for ours? Where is Kewell coaching now? Not that he has had the success of Ange Postecoglou at Celtic
I don't think that's the case at all, look how many British managers have been in the Prem over the last 15 years or so, not many at all. An English manager is still yet to win the Premier League. I think it's down to continental managers being more 'head coaches'. That's still rare in the lower leagues but we are seeing it become more common. I don't think people like Beale would have been giving a Championship gig a few years ago, it's certainly more of a pattern and managers rather than coaches are slowly becoming a thing of the past.
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
Unfortunately it’s the perfect storm and Thomas is already getting himself a reputation around football circles.
There are plenty of clubs in the pyramid that now handle their recruitment independently of the manager. It’s the ‘head coach’ model that traditionalists don’t like but can absolutely be successful if done right.
I don’t think that’s the reason we are still waiting for an announcement on a new manager.
I tend to believe that it comes from the supposed performance related break clause that Thomas apparently insists on including. That, together with having little to no input on the players signed, would be a deal breaker for many managers and head coaches alike.
Add in the fact that such a clause was used to dispose of the previous bloke after he guided the club from 23rd to 13th and I can see why anyone would be hesitant to take the job.
Many Charlton fans just have not acclimatised into the Club and Team we are.
It really is easier pointing out issues without having an input in resolving them.
An input in resolving them is quite simple. Hire a decent manager Give them the funds to recruit the right players. Do not interfere with team selection or training tactics. It really is that simple.
Very simple when it's not your money though isn't it.
Christ Alfuckingmighty, if I hear that trite, imbecilic "it's not your money" cliche again I'm going to punch a bloody wall or something.
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
Unfortunately it’s the perfect storm and Thomas is already getting himself a reputation around football circles.
There are plenty of clubs in the pyramid that now handle their recruitment independently of the manager. It’s the ‘head coach’ model that traditionalists don’t like but can absolutely be successful if done right.
I don’t think that’s the reason we are still waiting for an announcement on a new manager.
I tend to believe that it comes from the supposed performance related break clause that Thomas apparently insists on including. That, together with having little to no input on the players signed, would be a deal breaker for many managers and head coaches alike.
Add in the fact that such a clause was used to dispose of the previous bloke after he guided the club from 23rd to 13th and I can see why anyone would be hesitant to take the job.
The performance clause only determined the scale of his pay off - Sacked part way through an 18 month contract I believe. Is that so unusual?
Some posters are assuming interviewees have turned us down, but Beale opted to join a Championship club and Garner, who's used to being in the hot seat and might have interviewed better, has been offered it, so we're reliably informed. He hasn't turned us down yet has he?
Others might not have been offered it or no decision on them has been made yet. We may never find out.
If we were offering a standard or mostly standard contract to a candidate for manager with no hidden get out clauses we would have secured somebody suitable by now.
Remind me of a club that took this long recently to appoint a new manager, when they decided to part company with their old manager, where there was a happy ending.
Let's just face it, TS is a successful businessman in his own field. His choices within football haven't been great so far. Sadly I don't see it changing anytime soon.
I'm not atracking him, but I genuinely can't defend him.
If we were offering a standard or mostly standard contract to a candidate for manager with no hidden get out clauses we would have secured somebody suitable by now.
Remind me of a club that took this long recently to appoint a new manager, when they decided to part company with their old manager, where there was a happy ending.
Let's just face it, TS is a successful businessman in his own field. His choices within football haven't been great so far. Sadly I don't see it changing anytime soon.
I'm not atracking him, but I genuinely can't defend him.
Agreed, but clutching at straws here, maybe, just maybe, that's why it's taking so long. He knows he needs to get it right, and he never promised to make a quick decision on this.
Beale joining us was a bit of over optimistic wishful thinking, and was unlikely to happen imo.
Just wondering how many people TS has interviewed, and how many have turned us down because of the terms of the contract.
Thomas has had his fingers badly burnt by Adkins, and doesn’t want to be burnt again, understandably so.
It might a tad embarrassing if Garner turns us down, cos we’re do we go from here, appoint Euelly?
Would Euelly have been a better manager than JJ I don’t know , maybe, maybe not.
Im hoping Thomas If he has told prospective applicants salary and terms of the contract has set deadlines on these terms, which could work in favour or against us the longer this drags on.
Im holding onto LL (the Charlton guy not LL cool J) 4th of June date, after that, time for some new bedsheets!
I want TS to get it right, so maybe a bit of patience is needed on my part, but it does seem a little bit, same old same old at the moment, hope he can play a blinder and shut us all up!
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
Unfortunately it’s the perfect storm and Thomas is already getting himself a reputation around football circles.
There are plenty of clubs in the pyramid that now handle their recruitment independently of the manager. It’s the ‘head coach’ model that traditionalists don’t like but can absolutely be successful if done right.
I don’t think that’s the reason we are still waiting for an announcement on a new manager.
I tend to believe that it comes from the supposed performance related break clause that Thomas apparently insists on including. That, together with having little to no input on the players signed, would be a deal breaker for many managers and head coaches alike.
Add in the fact that such a clause was used to dispose of the previous bloke after he guided the club from 23rd to 13th and I can see why anyone would be hesitant to take the job.
The performance clause only determined the scale of his pay off - Sacked part way through an 18 month contract I believe. Is that so unusual?
Some posters are assuming interviewees have turned us down, but Beale opted to join a Championship club and Garner, who's used to being in the hot seat and might have interviewed better, has been offered it, so we're reliably informed. He hasn't turned us down yet has he?
Others might not have been offered it or no decision on them has been made yet. We may never find out.
Did the contract have a corresponding clause that increased compensation to the Club if he was more successful as well?
Superclive is suggesting the clauses were hidden. Is this true?
Not going to check through all of the previous comments but has anyone mentioned Jonathan Acworth?
If he were able to get the ear of TS then the player recruitment policy would be like nothing seen at The Valley since............ .....................ohhh........err.....ummmm.......... Driesen and the early Duchatelet years.
Beale joining us was a bit of over optimistic wishful thinking, and was unlikely to happen imo.
Just wondering how many people TS has interviewed, and how many have turned us down because of the terms of the contract.
Thomas has had his fingers badly burnt by Adkins, and doesn’t want to be burnt again, understandably so.
It might a tad embarrassing if Garner turns us down, cos we’re do we go from here, appoint Euelly?
Would Euelly have been a better manager than JJ I don’t know , maybe, maybe not.
Im hoping Thomas If he has told prospective applicants salary and terms of the contract has set deadlines on these terms, which could work in favour or against us the longer this drags on.
Im holding onto LL (the Charlton guy not LL cool J) 4th of June date, after that, time for some new bedsheets!
I want TS to get it right, so maybe a bit of patience is needed on my part, but it does seem a little bit, same old same old at the moment, hope he can play a blinder and shut us all up!
...and most other Managers are too professional to come out and discuss it, whereas apparently, Beale was just one of many low level candidates some time ago lol!
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
Unfortunately it’s the perfect storm and Thomas is already getting himself a reputation around football circles.
There are plenty of clubs in the pyramid that now handle their recruitment independently of the manager. It’s the ‘head coach’ model that traditionalists don’t like but can absolutely be successful if done right.
I don’t think that’s the reason we are still waiting for an announcement on a new manager.
I tend to believe that it comes from the supposed performance related break clause that Thomas apparently insists on including. That, together with having little to no input on the players signed, would be a deal breaker for many managers and head coaches alike.
Add in the fact that such a clause was used to dispose of the previous bloke after he guided the club from 23rd to 13th and I can see why anyone would be hesitant to take the job.
The head coach thing isn't a problem. There is no right or wrong way to it. Else everyone would do it the same way. It's not a new thing either. Wasn't Dowie our head coach? Chelsea seem to swing one way to the other, sometimes even with the same person in the job.
I once listened to a radio program (like a live podcast for the younger readers) with two managers who would almost certainly be called dinosaurs here, probably even then.
One said if a scout recommended a player he would get another to go and have a look, then the chief scout. If they both said yes the assistant manager would have a look and if he said yes the manager would go and watch him, probably at least twice, and make the final call. Because as he said it was his bollocks on the block if he got it wrong.
The other said if I want a right back I tell the cheif scout to find me one. That's what I pay him for, if he is shit I sack the scout. Its his job or mine.
There are loads of different ways of doing it. What you need is the right people, singing from the same hymn sheet with someone accountable for the whole thing. If it goes the shape of a pear next season it won't be Martin getting the Spanish archer will it?
What's the relationship? Is the "recruitment team" there to give the manager/coach the best chance of success or is the manager there to try and make a silk purse out of a pigs ear?
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
Unfortunately it’s the perfect storm and Thomas is already getting himself a reputation around football circles.
There are plenty of clubs in the pyramid that now handle their recruitment independently of the manager. It’s the ‘head coach’ model that traditionalists don’t like but can absolutely be successful if done right.
I don’t think that’s the reason we are still waiting for an announcement on a new manager.
I tend to believe that it comes from the supposed performance related break clause that Thomas apparently insists on including. That, together with having little to no input on the players signed, would be a deal breaker for many managers and head coaches alike.
Add in the fact that such a clause was used to dispose of the previous bloke after he guided the club from 23rd to 13th and I can see why anyone would be hesitant to take the job.
The performance clause only determined the scale of his pay off - Sacked part way through an 18 month contract I believe. Is that so unusual?
Some posters are assuming interviewees have turned us down, but Beale opted to join a Championship club and Garner, who's used to being in the hot seat and might have interviewed better, has been offered it, so we're reliably informed. He hasn't turned us down yet has he?
Others might not have been offered it or no decision on them has been made yet. We may never find out.
Did the contract have a corresponding clause that increased compensation to the Club if he was more successful as well?
Superclive is suggesting the clauses were hidden. Is this true?
I'm only restating what I think I know based on what other credible contributors have posted previously. I'm unclear what a hidden clause is anyway. It's either there or it's not.
I should add that agents go through the contracts thoroughly to see everything before their clients sign and I suspect this is what's causing a hold up now
A couple of posters on ITTV seem to think Chris Powell was interviewed recently. Could it be?? I’m not sure he’d give up what he has with Spurs and England unless he’s desperate to get back into management.
Powell got a raw deal from RD regarding player recruitment and team selection. I think he's smart enough to realise that TS is even worse when it comes to this.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
Really not sure it's fair to compare TS to RD. TS seems to have genuine interest in the club and only wants the best for it. He has also ploughed millions of his own $$ into the club. I would say as the owner he has a right to set goals and objectives for the club and define a strategy to achieve it (like any good owner/CEO/chairaman). However the most important thing is to find the right man/team to implement the strategy - and in our case that is the manager's job - it will be the manager that makes it happen. This must then be backed up by the right resources (players, coaches, medical, etc...the list goes on). I think TS is getting there slowly on this (it's not a 5 minute job). We need to be patient.
Judging by the amount of full and part time scouts, ex players and coaches that are at every U18'S, U23' and 1st team games up and down the land I'm not sure clubs have the time anymore to watch a player so many times without losing out especially if they are decent. By the time the window opens or contracts have run out, a club ahead of the game in recruitment should be on it and don't procrastinate as you will miss out.
The pecking order as related by Cafc43 was spot on back in the day.
Comments
He said that he can't reveal his sauce.
And reportedly on LinkedIn he said he HOPES to have a manager in place by then too.
But then we used to hearing a lot of guff from TS. Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder.
We are now into June. A month has passed since JJ left & we are seemingly no further forward.
I didnt think I'd be saying this but we could be even worse off at the start of the new season than we were last season.
I firmly believe that we dont yet have a manager because no young up & coming manager is prepared to join knowing that they have no say in player recruitment & that their contract will be based on performances from a team not of their choosing.
Not only have we been turned down by Beale it wouldn't surprise me if it's been a NO from Taylor too. And we were told the other day that Garner ain't too happy with the contract either.
But supporters have a long-term emotional and financial commitment to the club in terms of support and season tickets, so I think we are entitled to an opinion that the owner give the manager the funds to recruit the best players without being patronised that it's not our money.
Nobody is suggesting that the owner be financially reckless, but if they aren't prepared to pay what is necessary to get us out of league one then why buy the freaking club in the first place
On a general note, there seems to be an unhealthy bandwagon looking to criticize TS at every opportunity. What's the point?
There are plenty of clubs in the pyramid that now handle their recruitment independently of the manager. It’s the ‘head coach’ model that traditionalists don’t like but can absolutely be successful if done right.
I don’t think that’s the reason we are still waiting for an announcement on a new manager.
I tend to believe that it comes from the supposed performance related break clause that Thomas apparently insists on including. That, together with having little to no input on the players signed, would be a deal breaker for many managers and head coaches alike.
Add in the fact that such a clause was used to dispose of the previous bloke after he guided the club from 23rd to 13th and I can see why anyone would be hesitant to take the job.
Some posters are assuming interviewees have turned us down, but Beale opted to join a Championship club and Garner, who's used to being in the hot seat and might have interviewed better, has been offered it, so we're reliably informed. He hasn't turned us down yet has he?
Others might not have been offered it or no decision on them has been made yet. We may never find out.
Remind me of a club that took this long recently to appoint a new manager, when they decided to part company with their old manager, where there was a happy ending.
Let's just face it, TS is a successful businessman in his own field. His choices within football haven't been great so far. Sadly I don't see it changing anytime soon.
I'm not atracking him, but I genuinely can't defend him.
Just wondering how many people TS has interviewed, and how many have turned us down because of the terms of the contract.
Thomas has had his fingers badly burnt by Adkins, and doesn’t want to be burnt again, understandably so.
It might a tad embarrassing if Garner turns us down, cos we’re do we go from here, appoint Euelly?
Would Euelly have been a better manager than JJ I don’t know , maybe, maybe not.
Im hoping Thomas If he has told prospective applicants salary and terms of the contract has set deadlines on these terms, which could work in favour or against us the longer this drags on.
Im holding onto LL (the Charlton guy not LL cool J) 4th of June date, after that, time for some new bedsheets!
I want TS to get it right, so maybe a bit of patience is needed on my part, but it does seem a little bit, same old same old at the moment, hope he can play a blinder and shut us all up!
Superclive is suggesting the clauses were hidden. Is this true?
I wouldn't be against Jackett, but feel that his spells at Portsmouth and Orient have tarnished his reputation.
If he were able to get the ear of TS then the player recruitment policy would be like nothing seen at The Valley since............
.....................ohhh........err.....ummmm.......... Driesen and the early Duchatelet years.
I once listened to a radio program (like a live podcast for the younger readers) with two managers who would almost certainly be called dinosaurs here, probably even then.
One said if a scout recommended a player he would get another to go and have a look, then the chief scout. If they both said yes the assistant manager would have a look and if he said yes the manager would go and watch him, probably at least twice, and make the final call. Because as he said it was his bollocks on the block if he got it wrong.
The other said if I want a right back I tell the cheif scout to find me one. That's what I pay him for, if he is shit I sack the scout. Its his job or mine.
There are loads of different ways of doing it. What you need is the right people, singing from the same hymn sheet with someone accountable for the whole thing. If it goes the shape of a pear next season it won't be Martin getting the Spanish archer will it?
What's the relationship? Is the "recruitment team" there to give the manager/coach the best chance of success or is the manager there to try and make a silk purse out of a pigs ear?
I should add that agents go through the contracts thoroughly to see everything before their clients sign and I suspect this is what's causing a hold up now
The pecking order as related by Cafc43 was spot on back in the day.