You cannot blame Southgate for this result or any of the performances, its ridiculous to schedule these games the way they have. No wonder clubs get pissy about players going on international duty.
We have a world cup coming up in the middle of the season because FIFA are run by corrupt maggots and toads and now the nations league which started as an honourable distraction from pointless friendlies scheduling games bang on top of each other with no time to rest, recover, train and prepare in between. In June! Fucking let them have a proper break, all this has done is let a ton of people throw mud at the most successful manager we have had in most of our lifetimes and propose we replace him rather than acknowledge the fixtures have been atrociously planned.
Yes you can blame woke Southgate. How can you fire up your team for kick off, when you make them kneel first? It's a submissive gesture. Never mind the fact he obviously knows F all about what's really behind BLM.
I’m sure you have no agenda here. Argue about his football not his politics.
And he should stick to football and not get involved with politics. Needs to take a lesson from Eddie Howe.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
You get exactly the same expectations leading up to big tournaments in France, Italy, Spain and Germany. Its not arrogance, as some other home nation and ROI supporters try and make us believe (usually those who actually live in England so are going to experienceit first hand), its just an excitement that we get because, on paper at least, we should be going further than we have done in the last 30 odd years.
It also helps the other home nation countries and ROI, enjoy a win/win situation of either going further than expected, or going out early but putting in "brave" performances.
He makes a lot of it, but his standing foot was kicked.
Good spot! I hadn’t noticed that.
That's because I am not looking to knock the England football team at every opportunity, I actually want them to do well, and try to look for the positives (this isn't aimed at you by the way, JS). I spotted it on the night (not in real time) , but C4 only showed the replay once or twice and I guess VAR didn't bother either? Keeps people like Dan Lewis happy, anyway.
Not many positives the other night, I'll grant you, but if the roles had been reversed and England had been under the cosh for that long, and had scored four from "only" five shots on target, I guarantee you that the usual suspects would still have been criticising. "Got lucky", "concede that much possesion against the Germans/Italians/Brazilians see what happens then", "[opposition] won't be that profligate when we play them in a proper game", "only five on target in ninety minutes", "wait until we play them in a tournament, and they play their best XI". They would still be criticising, no matter what.
The point I have been trying to make for sometime is the possession stat is the most over rated stat going.
England had 69% possession.
It was in the net 30% of that 69%
If we break it down and place it in a nut shell, Phillips sees a pass that will cut the opponents open, then doesn't feel he has the ability to play it so passes square to an advanced centre half who passes to another. Yes it does your stats a power of good for the incredibly little it is worth.
The point I have been trying to make for sometime is the possession stat is the most over rated stat going.
England had 69% possession.
It was in the net 30% of that 69%
If we break it down and place it in a nut shell, Phillips sees a pass that will cut the opponents open, then doesn't feel he has the ability to play it so passes square to an advanced centre half who passes to another. Yes it does your stats a power of good for the incredibly little it is worth.
Like the one he played through to Sterling for our opener in the Euros?
In all seriousness, we should be more forward passing, I think that’s been said for every England team since I’ve been alive. But if he tried to playing incisive passes every time he’d get slated. We actually do have players in the middle that can do that in Rice, Mount, Bellingham and potentially Gallagher.
I'm ready to be shouted down but once again I say England will never win anything whilst Southall is manager. All you people that keep going on repeating his record in the last 2 major tournaments seem to be ignoring the players England have at the moment. Imo he cost us both of those tournaments due to his negativity. Look at how these same players are now playing for england, they are so negative it's like watching us last season. Someone mentioned why jude Bellingham has stopped pressing forward like he used to ? I tell you why Southgate is stopping him because he is negative in his approach. A top manager would take these players to major honours by allowing them to play to their strengths. Southall is to scared to do so
A top manager like Capello? Why do people think this? There's absolutely no evidence for it, teams that win tournaments are almost always organised and careful. Southgate got us further than anyone has got us since 1966 and people think that he cost us the tournaments? Christ alive. We have good, young attacking players available to us but our defensive options are pretty rank. Apart from having a weirdly massive supply of right backs our centre back partnership is Harry Maguire and John Stones. I like Stones but he has a history of bloopers and can't get into the City team, while Maguire gets nothing but abuse for his performances when he plays for his club. We play a right back alongside them at centre back because we need his pace to sweep up the mistakes. At left back we have a right back, whatever version of Luke Shaw decides to turn up (he had a good season in 2021 and then reverted to type) and the crippled remains of Ben Chilwell. If we can't play Stones or Maguire we're choosing between Aston Villa, Wolves and Crystal Palace's finest. We used to have Neville, Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry and Cole available and we still achieved nothing. Southgate sets up the way he does because if we allowed the Fodens and the Grealishes to run free we'd do what we always used to do at tournaments - occasionally play well but get pulled apart by teams that were actually set up to play. In tournament football you cover your weaknesses; we can't bring in a top class centre back to replace our current ones so we protect them while still getting wins in the tournament matches we play. Hodgson tried to be expansive; we got knocked out of the Euros by Iceland after drawing with Russia and Slovakia and barely beating Wales in injury time, and didn't win a game at the World Cup despite having England's all-time top goalscorer, a Daniel Sturridge who had just scored 21 league goals in 29 games and an absolutely blistering early career Raheem Sterling. He also had a backline of Glen Johnson, Phil Jagielka, Gary Cahill and Leighton Baines that he didn't cover. We scored two goals and got one point in that World Cup. It's funny that we could always do better with a different manager, despite us not actually achieving anything in a lot of our lifetimes and never getting closer than we have with the current manager.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
We lost 4-0 to Hungary.
Lots of criticism about being unhappy we had our worst home loss in 90 years. I don't get it.
biggest margin in a home defeat since 1928 !! .. this team had no pride, they did not want to be there, where is the joy at playing for your country ? .. as far as I am concerned they are a bunch of over spoilt, over ;paid silly little kids doing stupid drawings and play acting for the TV before the first Hungary game .. did you see that ? .. fuck the tattoos and the silly haircuts, just get out there and play with some spirit or stay with your clubs, forget about playing for England and let the manager find a squad that does want to play
Sorry, but that just sounds like a generation gap issue.
There's a bit of a knee jerk reaction going on here. Yes it was a rubbish defeat, but Germany have lost to England in such a manner without demands for the manager to be sacked. Bringing in a new man (who would you recommend?) just before the World Cup ain't the way to go.
The point I have been trying to make for sometime is the possession stat is the most over rated stat going.
England had 69% possession.
It was in the net 30% of that 69%
If we break it down and place it in a nut shell, Phillips sees a pass that will cut the opponents open, then doesn't feel he has the ability to play it so passes square to an advanced centre half who passes to another. Yes it does your stats a power of good for the incredibly little it is worth.
Like the one he played through to Sterling for our opener in the Euros?
In all seriousness, we should be more forward passing, I think that’s been said for every England team since I’ve been alive. But if he tried to playing incisive passes every time he’d get slated. We actually do have players in the middle that can do that in Rice, Mount, Bellingham and potentially Gallagher.
Yes more like that one but he doesn't seem to want to do it. It was very noticeable on Tuesday.
You cannot blame Southgate for this result or any of the performances, its ridiculous to schedule these games the way they have. No wonder clubs get pissy about players going on international duty.
We have a world cup coming up in the middle of the season because FIFA are run by corrupt maggots and toads and now the nations league which started as an honourable distraction from pointless friendlies scheduling games bang on top of each other with no time to rest, recover, train and prepare in between. In June! Fucking let them have a proper break, all this has done is let a ton of people throw mud at the most successful manager we have had in most of our lifetimes and propose we replace him rather than acknowledge the fixtures have been atrociously planned.
Yes you can blame woke Southgate. How can you fire up your team for kick off, when you make them kneel first? It's a submissive gesture. Never mind the fact he obviously knows F all about what's really behind BLM.
Fuck - and I cannot stress this strongly enough - off.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
And they keep coming. You cannot seriously be unable to fathom why we have higher expectations in football than the Irish?
That's not what I'm saying. Of course we have higher expectations than the Irish. We're currently ranked five in the world by FIFA partly based on our performance is the last two major tournaments - although that ranking might drop after this Nations Cup thing.
What I'm saying is that our expectations should be reasonable. So many of our fans wet the bed when we don't win major tournaments, which is sad for them. And the support is a bit 'flimsy', in that as soon as we fall behind it all goes pretty quiet. Fans of countries with lower (or more realistic) expectations - including Ireland and the home nations - are more likely to lift the team than ours, in those circumstances. I'm sure you've noticed that. And those lifts are very important in a major tournament.
Not sure how old you are Croydon, but I'm lucky in that I remember 1966. At that time I would have expected us to win another major tournament within the next ten or twenty years, no doubt, but unfortunately since the seventies the evidence is that the rest of the world has caught up.
We currently have a good crop of attacking players, but in defence we're a little lacking in terms of depth, which is why I won't be putting any money on us to win the WC in November. But I'll give the team my full support until we're knocked out, at which point I won't be blaming the defeat on tattoos or funny haircuts.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
This is total drivel.
Cheers gazza. But our fans *are* miserable most of the time (me included), and yes, I've envied fans of small countries whose fans who seem to have a ball, compared to ours, even if they don't get through to the knockout stages. I have German and Italian mates, who I often have to watch big matches with, and they say the same, although the Italians in particular aren't exactly good losers. We have a decent team right now who have performed very well in the last two major tournaments, but one crap performance in a stupid tournament and we're in turmoil.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
This is total drivel.
Cheers gazza. But our fans *are* miserable most of the time (me included), and yes, I've envied fans of small countries whose fans who seem to have a ball, compared to ours, even if they don't get through to the knockout stages. I have German and Italian mates, who I often have to watch big matches with, and they say the same. We have a decent team right now who have performed very well in the last two major tournaments, but one crap performance in a stupid tournament and we're in turmoil.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
This is total drivel.
Cheers gazza. But our fans *are* miserable most of the time (me included), and yes, I've envied fans of small countries whose fans who seem to have a ball, compared to ours, even if they don't get through to the knockout stages. I have German and Italian mates, who I often have to watch big matches with, and they say the same. We have a decent team right now who have performed very well in the last two major tournaments, but one crap performance in a stupid tournament and we're in turmoil.
Did you miss the other 3 games?
They were boring. Drawing with Germany and Italy were half decent results, but as I said, it's a meaningless, badly timed tournament and I wasn't expecting much from it.
I absolutely agree with everything @Garrymanilow has said in his last two posts.
1. Teams who win tournaments, certainly this century, are generally defensive and boring (and also a bit lucky in one game or another). The only ones who entertained were Spain 2008-12.
2. We have not had a better manager than Southgate since Bobby Robson or maybe Venables. Our foreign managers wasted better talent than has ever been available to Southgate. When we do replace Southgate then I believe he too should not only be English, but have played for England.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
This is total drivel.
Cheers gazza. But our fans *are* miserable most of the time (me included), and yes, I've envied fans of small countries whose fans who seem to have a ball, compared to ours, even if they don't get through to the knockout stages. I have German and Italian mates, who I often have to watch big matches with, and they say the same, although the Italians in particular aren't exactly good losers. We have a decent team right now who have performed very well in the last two major tournaments, but one crap performance in a stupid tournament and we're in turmoil.
I think you're totally wrong on this. We took the final defeat very badly but did you not see the country last summer? It was absolutely buzzing. I was out for the Scotland game and it went a bit flat straight after the result but it wasn't a great performance. I don't think any of the major 6/7 countries will be happy just to be at the World Cup and should just have a "ball". I also don't understand how a team who reached a World Cup semi and final of the Euros can have an "underdogs mentality".
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
This is total drivel.
Cheers gazza. But our fans *are* miserable most of the time (me included), and yes, I've envied fans of small countries whose fans who seem to have a ball, compared to ours, even if they don't get through to the knockout stages. I have German and Italian mates, who I often have to watch big matches with, and they say the same, although the Italians in particular aren't exactly good losers. We have a decent team right now who have performed very well in the last two major tournaments, but one crap performance in a stupid tournament and we're in turmoil.
I think you're totally wrong on this. We took the final defeat very badly but did you not see the country last summer? It was absolutely buzzing. I was out for the Scotland game and it went a bit flat straight after the result but it wasn't a great performance. I don't think any of the major 6/7 countries will be happy just to be at the World Cup and should just have a "ball". I also don't understand how a team who reached a World Cup semi and final of the Euros can have an "underdogs mentality".
Neither do I.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’d be happier in that underdogs situation, than in the ‘we must get to the semis at least’ mentality, which is much more stressful.
Bit like the comparison between when we were in the Premier League, to what it’s like in League One.
I just wish we could get into the underdogs mentality, rather than having these unrealistic expectations. The plucky English making it to a final rather than ‘what a disgrace, we played well for half an hour, then we were rubbish’. I always thought the Irish fans in particular seem to have an absolute blast when they qualify for a major tournament, and any win is treated like a great triumph, any defeat a temporary setback. We English normally just get nervous during the tournament, and depressed when it’s over.
This is total drivel.
Cheers gazza. But our fans *are* miserable most of the time (me included), and yes, I've envied fans of small countries whose fans who seem to have a ball, compared to ours, even if they don't get through to the knockout stages. I have German and Italian mates, who I often have to watch big matches with, and they say the same, although the Italians in particular aren't exactly good losers. We have a decent team right now who have performed very well in the last two major tournaments, but one crap performance in a stupid tournament and we're in turmoil.
I think you're totally wrong on this. We took the final defeat very badly but did you not see the country last summer? It was absolutely buzzing. I was out for the Scotland game and it went a bit flat straight after the result but it wasn't a great performance. I don't think any of the major 6/7 countries will be happy just to be at the World Cup and should just have a "ball". I also don't understand how a team who reached a World Cup semi and final of the Euros can have an "underdogs mentality".
Neither do I.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’d be happier in that underdogs situation, than in the ‘we must get to the semis at least’ mentality, which is much more stressful.
Bit like the comparison between when we were in the Premier League, to what it’s like in League One.
Sorry if I’m not explaining very clearly.
We have got to the semi-final, and then the final of the last two major competitions. I think a lot of people who used to say that are now demanding England win everything, including Crufts and The Open...
Why are people so shocked? We had easy routes to semi's and the final in the last two tournaments making us look better than we are. As soon as we come up against a decent side we crumble. Not looked at the next world cup but if the route to the final is tougher than the last two I expect an exit in the last 16.
That's rubbish. None of the finals tournaments hold any "easy route".
Neither Italy or Germany beat us in the nation's league over the last week or so. It's just the Hungary game was clearly an appalling rare awful performance and result.
England very rarely lose games! It's just when we do...it very much stands out. The criticism surrounding the expectation is rather strong.
The main one that sticks out for me was the defeat Vs Iceland 6 years ago
You cannot blame Southgate for this result or any of the performances, its ridiculous to schedule these games the way they have. No wonder clubs get pissy about players going on international duty.
We have a world cup coming up in the middle of the season because FIFA are run by corrupt maggots and toads and now the nations league which started as an honourable distraction from pointless friendlies scheduling games bang on top of each other with no time to rest, recover, train and prepare in between. In June! Fucking let them have a proper break, all this has done is let a ton of people throw mud at the most successful manager we have had in most of our lifetimes and propose we replace him rather than acknowledge the fixtures have been atrociously planned.
Yes you can blame woke Southgate. How can you fire up your team for kick off, when you make them kneel first? It's a submissive gesture. Never mind the fact he obviously knows F all about what's really behind BLM.
I’m sure you have no agenda here. Argue about his football not his politics.
And he should stick to football and not get involved with politics. Needs to take a lesson from Eddie Howe.
Of the major European nations, England’s away support is absolutely superb. Those who do invest their time into following them home and away are pretty ‘all or nothing’ in their approach from those I know.
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It also helps the other home nation countries and ROI, enjoy a win/win situation of either going further than expected, or going out early but putting in "brave" performances.
Not many positives the other night, I'll grant you, but if the roles had been reversed and England had been under the cosh for that long, and had scored four from "only" five shots on target, I guarantee you that the usual suspects would still have been criticising. "Got lucky", "concede that much possesion against the Germans/Italians/Brazilians see what happens then", "[opposition] won't be that profligate when we play them in a proper game", "only five on target in ninety minutes", "wait until we play them in a tournament, and they play their best XI". They would still be criticising, no matter what.
There's a bit of a knee jerk reaction going on here. Yes it was a rubbish defeat, but Germany have lost to England in such a manner without demands for the manager to be sacked. Bringing in a new man (who would you recommend?) just before the World Cup ain't the way to go.
What I'm saying is that our expectations should be reasonable. So many of our fans wet the bed when we don't win major tournaments, which is sad for them. And the support is a bit 'flimsy', in that as soon as we fall behind it all goes pretty quiet. Fans of countries with lower (or more realistic) expectations - including Ireland and the home nations - are more likely to lift the team than ours, in those circumstances. I'm sure you've noticed that. And those lifts are very important in a major tournament.
Not sure how old you are Croydon, but I'm lucky in that I remember 1966. At that time I would have expected us to win another major tournament within the next ten or twenty years, no doubt, but unfortunately since the seventies the evidence is that the rest of the world has caught up.
We currently have a good crop of attacking players, but in defence we're a little lacking in terms of depth, which is why I won't be putting any money on us to win the WC in November. But I'll give the team my full support until we're knocked out, at which point I won't be blaming the defeat on tattoos or funny haircuts.
We have a decent team right now who have performed very well in the last two major tournaments, but one crap performance in a stupid tournament and we're in turmoil.
1. Teams who win tournaments, certainly this century, are generally defensive and boring (and also a bit lucky in one game or another). The only ones who entertained were Spain 2008-12.
2. We have not had a better manager than Southgate since Bobby Robson or maybe Venables. Our foreign managers wasted better talent than has ever been available to Southgate. When we do replace Southgate then I believe he too should not only be English, but have played for England.
That's rubbish. None of the finals tournaments hold any "easy route".
Neither Italy or Germany beat us in the nation's league over the last week or so.
It's just the Hungary game was clearly an appalling rare awful performance and result.
England very rarely lose games! It's just when we do...it very much stands out. The criticism surrounding the expectation is rather strong.
The main one that sticks out for me was the defeat Vs Iceland 6 years ago