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Heat Wave - Weather Watch

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    WE have had just over a week of hot weather in Kent & Sussex and now we have a hosepipe ban. South East Water have today announced that householders cannot use hosepipes and sprinklers. 

    Apparently their water sources are currently at 88%, but South East Water's equipment cannot keep up with demand.  Surprise Surprise, people actually use more water when it is hot. SE Water is blaming the customers for the hosepipe ban, because we are not cutting down our usage, not their totally inadequate provision of water supplies and failure to fix leaks quickly enough. Admittedly we've had no rain for 33 days in parts of Kent, but we had an extremely wet spring and shouldn't be in this position so soon.

    The South East is the most water stressed part of the country, yet more and more housing is being built with a totally inadequate water supply system.  When it doesn't rain for a few weeks they can't supply enough water, but  when it rains too much the water companies pour raw sewage into our rivers and seas. Water companies need to be held to account for their failings.
    I think they should appoint you as chief exec. You'd get it sorted.
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    edited June 2023
    A few years ago I had air con installed in my house and while the work was being done I overheard a passer by question why it was needed because in his opinion we only have one or two hot days a year in this country. I suspect he had a dad who used to say something similar about having air con in cars and his grandad before him about not needing air con in offices and shops. This country has always been warm in summer, with a few wet exceptions, and it’s getting hotter. We have yet to collectively fully adjust to it as a nation but we’re getting there. Charlton Life in ten years time will see posters reminiscing about growing up in their parents house and suffering with the heat and the young CL posters not believing them…as they turn up the chill factor on their seat in the covered end another notch…

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    A few years ago I had air con installed in my house and while the work was being done I overheard a passer by question why it was needed because in his opinion we only have one or two hot days a year in this country. I suspect he had a dad who used to say something similar about having air con in cars and his grandad before him about not needing air con in offices and shops. This country has always been warm in summer, with a few wet exceptions, and it’s getting hotter. We have yet to collectively fully adjust to it as a nation but we’re getting there. Charlton Life in ten years time will see posters reminiscing about growing up in their parents house and suffering with the heat and the young CL posters not believing them…as they turn up the chill factor on their seat in the covered end another notch…

    Houses get less hot than cars though, as they get more shade and you can draw the curtains to stop the sun shining in. And they're not made of metal, so don't heat up as much. Therefore while I wouldn't buy a car without aircon now, I can live without it at home. 

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    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
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    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    They probably need the extra water for all those grapevines being planted as it slowly becomes the ‘new-Champagne’ region, the ‘old’ one slowly heading to be a heavy-red only region in the next 50 years. The country already produces the best sparkling whites in the world, we just need to start producing more of them and the champagne companies are doing their bit by all accounts. Keep calm and carry on using a watering can in one hand and a glass of something very drinkable and English in the other 
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    cooler here (N Lincs) today, heavy rain is on the way, AND it is much needed
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    We have light rain falling in Maidstone.
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    Spent all of yesterday by Newcastle Quayside painting and it was brutal.. today was much nicer/better conditions. Off to Gozo on Monday for a week, luckily the heats not dropping off there and we'll have a pool to cool off in. 
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    shine166 said:
    Spent all of yesterday by Newcastle Quayside painting and it was brutal.. today was much nicer/better conditions. Off to Gozo on Monday for a week, luckily the heats not dropping off there and we'll have a pool to cool off in. 
    Beautiful place. 
    Enjoy 
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    Today has been horrible. Overcast with some sun but very humid and around 24 degrees. I’m very glad I invested in an air con unit for the bedroom. Takes the sting out of these hot humid nights. Downpours expected tomorrow.
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    Our rain today lasted 5 minutes, hoping that we get the predicted heavy rain tomorrow. 
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    shine166 said:
    Spent all of yesterday by Newcastle Quayside painting and it was brutal.. today was much nicer/better conditions. Off to Gozo on Monday for a week, luckily the heats not dropping off there and we'll have a pool to cool off in. 
    Beautiful place. 
    Enjoy 
    Yeah Gozo I loved although Malta I was not overly struck by. Gozo is tiny and nice and quiet 
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    Big thunderstorm and heavy rain here in East Sussex, hopefully the water butt will be nice and full.
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    Big thunderstorm and heavy rain here in East Sussex, hopefully the water butt will be nice and full.
    I have been told that my butt is nice and full also.
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    shine166 said:
    Spent all of yesterday by Newcastle Quayside painting and it was brutal.. today was much nicer/better conditions. Off to Gozo on Monday for a week, luckily the heats not dropping off there and we'll have a pool to cool off in. 
    Community service?
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    Off_it said:
    shine166 said:
    Spent all of yesterday by Newcastle Quayside painting and it was brutal.. today was much nicer/better conditions. Off to Gozo on Monday for a week, luckily the heats not dropping off there and we'll have a pool to cool off in. 
    Community service?
    Haha 😄  felt like it, got heat stroke now... so unwell. 
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    Thunder, lightning and heavy rain here in Orpington for about 20 minutes in the early hours.
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    meldrew66 said:
    Thunder, lightning and heavy rain here in Orpington for about 20 minutes in the early hours.
    Indeed it was.
    Just took the dog for a walk and it's still really muggy out.
    The storm hasn't made any difference. 
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    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

    The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

    If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

    As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

    I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
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    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

    The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

    If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

    As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

    I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
    Well the long term forecasts are for more hotter and drier weather, so on that basis maybe they should just ban hosepipes for good.

    Then next they could maybe limit us to one shower a week.

    After which, maybe only two cups of water a day?
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    edited June 2023
    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

    The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

    If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

    As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

    I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
    I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?

    SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.

    The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages

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    My god it's humid. Did some weeding this morning as the ground softened a bit after last night's rain, and I'm now sweating like a bastard. Might have to change my tshirt
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    edited June 2023
    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

    The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

    If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

    As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

    I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
    I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?

    SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.

    The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages

    Water supplies are good and the recent supply issue was purely due to not being able to get the water treated and distributed quickly enough to meet the excessive demand, compounded by a burst on a trunk main and the storm outage affecting a treatment plant.

    However a TUB would never be implemented just for a short term issue like that, as it’s not even enforceable for 2 weeks and it will cost north of £0.5m.

    The TUB would have been implemented, with the current issues in mind of course, but also due to the most recent long term forecasts.

    Thry would never implement a TUB just to appease an MP.

    The shareholder comment in that report is also very misleading.

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    edited June 2023
    McBobbin said:
    My god it's humid. Did some weeding this morning as the ground softened a bit after last night's rain, and I'm now sweating like a bastard. Might have to change my tshit


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    Off_it said:
    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

    The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

    If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

    As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

    I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
    Well the long term forecasts are for more hotter and drier weather, so on that basis maybe they should just ban hosepipes for good.

    Then next they could maybe limit us to one shower a week.

    After which, maybe only two cups of water a day?
    You have more than one shower a week? How the other half live..

    Look, I don’t know what the answer is for the water companies, but the speed of climate change is impacting everything and water supply is in that category. Add in Covid as a game changer in demand for some areas and you have a perfect storm. 

    Investment is needed but you need the regulator to agree to fund it (through prices) for the next price review and customers willing to pay more and of course these schemes are never quick, so I think there will be some difficult years ahead.

    Innovation was only funded via the regulator in the last AMP (5 year cycle) and that will hopefully generate some long term solutions in the industry.
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    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

    The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

    If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

    As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

    I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
    I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?

    SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.

    The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages

    Water supplies are good and the recent supply issue was purely due to not being able to get the water treated and distributed quickly enough to meet the excessive demand, compounded by a burst on a trunk main and the storm outage affecting a treatment plant.

    However a TUB would never be implemented just for a short term issue like that, as it’s not even enforceable for 2 weeks and it will cost north of £0.5m.

    The TUB would have been implemented, with the current issues in mind of course, but also due to the most recent long term forecasts.

    The shareholder comment in that report is also very misleading.
    If water supplies are good and it was a short term supply issue, why the hosepipe ban? Surprise, surprise we get hot dry weather in summer, the forecast for the summer didn't change in 2 days.

    SE Water is failing in it's duty to supply the water its customers demand and we have no choice of supplier. Anecdotally they have actually increased usage as everyone knows that the fines cannot be implemented until 26th June, so people are washing their cars, filling water butts and watering their gardens before the ban comes into force. The PR around all of this is appalling.
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    I am aware that South East Water is a supply company only, however they should be in a position to satisfy the demand of their customers, especially when the water sources whether they be ground water or in reservoirs, are at good levels having had an exceptionally wet spring.

    The current problems have mainly affected a small area of East Sussex and Kent, so why does there need to be a hosepipe ban in areas where they can treat and supply enough water to meet demand? SE Water have said that there is plenty of water, just that they cannot treat and pump water in a few areas. How will it make it easier to pump water to those areas if I stop using my hosepipe to water new plants in my garden, which will die if not watered?

    Climate Change has been know about for many years now, the can has been kicked down the road too many times and we are now paying the price.
    As I said previously, yes water levels are not in a bad position now in the SE, however the long term forecasts are for dry and warm weather, in both cases adverse compared to ‘normal’ expectations. The bans imposed now are to help mitigate those forecasts over the coming months.

    The impact of the ban takes time, but will generally reduce demand by 10% in high demand times.

    If we get to August and lots of areas lose supply people will ask why a ban was not imposed earlier.

    As I said, it’s not a decision taken lightly. The media and communication costs associated with an implementation are significant. And it obviously reduces revenue, now I did explain that is retuned to customers in 2 years anyway, so no long term p&l benefit, but it will impact cash in the short term, just when the cost base will be taking a hammering, so again not something water companies ever want to implement.

    I don’t disagree with the last point in your post, but current management and shareholders were not responsible for those past decisions.
    I disagree, The Operations Director of SE Water spoke on tv just a couple of days before the hosepipe ban was announced and said that water supplies were good but the inability to treat and pump water sufficiently quickly to meet the demand in some areas, was the cause. Getting supplies of water to consumers is localised and is a supply issue, so if I use less water in Maidstone, how does that help people in East Sussex?

    SE Water changed their story over a period of 2 days and I believe pressure was brought on them to introduce a hosepipe ban by the MP for the Wealden area. I believe that SE Water felt they needed to be shown to be doing something, so imposed a hosepipe ban across the whole region, which is a sledge hammer to crack a nut. We have had an exceptionally wet spring and although May and early June have been dry, supplies are good and we should not be in this position now.

    The article to which I have posted a link states that SE Water is owned by Australian & Canadian private equity funds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/16/south-east-water-imposes-hosepipe-ban-after-kent-and-sussex-water-shortages

    It's a myth that our water companies are primarily owned by our own pension funds. The vast majority of UK water companies are owned by overseas investment vehicles.

    My own local company (for sewarage anyway, I pay someone else for the supply, because that makes sense...) is Wessex Water:

    "Wessex Water, which supplies more than 1 million customers in Bristol Somerset, Wiltshire and Dorset is fully owned by YTL Corporation Berhad, a Malaysian infrastructure conglomerate..."

    https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/30/more-than-70-per-cent-english-water-industry-foreign-ownership
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