Watching Plymouths goal, saw our defenders backing off and allowing him the space to move towards our box and ultimately score. This seems a familiar trait and not just with us.
Why do defenders do that, back off, rather than go to the marauding forward, fear of a mistimed challenge or what?
Dobson being nutmegged put them all in trouble. Lavelle's best bet was to do what he did - force the 20-yard shot. It went in.
Thanks but doesn't really answer the question. Allowing the player to come on to the box and giving the forward a better opportunity to score, why not tackle when further out?
I guess it all stems from the fact that if a tackle is unsuccessful it usually leads to having both opponent and ball behind the defender who is now facing the wrong way. Sometimes, defenders will just want to hold the attacking player at bay for as long as they can to give the rest of their team to get into good defensive positions. Sometimes they are waiting specially for a second defender to come up behind them so that if their tackle is unsuccessful, there's someone else to have a go (I believe that somewhere on the internet you can find a video of Jimmy Seed coaching precisely this). Often though, I suspect it comes from that inbuilt fear of being the one deemed responsible for a goal if they mis-time their tackle.
Edit - also, if the attacker has stopped, or slowed significantly, the defender may wish to force the attacker to make a move first so they've got a better chance of knowing which way to go.
Reckon that’s one of my favourite performances at the Valley, can’t really fault a player out there. I was walking out of games last season with 10-15 minutes to go, I would have watched for another half hour if I could.
Don’t really wanna echo what everyone else has said but the stand outs for me were; Albie, Clare, Kirk, Stockers and Lavelle.
Albie is unrecognisable from the last 3 managers that have had him, his passing looks a different level, his engine is better, he looks more intelligent without the ball and has been imo our best midfielder so far this season. Chuffed for him.
Clare is a cracking player at RB, strong, relatively quick, can pick a pass, composed, intelligent and my word, what a strike. He’ll look back at that in years to come with a lot of joy, amazing goal.
Stockers; fair play to him, a lot of us have written him off as the main man but I thought he was very good. Was linking play, drawing players and was creating space for the wingers. Needs to work on his finishing but good day at the office for the headmaster.
Kirk I am a huge fan of regardless, just get a good vibe about him as a player, so when I see him play like that it’s great. Genuinely think he had a solid 8-9/10 game, only more we could have asked is a bit more effort for a couple of the runs and having a shot more often.
Lavelle, fair play. Dislodged at the start and comes back with a performance like that. Felt he complimented O’Connell a lot more then Innis, seems to have a bit better instinct and quick decision making, if either of them could header as well as Innis that would be a monster centre back pairing, imagine this team could comfortably play a 5 at the back with those 3.
For the first time in fk knows how long, I am actually very excited for the weekend to watch my team play.
Ok it was Plymouth and not Man C, but that was undoubtedly one of the best Charlton performances I've ever seen & 8 of the starting outfield 10 were with us last season. Garner is looking like he may be a magician.
In one of my more boring posts at the end of last season I wrote Ahhhmm: "keep the entire squad, spend all your money on a manager" Gee I'm waisted on this planet...
In one of my more boring posts at the end of last season I wrote Ahhhmm: "keep the entire squad, spend all your money on a manager" Gee I'm waisted on this planet...
In one of my more boring posts at the end of last season I wrote Ahhhmm: "keep the entire squad, spend all your money on a manager" Gee I'm waisted on this planet...
I remember this passage from the game and am pretty sure we gave the ball away in a dangerous position just after the clip ends! Don't mention it to be a buzzkill, more with excitement that we can still improve. Accrington game we had a lot of sketchy moments passing out from the back and this is light years ahead of that - if we keep getting better then this really could be a season to remember.
Reckon that’s one of my favourite performances at the Valley, can’t really fault a player out there. I was walking out of games last season with 10-15 minutes to go, I would have watched for another half hour if I could.
Don’t really wanna echo what everyone else has said but the stand outs for me were; Albie, Clare, Kirk, Stockers and Lavelle.
Albie is unrecognisable from the last 3 managers that have had him, his passing looks a different level, his engine is better, he looks more intelligent without the ball and has been imo our best midfielder so far this season. Chuffed for him.
Clare is a cracking player at RB, strong, relatively quick, can pick a pass, composed, intelligent and my word, what a strike. He’ll look back at that in years to come with a lot of joy, amazing goal.
Stockers; fair play to him, a lot of us have written him off as the main man but I thought he was very good. Was linking play, drawing players and was creating space for the wingers. Needs to work on his finishing but good day at the office for the headmaster.
Kirk I am a huge fan of regardless, just get a good vibe about him as a player, so when I see him play like that it’s great. Genuinely think he had a solid 8-9/10 game, only more we could have asked is a bit more effort for a couple of the runs and having a shot more often.
Lavelle, fair play. Dislodged at the start and comes back with a performance like that. Felt he complimented O’Connell a lot more then Innis, seems to have a bit better instinct and quick decision making, if either of them could header as well as Innis that would be a monster centre back pairing, imagine this team could comfortably play a 5 at the back with those 3.
For the first time in fk knows how long, I am actually very excited for the weekend to watch my team play.
Long May it continue Addicks!
My view of Stockley is that he is completely ineffective when trying to hold the line alone.
On Tuesday night he was well supported, so the critism still stands. Not a dig at him but the way he has been used at times.
An OK side, harshly reduced to 10 men, was put to the sword and we witnessed a goal of the season contender, all good fun at the time. But the silver lining of last night's outcome comes with its own big, dark cloud: Goals came from across the team - Skintgaard will use that as justification for no backup for Stockers - Miles Leaburn is great to watch but he's 18 FFS and has 5 appearances total i.e. not shoulders onto which the burden of being lone striker at least until January should sensibly be put Kirk's name appears in the stats as goal scorer and assist provider but his goal deflected in off a defender and nobody saw a goal coming from that pass to Clare, that worldy was all Sean's own work. Last night was Kirk's best showing but that is the feintest of feint praise, there are to date no other performances worthy of the name Charles Clayden might be 21 but he has just 5 league appearances to date, is that realistically sufficient backup to Sessegnon as our only other leftback of any kind? Sean Clare was excellent last night but he's all we've got at right back. Jack Payne was a headless chicken and gave away the goal. McGrandles has been awful so far. O'Connell is the slowest CH I've seen play for Charlton. Fraser can't last 90 minutes. Chuks and Inniss are made of glass.
We're an injury and a suspension away from not having an adequate squad. Saturday's decline against Wednesday is a way more likely template than last night's one off.
The owner's illegally sacking valuable staff to penny pinch a few thousand in favour of stoopid free drink promos - he ain't gonna be coming up with the fees or salaries for adequate cover for the blatantly thin patches in this squad. It hangs on wishes and lots of luck...
Give the negative a rest mate. We played well endof. Been following the club since 1986 and this was one off the best and complete team performances I have ever soon. Why all the negative after a 5-1? Was you at the same game as everyone else? I am still buzzing and can't wait until Saturday. I haven't felt like that for ages. Hate these moaners even after a win like that? Either join the "ride" or get of the bus and go support Millwall or something.
You telling other fans to basically fuck off and support another club is more a negative. He is entitled to his view and to make his point on a forum even if it doesn't sit well with you.
The crowd was low, someone has already suggested less a figure in reality than stated by the club. The club needs more revenue as stated by TS so telling other fans to support other teams is 'negative'.
A wonderful evening's entertainment and an excellent team performance, with every man Jack. I thought it was a level above anything a Charlton side have produced for some time and each and every one of the 15 players who took to the field knew exactly what their job was - testament to the fine work which is clearly being done at Sparrow's Lane.
It was also a bit of a tactical masterclass from Ben Garner. We kept our two wingers high up the pitch to pin back Plymouth's wing backs and both Charles Clayden and Sean Clare regularly charged forward in support during the first half, with our midfielders filling in any gaps behind. When Plymouth's wing backs did try to venture forward, we ruthlessly exploited the space between them and the centre-backs (much as many teams did to us last season). In the second half, with Plymouth down to 10 men, Clayden almost played like a left winger, with Kirky working highly effectively in tandem. We kept the ball, made the pitch big and were patient in waiting for openings, rather than trying to force the issue. Much tougher tests lie ahead but there is an intelligence, discipline and tactical fluidity about this team that we haven't seen for a long time and it augurs well for our prospects this season. It is also - at the risk of understatement - very much easier on the eye.
As to the game itself, we started exceptionally well, with good movement and passing, allied to effective pressing against an erratic Plymouth defence. Jes Rak-Sakyi was electric and I think we are going to have some fun this season watching him and Blackett-Taylor terrorising League 1 defences. After a traumatic first 25 minutes or so, Plymouth got back into the game but the red card and penalty to make it 2-0 more or less killed the game as a contest and Clare's screamer just before half time removed any vestige of doubt. We upped the tempo after Plymouth pulled a goal back and, by the end of the evening, they had been well and truly marmalised.
I was hoping for a 6th goal, as I can't remember us doing that in a league game at The Valley since the 1970s, when I think we managed it 3 times - I saw the 6-0 and 6-1 wins against Swansea and Notts County in August 1972 and it would have been a neat way to mark the 50th anniversary of those 6-goal salvos (50 years !). I hope we've saved a couple of goals for Cambridge on Saturday. After that, the next two league games are away at Wycombe and Bolton - leading teams at this level - but this side need fear no one.
The only negative feature of the evening (apart from the news earlier about Olly's dismissal) was the very small home crowd. I see that the total attendance was announced at 12,392, including 1,160 away supporters. That equates to 11,232 Charlton supporters, which is a total fiction - I doubt that there were more than 7,000 home supporters in the ground at most. In other words, the club have reneged on the undertaking given towards the end of last season that the figures announced would reflect the actual number of spectators in the ground. I suppose one explanation is that Thomas Sandgaard is attempting to gloss over the impact of a pricing policy for League 1 football which is doomed to fail in the teeth of UK-wide inflation of over 10% - with worse to come in the coming months.
Time for a rethink.
I don’t think there is any reneging - they just include season ticket holders which weren’t there - what they don’t do I would suggest, which they were doing, is include freebies
In one of my more boring posts at the end of last season I wrote Ahhhmm: "keep the entire squad, spend all your money on a manager" Gee I'm waisted on this planet...
Is that 32” waisted? :-)
Ha !!! I wish... currently waisted around the planet...
Bravo to Scoham for showing that and will the CL members who are doubting Scott Fraser, please note that he is very important in the evolution of the way Ben Garner wants to play.
That was pure poetry on a football field with every player linking up with team mates with a calmness rarely seen by Cafc.
An OK side, harshly reduced to 10 men, was put to the sword and we witnessed a goal of the season contender, all good fun at the time. But the silver lining of last night's outcome comes with its own big, dark cloud: Goals came from across the team - Skintgaard will use that as justification for no backup for Stockers - Miles Leaburn is great to watch but he's 18 FFS and has 5 appearances total i.e. not shoulders onto which the burden of being lone striker at least until January should sensibly be put Kirk's name appears in the stats as goal scorer and assist provider but his goal deflected in off a defender and nobody saw a goal coming from that pass to Clare, that worldy was all Sean's own work. Last night was Kirk's best showing but that is the feintest of feint praise, there are to date no other performances worthy of the name Charles Clayden might be 21 but he has just 5 league appearances to date, is that realistically sufficient backup to Sessegnon as our only other leftback of any kind? Sean Clare was excellent last night but he's all we've got at right back. Jack Payne was a headless chicken and gave away the goal. McGrandles has been awful so far. O'Connell is the slowest CH I've seen play for Charlton. Fraser can't last 90 minutes. Chuks and Inniss are made of glass.
We're an injury and a suspension away from not having an adequate squad. Saturday's decline against Wednesday is a way more likely template than last night's one off.
The owner's illegally sacking valuable staff to penny pinch a few thousand in favour of stoopid free drink promos - he ain't gonna be coming up with the fees or salaries for adequate cover for the blatantly thin patches in this squad. It hangs on wishes and lots of luck...
Give the negative a rest mate. We played well endof. Been following the club since 1986 and this was one off the best and complete team performances I have ever soon. Why all the negative after a 5-1? Was you at the same game as everyone else? I am still buzzing and can't wait until Saturday. I haven't felt like that for ages. Hate these moaners even after a win like that? Either join the "ride" or get of the bus and go support Millwall or something.
You telling other fans to basically fuck off and support another club is more a negative. He is entitled to his view and to make his point on a forum even if it doesn't sit well with you.
The crowd was low, someone has already suggested less a figure in reality than stated by the club. The club needs more revenue as stated by TS so telling other fans to support other teams is 'negative'.
Ideally the club should give both figures. The number of fans who have paid to see a match is important, But so is the number who actually turn up. At this time of the year are attendances down across the Leagues? I’d so far less the higher up the pyramid you go.
My Arsenal season ticket holder mate is able to ask the club to sell his seat if he’s away, I believe. They probably get the full price for the seat, and he’d get a percentage (what he pays per match) back. Win win.
But in the lower leagues there isn’t the demand, so such a scheme wouldn’t be cost effective.
So DJ is seemingly 5th choice wide forward, and for good reason. Wonder if he'll be considered surplus to requirements?
Kirk has had one good game, and CBT is an injury risk. Why the desire to write DJ off? He's versatile, has good attributes for this style of football. Will be needed sooner rather than later
So DJ is seemingly 5th choice wide forward, and for good reason. Wonder if he'll be considered surplus to requirements?
Kirk has had one good game, and CBT is an injury risk. Why the desire to write DJ off? He's versatile, has good attributes for this style of football. Will be needed sooner rather than later
So DJ is seemingly 5th choice wide forward, and for good reason. Wonder if he'll be considered surplus to requirements?
Kirk has had one good game, and CBT is an injury risk. Why the desire to write DJ off? He's versatile, has good attributes for this style of football. Will be needed sooner rather than later
Dont think Balham is writing DJ off...
But it is clear that in four games; Kirk has started three of them, DJ just the one in the League - Kirk | CBT | Leaburn have all appeared in more games, whilst Rak-Sakyi hasn't joined to be so far down the pecking order
Still basking in the enjoyment of Tuesday night. Some superb performances, with Clare, Albie and Kirk the pick of the bunch. Albie showing he can cut it at this level while, hopefully, Kirk can take confidence from his performance and goal to kick on.
Clare goal an absolute belter. Wish BG would encourage more shots from distance.
Remember Bobby Charlton saying Sir Matt Busby told him to shoot whenever he had the goal in his sights because “if you don’t shoot, you don’t score.” That advice didn’t do Bobby any harm.
So DJ is seemingly 5th choice wide forward, and for good reason. Wonder if he'll be considered surplus to requirements?
Kirk has had one good game, and CBT is an injury risk. Why the desire to write DJ off? He's versatile, has good attributes for this style of football. Will be needed sooner rather than later
Since he was signed, I reckon DJ has developed a much more rounded game, particularly with his improved defensive awareness. Jacko playing him at wingback last season obviously contributed to this.
But maybe defensive awareness has contained some of his flair? It does seem he's playing a little within himself and not with the attacking verve he showed at Swindon and when he first came here.
Maybe it's a confidence issue? Or a matter of his consistancy? Perhaps he's considered as not having enough goals in his game or just doesn't fit into Garner's new system as well as our other wide players?
He has proved a degree of adaptability. Maybe he'll get the chance to prove his worth here in a different role? If not, it'll probably be better for the player if he's moved on.
I hope DJ can learn from the other wingers. He does have things to offer. That tackle and through ball for Clayden v Derby was excellent. He needs to become more productive, cut out those twists/turns which lead to running out of pitch and just getting closer to a defender.
Handy to have a forward who can play left and right.
So DJ is seemingly 5th choice wide forward, and for good reason. Wonder if he'll be considered surplus to requirements?
Kirk has had one good game, and CBT is an injury risk. Why the desire to write DJ off? He's versatile, has good attributes for this style of football. Will be needed sooner rather than later
DJs main problem is that he's not as good at fancy footwork as JRS, as fast as CBT or able to pick out the same kind of passes as Kirk. He's a perfectly adequate, even decent, winger/forward at this level but up against others who all just have a USP which he doesn't at present.
You could maybe argue he's the best at defending/tracking back but under the new system attack IS defense so it won't avail him much.
I'd still keep him as cover for injuries etc mind you, he'll just have to be coached/managed in the expectations of not being first choice.
So DJ is seemingly 5th choice wide forward, and for good reason. Wonder if he'll be considered surplus to requirements?
Kirk has had one good game, and CBT is an injury risk. Why the desire to write DJ off? He's versatile, has good attributes for this style of football. Will be needed sooner rather than later
Dont think Balham is writing DJ off...
But it is clear that in four games; Kirk has started three of them, DJ just the one in the League - Kirk | CBT | Leaburn have all appeared in more games, whilst Rak-Sakyi hasn't joined to be so far down the pecking order
I think people are also a little confused because (touching wood) all our CMs and wide forwards are actually fit!
Purley on numbers we have 1 too many CMs and are a center half and center foward short.
There will be times when 2 or 3 very good players don't make the bench. We haven't, consistently, had that for a long time.
Even if we ended the window with the squad we have now there is no one in it that is so awful that you can't use them even if you wanted to (there was last year).
DJ may well be 5th choice at the moment, so might not even make the bench Saturday, but next mid week Leaburn might start at CF, Kirk rested, suddenly he is on the bench with a very high chance of playing 30+ minutes, at worst.
So DJ is seemingly 5th choice wide forward, and for good reason. Wonder if he'll be considered surplus to requirements?
Kirk has had one good game, and CBT is an injury risk. Why the desire to write DJ off? He's versatile, has good attributes for this style of football. Will be needed sooner rather than later
Dont think Balham is writing DJ off...
But it is clear that in four games; Kirk has started three of them, DJ just the one in the League - Kirk | CBT | Leaburn have all appeared in more games, whilst Rak-Sakyi hasn't joined to be so far down the pecking order
Correct, I wasn't writing him off, just making an observation.
Considering we have Kirk, CBT, JRS and Leaburn ahead of him, and Payne as another option for the position, DJ is well down the pecking order.
Yes it's nice to have players in reserve, but in a world of squad number caps, and TS trying to control the losses, DJ does feel slightly surplus, when we have gaps elsewhere in the squad.
In an ideal world I’d keep DJ for the reasons above but if him moving on means we can better utilise the squad numbers and money then I think on that basis he’s dispensable.
Comments
Edit - also, if the attacker has stopped, or slowed significantly, the defender may wish to force the attacker to make a move first so they've got a better chance of knowing which way to go.
Garner is looking like he may be a magician.
Gee I'm waisted on this planet...
On Tuesday night he was well supported, so the critism still stands. Not a dig at him but the way he has been used at times.
The crowd was low, someone has already suggested less a figure in reality than stated by the club. The club needs more revenue as stated by TS so telling other fans to support other teams is 'negative'.
Bravo to Scoham for showing that and will the CL members who are doubting Scott Fraser, please note that he is very important in the evolution of the way Ben Garner wants to play.
That was pure poetry on a football field with every player linking up with team mates with a calmness rarely seen by Cafc.
At this time of the year are attendances down across the Leagues? I’d so far less the higher up the pyramid you go.
But it is clear that in four games; Kirk has started three of them, DJ just the one in the League - Kirk | CBT | Leaburn have all appeared in more games, whilst Rak-Sakyi hasn't joined to be so far down the pecking order
Jacko playing him at wingback last season obviously contributed to this.
But maybe defensive awareness has contained some of his flair?
It does seem he's playing a little within himself and not with the attacking verve he showed at Swindon and when he first came here.
Maybe it's a confidence issue?
Or a matter of his consistancy?
Perhaps he's considered as not having enough goals in his game or just doesn't fit into Garner's new system as well as our other wide players?
He has proved a degree of adaptability. Maybe he'll get the chance to prove his worth here in a different role?
If not, it'll probably be better for the player if he's moved on.
Handy to have a forward who can play left and right.
You could maybe argue he's the best at defending/tracking back but under the new system attack IS defense so it won't avail him much.
I'd still keep him as cover for injuries etc mind you, he'll just have to be coached/managed in the expectations of not being first choice.
Purley on numbers we have 1 too many CMs and are a center half and center foward short.
There will be times when 2 or 3 very good players don't make the bench. We haven't, consistently, had that for a long time.
Even if we ended the window with the squad we have now there is no one in it that is so awful that you can't use them even if you wanted to (there was last year).
DJ may well be 5th choice at the moment, so might not even make the bench Saturday, but next mid week Leaburn might start at CF, Kirk rested, suddenly he is on the bench with a very high chance of playing 30+ minutes, at worst.
Yes it's nice to have players in reserve, but in a world of squad number caps, and TS trying to control the losses, DJ does feel slightly surplus, when we have gaps elsewhere in the squad.