Jacko should have been given the caretaker role with a view to a contract at the end of season.
That would have shut the fans up and also given the Club/'Owners' a season to see if JJ had more about him than the new Manager purple patch. A club with people who know the game might have done this.
In fairness I don't think there is a club in the world that wouldn't have been pressured into appointing a club legend as permanent manager after the results he got in those first 10-15 games.
Agree, but the TS narrative that he had a certain date/number of games (I can't remember exactly) put pressure on the situation, so the fans acted upon the fact he was a Club legend, has a nice hair style and we were getting consistent wins (while performing that magic word - pressing).
I havent missed a game home or away either at the game or via the stream for years. After this that's it for me until the twat is gone and that is from someone who defended him but this is just plain stupid. I dread to think what the idiot is going to do next.
We need to get behind the players to avoid relegation
There is mitigation with the battering our supporters/critics have taken but unfortunately with our fan base you are more likely to hear "your not fit to wear the shirt" and booing than support to our struggling players.
The fact that Matthew Southall is having the last laugh after Thomas Southall did his best work in seeing off the greedy chancer just makes me sad that the odious pond life that is Southall is enjoying our continuous troubles.
If Richard Murray and Peter Varney tenure was the blue print of how to run a football club and garner support until they fell out then Thomas Sandgaard is the blue print on how not to do it after a good start in seeing off the bad guys. The smell of Roland Duchatelet still lingers over the valley and Sparrows lane with only his demise possibly offering a solution if Roderick Duchatelet is more accommodating.
The catch 22 is who with altruistic reasons would take over a struggling League 1 club with falling attendances in the 2022/23 season in a football world dominated by the elitist Premier league and Champions League ?
The Murray way of running the club got us here remember. When he recognised that they did not have the money to run the club he should have sold it in the early 2000s before relegation. There were any number of extremely wealthy people looking to buy into the prem. That is old history and we need to worry for the now.
Garner was always going to be a long term project. His style was going to take time to bed in and it was going to take a few transfer windows to get the right players in for the system. I also agree with him that this is about getting the culture of the club transformed so that it was accustomed to a ball playing style. It can be hard to implement in league one but not impossible with the right level of investment. Along the way there were going to be tough spells with poor results. I accepted this would be the case. I had written this season off but fancied we'd see improvement next year. Axing him now makes the past few months pointless.
The club has no direction and no strategy and ultimately the owner is to blame for that. I appreciate him for keeping the club afloat...still... but his heart doesn't appear to be in it any more and hopefully another lunatic will rear their head shortly and want to buy a hugely loss making club with no real estate.
I live in hope. One day we may return to a reasonable level of football but that day look a long way off right now.
Garner was always going to be a long term project. His style was going to take time to bed in and it was going to take a few transfer windows to get the right players in for the system. I also agree with him that this is about getting the culture of the club transformed so that it was accustomed to a ball playing style. It can be hard to implement in league one but not impossible with the right level of investment. Along the way there were going to be tough spells with poor results. I accepted this would be the case. I had written this season off but fancied we'd see improvement next year. Axing him now makes the past few months pointless.
The club has no direction and no strategy and ultimately the owner is to blame for that. I appreciate him for keeping the club afloat...still... but his heart doesn't appear to be in it any more and hopefully another lunatic will rear their head shortly and want to buy a hugely loss making club with no real estate.
I live in hope. One day we may return to a reasonable level of football but that day look a long way off right now.
We're in L1 so the idea of a long term strategy seems a bit laughable. Trying to play football that you don't have the players for doesn't suggest he's cut out for the real world.
You can get all the coaching badges you want but it's a bit meaningless if you keep getting poor results.
I havent missed a game home or away either at the game or via the stream for years. After this that's it for me until the twat is gone and that is from someone who defended him but this is just plain stupid. I dread to think what the idiot is going to do next.
We need to get behind the players to avoid relegation
There is mitigation with the battering our supporters/critics have taken but unfortunately with our fan base you are more likely to hear "your not fit to wear the shirt" and booing than support to our struggling players.
The fact that Matthew Southall is having the last laugh after Thomas Southall did his best work in seeing off the greedy chancer just makes me sad that the odious pond life that is Southall is enjoying our continuous troubles.
If Richard Murray and Peter Varney tenure was the blue print of how to run a football club and garner support until they fell out then Thomas Sandgaard is the blue print on how not to do it after a good start in seeing off the bad guys. The smell of Roland Duchatelet still lingers over the valley and Sparrows lane with only his demise possibly offering a solution if Roderick Duchatelet is more accommodating.
The catch 22 is who with altruistic reasons would take over a struggling League 1 club with falling attendances in the 2022/23 season in a football world dominated by the elitist Premier league and Champions League ?
The Murray way of running the club got us here remember. When he recognised that they did not have the money to run the club he should have sold it in the early 2000s before relegation. There were any number of extremely wealthy people looking to buy into the prem. That is old history and we need to worry for the now.
Agree, you are correct Murray should have sold when we were worth buying when we were in the Premier or do what Parish and his two sleeping partners did and get new money to keep the Surrey team in the Premier even if you lose 100% Control.
Did I really need to say Richard Murray part 1 of his tenure ? I thought that was a Shay Given that the day he decided to give the rocket scientist and ex male model Iain Dowie the Job we have been heading south and the Charlton Premier days are just to be watched on a big screen before we kick off against Accrington Stanley or Cheltenham in the 3rd tier where we are now established unfortunately. Murray lost his Midas touch long ago and like a poor punter just kept backing the wrong horse.
Garner was always going to be a long term project. His style was going to take time to bed in and it was going to take a few transfer windows to get the right players in for the system. I also agree with him that this is about getting the culture of the club transformed so that it was accustomed to a ball playing style. It can be hard to implement in league one but not impossible with the right level of investment. Along the way there were going to be tough spells with poor results. I accepted this would be the case. I had written this season off but fancied we'd see improvement next year. Axing him now makes the past few months pointless.
The club has no direction and no strategy and ultimately the owner is to blame for that. I appreciate him for keeping the club afloat...still... but his heart doesn't appear to be in it any more and hopefully another lunatic will rear their head shortly and want to buy a hugely loss making club with no real estate.
I live in hope. One day we may return to a reasonable level of football but that day look a long way off right now.
I reckon Garner got the bullet for speaking out, he possibly did this on purpose to force Sandgaard's hand.
@Chunes do you think TS had another bod in mind then?
Someone who he'd either have to pay compo for, or out of contract "well known" face who'd presumably cost quite a bit more than the caretaker manager / former player.
Would love to know who he was lining up instead of JJ at the time, if anybody, I genuinely would
I'm not sure he had a particular person in mind but I think he wanted his own man. I think you only have to look at the stitch-up contract he gave JJ (and the 'Mission Impossible' it contained in terms of final league position) to see that he didn't want him.
I don't think he took JJ because he was cheap, he took him because he didn't have a choice. The fanbase would've gone turbo apeshit if he didn't - we were on a great run, the team were playing really well, he'd earned it. It only fell apart when JJ got the contract.
I just think TS had nothing to lose by appointing JJ and convinced it would have been the cheapest way to go about replacing Adkins at the time.
The fact he had the fans blessing was a bonus and I wouldn't put it passed TS to style it out a bit, so it looked like he was going out his way to please the fan base by not appointing his :mystery" first choice
wouldn't call egbo or wollacot fourth division players. there are diamonds in the rough
I think all the 'we only brought in League 2 players' thing is a bit of an easy cop-out anyway to be honest. Wollacott and Egbo are good as you say, but O'Connell is a decent player and has spent more of his career in L1 than L2. Payne has clearly lost his way a bit (might help if he ever got a run in the team) but has spent the vast majority of his career in L1and was a clear standout for Swindon in L2 the one season he was there. We got two Premier League loans in. I'm not really willing to be drawn on McGrandles, he's had a horrible season with injuries and we've just not seen him enough. On the face of it though, signing a player who had just had two very good seasons for a L1 team is more or less what we should be doing
The bigger problem is we lost loads of players, replaced some of them but did nothing about the unsuited players we already had. Lavelle has been truly atrocious, Morgan has reverted to being Morgan, Stockley has scored one goal in open play. Kirk continues to do one good thing every 6 games, DJ has been injured but I somehow don't think he'd have saved us if he wasn't. We made signings to plug gaps but we're still requiring one of Inniss or Lavelle to play as a passing CB every week because we weren't willing to bring in enough signings to overhaul the whole team. We don't have a striker suited to playing the way we play and the only options are a disaster or a player whose fitness record is impossibly bad.
I'd actually rather have an entire squad of players signed from L2 that are suited to the way the team is trying to play than the mish-mash of nothing we currently have. We got Garner in telling him to get the team to play the most energy-sapping, technical way possible and gave him not even half a toolbox to do it with. I'd rather have Wollacott than Mac, Egbo than Gunter and Matthews, O'Connell than Famewo and JRS than Leko but it's meaningless when the overall set-up is broken. I don't hate the signings, I hate that there were nowhere near enough of them to compete
Despite the calamatous error by Mc Goalkeeper this w/e,(over a season he was better than average L1 GK) Wollacot was an investment (time and money) we didn't actually need when there were more urgent priorities in defence and attack. At the time it was thought to be an upgrade throughout the team but as it turned out it was one of few.
MacKeeper, as you say, has a decent record in this division and shot-stopping is his strength - but he's a traditional style keeper.
Garner wanted something different, a keeper who could also play out short passes with his feet. Thus Wollocott was brought in - because he was already proven to play Garner's style of football.
absolutely agree Oggie, if other squad positions had been filled/improved-everybodies happy. But as one of the few acquisitions made- did we need left sided defender also additional striker more?
Good question, KK ...... but usually during the summer a list is drawn up and players signed as they become available. It's generally only supporters who tend to prioritise.
My hunch, based on snippets I remember reading in the summer, is that some players were being signed as they became available - until Sangaard pulled the plug with budget and some positions not filled. Hence the need for another striker and LB still exists today.
Sandgaard had deemed another striker was unnecessary and wouldn't be signed- but we now know Garner pursued Bonne as the window was shutting. Act of defiance?
Of course, Wollocott was signed when he became available. If the desired LB had been available first, perhaps he would already have been signed before Wollocott - and Wollocott not signed at all?
wouldn't call egbo or wollacot fourth division players. there are diamonds in the rough
I think all the 'we only brought in League 2 players' thing is a bit of an easy cop-out anyway to be honest. Wollacott and Egbo are good as you say, but O'Connell is a decent player and has spent more of his career in L1 than L2. Payne has clearly lost his way a bit (might help if he ever got a run in the team) but has spent the vast majority of his career in L1and was a clear standout for Swindon in L2 the one season he was there. We got two Premier League loans in. I'm not really willing to be drawn on McGrandles, he's had a horrible season with injuries and we've just not seen him enough. On the face of it though, signing a player who had just had two very good seasons for a L1 team is more or less what we should be doing
The bigger problem is we lost loads of players, replaced some of them but did nothing about the unsuited players we already had. Lavelle has been truly atrocious, Morgan has reverted to being Morgan, Stockley has scored one goal in open play. Kirk continues to do one good thing every 6 games, DJ has been injured but I somehow don't think he'd have saved us if he wasn't. We made signings to plug gaps but we're still requiring one of Inniss or Lavelle to play as a passing CB every week because we weren't willing to bring in enough signings to overhaul the whole team. We don't have a striker suited to playing the way we play and the only options are a disaster or a player whose fitness record is impossibly bad.
I'd actually rather have an entire squad of players signed from L2 that are suited to the way the team is trying to play than the mish-mash of nothing we currently have. We got Garner in telling him to get the team to play the most energy-sapping, technical way possible and gave him not even half a toolbox to do it with. I'd rather have Wollacott than Mac, Egbo than Gunter and Matthews, O'Connell than Famewo and JRS than Leko but it's meaningless when the overall set-up is broken. I don't hate the signings, I hate that there were nowhere near enough of them to compete
Despite the calamatous error by Mc Goalkeeper this w/e,(over a season he was better than average L1 GK) Wollacot was an investment (time and money) we didn't actually need when there were more urgent priorities in defence and attack. At the time it was thought to be an upgrade throughout the team but as it turned out it was one of few.
MacKeeper, as you say, has a decent record in this division and shot-stopping is his strength - but he's a traditional style keeper.
Garner wanted something different, a keeper who could also play out short passes with his feet. Thus Wollocott was brought in - because he was already proven to play Garner's style of football.
absolutely agree Oggie, if other squad positions had been filled/improved-everybodies happy. But as one of the few acquisitions made- did we need left sided defender also additional striker more?
Good question, KK ...... but usually during the summer a list is drawn up and players signed as they become available. It's generally only supporters who tend to prioritise.
My hunch, based on snippets I remember reading in the summer, is that some players were being signed as they became available - until Sangaard pulled the plug with budget and some positions not filled. Hence the need for another striker and LB still exists today.
Sandgaard had deemed another striker was unnecessary and wouldn't be signed- but we now know Garner pursued Bonne as the window was shutting. Act of defiance?
Of course, Wollocott was signed when he became available. If the desired LB had been available first, perhaps he would already have been signed before Wollocott - and Wollocott not signed at all?
This looks to be what happened. Garner will have pushed for a striker and had to lose money from the wage bill to make it happen. Hence Gilbey and DJ was on his way until QPR changed the agreement.
wouldn't call egbo or wollacot fourth division players. there are diamonds in the rough
I think all the 'we only brought in League 2 players' thing is a bit of an easy cop-out anyway to be honest. Wollacott and Egbo are good as you say, but O'Connell is a decent player and has spent more of his career in L1 than L2. Payne has clearly lost his way a bit (might help if he ever got a run in the team) but has spent the vast majority of his career in L1and was a clear standout for Swindon in L2 the one season he was there. We got two Premier League loans in. I'm not really willing to be drawn on McGrandles, he's had a horrible season with injuries and we've just not seen him enough. On the face of it though, signing a player who had just had two very good seasons for a L1 team is more or less what we should be doing
The bigger problem is we lost loads of players, replaced some of them but did nothing about the unsuited players we already had. Lavelle has been truly atrocious, Morgan has reverted to being Morgan, Stockley has scored one goal in open play. Kirk continues to do one good thing every 6 games, DJ has been injured but I somehow don't think he'd have saved us if he wasn't. We made signings to plug gaps but we're still requiring one of Inniss or Lavelle to play as a passing CB every week because we weren't willing to bring in enough signings to overhaul the whole team. We don't have a striker suited to playing the way we play and the only options are a disaster or a player whose fitness record is impossibly bad.
I'd actually rather have an entire squad of players signed from L2 that are suited to the way the team is trying to play than the mish-mash of nothing we currently have. We got Garner in telling him to get the team to play the most energy-sapping, technical way possible and gave him not even half a toolbox to do it with. I'd rather have Wollacott than Mac, Egbo than Gunter and Matthews, O'Connell than Famewo and JRS than Leko but it's meaningless when the overall set-up is broken. I don't hate the signings, I hate that there were nowhere near enough of them to compete
Despite the calamatous error by Mc Goalkeeper this w/e,(over a season he was better than average L1 GK) Wollacot was an investment (time and money) we didn't actually need when there were more urgent priorities in defence and attack. At the time it was thought to be an upgrade throughout the team but as it turned out it was one of few.
MacKeeper, as you say, has a decent record in this division and shot-stopping is his strength - but he's a traditional style keeper.
Garner wanted something different, a keeper who could also play out short passes with his feet. Thus Wollocott was brought in - because he was already proven to play Garner's style of football.
absolutely agree Oggie, if other squad positions had been filled/improved-everybodies happy. But as one of the few acquisitions made- did we need left sided defender also additional striker more?
Good question, KK ...... but usually during the summer a list is drawn up and players signed as they become available. It's generally only supporters who tend to prioritise.
My hunch, based on snippets I remember reading in the summer, is that some players were being signed as they became available - until Sangaard pulled the plug with budget and some positions not filled. Hence the need for another striker and LB still exists today.
Sandgaard had deemed another striker was unnecessary and wouldn't be signed- but we now know Garner pursued Bonne as the window was shutting. Act of defiance?
Of course, Wollocott was signed when he became available. If the desired LB had been available first, perhaps he would already have been signed before Wollocott - and Wollocott not signed at all?
This looks to be what happened. Garner will have pushed for a striker and had to lose money from the wage bill to make it happen. Hence Gilbey and DJ was on his way until QPR changed the agreement.
We already had agreed deal with a striker the one Garner wanted but he signed for Huddersfield , we hoped to get him on loan but did not happen in the last day .. we went after a Millwall striker and late in the day went for Bonne who we had .. but QPR failed to get the kid from Villa and changed the deal
The depressing thought is that we might need a safe pair of hands like Jackett to steer us away from any relegation threat. From the third division.
After last night, L1 survival has to be the top priority, as the playoffs are miles away. Someone to organise us, make us harder to beat, find a way of using the players we have, getting a bit of confidence back into them etc
@Chunes do you think TS had another bod in mind then?
Someone who he'd either have to pay compo for, or out of contract "well known" face who'd presumably cost quite a bit more than the caretaker manager / former player.
Would love to know who he was lining up instead of JJ at the time, if anybody, I genuinely would
I'm not sure he had a particular person in mind but I think he wanted his own man. I think you only have to look at the stitch-up contract he gave JJ (and the 'Mission Impossible' it contained in terms of final league position) to see that he didn't want him.
I don't think he took JJ because he was cheap, he took him because he didn't have a choice. The fanbase would've gone turbo apeshit if he didn't - we were on a great run, the team were playing really well, he'd earned it. It only fell apart when JJ got the contract.
He also didn't give Jackson the job 6 months before then doubled down on that by publicly saying Jackson would be the next Charlton manager.
He didn't sack Adkins to give Jackson the job but once he sacked Adkins he would have looked a right mug if he hadn't.
The cop out would have been if we didn't get a new manager bounce.
wouldn't call egbo or wollacot fourth division players. there are diamonds in the rough
I think all the 'we only brought in League 2 players' thing is a bit of an easy cop-out anyway to be honest. Wollacott and Egbo are good as you say, but O'Connell is a decent player and has spent more of his career in L1 than L2. Payne has clearly lost his way a bit (might help if he ever got a run in the team) but has spent the vast majority of his career in L1and was a clear standout for Swindon in L2 the one season he was there. We got two Premier League loans in. I'm not really willing to be drawn on McGrandles, he's had a horrible season with injuries and we've just not seen him enough. On the face of it though, signing a player who had just had two very good seasons for a L1 team is more or less what we should be doing
The bigger problem is we lost loads of players, replaced some of them but did nothing about the unsuited players we already had. Lavelle has been truly atrocious, Morgan has reverted to being Morgan, Stockley has scored one goal in open play. Kirk continues to do one good thing every 6 games, DJ has been injured but I somehow don't think he'd have saved us if he wasn't. We made signings to plug gaps but we're still requiring one of Inniss or Lavelle to play as a passing CB every week because we weren't willing to bring in enough signings to overhaul the whole team. We don't have a striker suited to playing the way we play and the only options are a disaster or a player whose fitness record is impossibly bad.
I'd actually rather have an entire squad of players signed from L2 that are suited to the way the team is trying to play than the mish-mash of nothing we currently have. We got Garner in telling him to get the team to play the most energy-sapping, technical way possible and gave him not even half a toolbox to do it with. I'd rather have Wollacott than Mac, Egbo than Gunter and Matthews, O'Connell than Famewo and JRS than Leko but it's meaningless when the overall set-up is broken. I don't hate the signings, I hate that there were nowhere near enough of them to compete
Despite the calamatous error by Mc Goalkeeper this w/e,(over a season he was better than average L1 GK) Wollacot was an investment (time and money) we didn't actually need when there were more urgent priorities in defence and attack. At the time it was thought to be an upgrade throughout the team but as it turned out it was one of few.
MacKeeper, as you say, has a decent record in this division and shot-stopping is his strength - but he's a traditional style keeper.
Garner wanted something different, a keeper who could also play out short passes with his feet. Thus Wollocott was brought in - because he was already proven to play Garner's style of football.
absolutely agree Oggie, if other squad positions had been filled/improved-everybodies happy. But as one of the few acquisitions made- did we need left sided defender also additional striker more?
Good question, KK ...... but usually during the summer a list is drawn up and players signed as they become available. It's generally only supporters who tend to prioritise.
My hunch, based on snippets I remember reading in the summer, is that some players were being signed as they became available - until Sangaard pulled the plug with budget and some positions not filled. Hence the need for another striker and LB still exists today.
Sandgaard had deemed another striker was unnecessary and wouldn't be signed- but we now know Garner pursued Bonne as the window was shutting. Act of defiance?
Of course, Wollocott was signed when he became available. If the desired LB had been available first, perhaps he would already have been signed before Wollocott - and Wollocott not signed at all?
This looks to be what happened. Garner will have pushed for a striker and had to lose money from the wage bill to make it happen. Hence Gilbey and DJ was on his way until QPR changed the agreement.
We already had agreed deal with a striker the one Garner wanted but he signed for Huddersfield , we hoped to get him on loan but did not happen in the last day .. we went after a Millwall striker and late in the day went for Bonne who we had .. but QPR failed to get the kid from Villa and changed the deal
Assuming the Sultan of ping isn't about to buy the club, this sacking and the timing of it is typical tommy tactics. He'll probably hold out until mid/end of January before making a "permanent" appointment, saying "oh dear, it's now too late to buy any players, but we'll do plenty of business in the summer". Of course the new manager will have a performance clause in his contract, so will be sacked in the summer and thus the wheel keeps turning..........
Assuming the Sultan of ping isn't about to buy the club, this sacking and the timing of it is typical tommy tactics. He'll probably hold out until mid/end of January before making a "permanent" appointment, saying "oh dear, it's now too late to buy any players, but we'll do plenty of business in the summer". Of course the new manager will have a performance clause in his contract, so will be sacked in the summer and thus the wheel keeps turning..........
This. The bookies have already stopped taking bets on the new manager...... Being Sacked.
Weird statement. Says nothing new & sounds like something you would usually say on the day you leave, not a week later. Why put it out now & why via the LMA.
Weird statement. Says nothing new & sounds like something you would usually say on the day you leave, not a week later. Why put it out now & why via the LMA.
Comments
I would say derby and sheff w, purely based on wages
There were any number of extremely wealthy people looking to buy into the prem.
That is old history and we need to worry for the now.
Garner was always going to be a long term project. His style was going to take time to bed in and it was going to take a few transfer windows to get the right players in for the system. I also agree with him that this is about getting the culture of the club transformed so that it was accustomed to a ball playing style. It can be hard to implement in league one but not impossible with the right level of investment. Along the way there were going to be tough spells with poor results. I accepted this would be the case. I had written this season off but fancied we'd see improvement next year. Axing him now makes the past few months pointless.
The club has no direction and no strategy and ultimately the owner is to blame for that. I appreciate him for keeping the club afloat...still... but his heart doesn't appear to be in it any more and hopefully another lunatic will rear their head shortly and want to buy a hugely loss making club with no real estate.
I live in hope. One day we may return to a reasonable level of football but that day look a long way off right now.
We're in L1 so the idea of a long term strategy seems a bit laughable. Trying to play football that you don't have the players for doesn't suggest he's cut out for the real world.
You can get all the coaching badges you want but it's a bit meaningless if you keep getting poor results.
Agree, you are correct Murray should have sold when we were worth buying when we were in the Premier or do what Parish and his two sleeping partners did and get new money to keep the Surrey team in the Premier even if you lose 100% Control.
Did I really need to say Richard Murray part 1 of his tenure ? I thought that was a Shay Given that the day he decided to give the rocket scientist and ex male model Iain Dowie the Job we have been heading south and the Charlton Premier days are just to be watched on a big screen before we kick off against Accrington Stanley or Cheltenham in the 3rd tier where we are now established unfortunately. Murray lost his Midas touch long ago and like a poor punter just kept backing the wrong horse.
The only successful Irish manager I can immediately think of is Martin O'Neill.
The fact he had the fans blessing was a bonus and I wouldn't put it passed TS to style it out a bit, so it looked like he was going out his way to please the fan base by not appointing his :mystery" first choice
It's generally only supporters who tend to prioritise.
My hunch, based on snippets I remember reading in the summer, is that some players were being signed as they became available - until Sangaard pulled the plug with budget and some positions not filled. Hence the need for another striker and LB still exists today.
Sandgaard had deemed another striker was unnecessary and wouldn't be signed- but we now know Garner pursued Bonne as the window was shutting. Act of defiance?
Of course, Wollocott was signed when he became available. If the desired LB had been available first, perhaps he would already have been signed before Wollocott - and Wollocott not signed at all?
He didn't sack Adkins to give Jackson the job but once he sacked Adkins he would have looked a right mug if he hadn't.
The cop out would have been if we didn't get a new manager bounce.
https://leaguemanagers.com/news/lma-latest/ben-garner-statement2/