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That Titanic submersible
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You are of course 100% right and every possible method of rescue should be used to save them. My point is that eventually someone does have to pick up the tab and should they be found in time then I have no doubt that the rescue will require someone to put themselves in danger in order to facilitate that rescue. These people are paying ridiculous sums to make the trip and do so with little or no thought or care for what their jolly might cost not only in money but in human cost also. I wonder how many of these billionaires would risk their fortunes if they were told beforehand it would be them funding the tens of millions of $ in the rescue.cafctom said:I can’t be the only one who winces with a bit of discomfort when the first thing some people think about is “how come some other story didn’t get more headlines?” or “who is footing the bill?”
Maybe it’s just me, but there’s a time and place…Doesn’t feel right when it’s at a time where the people involved are in such a predicament.1 -
Christ as if it wasn’t bad enough15 -
Reminds me of the people who go for a hike with nothing but summer wear on in the Highlands or some other places where the weather can change dramatically and that's just in this country. Then the people who sometimes are just volunteers have to risk their lives to go out and save them. Saw a documentary where one of the rescuers lost their lives in Scotland doing just this.ShootersHillGuru said:
Perhaps not so much in this particular case but people who take risks for the reasons you give often without meaning to do so put others at risk who are expected to rescue them when it goes tits up. I doubt any on that submersible we’re able to get insured and I expect the liability of the Submersibles owners is very limited too. How much is this rescue operation costing and who is footing the bill for what in effect is an act of utter irresponsibility.Solidgone said:Not sure I agree with those about having loads of money and taking such a risk. I’ve certainly and intentionally put myself at risk either scuba diving, bunjee jumping, parachute jump, zip lining, skiing etc etc plus in airplanes, helicopters, submarine, hot air balloon all of which could have ended badly. It’s what being adventurous is about. How many times has this submersible dived down to the titanic without incident?If I had known they did tourist trips I would have considered it. Unfortunately I am not fit enough to climb Everest but again I would have had it on my bucket list.These people know the risk and took a chance on a life tîme experience. They should be applauded. Unfortunately not all things go to plan and they would be fully aware of the risk involved.I just hope they return to tell us of this experience but if unfortunately they don’t make it then I feel sorry for their families and friends loss.These things happen.🤞
Anyway, probably not the appropriate time for all that.
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Seemed to me the presenter was asking who would be crazy enough to ride in this. I'm more surprised that people have than it went wrong. Sadly i can't see anyone surviving.Covered End said:
Having watched this 1 minute video (assuming it's genuine) it seems like a suicide mission & I wouldn't have got in there if you had paid me all the money in the world.guinnessaddick said:0 -
trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.4
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aside from the bizarre disregard to the technical/operational risks, diving down over 12 times (!!!) the max depth of a military submarine to steal a view of the site of one of the most infamous loss of lives in history.... just seems like a very odd thing to want to do, akin to the nutters that spend their time/money chasing a dream of opening up an ancient Egyptian sarcophagus
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TITANIC <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OCEANGATE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#OCEANGATE</a> UPDATE: With less than 40 hours of oxygen left, How DEEP is the 5 passenger sub? Somewhere around 3700 Meters, where the Titanic is. <br>How deep is 3700? This scary video will show you. <a href="https://t.co/f5kdGjOWUV">pic.twitter.com/f5kdGjOWUV</a></p>— 24/7 (@100NEWS) <a href="">June 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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All valid questions and points, and I'm in agreement with what you say.ShootersHillGuru said:
You are of course 100% right and every possible method of rescue should be used to save them. My point is that eventually someone does have to pick up the tab and should they be found in time then I have no doubt that the rescue will require someone to put themselves in danger in order to facilitate that rescue. These people are paying ridiculous sums to make the trip and do so with little or no thought or care for what their jolly might cost not only in money but in human cost also. I wonder how many of these billionaires would risk their fortunes if they were told beforehand it would be them funding the tens of millions of $ in the rescue.cafctom said:I can’t be the only one who winces with a bit of discomfort when the first thing some people think about is “how come some other story didn’t get more headlines?” or “who is footing the bill?”
Maybe it’s just me, but there’s a time and place…Doesn’t feel right when it’s at a time where the people involved are in such a predicament.
I think what gets my goat is seeing online the constant comparisons to other tragedies (the most common being migrants going between countries).
Again, not to say it isn't a valid discussion point for the right time and place. It just irks me that its where people's minds will instantly go in order to try and win political points during an ongoing situation.3 -
I have no idea how much is being spent on the search. Does anyone? Its not as if this is something that happens too regularly in this nature.follett said:
I do agree but you can understand people's frustration when 40+ school children getting killed barely gets a whisper. It's more the frustration at that rather than this being headline news. Millions will be spent on the search whereas I imagine not many will be spent helping the families and victims of this attack which has happened in the same weekcafctom said:I can’t be the only one who winces with a bit of discomfort when the first thing some people think about is “how come some other story didn’t get more headlines?” or “who is footing the bill?”
Maybe it’s just me, but there’s a time and place…Doesn’t feel right when it’s at a time where the people involved are in such a predicament.
And that in itself is what is getting the story so many headlines - it feels completely unique story to anything heard before.
Without meaning to deliberately sound crass, but "submarine with 90 hours left of oxygen, and 5 people on board, at the sight of the Titanic wreck" is hard to not be drawn towards for people in the general public.
It sounds like something out of a Hollywood movie, and doesn't carry all of the political and deep, complex contextual backstory that commonly comes with international tensions, shootings etc.
I realise I'm bordering on contradicting my own observation so will leave it there where it comes to discussion around the semantics of the coverage.0 -
If that's the case then I agree. Where I disagree is that trajedies cannot be ranked - of course they can, without scoring political/ideological points or being sociopathic or ghoulish. For example, the sinking of the Titanic cost 1500 lives. This is likely to be a trajedy, the Titanic was a greater trajedy.cafctom said:
All valid questions and points, and I'm in agreement with what you say.ShootersHillGuru said:
You are of course 100% right and every possible method of rescue should be used to save them. My point is that eventually someone does have to pick up the tab and should they be found in time then I have no doubt that the rescue will require someone to put themselves in danger in order to facilitate that rescue. These people are paying ridiculous sums to make the trip and do so with little or no thought or care for what their jolly might cost not only in money but in human cost also. I wonder how many of these billionaires would risk their fortunes if they were told beforehand it would be them funding the tens of millions of $ in the rescue.cafctom said:I can’t be the only one who winces with a bit of discomfort when the first thing some people think about is “how come some other story didn’t get more headlines?” or “who is footing the bill?”
Maybe it’s just me, but there’s a time and place…Doesn’t feel right when it’s at a time where the people involved are in such a predicament.
I think what gets my goat is seeing online the constant comparisons to other tragedies (the most common being migrants going between countries).
Again, not to say it isn't a valid discussion point for the right time and place. It just irks me that its where people's minds will instantly go in order to try and win political points during an ongoing situation.1 -
Yes!Redhenry said:
Yeah but have u fronted Millwall tho at Cold Blow Lane?Solidgone said:Not sure I agree with those about having loads of money and taking such a risk. I’ve certainly and intentionally put myself at risk either scuba diving, bunjee jumping, parachute jump, zip lining, skiing etc etc plus in airplanes, helicopters, submarine, hot air balloon all of which could have ended badly. It’s what being adventurous is about. How many times has this submersible dived down to the titanic without incident?If I had known they did tourist trips I would have considered it. Unfortunately I am not fit enough to climb Everest but again I would have had it on my bucket list.These people know the risk and took a chance on a life tîme experience. They should be applauded. Unfortunately not all things go to plan and they would be fully aware of the risk involved.I just hope they return to tell us of this experience but if unfortunately they don’t make it then I feel sorry for their families and friends loss.These things happen.🤞3 - Sponsored links:
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Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.0 -
jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.
You can try and make an argument around the numbers, but how much money someone has doesn't have any bearing on a tragedy. It's showing a bit of your own internal bias in terms of class IMO.5 -
I mean, inasmuch as the Submariners willingly spent quite a lot of money to voluntarily put themselves in a potentially dangerous position, compared to the victims in Uganda doing nothing other than just being in the wrong place at the wrong time....DamoNorthStand said:jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.
You can try and make an argument around the numbers, but how much money someone has doesn't have any bearing on a tragedy. It's showing a bit of your own internal bias in terms of class IMO.
I don't want to imply that either set of people "deserve" what's happened but it's not exactly the same thing. Both tragic though and we have to hope that in one case at least there can still be a happier ending.1 -
I agree them being rich doesn't make a difference on this being a tragedy but doesn't really change my argument in that they are not the sameDamoNorthStand said:jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.
You can try and make an argument around the numbers, but how much money someone has doesn't have any bearing on a tragedy. It's showing a bit of your own internal bias in terms of class IMO.1 -
Please feel free to start a Uganda tragedy thread.4
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The fact this is getting more news coverage than other tragic events is nothing to do with events being worse than each other.This is simply an incredibly unique situation with so many unknowns about it and so it will get rolling news coverage.11
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jesus f christ. That tweet puts it into perspective somewhat.Rufus is a dogs name said:aside from the bizarre disregard to the technical/operational risks, diving down over 12 times (!!!) the max depth of a military submarine to steal a view of the site of one of the most infamous loss of lives in history.... just seems like a very odd thing to want to do, akin to the nutters that spend their time/money chasing a dream of opening up an ancient Egyptian sarcophagus
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TITANIC <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OCEANGATE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#OCEANGATE</a> UPDATE: With less than 40 hours of oxygen left, How DEEP is the 5 passenger sub? Somewhere around 3700 Meters, where the Titanic is. <br>How deep is 3700? This scary video will show you. <a href="https://t.co/f5kdGjOWUV">pic.twitter.com/f5kdGjOWUV</a></p>— 24/7 (@100NEWS) <a href="">June 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>4 -
How rich has no bearing but how wreckless definitely does. These unfortunate people chose to take an enormous risk in going down. There are many other tragedies where the victims are just in the wrong place at the wrong time through no fault of there own or through wreckless actions.DamoNorthStand said:jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.
You can try and make an argument around the numbers, but how much money someone has doesn't have any bearing on a tragedy. It's showing a bit of your own internal bias in terms of class IMO.4 -
Stop with this white saviour complex, please.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.1 -
If there's one thing this incident isn't, it's wreckless3
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Go on any twitter feed and you’ll find lefties revelling in the situation. Comments about not being taxed enough, Uganda, Greece etc. why the tragic situations need to be compared is beyond me. Despicable people.5
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You wotkentaddick said:
Stop with this white saviour complex, please.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.2 -
Even IF they can find the sub, what position will it be? Trapped, wedged, entangled.
Its a massive technical challenge just to find it. Let alone retrieve it.
And who pays? sorry to sound crass, someone may have to foot the bill, win or lose.
But God help those poor souls aboard, especially the 19yr old lad.0 -
it takes a special kind of person to come on a thread about a group of human beings possibly dying in the most horrific way imaginable and troll it.jacob_CAFC said:
You wotkentaddick said:
Stop with this white saviour complex, please.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.0 -
I think the fact it's an ongoing incident, involves 3 Brits and the details of the situation they are potentially in, makes it more of a news story.1
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you've lost the plot mate, all i said was that you are wrong to say 6 people dying is the same as 500 people dyingkentaddick said:
it takes a special kind of person to come on a thread about a group of human beings possibly dying in the most horrific way imaginable and troll it.jacob_CAFC said:
You wotkentaddick said:
Stop with this white saviour complex, please.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.4 -
So perhaps less than 20 hours to locate the vessel. Get cables attached and have a platform in situ above to haul it to the surface. All at a depth of 3700 metres. I’m very much hoping I’m wrong but it’s starting to look like a forlorn hope to me.2
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Take a step back and read back on exactly what you've said - kick in some critical thinking and think "Hmmm, is this ghoulish and disgusting to pit two tragedies against each other, in order to project myself as superior to some one else?"jacob_CAFC said:
you've lost the plot mate, all i said was that you are wrong to say 6 people dying is the same as 500 people dyingkentaddick said:
it takes a special kind of person to come on a thread about a group of human beings possibly dying in the most horrific way imaginable and troll it.jacob_CAFC said:
You wotkentaddick said:
Stop with this white saviour complex, please.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.2 -
kentaddick said:
it takes a special kind of person to come on a thread about a group of human beings possibly dying in the most horrific way imaginable and troll it.jacob_CAFC said:
You wotkentaddick said:
Stop with this white saviour complex, please.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.
Agree with you on that but that is not what you meant by "stop with this white saviour complex" and I don't believe Jacob is doing that. Then again idk the bloke and maybe he is trolling to show how white westerners get more attention than black Africans.kentaddick said:
it takes a special kind of person to come on a thread about a group of human beings possibly dying in the most horrific way imaginable and troll it.jacob_CAFC said:
You wotkentaddick said:
Stop with this white saviour complex, please.jacob_CAFC said:
Yeah of course two tragedies can be equally as bad but in this situation they are not equally as bad, unless you rate the lives of 6 rich westerners over the 40 Ugandans killed or in a more relevant tragedy 500 missing refugees from Pakistan in the Med.kentaddick said:trying to place any tragedy above any other is sociopathic and ghoulish. Two things can be as equally bad.
Which of course is true but I haven't looked at the Uganda or other African nations news output is to see what they class as more newsworthy.
Maybe what would be more useful is to start a thread about that rather that plague this thread with yeah but whatabouts...
How to argue with oneself. Fuck me it's tiring.
Let's just keep this thread about what it was about rather than bringing other tragedies and whether they are more or less reported on.
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