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Vote here for Back to The Valley mural options
Comments
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I get your point, Steve, but Batram is the best image.Covered End said:
I thought it a little strange all the Bartram votes & nothing to do with the actual day we are meant to be remembering.killerandflash said:
It was the other way round when I votedCovered End said:
Surely you voted for 2 Sam Bartram.SporadicAddick said:Quite a change from the initial design - well done CAST..
Voted for 1 (Sam Bartram). It shows the Valley in its heyday (40,000 on the east terrace) alongside one of our greatest names. Both are powerful elements of our history - the balloon and the gate images don't give a sense of scale or our longer history. That's relevant because there is now a bigger gap between our return in 1992 to today (31 years) than between Bartram's last game and us leaving in 1985 (29 years)...
I also think the caption at the bottom misses a lot by focusing on the number of votes in the election. The election was but one part of a long campaign (albeit a significant part). Rather I think a short quote capturing a wider mood would be more appropriate:-"Through the actions and ingenuity of our fans, we returned to The Valley on 5th December 2023" (or words to that effect) widens the audience and is more inclusive of all of the actions that ultimately got us back.
ps Strange to launch a survey on a random Tuesday in December, but I'm sure there a rationale behind it.
1 is Alwen & the gates opening.
1 Bartram
2 Alwen
3 Valley on the 5/12/92
Maybe better if people commenting say they voted for Alwen/gates, Bartram or balloons/Valley?
The other two, although being more pertinent to the occasion, have little aesthetic value.
I would change ' WE COULD' to 'BUT WE DID'.2 -
Sam Bartram is a Charlton legend. But he already has a gate named after him and a statue.Redskin said:
I get your point, Steve, but Batram is the best image.Covered End said:
I thought it a little strange all the Bartram votes & nothing to do with the actual day we are meant to be remembering.killerandflash said:
It was the other way round when I votedCovered End said:
Surely you voted for 2 Sam Bartram.SporadicAddick said:Quite a change from the initial design - well done CAST..
Voted for 1 (Sam Bartram). It shows the Valley in its heyday (40,000 on the east terrace) alongside one of our greatest names. Both are powerful elements of our history - the balloon and the gate images don't give a sense of scale or our longer history. That's relevant because there is now a bigger gap between our return in 1992 to today (31 years) than between Bartram's last game and us leaving in 1985 (29 years)...
I also think the caption at the bottom misses a lot by focusing on the number of votes in the election. The election was but one part of a long campaign (albeit a significant part). Rather I think a short quote capturing a wider mood would be more appropriate:-"Through the actions and ingenuity of our fans, we returned to The Valley on 5th December 2023" (or words to that effect) widens the audience and is more inclusive of all of the actions that ultimately got us back.
ps Strange to launch a survey on a random Tuesday in December, but I'm sure there a rationale behind it.
1 is Alwen & the gates opening.
1 Bartram
2 Alwen
3 Valley on the 5/12/92
Maybe better if people commenting say they voted for Alwen/gates, Bartram or balloons/Valley?
The other two, although being more pertinent to the occasion, have little aesthetic value.
I would change ' WE COULD' to 'BUT WE DID'.
If the mural is supposed to be specifically about commemorating the return to The Valley then it should be relevant to that time - so Walsh, gates, balloons are the main images of the day in most peoples minds.
If it's just a celebration of our history in general then Sam's the man.16 -
Could this vote be explained on a match day ie this Saturday with the pictures on the big screen.
1.get a wider audience awareness than CL or CAST alone or combined
2. Motivate more to participate
Maybe this has been planned already
Also any mention of a closing date?0 -
There should be an article in the programme on Saturday and the club should be posting a link on their website in the next few days. We are hoping to get attention to it on Charlton TV for the Barnsley game.KingKinsella said:Could this vote be explained on a match day ie this Saturday with the pictures on the big screen.
1.get a wider audience awareness than CL or CAST alone or combined
2. Motivate more to participate
Maybe this has been planned already
Also any mention of a closing date?
No closing date set as nothing is going to happen before the New Year. We will do a last call a few days before we close down.1 -
Love the Sam one0
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Sam for me0
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I'm in age range 18 to 46 but it don't give me that option
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Sam Bartram has nothing to do with the Back To The Valley era
In black and white, the release of red and white balloons against the sky, the green pitch and the crowd is all lost
The gates for me, but a colourised depiction of the balloons would be my choice, all the murals around The Valley are already red, white and black and yet another one wouldn't stand out IMO3 -
I like the nod to the Valley Party posters, but am struggling to decide between Sam & the gates.
Purely as a picture which is to become a mural, I think Sam is the best of the three, and it also featured on one of the posters.
As an idea to represent returning to The Valley, the gates is better, but I'm not over-keen on the composition; possibly this could be tweaked by the artist?
The balloons is definitely 3rd best for me - like @Valley11, I would prefer a picture of Walsh scoring. Such an iconic moment.0 -
I’ve voted for Sam but if Walsh scoring was an option then I would vote for that. That was the crowning moment of our Back to the Valley day.5
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voted balloons but only because I didn't see the relevance of Sam to that actual occasion, didn't like the way the gates one depicted some fans only so balloons was the only choice available. I too would have voted for Walshie's goal if the option were there.5
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Agree that the Sam picture, while great, isn't relevant to BTTV
The other images are both Tom Morris pics, I believe, so permission would have to be given by those who now hold the copyright
Balloons for me as each balloon represents one day of the exile and the image show more of the Valley, the place we're celebrating.10 -
Bartram for me. One of the superb posters produced by Richard Hunt’s agency for the ‘Back to the Valley’ campaign, so it has a special resonance for me. It also shows The Valley in its pomp.
Another great poster was the ‘traffic congestion’ one with Don Welsh and the FA Cup.
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Sam, iconic of the club as well as the day.0
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Gates gate my vote, depicts the day, as good as the Big Sam is, he is stood proud at the main entrance of the Valley itself,therefore gates should be where/near the gates themselves…
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I tend to agree with this. The previous design was confusing and not put together particularly well, however these current ideas, which were great ads and posters, aren't murals and don't really do the importance of the day justice. Something new and original should be pursued, just an opinion and appreciate there are many and lots seem to like them.grumpyaddick said:Sorry. Not inspired by any of those designs I'm afraid. Do monochrome photos count as murals?1 -
Balloons.0
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Voted Sam - all day long the best image1
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But we're not supposed to be voting for the best image. We're supposed to be voting for the best image to commemorate the 5th December 1992.
I agree that Colin Walsh's goal would be best, but as we're not given that as an option, then the pitch, stands & balloons is next best.
Bartram already has a statue and it's not meant to be a mural for past great players.13 -
Disagree - that poster for The Valley Party using Sam’s image is iconic for us - superb image and words - says everything about what CAFC means to usCovered End said:But we're not supposed to be voting for the best image. We're supposed to be voting for the best image to commemorate the 5th December 1992.
I agree that Colin Walsh's goal would be best, but as we're not given that as an option, then the pitch, stands & balloons is next best.
Bartram already has a statue and it's not meant to be a mural for past great players.0 -
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The Bartram wording is the best but the picture doesn't mean much to present generations. The 'gates' wording is appalling. The balloon picture is not really a football picture. The person who commented about the Walsh picture with Walsh in red has the right sort of idea for the image. The problem with having a Walsh picture with the Bartram wording is people might think Sam scored the goal.0
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Voted for Sam but it feels slightly uncomfortable voting for the “permanent” mural when the club don’t own the ground.2
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ThisEveshamAddick said:Voted for Sam but it feels slightly uncomfortable voting for the “permanent” mural when the club don’t own the ground.1 -
It can't be that iconic as I don't remember it and I was at both clean up days, the Town Hall etc etc.Lordflashheart said:
Disagree - that poster for The Valley Party using Sam’s image is iconic for us - superb image and words - says everything about what CAFC means to usCovered End said:But we're not supposed to be voting for the best image. We're supposed to be voting for the best image to commemorate the 5th December 1992.
I agree that Colin Walsh's goal would be best, but as we're not given that as an option, then the pitch, stands & balloons is next best.
Bartram already has a statue and it's not meant to be a mural for past great players.0 -
Can we not do a mural comprising all three? Apologies if this has already been suggested before.1
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I must admit this is why I find votes for stuff like this slightly meaningless, as loads of people have voted for Sam and it's the one that has the least relevance to the 5th December 1992, because it's "a great picture of The Valley in its pomp" (not relevant to the day) or a "fantastic photo of a Valley hero" (he's already got a statue and a gate) so the mural itself would lose it's meaning.
Even just have a stylised version of the balloons, just paint the same amount of balloons on the side of the wall that there was on the day, and paint in them in such a way that it spells out Back To The Valley or 05.12.92 or something similar
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I don't think the Bartram one is very relevant, but its the best picture as the others are dull. There must be better images available somewhere.
I think they are all pretty dreary, and if thats the best we can come up with why bother. Mind you a blank wall is still better than that original mural painting.
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I like that idea.stockportaddick said:Can we not do a mural comprising all three? Apologies if this has already been suggested before.
Walsh in the middle/foreground, striking the ball, gates opening above and to the left, balloon release above and to the right. Wording along the bottom.1 -
I've held back from commenting until now as I didn't want to come across as negative when I know that people have put a lot of effort into this. However, I don't think I would be being true to myself or the the club if I sat back and pretended that I am really happy with these options. I'm thankful to @grumpyaddick and @Hal1x for having the courage of their convictions and showing me the way on this.
Thanks to The Trust for revisiting it. Whatever I say now, I think the current offering is far better than the original, so thank you for listening. I have voted and chose the gates option, however I don't think any of them really look that inspiring.
I speak as someone who wasn't there on the day, but who watched on tv. My memories from a distance are that it was a jubilant, triumphant day (please correct me if I'm wrong). From what I saw, it was noisy and colourful; a celebration! People were happy, excited and very very proud. For me the proposed designs convey none of that. They are stark; the images are drab monochrome, the text monolithic. They speak of struggle not triumph. They look like political propaganda, which is exactly what the originals were designed as. Is that what we want outside The Valley? I don't think so, not unless we want to foster a sense of bitterness and uncertainty - frankly there's enough of that watching the team at the moment. If we are going to celebrate our return, cheery and uplifting should be the emotional emphasis, not sullen and forthright. It should be about a celebratory party, not a political party. It should be bright, colourful and optimistic. There is a place for those Valley Party images, but it's in the museum not on the street. Now is the time for something original, not a drab rehash.
By amending the old Valley Party posters, you change the focus of the return to the political party rather than the return itself itself. As we saw from that wonderful video that Henry posted the other day, The Valley Party was just one part of a much longer and wider struggle to get the club back to The Valley. It was a very important, arguably the most important part of the struggle, but it wasn't the be all and end all. And, ultimately by the time we returned to The Valley, the party had served its purpose. By basing the mural on the Valley Party posters you are actually commemorating the wrong date. I thought the purpose was to bring the 5th December back to life, not the 3rd May.
Finally and this is a comparatively small point, but if you are going ahead with one of these options please have a re-think about the text placement. Unless the mural is starting half way up the wall, that text is not going to get read as it's on the floor. Personally I wouldn't put much writing on it, but if you do it should be at eye level or higher where it stands a chance of getting read.
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Very well said Stig.
I think the fact that there is perhaps an evenish split on the 3 options, demonstrates that none of them are actually right and maybe more than a half of the fans won't be impressed.
I'm of the opinion that Colin Walsh's goal is the best option.4
