I voted for the gates as its an iconic image plus symbolic for us returning. Personally don't think it should be restricted just to a copy of the picture. Why not use the image but integrate other elements, like the balloons, into it. Just not in the absolute car crash form of the original design.
I've held back from commenting until now as I didn't want to come across as negative when I know that people have put a lot of effort into this. However, I don't think I would be being true to myself or the the club if I sat back and pretended that I am really happy with these options. I'm thankful to @grumpyaddick and @Hal1x for having the courage of their convictions and showing me the way on this.
Thanks to The Trust for revisiting it. Whatever I say now, I think the current offering is far better than the original, so thank you for listening. I have voted and chose the gates option, however I don't think any of them really look that inspiring.
I speak as someone who wasn't there on the day, but who watched on tv. My memories from a distance are that it was a jubilant, triumphant day (please correct me if I'm wrong). From what I saw, it was noisy and colourful; a celebration! People were happy, excited and very very proud. For me the proposed designs convey none of that. They are stark; the images are drab monochrome, the text monolithic. They speak of struggle not triumph. They look like political propaganda, which is exactly what the originals were designed as. Is that what we want outside The Valley? I don't think so, not unless we want to foster a sense of bitterness and uncertainty - frankly there's enough of that watching the team at the moment. If we are going to celebrate our return, cheery and uplifting should be the emotional emphasis, not sullen and forthright. It should be about a celebratory party, not a political party. It should be bright, colourful and optimistic. There is a place for those Valley Party images, but it's in the museum not on the street. Now is the time for something original, not a drab rehash.
By amending the old Valley Party posters, you change the focus of the return to the political party rather than the return itself itself. As we saw from that wonderful video that Henry posted the other day, The Valley Party was just one part of a much longer and wider struggle to get the club back to The Valley. It was a very important, arguably the most important part of the struggle, but it wasn't the be all and end all. And, ultimately by the time we returned to The Valley, the party had served its purpose. By basing the mural on the Valley Party posters you are actually commemorating the wrong date. I thought the purpose was to bring the 5th December back to life, not the 3rd May.
Finally and this is a comparatively small point, but if you are going ahead with one of these options please have a re-think about the text placement. Unless the mural is starting half way up the wall, that text is not going to get read as it's on the floor. Personally I wouldn't put much writing on it, but if you do it should be at eye level or higher where it stands a chance of getting read.
I was there on the day and think @Stig has made some good points.
I also would prefer a colourful picture celebrating the day, perhaps of Walsh scoring the goal with the covered end more close up erupting as the ball hit the net. Surely there is one photo that captured that moment.
I'm with the sentiments brilliantly expressed by @Stig. I chose the "Gates" option as the best of an improved, but still not ideal, offering, although I didn't like the associated wording. I just don't think that any of the options capture the feeling of the day and the struggle to arrive at that day. Why not have the previously suggested Colin Walsh shot as the main mural, with 4 smaller ones in each corner, which could include the 3 suggestions with a.n.other (Town Hall??). I also think that the inscription needs to be more explanative.
The inscription could be as simple as "For seven years (or the number of days) Charlton were in exile from The Valley. On December 5 1992 we returned." The 2nd sentence could be extended to include something like "due to the actions of the fans".
i said on the survey that if a mural is to be done it should be some kind of montage of all the valley party candidates, the volunteers who helped get the valley ready and the board at the time - they are the true heroes plus those who kept going to keep the club alive whilst at that shitehole in croydon, many of whom would have been at the valley clear up and the woolwich town hall thing - a montage of those people and occasions and one of the colin walsh goal as something from the day would probably do it justice for me
The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Walsh's goal and the fans celebrating that is the key thing that should be depicted. If balloons and gates can be woven into the picture, either as part of a triptych or as a cleverly conceived artistic mash up, then all well and good. But if they can't, it should just be the goal.
Just think about why people come to The Valley. Sure, they come to meet friends, to expirence the catering and because it's 'what they do'. But ultimately those are secondary reasons. The reason everyone comes to The Valley is to watch football. That is what the whole struggle to return was about. It was seeing Charlton play football in their natural home that people were doing on that day. I'm pretty certain that no-one got up that morning and said, 'I must get down The Valley to see a man with a big smile open some gates'. Similarly, I can't imagine anyone over the age of five being driven there by a desire to release the balloons. The gates and the balloons did provide some iconic moments, but they most categorically were not the reason people went there that day. That reason is to watch a game of football. Not including football on the mural seems to miss the whole point of the day.
Having recognised the centrality of the football match to what went on that day. The only real question is what part of the match should be depicted. The kick off? The final whistle? Something in-between? Of course something in-between. We come to football to see goals. If there were no goals, we wouldn't come. Goals are the pinnacle of the footballing experience. Goals are the moment when our hearts soar; or break, depending on what end they go in. More than that, they are the pinnacle of our engagement as fans. That's when we're all on our feet, at our most alert and most alive. That's when we are most noisy, most joyous most at one with our club. Colin Walsh's goal was the absolute highlight of the day. That is what we should be using to remember it. Nothing else is necessary. And as goals go, it wasn't to shabby either.
With this in mind, I ask The Trust, please have a re-think. I know you put a lot of effort into getting the project where it is and had probably hope to put it to bed quite soon, but we do only have one shot at it. Please let's take the time to ensure we get this absolutely right.
I also feel Walsh’s strike is the most iconic and memorable moment of the day, as good as the other three options are I would have voted for a Walsh option if one was available.
I haven't voted because, like many others, I wasn't inspired by any of the designs but felt bad about that, because the Trust have listened and come up with better alternatives. And I also know it's an absolute nightmare to come up with something that pleases everyone. But @Stig has nailed it.
The goal was of course special, but the moment that did it for me was seeing the players running out on to the pitch for the warmup. I started welling up when I saw Kim Grant (of all people) running out of a portacabin
I genuinely don't see the Bartram image as relevant to a celebration of the 5th December, if the mural is meant to be celebrating that day, rather than the Back to the Valley campaign in general.
Stig has nailed it, absolutely no doubt in my mind. I can see a lot of apathy with the 3 suggested options. Even though I chose the "balloons" that was my least worst option. But who could be apathetic or annoyed with the image of Colin Walsh scoring the 1st goal? You could gaze at that for quite a while and still enjoy the view. I'd even go slightly "out of my way" to view Walsh's goal, but I wouldn't for balloons, gates (or Bartram which I still feel is irrelevant to "the day").
I voted for the balloons because of what they represented.
Each balloon represented a day away from the Valley so it was about the day AND the exile.
It doesn't need the Valley Party image or tag line or better still just the balloons and an explanation of what they represented.
Some times less is more so it could be stripped down even more to just a huge
2247 of whatever the number was and a note to say that was number of days spent away.
Think of the 100 years of the Valley mural at the station; no images, just words but big, bold and simple
In the Trusts defence, its a lot easier to design a mural with a name and number than it is to do a visual representation. Everyone has different memories of RTTV, I'm not sure many of us were around when the Vallery was dug out .
I voted for the balloons because of what they represented.
Each balloon represented a day away from the Valley so it was about the day AND the exile.
It doesn't need the Valley Party image or tag line or better still just the balloons and an explanation of what they represented.
Some times less is more so it could be stripped down even more to just a huge
2247 of whatever the number was and a note to say that was number of days spent away.
Think of the 100 years of the Valley mural at the station; no images, just words but big, bold and simple
In the Trusts defence, its a lot easier to design a mural with a name and number than it is to do a visual representation. Everyone has different memories of RTTV, I'm not sure many of us were around when the Vallery was dug out .
Yes, I agree much easier which is why I'm suggesting that option
For me the 5th December 1992 is still up there as one of the most hair raising days of my 51 years of life, certainly as a Charlton supporter, it beats any Wembley trip or promotion. Even now all these years on thinking back it raises the hairs on my neck.
It's a tough job to come up with something that depicts that day, almost impossible as everyone will have slightly different feelings and memories about elements of it.
For me seeing that first goal was probably the iconic moment, but others will have other views.
I haven't voted yet, but would vote of the options available for either of the non Bartram one's.
I haven't voted because, like many others, I wasn't inspired by any of the designs but felt bad about that, because the Trust have listened and come up with better alternatives. And I also know it's an absolute nightmare to come up with something that pleases everyone. But @Stig has nailed it.
I voted for the balloons because of what they represented.
Each balloon represented a day away from the Valley so it was about the day AND the exile.
It doesn't need the Valley Party image or tag line or better still just the balloons and an explanation of what they represented.
Some times less is more so it could be stripped down even more to just a huge
2247 of whatever the number was and a note to say that was number of days spent away.
Think of the 100 years of the Valley mural at the station; no images, just words but big, bold and simple
In the Trusts defence, its a lot easier to design a mural with a name and number than it is to do a visual representation. Everyone has different memories of RTTV, I'm not sure many of us were around when the Vallery was dug out .
Yes, I agree much easier which is why I'm suggesting that option
You can't just write charlton and a date again though.
I voted for the balloons because of what they represented.
Each balloon represented a day away from the Valley so it was about the day AND the exile.
It doesn't need the Valley Party image or tag line or better still just the balloons and an explanation of what they represented.
Some times less is more so it could be stripped down even more to just a huge
2247 of whatever the number was and a note to say that was number of days spent away.
Think of the 100 years of the Valley mural at the station; no images, just words but big, bold and simple
In the Trusts defence, its a lot easier to design a mural with a name and number than it is to do a visual representation. Everyone has different memories of RTTV, I'm not sure many of us were around when the Vallery was dug out .
Yes, I agree much easier which is why I'm suggesting that option
You can't just write charlton and a date again though.
All a bit meh for me. Can’t be bothered to vote and unlikely to contribute any dosh. I was there that day, and believe me it wasn’t a black and white experience, it was a cultural wonder, it was awesome.
Can we not do a mural comprising all three? Apologies if this has already been suggested before.
I like that idea.
Walsh in the middle/foreground, striking the ball, gates opening above and to the left, balloon release above and to the right. Wording along the bottom.
Spot on except with the wording at the top.
What we need is to take this opportunity to show the current and future generations that we have come out of the doldrums to be a top team before and that it can be done again.
A picture solely of gates or balloons won’t cut it.
We should be voting on the images to go around the main Walshie image not the image itself.
My nominations for the peripheral images:
Woolwich town hall announcement The Valley clear up bonfire Rick selling VOTV outside Selhurst The already proposed gates image. The balloons but looking upwards from the ground to the sky
Any other nominations? THESE are what we should be voting on.
I haven't voted because, like many others, I wasn't inspired by any of the designs but felt bad about that, because the Trust have listened and come up with better alternatives. And I also know it's an absolute nightmare to come up with something that pleases everyone. But @Stig has nailed it.
Please do vote because then your voice will be heard In the comments section.
If necessary write something like: ’please discount my vote because I don’t like any of the options. I would only vote for ............'
I voted for the gates but in all honesty it’s a bit naff. Surely Walshie has to take centre stage here.
Comments
I also would prefer a colourful picture celebrating the day, perhaps of Walsh scoring the goal with the covered end more close up erupting as the ball hit the net. Surely there is one photo that captured that moment.
I chose the "Gates" option as the best of an improved, but still not ideal, offering, although I didn't like the associated wording.
I just don't think that any of the options capture the feeling of the day and the struggle to arrive at that day.
Why not have the previously suggested Colin Walsh shot as the main mural, with 4 smaller ones in each corner, which could include the 3 suggestions with a.n.other (Town Hall??).
I also think that the inscription needs to be more explanative.
The 2nd sentence could be extended to include something like "due to the actions of the fans".
Just think about why people come to The Valley. Sure, they come to meet friends, to expirence the catering and because it's 'what they do'. But ultimately those are secondary reasons. The reason everyone comes to The Valley is to watch football. That is what the whole struggle to return was about. It was seeing Charlton play football in their natural home that people were doing on that day. I'm pretty certain that no-one got up that morning and said, 'I must get down The Valley to see a man with a big smile open some gates'. Similarly, I can't imagine anyone over the age of five being driven there by a desire to release the balloons. The gates and the balloons did provide some iconic moments, but they most categorically were not the reason people went there that day. That reason is to watch a game of football. Not including football on the mural seems to miss the whole point of the day.
Having recognised the centrality of the football match to what went on that day. The only real question is what part of the match should be depicted. The kick off? The final whistle? Something in-between? Of course something in-between. We come to football to see goals. If there were no goals, we wouldn't come. Goals are the pinnacle of the footballing experience. Goals are the moment when our hearts soar; or break, depending on what end they go in. More than that, they are the pinnacle of our engagement as fans. That's when we're all on our feet, at our most alert and most alive. That's when we are most noisy, most joyous most at one with our club. Colin Walsh's goal was the absolute highlight of the day. That is what we should be using to remember it. Nothing else is necessary. And as goals go, it wasn't to shabby either.
With this in mind, I ask The Trust, please have a re-think. I know you put a lot of effort into getting the project where it is and had probably hope to put it to bed quite soon, but we do only have one shot at it. Please let's take the time to ensure we get this absolutely right.
I genuinely don't see the Bartram image as relevant to a celebration of the 5th December, if the mural is meant to be celebrating that day, rather than the Back to the Valley campaign in general.
I can see a lot of apathy with the 3 suggested options.
Even though I chose the "balloons" that was my least worst option.
But who could be apathetic or annoyed with the image of Colin Walsh scoring the 1st goal?
You could gaze at that for quite a while and still enjoy the view.
I'd even go slightly "out of my way" to view Walsh's goal, but I wouldn't for balloons, gates (or Bartram which I still feel is irrelevant to "the day").
Each balloon represented a day away from the Valley so it was about the day AND the exile.
It doesn't need the Valley Party image or tag line or better still just the balloons and an explanation of what they represented.
Some times less is more so it could be stripped down even more to just a huge
2247 of whatever the number was and a note to say that was number of days spent away.
Think of the 100 years of the Valley mural at the station; no images, just words but big, bold and simple
It's a tough job to come up with something that depicts that day, almost impossible as everyone will have slightly different feelings and memories about elements of it.
For me seeing that first goal was probably the iconic moment, but others will have other views.
I haven't voted yet, but would vote of the options available for either of the non Bartram one's.
I was there that day, and believe me it wasn’t a black and white experience, it was a cultural wonder, it was awesome.
Also, imo, it should if budget allows, be painted, not a photo.
What we need is to take this opportunity to show the current and future generations that we have come out of the doldrums to be a top team before and that it can be done again.
A picture solely of gates or balloons won’t cut it.
We should be voting on the images to go around the main Walshie image not the image itself.
My nominations for the peripheral images:
Woolwich town hall announcement
The Valley clear up bonfire
Rick selling VOTV outside Selhurst
The already proposed gates image.
The balloons but looking upwards from the ground to the sky
Any other nominations? THESE are what we should be voting on.
In the comments section.
If necessary write something like: ’please discount my vote because I don’t like any of the options. I would only vote for ............'
I voted for the gates but in all honesty it’s a bit naff. Surely Walshie has to take centre stage here.