Blimey there was only 393 of us yesterday, I was under the impression it was just under 600 😂
Back to reality for us then, already seen some Port Vale fans say they were surprised at our low turnout for a so called 'big club'.
Pain.
Our dismal away record this season is clearly impacting numbers now.
ONE league away win all season. TWO away wins in all competitions, the other being at an 8th tier opponent in the FA Cup. Losing to L2 opponents in ALL THREE cup competitions.
We haven't got any away league wins have we?
Wigan.
And nearly blew that after being 3-0 up at HT 😩. However only 415 away fans that day.
That was a midweek game, and at a ground we've been to plenty of times recently
Blimey there was only 393 of us yesterday, I was under the impression it was just under 600 😂
Back to reality for us then, already seen some Port Vale fans say they were surprised at our low turnout for a so called 'big club'.
Pain.
Our dismal away record this season is clearly impacting numbers now.
ONE league away win all season. TWO away wins in all competitions, the other being at an 8th tier opponent in the FA Cup. Losing to L2 opponents in ALL THREE cup competitions.
We haven't got any away league wins have we?
Wigan.
And nearly blew that after being 3-0 up at HT 😩. However only 415 away fans that day.
That was a midweek game, and at a ground we've been to plenty of times recently
Be interesting to see how many we take to Burton then.
Blimey there was only 393 of us yesterday, I was under the impression it was just under 600 😂
Back to reality for us then, already seen some Port Vale fans say they were surprised at our low turnout for a so called 'big club'.
Pain.
Our dismal away record this season is clearly impacting numbers now.
ONE league away win all season. TWO away wins in all competitions, the other being at an 8th tier opponent in the FA Cup. Losing to L2 opponents in ALL THREE cup competitions.
It is why tbh I am not a fan of mocking other fans away numbers unless it's pure wind up, like how I had a pop at MillwallFan on the Millwall thread.
We have had some right shoddy turnouts when we venture up North but when we sell out places like Stevenage or Leyton Orient we give it the bigun' a bit, at least on social media.
Seen the sell out at Old Trafford mentioned numerous times but we don't bring a fraction of those numbers further south when we could.
I understand why people don't go though, rarely win and play shit. I am only mainly going because I really want to do 46/46 for once (real danger of failing Peterborough at home), I love visiting new grounds and I am enjoying my vlogs away.
If I didn't have those reasons I'd be tempted to watch Charlton TV tbh as it is good value.
We have to improve all over the pitch to escape L1. With our strikers all fit (especially if we sign JCH) we should be ok, as between them they can hold the ball up better, allowing us to progress up the pitch.
But if we were only to improve the back four that would help, of course, but wouldn’t be enough on its own. The midfield also needs strengthening big time. Bakinson may help with that, and that’s clearly why they’ve signed him.
For me our weak midfield has increased the pressure on our defenders for a number of seasons now. Whether we strengthen it enough in this window remains to be seen. We need a few ‘men’ in there, as Bowyer might say.
Looking back at those goals I make the second and third Jones errors more than anything else, which is frustrating. For the second AMB soft paws it in to his goal for sure, but Jones gets absolutely done in his own box on a header where the defender doesn't have a run on him which just shouldn't happen. Weak, weak defending. Then for the third he just stands there Lavelle-style, doesn't get out to the attacker even though there's absolutely no space for anyone to run in behind him and I think if anything he screens the shot from the keeper's sight which explains why he didn't dive. It's injury time, Massey has taken the ball out from his feet and pushed forward, it's so obvious a shot is coming and Jones hops on the spot, I assume in an attempt to make Massey laugh and distract him? It's just so poor, we get very caught up in the big errors where defenders fall over or pass the ball to the opposition but those are unusual moments (less so for us but anyway). The amount of basic defending mistakes the players make is insane though. It really worries me because I can chalk up a header coming awkwardly off a defender's head and landing at an opposition player's feet as an unfortunate moment but we have so many L1 players who just lose the ability to do what should by now be instinctive parts of their jobs every single game. It's phenomenal.
Looking back at those goals I make the second and third Jones errors more than anything else, which is frustrating. For the second AMB soft paws it in to his goal for sure, but Jones gets absolutely done in his own box on a header where the defender doesn't have a run on him which just shouldn't happen. Weak, weak defending. Then for the third he just stands there Lavelle-style, doesn't get out to the attacker even though there's absolutely no space for anyone to run in behind him and I think if anything he screens the shot from the keeper's sight which explains why he didn't dive. It's injury time, Massey has taken the ball out from his feet and pushed forward, it's so obvious a shot is coming and Jones hops on the spot, I assume in an attempt to make Massey laugh and distract him? It's just so poor, we get very caught up in the big errors where defenders fall over or pass the ball to the opposition but those are unusual moments (less so for us but anyway). The amount of basic defending mistakes the players make is insane though. It really worries me because I can chalk up a header coming awkwardly off a defender's head and landing at an opposition player's feet as an unfortunate moment but we have so many L1 players who just lose the ability to do what should by now be instinctive parts of their jobs every single game. It's phenomenal.
It’s so bizarre that he watched the whole move with his hands on his knees.
I rate him for being very solid, but he hasn’t been in recent weeks, which is a real concern.
Edit: Perhaps if Ikpeazu hadn't been there in front of Massey he would have been more active?
One other thing: Watching Arsenal v Liverpool yesterday you can see how many players Liverpool get behind the ball when defending. We had a thin black line defending the goal, when we should had at least two other players in or around the D perhaps.
The absolute worst thing that happened on Saturday was realising they play that bloody Palace song after they score. Hearing it once is bad enough, hearing it time and time again after Charlton threw away the lead three times was excruciating.
Best thing was discovering Staffordshire Oatcakes, why are these not a bigger thing nationwide?
I thought the entire game was a masterclass in defensive ineptitude, with Port Vale's even worse than ours. Where they were significantly better than us was in their attacking play and in their domination of midfield in the second half. It's just as well that their top scorer, Ben Garrity, was out.
There is a serious problem with our lack of resilience and, contrary to Appleton's usual assertion/excuse, it goes well beyond having to play too many youngsters. Yes we lack physicality and experience in the side but defects in the coaching and basic organisation of the team are just as important and that is down to him and his staff.
Whilst Maynard-Brewer was at fault for the second goal, he kept us in the game with a couple of excellent saves. Jones (inhibited by his early booking) had a poor game and, whilst Edun is good on the ball, he is a mediocre defender, who rarely stops crosses coming in and compounds it with his poor positional sense. We need a replacement.
The fact that we were overpowered in midfield in the second half is not a great surprise, given that Watson and Anderson are relatively lightweight and our two wingers - for all their attacking quality - offer little when we're out of possession. In fairness to Appleton, he has had three midfielders out injured practically all season and his only option on the bench was the ambling Scott Fraser, who is the last man you'd want to introduce into this sort of game when your backs are up against the wall. The fact that we've signed two midfield loanees suggests that we won't be seeing much (if anything) of Camara, Taylor and McGrandles this season.
Daniel Kanu took his goal expertly but was generally isolated and had very little support from midfield runners. We were always going to struggle with the long term injuries to Leaburn and Aneke, whilst May's back problem has only compounded matters.
There are some very tough fixtures coming up in the next 10 games and we have to hope that the players who come in this month hit the ground running and that we can retain Dobson and Blackett-Taylor. If not, we could be in a very worrying position going into March and the last 11 games of the season.
This is a great summary. To reiterate some of your points, Edun allowing players, offering little more than a turn of pace, to get past him is a concern and he has been in the team long enough now for judgements to be formed. With Thomas being the only possible replacement, his position is probably one of the safest in the team and the lack of competition could also explain his poor defensive performances.
Tyreece Campbell left their full back unmarked time after time yesterday, as CBT does every week (which isn’t helping Edun). Are they under instructions to allow this to happen or just being plain lazy? It’s a reason I am not a fan of 4-3-3 because there could be an expectation that the defensive midfielders should mop this up but, in my opinion, we should revert to 4-5-1 when defending so the instructions for our wingers is clearer. Still not convinced CBT and TC would bother though which is also an indictment of Appleton and whether he can get the best out of the team.
Still not calling for his head though as think it’s too soon but our defensive shape, particularly from set pieces, should be showing signed of improvement by now surely? Why are we still using the zonal / man to man mix at corners? I hate it because it means all 11 players drop in so there are less players unmarked and, as was proven by the penalty yesterday, it causes problems for the second and third defensive phases because the three zonal defenders then don’t know who to mark. This caused Anderson to be 1 v 2 after the corner and make that last ditch slide to block the cross.
I’m pretty sure Holden used the same system and even a manager or two before that? Please change it!
It’s a ‘thing’ isn’t it to have 3 tall ones doing zonal and others doing man to man…… probably won’t change if it’s one of the latest fashions? Wish whatever they are doing they could do it better for corners and all the 90 mins
The absolute worst thing that happened on Saturday was realising they play that bloody Palace song after they score. Hearing it once is bad enough, hearing it time and time again after Charlton threw away the lead three times was excruciating.
Best thing was discovering Staffordshire Oatcakes, why are these not a bigger thing nationwide?
Good question, it's probably because Staffordshire is a backwater county that has poor road links having relied for many years during its heyday on canals. I lived not far from there for a few months a year for a few years and they weren't a big thing then in the edge of Staffordshire, or in nearby Shropshire where I mostly stayed.
Blimey there was only 393 of us yesterday, I was under the impression it was just under 600 😂
Back to reality for us then, already seen some Port Vale fans say they were surprised at our low turnout for a so called 'big club'.
Pain.
Our dismal away record this season is clearly impacting numbers now.
ONE league away win all season. TWO away wins in all competitions, the other being at an 8th tier opponent in the FA Cup. Losing to L2 opponents in ALL THREE cup competitions.
We haven't got any away league wins have we?
Wigan.
And nearly blew that after being 3-0 up at HT 😩. However only 415 away fans that day.
That was a midweek game, and at a ground we've been to plenty of times recently
Be interesting to see how many we take to Burton then.
We are 13 points off the play offs but only 7 off the relegation zone. No room for complacency. The teams just below us are not that good but several of them have picked up points recently. We have 2 points from 15 , Burton have 8 from 15. We are very poor and it is difficult to see how a new Manager could do worse.The next 4 fixtures look tricky and could all be lost. If we are not careful it is League 2 next season.
Looking back at those goals I make the second and third Jones errors more than anything else, which is frustrating. For the second AMB soft paws it in to his goal for sure, but Jones gets absolutely done in his own box on a header where the defender doesn't have a run on him which just shouldn't happen. Weak, weak defending. Then for the third he just stands there Lavelle-style, doesn't get out to the attacker even though there's absolutely no space for anyone to run in behind him and I think if anything he screens the shot from the keeper's sight which explains why he didn't dive. It's injury time, Massey has taken the ball out from his feet and pushed forward, it's so obvious a shot is coming and Jones hops on the spot, I assume in an attempt to make Massey laugh and distract him? It's just so poor, we get very caught up in the big errors where defenders fall over or pass the ball to the opposition but those are unusual moments (less so for us but anyway). The amount of basic defending mistakes the players make is insane though. It really worries me because I can chalk up a header coming awkwardly off a defender's head and landing at an opposition player's feet as an unfortunate moment but we have so many L1 players who just lose the ability to do what should by now be instinctive parts of their jobs every single game. It's phenomenal.
It’s so bizarre that he watched the whole move with his hands on his knees.
I rate him for being very solid, but he hasn’t been in recent weeks, which is a real concern.
Edit: Perhaps if Ikpeazu hadn't been there in front of Massey he would have been more active?
One other thing: Watching Arsenal v Liverpool yesterday you can see how many players Liverpool get behind the ball when defending. We had a thin black line defending the goal, when we should had at least two other players in or around the D perhaps.
Ikpeazu steps back away from goal to create space as soon as Massey gets it. He's read Massey's intentions but Jones hasn't. Jones has a second to step forward and he freezes. So very Lavelley
The Kanu goal was very much like the type of goal he would often get progressing through the ranks, and it was also very much like a Patrick Casey type of goal.
Looking back at those goals I make the second and third Jones errors more than anything else, which is frustrating. For the second AMB soft paws it in to his goal for sure, but Jones gets absolutely done in his own box on a header where the defender doesn't have a run on him which just shouldn't happen. Weak, weak defending. Then for the third he just stands there Lavelle-style, doesn't get out to the attacker even though there's absolutely no space for anyone to run in behind him and I think if anything he screens the shot from the keeper's sight which explains why he didn't dive. It's injury time, Massey has taken the ball out from his feet and pushed forward, it's so obvious a shot is coming and Jones hops on the spot, I assume in an attempt to make Massey laugh and distract him? It's just so poor, we get very caught up in the big errors where defenders fall over or pass the ball to the opposition but those are unusual moments (less so for us but anyway). The amount of basic defending mistakes the players make is insane though. It really worries me because I can chalk up a header coming awkwardly off a defender's head and landing at an opposition player's feet as an unfortunate moment but we have so many L1 players who just lose the ability to do what should by now be instinctive parts of their jobs every single game. It's phenomenal.
It’s so bizarre that he watched the whole move with his hands on his knees.
I rate him for being very solid, but he hasn’t been in recent weeks, which is a real concern.
Edit: Perhaps if Ikpeazu hadn't been there in front of Massey he would have been more active?
One other thing: Watching Arsenal v Liverpool yesterday you can see how many players Liverpool get behind the ball when defending. We had a thin black line defending the goal, when we should had at least two other players in or around the D perhaps.
Ikpeazu steps back away from goal to create space as soon as Massey gets it. He's read Massey's intentions but Jones hasn't. Jones has a second to step forward and he freezes. So very Lavelley
If Jones steps forward and breaks out of the defensive line, Massey can slip the ball past him through to Ikpeazu for a 1v1 shot on goal. As a defender, there are certain situations where you're told to hold your position and this was one of them IMO.
Playing the percentages: Massey's shot from 20 yards was less likely to go in than Ikpeazu having a shot from 10 yards.
The bigger problem IMO is the fact that a pass was allowed to find Massey in that position in the first place. Dobson or Watson should be goalside of him.
Sadly @Callumcafc football in the last moments of a game, hanging on to a slender 3-2 win isn't played by a computer simulator.
You put your bollocks on the line Throw yourself at the ball And expect, in injury time, tiredness and compsure to eradicate clear thinking and precision passes
In Division 3 football At that time You ensure the shot doesn't get past you You play to win At all costs
That's where we are going wrong
We need to show some bloody desire to stop the ball getting to the goal
Looking back at those goals I make the second and third Jones errors more than anything else, which is frustrating. For the second AMB soft paws it in to his goal for sure, but Jones gets absolutely done in his own box on a header where the defender doesn't have a run on him which just shouldn't happen. Weak, weak defending. Then for the third he just stands there Lavelle-style, doesn't get out to the attacker even though there's absolutely no space for anyone to run in behind him and I think if anything he screens the shot from the keeper's sight which explains why he didn't dive. It's injury time, Massey has taken the ball out from his feet and pushed forward, it's so obvious a shot is coming and Jones hops on the spot, I assume in an attempt to make Massey laugh and distract him? It's just so poor, we get very caught up in the big errors where defenders fall over or pass the ball to the opposition but those are unusual moments (less so for us but anyway). The amount of basic defending mistakes the players make is insane though. It really worries me because I can chalk up a header coming awkwardly off a defender's head and landing at an opposition player's feet as an unfortunate moment but we have so many L1 players who just lose the ability to do what should by now be instinctive parts of their jobs every single game. It's phenomenal.
It’s so bizarre that he watched the whole move with his hands on his knees.
I rate him for being very solid, but he hasn’t been in recent weeks, which is a real concern.
Edit: Perhaps if Ikpeazu hadn't been there in front of Massey he would have been more active?
One other thing: Watching Arsenal v Liverpool yesterday you can see how many players Liverpool get behind the ball when defending. We had a thin black line defending the goal, when we should had at least two other players in or around the D perhaps.
Ikpeazu steps back away from goal to create space as soon as Massey gets it. He's read Massey's intentions but Jones hasn't. Jones has a second to step forward and he freezes. So very Lavelley
If Jones steps forward and breaks out of the defensive line, Massey can slip the ball past him through to Ikpeazu for a 1v1 shot on goal. As a defender, there are certain situations where you're told to hold your position and this was one of them IMO.
Playing the percentages: Massey's shot from 20 yards was less likely to go in than Ikpeazu having a shot from 10 yards.
The bigger problem IMO is the fact that a pass was allowed to find Massey in that position in the first place. Dobson or Watson should be goalside of him.
Any defender should be able to see when a player is about to shoot, and at least attempt the block. Not to move at all was an bit odd. But I agree Massey should have been better marked, for sure. That’s what happens when you have a weak squad - Watson should have been subbed twenty minutes earlier, but Fraser was deemed not to be the sort of player you want to bring on when you’re up against it.
Sadly @Callumcafc football in the last moments of a game, hanging on to a slender 3-2 win isn't played by a computer simulator.
You put your bollocks on the line Throw yourself at the ball And expect, in injury time, tiredness and compsure to eradicate clear thinking and precision passes
In Division 3 football At that time You ensure the shot doesn't get past you You play to win At all costs
That's where we are going wrong
We need to show some bloody desire to stop the ball getting to the goal
End of
Asking a professional football player to be a professional isn't playing a computer simulator. Go look at any top centre back in that situation and I reckon 99% of the time they don’t close the shot down when there’s a striker ready to run off them like Jones had there.
Don’t think desire is the issue - 20 opposition shots blocked in the last three games is quite a sizeable number. It’s the sheer amount of shots that we’re allowing recently that’s become the problem.
29 shots faced against Port Vale is frankly abysmal. Two or three are bound to find the net at that rate.
Looking back at those goals I make the second and third Jones errors more than anything else, which is frustrating. For the second AMB soft paws it in to his goal for sure, but Jones gets absolutely done in his own box on a header where the defender doesn't have a run on him which just shouldn't happen. Weak, weak defending. Then for the third he just stands there Lavelle-style, doesn't get out to the attacker even though there's absolutely no space for anyone to run in behind him and I think if anything he screens the shot from the keeper's sight which explains why he didn't dive. It's injury time, Massey has taken the ball out from his feet and pushed forward, it's so obvious a shot is coming and Jones hops on the spot, I assume in an attempt to make Massey laugh and distract him? It's just so poor, we get very caught up in the big errors where defenders fall over or pass the ball to the opposition but those are unusual moments (less so for us but anyway). The amount of basic defending mistakes the players make is insane though. It really worries me because I can chalk up a header coming awkwardly off a defender's head and landing at an opposition player's feet as an unfortunate moment but we have so many L1 players who just lose the ability to do what should by now be instinctive parts of their jobs every single game. It's phenomenal.
It’s so bizarre that he watched the whole move with his hands on his knees.
I rate him for being very solid, but he hasn’t been in recent weeks, which is a real concern.
Edit: Perhaps if Ikpeazu hadn't been there in front of Massey he would have been more active?
One other thing: Watching Arsenal v Liverpool yesterday you can see how many players Liverpool get behind the ball when defending. We had a thin black line defending the goal, when we should had at least two other players in or around the D perhaps.
Ikpeazu steps back away from goal to create space as soon as Massey gets it. He's read Massey's intentions but Jones hasn't. Jones has a second to step forward and he freezes. So very Lavelley
If Jones steps forward and breaks out of the defensive line, Massey can slip the ball past him through to Ikpeazu for a 1v1 shot on goal. As a defender, there are certain situations where you're told to hold your position and this was one of them IMO.
Playing the percentages: Massey's shot from 20 yards was less likely to go in than Ikpeazu having a shot from 10 yards.
The bigger problem IMO is the fact that a pass was allowed to find Massey in that position in the first place. Dobson or Watson should be goalside of him.
Like most weeks, the problem isn’t usually our defenders and it’s actually what’s in front of them. I’ve said for a while that a new central midfielder will have more of an impact than replacing any of the back 4 (other than maybe Edun). Hopefully Bakinson is fit to start on Saturday and will make the difference
Sadly @Callumcafc football in the last moments of a game, hanging on to a slender 3-2 win isn't played by a computer simulator.
You put your bollocks on the line Throw yourself at the ball And expect, in injury time, tiredness and compsure to eradicate clear thinking and precision passes
In Division 3 football At that time You ensure the shot doesn't get past you You play to win At all costs
That's where we are going wrong
We need to show some bloody desire to stop the ball getting to the goal
End of
Asking a professional football player to be a professional isn't playing a computer simulator. Go look at any top centre back in that situation and I reckon 99% of the time they don’t close the shot down when there’s a striker ready to run off them like Jones had there.
Don’t think desire is the issue - 20 opposition shots blocked in the last three games is quite a sizeable number. It’s the sheer amount of shots that we’re allowing recently that’s become the problem.
29 shots faced against Port Vale is frankly abysmal. Two or three are bound to find the net at that rate.
We are in division three They were 15th, us 14th
I am going to argue if Jones closes him down they aren't good enough to slide rule the pass, take a shot and score.
The fact they had 29 shots and only scored 3 backs me up.
If we've only blocked 20 shots in 3 games that isn't huge either.
We're not in the Premier League We've not kept a clean sheet in 13 games!
I'd suggest what we are currently doing isn't working!!!!!
I think a big part of our defensive problem is our full backs. They are the worst in the division in my opinion. When was the last time you saw them block a cross. To be fair, Watson is a bit better than Edun but that isn't saying much.
Edun is kind of Clare 2. Quite good at running around and moving with the ball. Dedicated, combative. Will absolutely let you ghost past him. I sort of root for him but it's a bit doomed. He would definitely have done better than Fraser, Chem etc in midfield recently
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We have had some right shoddy turnouts when we venture up North but when we sell out places like Stevenage or Leyton Orient we give it the bigun' a bit, at least on social media.
Seen the sell out at Old Trafford mentioned numerous times but we don't bring a fraction of those numbers further south when we could.
I understand why people don't go though, rarely win and play shit. I am only mainly going because I really want to do 46/46 for once (real danger of failing Peterborough at home), I love visiting new grounds and I am enjoying my vlogs away.
If I didn't have those reasons I'd be tempted to watch Charlton TV tbh as it is good value.
Edit: Perhaps if Ikpeazu hadn't been there in front of Massey he would have been more active?
One other thing: Watching Arsenal v Liverpool yesterday you can see how many players Liverpool get behind the ball when defending. We had a thin black line defending the goal, when we should had at least two other players in or around the D perhaps.
The bigger problem IMO is the fact that a pass was allowed to find Massey in that position in the first place. Dobson or Watson should be goalside of him.
You put your bollocks on the line
Throw yourself at the ball
And expect, in injury time, tiredness and compsure to eradicate clear thinking and precision passes
In Division 3 football
At that time
You ensure the shot doesn't get past you
You play to win
At all costs
That's where we are going wrong
We need to show some bloody desire to stop the ball getting to the goal
End of
29 shots faced against Port Vale is frankly abysmal. Two or three are bound to find the net at that rate.
They were 15th, us 14th
I am going to argue if Jones closes him down they aren't good enough to slide rule the pass, take a shot and score.
The fact they had 29 shots and only scored 3 backs me up.
If we've only blocked 20 shots in 3 games that isn't huge either.
We're not in the Premier League
We've not kept a clean sheet in 13 games!
I'd suggest what we are currently doing isn't working!!!!!