The only goal we have conceded, in the cup, was a wonder shot from way out. We have a great starting point as if you don't concede you don't lose and one goal wins it. Blindingly obvious but no less true for it.
Blindingly obvious to everyone except one.
Yet we are not top & not even in an automatic spot. So please tell me why ? Why are we 3rd if we have scored in every league game AND not let in a goal. Because according to everyone, even Sir Nathan Jones keeping clean sheets wins you titles.
SO. FAR IT DOESNT.
Got to be a wind up surely?
Only you could find a way to moan about 3 wins and 3 clean sheets from 3 games, including 1 over a side expected to contend for automatic promotion.
Once again, I am not moaning.
I am simply stating a fact. People on here keep saying " clean sheets win you titles" and I have pointed out that we've won all our games by keeping a clean sheet. Now, if "clean sheet wins" win you titles then we should be top. But we're not. We aren't even top 2. So, for the last time, there must be something else that is needed to win you automatic promotion than a clean sheet win.
As they say on exam papers, please show your workings out.
If this was halfway through the season then sure, but we're 3 games in, so claiming that we aren't scoring enough goals and clean sheets won't be enough is, quite frankly, meaningless. We're not going to keep 46 clean sheets. We're not going to win every game. The same is also true of the teams above us
For once & for all. I have not said we are not scoring enough goals & that clean sheets will not be enough.
I simply pointed out to all & sundry that just keeping a clean sheet isnt the be & end all of things, and the mantra of "clean sheets win you titles" is not theoretically true.
Now, just to stop all this guff I am not going to reply / defend myself about this any further. You can all think what you like but I know what I mean......and some of it is me being pedantic because of where we stand in the league. I do hope that in 12 games time this conversation will be irrelevant.
There was a moment in the first half when Coventry got back and put the ball out for a corner. The players ran over to him and celebrated almost like he'd just scored a goal. The desire to defend wasn't there last season - it was blank stares whenever anything went wrong... or even (rarely) right. The team looks like they're up for it and want to win games, not just pick up their packet and waltz about.
I couldn't work out why Bolton kept trying to play down the middle of us. As the oppo manager said the other week, once our press is beaten, we flood the middle with bodies but Bolton kept trying to break through that mass and so they created zilch. The space was out wide. I don't rate their manager.
I wondered when we'd see more from our new midfielders than just pressing and both Berry and Docherty have shown some of what they can do. Great performances.
It's football and anything can happen, but with one defeat in 19 (and that with players coming to the end of their contracts), and only one 30-yarder conceded this season, it looks like it will take something special if you want to beat this team.
The brilliant result will paper over another meh performance from Ahadme. I like the guy, it's impossible to dislike someone who works that hard, but he needs to stop panicking and start showing some quality. I'm starting to doubt if the quality is even there.
On the plus side, this system looks like it's built for Miles Leaburn. Can't wait to see what it looks like when he's playing.
The only goal we have conceded, in the cup, was a wonder shot from way out. We have a great starting point as if you don't concede you don't lose and one goal wins it. Blindingly obvious but no less true for it.
Blindingly obvious to everyone except one.
Yet we are not top & not even in an automatic spot. So please tell me why ? Why are we 3rd if we have scored in every league game AND not let in a goal. Because according to everyone, even Sir Nathan Jones keeping clean sheets wins you titles.
SO. FAR IT DOESNT.
Got to be a wind up surely?
Only you could find a way to moan about 3 wins and 3 clean sheets from 3 games, including 1 over a side expected to contend for automatic promotion.
Once again, I am not moaning.
I am simply stating a fact. People on here keep saying " clean sheets win you titles" and I have pointed out that we've won all our games by keeping a clean sheet. Now, if "clean sheet wins" win you titles then we should be top. But we're not. We aren't even top 2. So, for the last time, there must be something else that is needed to win you automatic promotion than a clean sheet win.
As they say on exam papers, please show your workings out.
If this was halfway through the season then sure, but we're 3 games in, so claiming that we aren't scoring enough goals and clean sheets won't be enough is, quite frankly, meaningless. We're not going to keep 46 clean sheets. We're not going to win every game. The same is also true of the teams above us
For once & for all. I have not said we are not scoring enough goals & that clean sheets will not be enough.
I simply pointed out to all & sundry that just keeping a clean sheet isnt the be & end all of things, and the mantra of "clean sheets win you titles" is not theoretically true.
Now, just to stop all this guff I am not going to reply / defend myself about this any further. You can all think what you like but I know what I mean......and some of it is me being pedantic because of where we stand in the league. I do hope that in 12 games time this conversation will be irrelevant.
I completely get what you’re saying golfie. Look at the top of The Premier League, Scottish PL, The Championship and as far as Stockport are concerned League One. The best teams generally score a lot of goals and the very best teams score a lot and concede few. However. Winning 4 - 0 gets you no more points than winning 1 - 0 and there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I absolutely love how much we trust our defence already. It’s only 3 games in and the solid foundation are there for all to see, we are controlling games out of possession.
There was so much to enjoy yesterday and watching it to the backing of the Covered End Choir filled me with those happy Valley feelings again. I really enjoyed the tactical battle in the middle of the park, NJ completely got the better of Evatt who mid way through the second half cut a despondent figure.
Collins and McAtee were eager to join the front line - we happily matched up 3v3 with CC sitting in-front and screening ball side. Everytime we turned it over and played into midfield, we’d overload Sheehan and Thomason 3 v 2.
Bolton adjusted slightly at half time, one of McAtee or Collins would delay their advance to avoid the overload on turnover. They had a really energetic spell for 10 mins but we weathered that period by staying disciplined, defending as a team as the first priority, winning our duels and completely nullified Bolton’s attempts. We look incredibly annoying to play against. Once we got our foot on the ball again and started to overload Sheehan and Thomason once more, Berry increased his runs beyond, you could see the frustration and stress the Bolton players were feeling. Thomason smashing it off the pitch then blaming the CB for not getting it (not sure Usain Bolt would’ve reached it), the constant looking to the ref for help and Santos ended up a bit of mess with little composure. The relentless slow turning of the screw throughout the game breaks oppositions down both physically and mentally. NJ talks of evolutions and his desire for offensive fluidity and I really believe there is so much more to come from us. Time to sit back and enjoy the journey.
Great performance all round, so much so I dont think there was a POTM as we won as a team.
My only gripe (about from the goalscoring 😉) is our crossing and free kicks remain awful. As I've said before, if you are using wingbacks then they have to be able to deliver decent crosses. Small seems to have regressed this season as his deliveries now are woeful. Ramsey doesn't try crossing anymore he just cuts in and gives the ball to a midfielder. And as for our free kicks& corners.....jesus what do they do in training. Surely someone else can take freekick or a corner.
Now it might sound churlish to be moaning when we've won our first 3 games & not let goal in, but it would be a better watch if we could actually do these simple things.
Moan over.
I think you watch a match looking for negatives. There were a couple of really good corners. Right into the danger area and away from the keeper. The fact that our players didn’t get close to those was not down to the delivery. I assume you had nipped out too trap 3 and missed Chucks missing a great chance from a corner? Another great corner.
Despite a bit of a rocky performance from Santos (poor pass for our first) he was still pretty solid, and I'd have him here in a heartbeat. If we go up, the exact kind of player I'd like to take off their hands.
Fair play to TC for actually getting the best of him the one time he did, one of the hardest one on ones he will get this season.
Absolutely wouldn’t touch Santos in the Championship
More importantly I don't think Jones would either - nor at L1 level either. A Jones CB needs to be mobile, comfortable on the ball and have a degree of flexibility. Santos is not really any of those things. His strengths (such as they are) are beating forwards in the air or taking them out on the deck. Which are valuable skills in certain setups but not the Jones method.
The Bolton player I was most impressed with yesterday was Collins.
Yeah if it’s true that we were after him, I would have really liked Collins here. I think that Schon who they’ve recently signed from Hungary will be a very decent player too.
One average game by Santos doesn't dismiss what he is. I would have him over any of our centre backs. He's quicker, stronger and a better passer (usually). He's also more Championship ready than any of our centre backs currently I'd say.
Jones has had a very good start, and has won headers for days, I like Mitchell so far, and I'm still not sure at all about Gillesphey tbh, think he's been massively helped playing in a back 5 so far.
It's all positive, but I'd drop Gillesphey in a heartbeat for Santos, and I imagine Jones would as well if he could, he is right up Jones street in terms of player profile.
A conversation worth having 20 games from now, if there is one.
The Bolton player I was most impressed with yesterday was Collins.
He's absolutely class, can play pretty much anywhere up top as well. Their squad is genuinely ridiculous imo so they may be right about their manager.
I still think it's too soon for them to switch, as it's only 3 games in, but if he can't get it done this time, they never will with him. They've got a few championship quality, attackers, midfielders, defenders and I don't doubt for one second Baxter would cope in the championship.
Still buzzing we beat them, makes me believe we can just beat anyone now. Looks like Stockport, Huddersfield and Birmingham are the other teams to worry about, but with this team and manager, they won't be getting any points from us easily.
One average game by Santos doesn't dismiss what he is. I would have him over any of our centre backs. He's quicker, stronger and a better passer (usually). He's also more Championship ready than any of our centre backs currently I'd say.
Jones has had a very good start, and has won headers for days, I like Mitchell so far, and I'm still not sure at all about Gillesphey tbh, think he's been massively helped playing in a back 5 so far.
It's all positive, but I'd drop Gillesphey in a heartbeat for Santos, and I imagine Jones would as well if he could, he is right up Jones street in terms of player profile.
A conversation worth having 20 games from now, if there is one.
And yet despite the seasons in League 1, no one has made a move to take him to the Championship. He’s looked good against us, but nothing to write home about, I’ve seen him on the Telly and thought he wasn’t all that, and less said about his performance at Wembley in May.
Watching the Sky highlights now, what's the point in getting our players to say their names before the start of the season if the commentators will completely ignore it? Doh-er-tea scored our goal apparently, not Dock-er-tee, and we have a striker called Ad-arr-me too, instead of Ah-had-may. Oh and An-arr-kay had a great free header and then put in a delicious cross for Gad-hen (where is the A I'm Godden?!) for the second goal.
One average game by Santos doesn't dismiss what he is. I would have him over any of our centre backs. He's quicker, stronger and a better passer (usually). He's also more Championship ready than any of our centre backs currently I'd say.
Jones has had a very good start, and has won headers for days, I like Mitchell so far, and I'm still not sure at all about Gillesphey tbh, think he's been massively helped playing in a back 5 so far.
It's all positive, but I'd drop Gillesphey in a heartbeat for Santos, and I imagine Jones would as well if he could, he is right up Jones street in terms of player profile.
A conversation worth having 20 games from now, if there is one.
And yet despite the seasons in League 1, no one has made a move to take him to the Championship. He’s looked good against us, but nothing to write home about, I’ve seen him on the Telly and thought he wasn’t all that, and less said about his performance at Wembley in May.
wouldn’t take him over Mitchell or Jones.
That is true, but that could be for a multitude of reasons. Maybe offers have come in and the club rejected, maybe Santos didn't want to leave. There could be so many reasons, but there will be plenty of occasions where players are punching below their weight or up.
All a matter of opinions anyway, I still think he's the best centre back in this league (that I've watched play) others won't.
Jones has had a very decent start, and I think Mitchell might be the best centre back we have had for some time, it is very early doors though, and similar to Mannion, we haven't seen enough yet. I'll be curious to see how they get on vs a side that has a lot of quick forwards, as I don't think any of them are blessed with much pace.
One average game by Santos doesn't dismiss what he is. I would have him over any of our centre backs. He's quicker, stronger and a better passer (usually). He's also more Championship ready than any of our centre backs currently I'd say.
Jones has had a very good start, and has won headers for days, I like Mitchell so far, and I'm still not sure at all about Gillesphey tbh, think he's been massively helped playing in a back 5 so far.
It's all positive, but I'd drop Gillesphey in a heartbeat for Santos, and I imagine Jones would as well if he could, he is right up Jones street in terms of player profile.
A conversation worth having 20 games from now, if there is one.
And yet despite the seasons in League 1, no one has made a move to take him to the Championship. He’s looked good against us, but nothing to write home about, I’ve seen him on the Telly and thought he wasn’t all that, and less said about his performance at Wembley in May.
wouldn’t take him over Mitchell or Jones.
Have to agree. I’ve never been particularly impressed unless he’s playing against us and that was because we were awful each time and made him look good. Thought he was very poor in the play offs second leg. Championship standard? Not on your Nelly.
Absolutely wouldn’t touch Santos in the Championship
More importantly I don't think Jones would either - nor at L1 level either. A Jones CB needs to be mobile, comfortable on the ball and have a degree of flexibility. Santos is not really any of those things. His strengths (such as they are) are beating forwards in the air or taking them out on the deck. Which are valuable skills in certain setups but not the Jones method.
Not sure about that. I think the reason Jones and Gillesphey look so much better this season is that they are not being asked to do anything with the ball other than very simple passes or long balls into the channel. Their roles have been simplified. Alex Mitchell is a good defender but also quite limited in possession, especially for an outside centre back
Santos would probably excel in a similar set up at this level. I think being strong in the air is a key part of being a Jones centre back, as the easiest way to beat a high press is just playing direct. That’s what Bolton tried by bringing Adeboyejo on at half time but Jones dealt with him very well
On a positive note, it was good to see Berry having a lot of the ball & being an outlet around the middle of the pitch. Especially second half where he found space to launch an attack once Coventry or one of the defenders gave him the ball. Something we've been missing for the last couple of seasons.
And I'm wondering whether Leaburn will be missing spark up front.....replacing Ahadme like Kermorgant did with Hayes.
Was thinking the same re Ahadme / Hayes, works hard holds the ball well but not going to score goals. Had forgotten about Leaburn was more thinking if only we could find another Yann (very very unlikely)
The only goal we have conceded, in the cup, was a wonder shot from way out. We have a great starting point as if you don't concede you don't lose and one goal wins it. Blindingly obvious but no less true for it.
Blindingly obvious to everyone except one.
Yet we are not top & not even in an automatic spot. So please tell me why ? Why are we 3rd if we have scored in every league game AND not let in a goal. Because according to everyone, even Sir Nathan Jones keeping clean sheets wins you titles.
SO. FAR IT DOESNT.
Got to be a wind up surely?
Only you could find a way to moan about 3 wins and 3 clean sheets from 3 games, including 1 over a side expected to contend for automatic promotion.
Once again, I am not moaning.
I am simply stating a fact. People on here keep saying " clean sheets win you titles" and I have pointed out that we've won all our games by keeping a clean sheet. Now, if "clean sheet wins" win you titles then we should be top. But we're not. We aren't even top 2. So, for the last time, there must be something else that is needed to win you automatic promotion than a clean sheet win.
As they say on exam papers, please show your workings out.
If this was halfway through the season then sure, but we're 3 games in, so claiming that we aren't scoring enough goals and clean sheets won't be enough is, quite frankly, meaningless. We're not going to keep 46 clean sheets. We're not going to win every game. The same is also true of the teams above us
For once & for all. I have not said we are not scoring enough goals & that clean sheets will not be enough.
I simply pointed out to all & sundry that just keeping a clean sheet isnt the be & end all of things, and the mantra of "clean sheets win you titles" is not theoretically true.
Now, just to stop all this guff I am not going to reply / defend myself about this any further. You can all think what you like but I know what I mean......and some of it is me being pedantic because of where we stand in the league. I do hope that in 12 games time this conversation will be irrelevant.
I completely get what you’re saying golfie. Look at the top of The Premier League, Scottish PL, The Championship and as far as Stockport are concerned League One. The best teams generally score a lot of goals and the very best teams score a lot and concede few. However. Winning 4 - 0 gets you no more points than winning 1 - 0 and there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The team winning by 4-0 will be higher in the table than the team winning 1-0, so in effect, it is more points. As a bonus, the fans get better entertainment.
One average game by Santos doesn't dismiss what he is. I would have him over any of our centre backs. He's quicker, stronger and a better passer (usually). He's also more Championship ready than any of our centre backs currently I'd say.
Jones has had a very good start, and has won headers for days, I like Mitchell so far, and I'm still not sure at all about Gillesphey tbh, think he's been massively helped playing in a back 5 so far.
It's all positive, but I'd drop Gillesphey in a heartbeat for Santos, and I imagine Jones would as well if he could, he is right up Jones street in terms of player profile.
A conversation worth having 20 games from now, if there is one.
It's not just one poor game by Santos though, it's one poor game against us after we've already seen him murder us several times and decided he's better than he is, a bit like we did with Scott Fraser. Bolton fans have been thinking he's overrated for a couple of seasons now and they see his tendency to panic and give the ball away more and more frequently going by what they say. Decent in L1 but that's his ceiling, he's not Championship ready and I think that's quite clearly proven by the fact that despite making L1 appearances across 7 seasons no Championship team has ever wanted him. Aside from the fact you'd be mad to play Santos anywhere other than the centre of a 3, Gillesphey has a L1 winner's medal which is more than Santos can say. I definitely wouldn't switch the left footed left-sided CB who has won L1 playing in that position and hasn't conceded a league goal yet in this set-up for him. Santos is still a good player mind, but I wouldn't be falling over myself to get a 29 year old centre back who is a career third division player, certainly not over Jones or Mitchell either.
Another win, 9 points from 9, another clean sheet, a win against a good team in Bolton and even a second goal which was scored by a striker. I hope the locks on the toilets are still broken or we’re going to have very little to complain about this week
I’m waiting on Golfie to complain that goals do matter - because we are currently 3rd due to amount of goals scored.
Said that to my son after the game 😀
I couldn't give a fuck about clean sheets. Just win games & then make sure you win by 2 or 3.
Then I think you are due a season of disappointment. Jones would obviously rather win 1-0 than 5-2.
What did jones say in his PM interview about Charlton (the place) ?
That area isn’t affluent, which is right, small pockets of wealth, but generally a working class part of London where live isn’t easy
Exactly. People ain’t easy with their money so if they come the team better turn up.
The area never has been affluent and it needn’t be anyway for people to afford to go.
When we were in the top division in 1987 it cost an adult £3.50 to stand behind the goal (at Selhurst - prices would have been the same at The Valley) which inflation based is £9.81 today. Charlton charged this much for a stream of a bottom half 3rd division team last season. Junior Reds paid £1.50 which is £4.20 today.
Football is way overpriced everywhere and the ever increasing number of empty seats in stadiums is proving that. I don’t think the degree of affluence around the ground has anything to do with it anyway - our support comes from far and wide of Charlton.
Comments
I simply pointed out to all & sundry that just keeping a clean sheet isnt the be & end all of things, and the mantra of "clean sheets win you titles" is not theoretically true.
Now, just to stop all this guff I am not going to reply / defend myself about this any further. You can all think what you like but I know what I mean......and some of it is me being pedantic because of where we stand in the league. I do hope that in 12 games time this conversation will be irrelevant.
There was a moment in the first half when Coventry got back and put the ball out for a corner. The players ran over to him and celebrated almost like he'd just scored a goal. The desire to defend wasn't there last season - it was blank stares whenever anything went wrong... or even (rarely) right. The team looks like they're up for it and want to win games, not just pick up their packet and waltz about.
I couldn't work out why Bolton kept trying to play down the middle of us. As the oppo manager said the other week, once our press is beaten, we flood the middle with bodies but Bolton kept trying to break through that mass and so they created zilch. The space was out wide. I don't rate their manager.
I wondered when we'd see more from our new midfielders than just pressing and both Berry and Docherty have shown some of what they can do. Great performances.
It's football and anything can happen, but with one defeat in 19 (and that with players coming to the end of their contracts), and only one 30-yarder conceded this season, it looks like it will take something special if you want to beat this team.
The brilliant result will paper over another meh performance from Ahadme. I like the guy, it's impossible to dislike someone who works that hard, but he needs to stop panicking and start showing some quality. I'm starting to doubt if the quality is even there.
On the plus side, this system looks like it's built for Miles Leaburn. Can't wait to see what it looks like when he's playing.
UTA
The relentless slow turning of the screw throughout the game breaks oppositions down both physically and mentally. NJ talks of evolutions and his desire for offensive fluidity and I really believe there is so much more to come from us. Time to sit back and enjoy the journey.
210pm Fans bar, I look at the teams on my phone, remark to sister “Don’t know why that Santos is still down in League1”
310pm Text from Sister “That’s why he’s still in League1! “
Fair play to TC for actually getting the best of him the one time he did, one of the hardest one on ones he will get this season.
The editing was a nightmare 😂
Any feedback please always welcomed
Jones has had a very good start, and has won headers for days, I like Mitchell so far, and I'm still not sure at all about Gillesphey tbh, think he's been massively helped playing in a back 5 so far.
It's all positive, but I'd drop Gillesphey in a heartbeat for Santos, and I imagine Jones would as well if he could, he is right up Jones street in terms of player profile.
A conversation worth having 20 games from now, if there is one.
But we still stopped him
I still think it's too soon for them to switch, as it's only 3 games in, but if he can't get it done this time, they never will with him. They've got a few championship quality, attackers, midfielders, defenders and I don't doubt for one second Baxter would cope in the championship.
Still buzzing we beat them, makes me believe we can just beat anyone now. Looks like Stockport, Huddersfield and Birmingham are the other teams to worry about, but with this team and manager, they won't be getting any points from us easily.
wouldn’t take him over Mitchell or Jones.
Absolutely ridiculous
All a matter of opinions anyway, I still think he's the best centre back in this league (that I've watched play) others won't.
Jones has had a very decent start, and I think Mitchell might be the best centre back we have had for some time, it is very early doors though, and similar to Mannion, we haven't seen enough yet. I'll be curious to see how they get on vs a side that has a lot of quick forwards, as I don't think any of them are blessed with much pace.
Santos would probably excel in a similar set up at this level. I think being strong in the air is a key part of being a Jones centre back, as the easiest way to beat a high press is just playing direct. That’s what Bolton tried by bringing Adeboyejo on at half time but Jones dealt with him very well
I was very impressed with our first half performance in particular.
Based on the opening league matches, I think there's a good chance that we can finish the season without a defeat and without conceding a goal.
COYRs.
As a bonus, the fans get better entertainment.
The red-capped robin (Petroica goodenovii) is a small passerine bird native to Australia
When we were in the top division in 1987 it cost an adult £3.50 to stand behind the goal (at Selhurst - prices would have been the same at The Valley) which inflation based is £9.81 today. Charlton charged this much for a stream of a bottom half 3rd division team last season.
Junior Reds paid £1.50 which is £4.20 today.
If you don’t believe me check out the Bank of England’s inflation calculator website: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator
Football is way overpriced everywhere and the ever increasing number of empty seats in stadiums is proving that. I don’t think the degree of affluence around the ground has anything to do with it anyway - our support comes from far and wide of Charlton.