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Charlie Methven and Gavin Carter at Bromley Addicks

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  • Brief ramblings from me.

    Firstly, I have to admit I went in with a strong pre conceived idea on CM and having not been hugely impressed with GC when I heard him previously.  Did those opinions change; a little. 

    Gavin leading with how he was disappointed that Thomas Sandgaard chose to sell was an odd admission/opening and immediately made me question his judgement generally.  That aside however, he seemed genuine, very business like and is clearly a fan, there really is nothing to dislike and he came across as a sensible, trustworthy chap.

    CM is pretty much exactly as I expected.  I take a lot of what he says with a pinch of salt.  They are clearly not talking seriously to the Duchatelet' s about buying The Valley if they have not even asked the price, mutterings of billionaires doing things differently is utter nonsense used to dodge a question.

    What seems clear is that they have a plan.  The investors have bought Charlton as we are a) a London club, b) have potential (although I hope none of them put any credence on the 1.2 million people who have Charlton as their nearest local club quoted more than once by CM) c) because of our academy and d) because they did not want to buy a PL club but wanted to create value - so we are an investment, but we knew that already.

    The plan is not to spend our way to promotion but to improve the infrastructure of the club (which to be fair we have seen); to double down on our academy with more coaches etc, get us to 5th most productive in the country and then the PL clubs cannot ignore our right to be CAT1.  Bring through youth to make up a significant part of the squad so the first team spend can be more thinly spread over fewer, better players.  To be sustainable and create transfer dealing surpluses each year to ultimately end up like Brentford and Brighton, and to ultimately outperform our budget.

    I am not personally convinced that plan will be successful as we lose too much each season for long term plans, and investors will not stay around throwing money forever into a pit.  But at least their plan is better than Tommy Sandgaard's fantasy; Southgate's skull-duggary or RDs disgraceful ownership IMO. 

    Talk of a 4-5th biggest budget in L1 meaning we need to outperform our budget just for promotion from this tin pot league is not the stuff of dreams but good luck to them, at least they are putting building blocks in. 

    CM said that Oxford got promoted and are now mid table in the Championship with the 9th biggest L1 budget last season.
  • edited October 4
    Brief ramblings from me.

    Firstly, I have to admit I went in with a strong pre conceived idea on CM and having not been hugely impressed with GC when I heard him previously.  Did those opinions change; a little. 

    Gavin leading with how he was disappointed that Thomas Sandgaard chose to sell was an odd admission/opening and immediately made me question his judgement generally.  That aside however, he seemed genuine, very business like and is clearly a fan, there really is nothing to dislike and he came across as a sensible, trustworthy chap.

    CM is pretty much exactly as I expected.  I take a lot of what he says with a pinch of salt.  They are clearly not talking seriously to the Duchatelet' s about buying The Valley if they have not even asked the price, mutterings of billionaires doing things differently is utter nonsense used to dodge a question.

    What seems clear is that they have a plan.  The investors have bought Charlton as we are a) a London club, b) have potential (although I hope none of them put any credence on the 1.2 million people who have Charlton as their nearest local club quoted more than once by CM) c) because of our academy and d) because they did not want to buy a PL club but wanted to create value - so we are an investment, but we knew that already.

    The plan is not to spend our way to promotion but to improve the infrastructure of the club (which to be fair we have seen); to double down on our academy with more coaches etc, get us to 5th most productive in the country and then the PL clubs cannot ignore our right to be CAT1.  Bring through youth to make up a significant part of the squad so the first team spend can be more thinly spread over fewer, better players.  To be sustainable and create transfer dealing surpluses each year to ultimately end up like Brentford and Brighton, and to ultimately outperform our budget.

    I am not personally convinced that plan will be successful as we lose too much each season for long term plans, and investors will not stay around throwing money forever into a pit.  But at least their plan is better than Tommy Sandgaard's fantasy; Southgate's skull-duggary or RDs disgraceful ownership IMO. 

    Talk of a 4-5th biggest budget in L1 meaning we need to outperform our budget just for promotion from this tin pot league is not the stuff of dreams but good luck to them, at least they are putting building blocks in. 

    CM said that Oxford got promoted and are now mid table in the Championship with the 9th biggest L1 budget last season.

    Getting promoted from League 1 isn't an exact science:

    Oxford managed on a modest budget yet Ipswich threw money at it but it was only their 2nd and 3rd window when they finally managed to bring together a strong side which last time I checked are in the Premier and getting a draw against Villa. If the decent 38 year old Keiran McKenna manages to keep Ipswich up in the Premier this season, and it will be a challenge, he will be courted by even more top teams than he is already.
    Personally I hope he stays at Ipswich.
    Kompany took Burnley up and down and yet, still got the Bayern Munich job.

    This has to be said (sorry Joe) but it was when they realized that Pigott, Fraser, Bonne and any other players connected with CAFC just aren't good enough that they kicked on up the table and to higher divisions.
    Sad but true. 
  • edited October 4
    I believe CM, in response to our lack of transfer spend, said that only 6 English clubs generally spend more on transfers than they receive.
  • Frankly, wish I lived a lot closer to Bromley! This meeting sounded great and huge thanks to all
    those that have taken time to share updates and perspectives. A really good read and regardless of current team form, it sounds progressive in general for the club 👏
  • He also said we spent £1.3M in the summer if I remember correctly?  Basically it was a £600K spend over and above the Alfie May money.  I was trying to figure out who the money was spent on... So my guesses as it was not discussed...

    1. A Mitchell £250K (CM number yesterday)
    2. K Dixson £100K (CM number yesterday)
    3. Edwards maybe £100K
    4. Mannion, Berry, Docherty, Potts all free.
    5. Godden - At his age I cant believe it was more than £50-100K
    6. Ahadme - would then be £750K and a straight May swap...

  • I wasn’t there and didn’t hear what was said, but I will make two observations.

    Retail revenue is bound to be up sharply, because the effect of taking it in-house is to put all sales - and cost of sales - on the books. Previously the club received only a percentage based on turnover. I would expect sales also to be up given Castore were useless, but that’s not the same thing.

    .
    He cited revenues being up by £2m. When asked how he said about commercial, and gave examples of the doubling of beer sales and retail going up from £600k to £1.2m. 

    On reflection, there was no insight into when that revenue gain was measured from and to, and given that retail has only come back in house in the last few months that seems significant to me, but no idea on how measurable it truly is and from when, or whether it was a projection exampled as a fact. 

    Others please correct me if I’ve relayed those figures wrong. 
  • NabySarr said:
    On my way now, I have my own questions in mind, but I don't mind asking for someone if it's an important question. 

    I.e., I'm not willing to ask what Charlie Methvens favourite football chant is. :) 
    CM only got the proper hump when Braziliance suggested that TC, KA and DK weren’t good enough to be starting.
    His reply was well that’s your opinion.

    The issue being that the owners wanted a London club with a strong academy and therefore you can’t fully develop these players unless they get into the first team.
    With the greatest respect to the players I mentioned, as I really like them, they just aren't. If our primary objective is promotion, which it should be, those lads shouldn't be starting. They'll improve by being around the first team and getting minutes and being subs. They wouldn't start for Birmingham or Bolton, so they shouldn't start here imo.

    What he says is a good strategy in theory, but it's also a flawed one in current practice, as you'd never build a team strong enough for promotion. All the youth that would be good enough, would only be sold like Lookie, Konsa, Gomez etc. The only way you can truly utilise youth and play them in the teams is in the upper leagues, isn't realistic in league 1. 

    He was dismissive of your question about the transfer fees, and tried to make a fool of your maths, but it was a valid question. Our transfer budget wasn't significant and we didn't spend much.

    He can say we spent double other league 1 teams but the stats online suggest we didn't and even if we did, it's not much of a brag anyway as we spent it poorly. He alluded to money being spent on Coventry but that's now been cleared up as no fee. 

    All in all, I think he talks well, and he's a good spokesman, he'd make an excellent politician, but there was a bit of dodging as expected, and their plan isn't a great one imho. I still have my doubts about them. A couple of billionaires in love with a football club, would have made more of an impact. 

    Finally, his comments about youth were wide of the mark, very wide. Young fans will be harder to retain if we stay in this league/remain bad at football, no amount of Chicken George or a free drink will change that. No offense chicken george.
    Not saying you are wrong (I agree with you on Kanu and Anderson), but our last promotion team had Phillips, Dijksteel, Aribo and Grant as regular starters and then Lapslie and Morgan squad players. It can be done 
    That is true, but when you look at those academy products, they were genuinely top players. AMB is a top, top bloke, but he isn't on Phillips level, we don't have an academy level defender near Dijksteel at present, Aribo was an elite level league one player, we were very fortunate to have him, ditto Grant until we sold him. I'd say Lapslie and Morgan are the two at a similar level to our current crop, and shouldn't be playing for a club at the top end league 1.

    The other big difference is when we did it last time, we had two young premier league loans in Cullen and Bielik who were probably the best two mids in the league, Lyle Taylor who was no doubt in my mind the best striker in the league, Patrick Bauer who was one of the top centre backs. We just had so much quality, arguably a lower end championship side. 

    Now look at this team and who is even close to that level? I'd say Lloyd Jones and Alex Mitchell have potential to replicate Bauers form, I don't see any of our midfielders living up to the standards of Cullen, Bielik, or, Aribo, it's not even worth discussing forward options I'd say, Lyle is on a different level to all of them.

    So I agree with him that it's a good and sensible strategy in theory, but what happens when the youth aren't good enough, what happens when we have to sell the youth player etc. I think we are getting those answers right now. 

    Gavin Carter seems a nice man, very friendly and I don't get any bad vibes from him, my gut instinct with Charlie Methven, is like any politician, he's so well spoken, that it's very easy to just go along with what he says, I am still very skeptical and will remain that way until we see some consistency on the pitch and at Charlton. I appreciate them still attending and the people behind putting the meeting together, I did enjoy it.
    "Well spoken" is a lovely term.
  • Brief ramblings from me.

    Firstly, I have to admit I went in with a strong pre conceived idea on CM and having not been hugely impressed with GC when I heard him previously.  Did those opinions change; a little. 

    Gavin leading with how he was disappointed that Thomas Sandgaard chose to sell was an odd admission/opening and immediately made me question his judgement generally.  That aside however, he seemed genuine, very business like and is clearly a fan, there really is nothing to dislike and he came across as a sensible, trustworthy chap.

    CM is pretty much exactly as I expected.  I take a lot of what he says with a pinch of salt.  They are clearly not talking seriously to the Duchatelet' s about buying The Valley if they have not even asked the price, mutterings of billionaires doing things differently is utter nonsense used to dodge a question.

    What seems clear is that they have a plan.  The investors have bought Charlton as we are a) a London club, b) have potential (although I hope none of them put any credence on the 1.2 million people who have Charlton as their nearest local club quoted more than once by CM) c) because of our academy and d) because they did not want to buy a PL club but wanted to create value - so we are an investment, but we knew that already.

    The plan is not to spend our way to promotion but to improve the infrastructure of the club (which to be fair we have seen); to double down on our academy with more coaches etc, get us to 5th most productive in the country and then the PL clubs cannot ignore our right to be CAT1.  Bring through youth to make up a significant part of the squad so the first team spend can be more thinly spread over fewer, better players.  To be sustainable and create transfer dealing surpluses each year to ultimately end up like Brentford and Brighton, and to ultimately outperform our budget.

    I am not personally convinced that plan will be successful as we lose too much each season for long term plans, and investors will not stay around throwing money forever into a pit.  But at least their plan is better than Tommy Sandgaard's fantasy; Southgate's skull-duggary or RDs disgraceful ownership IMO. 

    Talk of a 4-5th biggest budget in L1 meaning we need to outperform our budget just for promotion from this tin pot league is not the stuff of dreams but good luck to them, at least they are putting building blocks in. 

    CM said that Oxford got promoted and are now mid table in the Championship with the 9th biggest L1 budget last season.
    Perhaps he should take his 'expertise' there then.
  • I believe CM, in response to our lack of transfer spend, said that only 6 English clubs generally spend more on transfers than they receive.
    So why can't we be the 7th?
  • edited October 4
    He also said we spent £1.3M in the summer if I remember correctly?  Basically it was a £600K spend over and above the Alfie May money.  I was trying to figure out who the money was spent on... So my guesses as it was not discussed...

    1. A Mitchell £250K (CM number yesterday)
    2. K Dixson £100K (CM number yesterday)
    3. Edwards maybe £100K
    4. Mannion, Berry, Docherty, Potts all free.
    5. Godden - At his age I cant believe it was more than £50-100K
    6. Ahadme - would then be £750K and a straight May swap...

    Higher on Godden and lower on Adadme IMHO.  £250-300k and £400-500k maybe.

    Neither feel very good value so far - Godden might start to, but worries me how little he's starting and whether it's because of his age.
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  • I wasn’t there and didn’t hear what was said, but I will make two observations.

    Retail revenue is bound to be up sharply, because the effect of taking it in-house is to put all sales - and cost of sales - on the books. Previously the club received only a percentage based on turnover. I would expect sales also to be up given Castore were useless, but that’s not the same thing.

    .
    He cited revenues being up by £2m. When asked how he said about commercial, and gave examples of the doubling of beer sales and retail going up from £600k to £1.2m. 

    On reflection, there was no insight into when that revenue gain was measured from and to, and given that retail has only come back in house in the last few months that seems significant to me, but no idea on how measurable it truly is and from when, or whether it was a projection exampled as a fact. 

    Others please correct me if I’ve relayed those figures wrong. 
    Sounds about right to me.
    I'd have liked to "dig further" but I'm conscious that I ask the most questions as it is and don't want to give everyone the hump.
  • Be interested in what kind of kit deal they end up doing to replace Castore and who we end up with 
  • I'd hope we don't go to a catalogue Nike/Puma/Adidas kit. From what I recall Umbro kits are now Castore using the name under licence. Would like Hummel back if their distribution issues they had a couple of years back are all sorted now. 
  • He also said we spent £1.3M in the summer if I remember correctly?  Basically it was a £600K spend over and above the Alfie May money.  I was trying to figure out who the money was spent on... So my guesses as it was not discussed...

    1. A Mitchell £250K (CM number yesterday)
    2. K Dixson £100K (CM number yesterday)
    3. Edwards maybe £100K
    4. Mannion, Berry, Docherty, Potts all free.
    5. Godden - At his age I cant believe it was more than £50-100K
    6. Ahadme - would then be £750K and a straight May swap...

    Higher on Godden and lower on Adadme IMHO.  £250-300k and £400-500k maybe.

    Neither feel very good value so far - Godden might start to, but worries me how little he's starting and whether it's because of his age.
    Agree, think that sounds more realistic. Godden was said to be “up to £400k” from the Coventry end. Therefore £2-300k up front feels about right.

    https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/transfer-news/coventry-transfers-charlton-matty-godden-29463751.amp
  • MarcusH26 said:
    I'd hope we don't go to a catalogue Nike/Puma/Adidas kit. From what I recall Umbro kits are now Castore using the name under licence. Would like Hummel back if their distribution issues they had a couple of years back are all sorted now. 
    I like the Adidas and Puma kits. Nike can do one. 
  • Charlie was keen to make clear (mentioned 2 or 3 times) that he was not involved in the football decision making, he was ‘just about budgets’.

    When asked who is accountable for the football strategy, spend of football budget etc it was said to be Rodwell. 
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  • edited October 4
    Another thing I'm not sure has been mentioned, is a chap infronf of me asked about Roland's mindset towards us and if he has a grudge. 

    Gavin Carter said he doesn't think the protests helped, which I wasn't really a fan of hearing. The fans who travelled to Belgium and persisted with protests played a crucial part in wanting Roland to move the club on I imagine. 

    I took that again, as a way of using an excuse of not buying the Valley. Roland is a greedy business man, he's quoted us a price before, if we play the waiting game, and the club is inherited by his family, they may be even worse than him. Sometimes it's better the devil you know.

    I actually came away quite concerned how they've distanced themselves from purchasing the Valley. It sounds crucial as part of their revenue plans, but they seem to be relying solely on a fair stadium rent. This plan would be fine, if they went for broke for promotion, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Again maybe I've read it wrong, just my view. My gut tells me right now, this group of owners will be looking to move the club on within the next 5 years, while keeping the club fairly stationary. Hope I'm very wrong. 
    You might want to revise that figure if we're still in division 3 in 18 months time.
    Carter is talking rubbish if he thinks the protests have any connection to Dushitelet's mindset.
  • edited October 4
    Any club in League 1 that doesn't own their ground will be doing the same as us, and most in the league above too, not many clubs have £50m to drop at any given point. 

    Lot easier to spend that if you've just got Premier League money and the club is worth a couple of hundred million. 

    Until Roland or his family realise the asking price set is never going to happen, securing a long term lease is the only option. Thankfully, whilst not impossible, it's incredibly difficult to find someone else to buy it and put us out on our ear
  • He also said we spent £1.3M in the summer if I remember correctly?  Basically it was a £600K spend over and above the Alfie May money.  I was trying to figure out who the money was spent on... So my guesses as it was not discussed...

    1. A Mitchell £250K (CM number yesterday)
    2. K Dixson £100K (CM number yesterday)
    3. Edwards maybe £100K
    4. Mannion, Berry, Docherty, Potts all free.
    5. Godden - At his age I cant believe it was more than £50-100K
    6. Ahadme - would then be £750K and a straight May swap...

    Higher on Godden and lower on Adadme IMHO.  £250-300k and £400-500k maybe.

    Neither feel very good value so far - Godden might start to, but worries me how little he's starting and whether it's because of his age.
    If we paid anything like £0.5M upfront for Ahadme then we should close down the club and all find alternative pastimes, we’ll never be able to overcome the embarrassment. 
  • Scoham said:
    Was anything said about players such as Leaburn, Jones and Zach Mitchell being offered new contracts so we don’t lose them for nothing next summer? (Or minimal compensation for the younger two)
    No.
    I kind of avoided the pure footballing side on the basis that it's not their remit.
  • edited October 4
    Another thing I'm not sure has been mentioned, is a chap infronf of me asked about Roland's mindset towards us and if he has a grudge. 

    Gavin Carter said he doesn't think the protests helped, which I wasn't really a fan of hearing. The fans who travelled to Belgium and persisted with protests played a crucial part in wanting Roland to move the club on I imagine. 

    I took that again, as a way of using an excuse of not buying the Valley. Roland is a greedy business man, he's quoted us a price before, if we play the waiting game, and the club is inherited by his family, they may be even worse than him. Sometimes it's better the devil you know.

    I actually came away quite concerned how they've distanced themselves from purchasing the Valley. It sounds crucial as part of their revenue plans, but they seem to be relying solely on a fair stadium rent. This plan would be fine, if they went for broke for promotion, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Again maybe I've read it wrong, just my view. My gut tells me right now, this group of owners will be looking to move the club on within the next 5 years, while keeping the club fairly stationary. Hope I'm very wrong. 
    You might want to revise that figure if we're still in division 3 in 18 months time.
    Carter is talking rubbish if he thinks the protests have any connection to Dushitelet's mindset.
    Carter may well be right.
    it's a 50/50 call for me as to whether Duchatelet holds a grudge, even if it's a small one.
    Let's be honest he's hardly likely to be doing us a favour is he.
  • sam3110 said:
    Any club in League 1 that doesn't own their ground will be doing the same as us, and most in the league above too, not many clubs have £50m to drop at any given point. 

    Lot easier to spend that if you've just got Premier League money and the club is worth a couple of hundred million. 

    Until Roland or his family realise the asking price set is never going to happen, securing a long term lease is the only option. Thankfully, whilst not impossible, it's incredibly difficult to find someone else to buy it and put us out on our ear
    The problem with the £50M for The Valley is that ESI agreed that figure knowing only too well that they were never going to pay that. Now Roland has the figure in his mind and would willingly go below that.
  • edited October 4
    So.............. we are very much a "business" first and foremost and are now owned by "shrewd" business savvy billionaires who have an extensive track record of successful business investments. "SWOT" was mentioned by CM on a few occasions (certainly more focus here than promotion say!!) and we are very much an Academy strong organisation that is strategically building its business model on the success of that pipeline, with the goal to generate revenue from selling on our developed talent to bridge the the gap between revenue and cost. I generally understand what is trying to be achieved, whilst the short term priorities and order of business success are probably different between business owner and to use a Meireism "client". I think we need to expect stability at the expense of short term shots at promotion (unless NJ can work a few miracles) whilst the foundations continue to be built upon in stages. January will be bland with a few of the overflow to depart with little to nothing coming in unless there is a realistic "opportunity" to improve somewhere. Post season will be a better window to target improvements in the first team, but expect the departures of Leaburn/Ramsey/A.N.Other to fund any incomings from the current budget and beyond.
     Therefore, I am after last night, left with the HOPE that the business plan that CM has sold to both his investors and clients alike will bear fruit........ even if I don't believe in it!!!!

    Business responsibility/financial sense are the magnetic pole opposite of success on the grass for League One football clubs :neutral: Charlie and friends are clearly advocates of the former.
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Roland Out Forever!