I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

Scoham

Laddick01 said:

Dykes and Carey for Kelman and TC was baffling (TC maybe injured but still)

They were shitting themselves all first half at that long ball. Completely lost that second half and they cruised to victory. 

Stuff like that just makes me question wtf Jones is seeing.

Surely he can see that, and it’s the lack of depth and quality that’s the issue. TC was injured as you say, and at some point you need to use subs to freshen things up. We didn’t have any pace and trickery to bring on, Dykes, Godden, Carey and Knibbs were our best attacking options.

MrBurns

He cost us this game and I would still be happy to see the back off him in the summer

Dazzler21

The Red Robin said:

He shouldn’t be immune from criticism and it’s not ridiculous to question if he’s the right person long-term. 

 He got us promoted, if he keeps us up, he's met this season's objective... It's been ugly but football is a business and the owners will purely see he's met his objectives so far. 

The question is fair and we'll see this summer and into next season if he's good enough as a manager. For me the players have been the bigger question this season. 

LittleAddick

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

Chunes

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

Bowyer was blessed with a midfield. 

LittleAddick

Chunes said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

Bowyer was blessed with a midfield. 

Yes, but again, baffling that even back then on a proper shoe-string budget, we assembled a somewhat decent midfield. It's not like he simply inherited it.

The Red Robin

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

That’s true to an extent. All I’d say in defence of this season is that The Championship has moved on considerably since then. In terms of money and quality. 

MarcusH26

The Red Robin said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

That’s true to an extent. All I’d say in defence of this season is that The Championship has moved on considerably since then. In terms of money and quality. 

This is the biggest point for me is the financial muscle needed to be competitive has gone up a lot. £10m might seem like a lot of money for us to spend in a window but it barely scratches the surface in the Champ nowadays. 

LittleAddick

The Red Robin said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

That’s true to an extent. All I’d say in defence of this season is that The Championship has moved on considerably since then. In terms of money and quality. 

Money yes, but quality? I'm not so sure. That season a Brentford team of Watkins, Benrahma, Mbeamo and Raya weren't good enough to get promoted, not having that this year's Millwall or Ipswich are on their standard.

DamoNorthStand

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

And it makes the Powell season after the league 1 title look positively superhuman.

Croydon

MarcusH26 said:

The Red Robin said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

That’s true to an extent. All I’d say in defence of this season is that The Championship has moved on considerably since then. In terms of money and quality. 

This is the biggest point for me is the financial muscle needed to be competitive has gone up a lot. £10m might seem like a lot of money for us to spend in a window but it barely scratches the surface in the Champ nowadays. 

Even worse that we spent it so poorly then

LittleAddick

Croydon said:

MarcusH26 said:

The Red Robin said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

That’s true to an extent. All I’d say in defence of this season is that The Championship has moved on considerably since then. In terms of money and quality. 

This is the biggest point for me is the financial muscle needed to be competitive has gone up a lot. £10m might seem like a lot of money for us to spend in a window but it barely scratches the surface in the Champ nowadays. 

Even worse that we spent it so poorly then

I'd also add that we were the 4th biggest spenders that window in the league.

MarcusH26

Croydon said:

MarcusH26 said:

The Red Robin said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

That’s true to an extent. All I’d say in defence of this season is that The Championship has moved on considerably since then. In terms of money and quality. 

This is the biggest point for me is the financial muscle needed to be competitive has gone up a lot. £10m might seem like a lot of money for us to spend in a window but it barely scratches the surface in the Champ nowadays. 

Even worse that we spent it so poorly then

Exactly. I know there's no such thing as a perfect transfer window and not every signing is going to work out , but you shouldn't really be needing to be using the Jan window to course correct as much as we needed to. I hope lessons have been learnt from it. 

The Red Robin

LittleAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

That’s true to an extent. All I’d say in defence of this season is that The Championship has moved on considerably since then. In terms of money and quality. 

Money yes, but quality? I'm not so sure. That season a Brentford team of Watkins, Benrahma, Mbeamo and Raya weren't good enough to get promoted, not having that this year's Millwall or Ipswich are on their standard.

No - but more teams are at a better standard than just one or two now. There is a gulf within the league. 

Uboat

DamoNorthStand said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

And it makes the Powell season after the league 1 title look positively superhuman.

Amen

Dazzler21

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

Erm are we going to ignore the massive gulf in quality of inherited squad?

Stussussex1905

We cannot trust Jones with another transfer budget. His recruitment at every club fails and that is his downfall.

A pleasant goodbye at the end of the season 

DamoNorthStand

For the first time, I am seeing scenarios where I can imagine a change of manager.

Not necessarily saying i would do it, but I can imagine it happening.

- If we go down, from where we were after Boro, something has gone seriously wrong somewhere. Would be a total capitulation.

In that circumstance, and with the standard of football served up, I dont think it would be a surprise.

Oakster2

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

We've been pretty dire since we lost 5-1 at home to Saints following an away defeat to Wrexham. Luck has been on our side in terms of red cards, points deductions and opponents missing numerous chances.

Trying to scrape a result by conceding possession and relying on your opponents to miss their chances is not a good long term strategy.

We looked okay at the start of the season but have just got steadily worse. I'm not actually seen a team play worse than us in recent months.

If we stay up and have the same squad next season our luck will run out. 

Averaging a point per game since Xmas Day - 23 from 23 - the trajectory is not brilliant

Croydon

I dont think that just keeping us up in a season that has seen two clubs in turmoil deducted points, should be enough to guarantee he has a job here next season. The manner in which this season has finished, and the football on show, should at least lead to a discussion.

Crispywood

Croydon said:

I dont think that just keeping us up in a season that has seen two clubs in turmoil deducted points, should be enough to guarantee he has a job here next season. The manner in which this season has finished, and the football on show, should at least lead to a discussion.

We talk about other clubs in turmoil do we never take into account we’ve got a horrific level of quality 

paulsturgess

Dazzler21 said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

Erm are we going to ignore the massive gulf in quality of inherited squad?

Compared with the circumstances bowyer managed in and the resources he had available to him in 19/20 , this season we should have been challenging for the title 

Croydon

Crispywood said:

Croydon said:

I dont think that just keeping us up in a season that has seen two clubs in turmoil deducted points, should be enough to guarantee he has a job here next season. The manner in which this season has finished, and the football on show, should at least lead to a discussion.

We talk about other clubs in turmoil do we never take into account we’ve got a horrific level of quality 

I stand by the opinion that overall, this is a weak championship. But even if it isn't, who signed all our poor players?

paulsturgess

Chunes said:

LittleAddick said:

This season has actually made the Bowyer Championship season seem more impressive in hindsight. We spent about 200k that season, had 3 proper relegation spots as opposed to this year's 2, lost our best player for half the year, and was under an embargo for January.  Yet somehow, this year despite spending 30x more we're barely any better.

Bowyer was blessed with a midfield. 

Oshilaja Albie Morgan and Ben Dempsey?

hudson-son-son

We did have England international Conor Gallagher for half a season that year.

I think it's reasonable he's being questioned, but at the same time I think our hot start set expectations too high. At the start of the season, staying up (barring a catostrophe) is a success. Any team who is promoted from the playoffs from League One should ultimately be the favourite to go down.

I think he's brought much more life to our club than we've had in a long time, and has a lot of rope left for me. That also includes a slow start next year.

Being a bottom half Championship team is where we are at, and I think at this level, this is what he is good at providing.

paulsturgess

Croydon said:

I dont think that just keeping us up in a season that has seen two clubs in turmoil deducted points, should be enough to guarantee he has a job here next season. The manner in which this season has finished, and the football on show, should at least lead to a discussion.

The idea of this being so binary “he keeps us up, he’s succeeded” is madness and blind protectionism of Jones from his disciples. 

Anyone with a brain should be assessing the nuances and the overall picture. 

If we had lost to Orient in the play off final last year, would that have instantly been a failure? 

We could conceivably have got 43 points and been utterly dire in a championship season and stayed up. Equally we could have got 54 , been completely obliterated by injuries (hasn’t happened), been subjected to mind boggling bad luck (we’ve barely had a moment of bad luck to speak of), and been relegated on GD.

you have to consider the overall performance. I wouldn’t sack Jones, by the way. But his position needs to be subject to very careful review. We’ve been shocking since about the first 6 games, witnessed basically zero improvement (regression) over the course of the season, zero tactical flexibility or awareness, careered down the table confronted with a comfortable run of fixtures, and been subject to some pretty incredible luck in our favour specifically the Great Valley Robbery of 17th Jan for which I expect Jones will be imprisoned in Belmarsh when his time ends with us, and Leicester being deducted points to kill them off. 

Was expecting a tough season. But, despite our limited resources, with what we have had available to us - we still should have been better than we have been. Pretty sure NJ agrees!

paulsturgess

+ If Oxford hadn’t gifted us the most mind bogglingly stupid peno in history - well, I’d be researching bus routes to Hayes Lane as we speak 

LargeAddick

paulsturgess said:

+ If Oxford hadn’t gifted us the most mind bogglingly stupid peno in history - well, I’d be researching bus routes to Hayes Lane as we speak 

And yet in the same game if the ref hadn’t given them a penalty that they later admitted wasn’t we’d be two points better off now and it’ll be done and dusted. But that doesn’t suit your narrative.

SELR_addicks

'You can't blame Jones when we have such a poor squad'. 

Who was the manager that signed the majority of these players and has an aversion to signing loan players that previously have been some of our best players? 

Chris_from_Sidcup

Scoham said:

Laddick01 said:

Dykes and Carey for Kelman and TC was baffling (TC maybe injured but still)

They were shitting themselves all first half at that long ball. Completely lost that second half and they cruised to victory. 

Stuff like that just makes me question wtf Jones is seeing.

Surely he can see that, and it’s the lack of depth and quality that’s the issue. TC was injured as you say, and at some point you need to use subs to freshen things up. We didn’t have any pace and trickery to bring on, Dykes, Godden, Carey and Knibbs were our best attacking options.

Where is Fullah? If he's injured then fair enough, but if he isn't then it's a disgrace that he is not on the bench and Luke Berry is. Like you say, when TC went off injured we had no one who could go at them.

Also where is Gough? Played at Middlesbrough, didn't do a lot wrong but we haven't seen him since and keep giving minutes to Gillesphey.