I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

charlton_hero · October 31

We may as well stick with Jones, he'll get us promoted from League One next season - no chance we get better with owners that want out.

IR94 · October 31

Think he knows tuesday is make or break.
Yes he could of been backed more, but even his signings with money have been awful,Collins, apter, tanto, kaminski, alli, ahadme all duds and other maybe too. Ironically its the players he inherited for the most part that have been the success of his tenure.

MarcusH26 · October 31

The ownership stuff is what baffles me and I wonder how far into the window that it became apparent that JF wanted out? I'm still laying most of the issues at the door of the owners not properly backing NJ. You can't have a summer window at this level where your main outlay is £1.5m on Mili Alli and expect anything more than another fight for survival.

FreshHaddock · October 31

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I assume they took a punt and hoped that we would be in the upper echelons of the league with a minimal spend and other investors would be pumping money into the club while they held 51% or thereabouts. In any case, I am afraid that I can't see any point in sacking Jones unless we are relegated. If we do so before relegation I think there are far deeper structural problems than the manager and his tactics so that alone is unlikely to help. If it could be demonstrated that top class Championship players wanted to sign for us and he rejected them (and had the budget to sign them), then perhaps I might change my view and start calling for his head, but I believe that is extremely improbable.

ElfsborgAddick · October 31

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

100%

Close this thread, absolutely nailed it, minus one poster, for a start.

The Red Robin · October 31

@Sword65pf has got it spot on. I said similar last week. Every time this club looks like it’s progressing, it stalls and falls back again.

NabySarr · October 31

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

The Red Robin · October 31

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

Then they should have sold Mbick and used the cash.

NabySarr · October 31

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

Then they should have sold Mbick and used the cash.

The bid came in on deadline day. We would have been down a striker and still had to wait until January to use the cash.

Sword65pf · October 31

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

A ridiculous gamble, NJ was worked out a long time ago, championship managers/ players are too good now to think we can tread water and not be overtaken is madness. I so hope the owners have something up their sleeves and are far cleverer than I can understand about running a football club. I’m absolutely fine with championship mid table obscurity with the odd dabble with the upper places, but to be battling relegation due to what seems to be self inflicted is no fun and long term damaging to the club. It’s not like they are turning people away from the ground.

The Red Robin · October 31

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

Then they should have sold Mbick and used the cash.

The bid came in on deadline day. We would have been down a striker and still had to wait until January to use the cash.

Do we think there was only interest on deadline day? Mbick has hardly been used anyway.

fenaddick · October 31

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

Then they should have sold Mbick and used the cash.

The bid came in on deadline day. We would have been down a striker and still had to wait until January to use the cash.

Do we think there was only interest on deadline day? Mbick has hardly been used anyway.

He was used enough when Kelman and Godden were injured that we’d have at the very least needed to have an U21 player on the bench

NabySarr · October 31

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

Then they should have sold Mbick and used the cash.

The bid came in on deadline day. We would have been down a striker and still had to wait until January to use the cash.

Do we think there was only interest on deadline day? Mbick has hardly been used anyway.

He was injured for most of the window. I doubt anyone would have wanted to spend that kind of money on him without at least seeing he’d recovered ok from that

NabySarr · October 31

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

A ridiculous gamble, NJ was worked out a long time ago, championship managers/ players are too good now to think we can tread water and not be overtaken is madness. I so hope the owners have something up their sleeves and are far cleverer than I can understand about running a football club. I’m absolutely fine with championship mid table obscurity with the odd dabble with the upper places, but to be battling relegation due to what seems to be self inflicted is no fun and long term damaging to the club. It’s not like they are turning people away from the ground.

Yes it was a ridiculous gamble. The choice was between that and losing a lot more money, and unfortunately they chose the gamble. Jones deserved the chance to be backed and try and take us forward, and if it didn’t work then we could have gone our separate ways. He didn’t get that chance and now it’s going to most likely end in him being sacked and us relegated

Sword65pf · October 31

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

A ridiculous gamble, NJ was worked out a long time ago, championship managers/ players are too good now to think we can tread water and not be overtaken is madness. I so hope the owners have something up their sleeves and are far cleverer than I can understand about running a football club. I’m absolutely fine with championship mid table obscurity with the odd dabble with the upper places, but to be battling relegation due to what seems to be self inflicted is no fun and long term damaging to the club. It’s not like they are turning people away from the ground.

Yes it was a ridiculous gamble. The choice was between that and losing a lot more money, and unfortunately they chose the gamble. Jones deserved the chance to be backed and try and take us forward, and if it didn’t work then we could have gone our separate ways. He didn’t get that chance and now it’s going to most likely end in him being sacked and us relegated

I think NJ truly believed he was going to be backed, I’m not as staunch a follower of NJ as yourself, but understand where you are with him. Ultimately I’d be astonished if he doesn’t go and take the wrap for the owners fuck up, that IMO is unfair on him.

Dave Rudd · October 31

I think you're all missing a key part of the owners' strategy. They are not stupid, you know.

As a Club, we have signficant assets and, if we need funds, some or all of those can be sold off.

Our Museum, for example, is the envy of the football World. OK, not many other clubs would care about the Greg Docherty 'Russian' doll or the Nigel Farage car sticker... but that's not the point. There's a market out there if you have the right connections.

The rental costs for 'our' stadium and training ground are minimal by modern standards and we have a squad of players who are the envy of many Leagues ... the Welsh Premier and the Kategoria Superiore in Albania to name but two.

But the jewel in our crown is the Senior Management Team.

We have offloaded the self-preeners and the narcissists. Methven's salmon trousers are a thing of the past.

Now, we have Gavin and Jim and new boy Ben.

This is the core of our Club and these are the foundations of our future success.

We should commend our owners for installing such an inspirational group and we should be grateful that we are in such safe hands. Nathan Jones is a pawn in the game.

And maybe we are too.

stjohnshill · October 31

Melrose said:

stjohnshill said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I am still for keeping Jones.

Me too but if he doesn’t get a win in the next 2 home games, sadly he will be gone.

Not that sadly in my opinnion. It's the worst football ive seen us play in many a long year.

Agree it’s never been great. But its been effective.

NJ has achieved every goal set for him - stay up, get us up and stay up again. How many other managers can say they've achieved all of their clubs goals in that time frame? Not many

Dave Rudd · October 31

stjohnshill said:

Melrose said:

stjohnshill said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I am still for keeping Jones.

Me too but if he doesn’t get a win in the next 2 home games, sadly he will be gone.

Not that sadly in my opinnion. It's the worst football ive seen us play in many a long year.

Agree it’s never been great. But its been effective.

NJ has achieved every goal set for him - stay up, get us up and stay up again. How many other managers can say they've achieved all of their clubs goals in that time frame? Not many

Next goal is third 'quartile'.

Confident?

Weegie Addick · October 31

The changes to the Championship financial rules won’t have helped us. The new rules reset the clock on spending - basically letting high spenders from the last couple of seasons (including Wrexham and Birmingham) off the hook.

queensland_addick · October 31

How do we know what conversations took place between Jones and the board in the summer?

Jones seemed to be very happy with the recruitment at the time, and even went out of his way to emphasise that we had had a great window and we hadn't even had to spend much money !

Jones is a super confident guy who isn't adverse to blowing his own trumpet.
So just maybe it was Jones's recruitment targets that dictated the amount we eventually spent, rather than the board refusing to provide more cash.

Holsgrove didn't want to come, but the cash was apparently there. JRS seemingly didn't happen because of Agent/Injury issues, not because the cash wasn't there.

It's easy to put two and two together and get five. But without knowing what conversations took place, it is impossible to know where the blame should be apportioned.

carly burn · 1:38AM

I'm trying to think of the actual successful signings Jones has overseen since his time started here.
I can only come up with Doch and maybe Godden?

follett · 4:18AM

carly burn said:

I'm trying to think of the actual successful signings Jones has overseen since his time started here.
I can only come up with Doch and maybe Godden?

Berry was good the season he signed. Can make arguments for Kelman, Bell and Carey although the latter two have dropped off this season.
People may disagree but Dykes, Clarke and Coady were quite important loan signings in helping us stay up. Bree also a decent loan signing.
Agree with the general sentiment recruitment has been poor though

Chris_from_Sidcup · 4:34AM

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

Then they should have sold Mbick and used the cash.

The bid came in on deadline day. We would have been down a striker and still had to wait until January to use the cash.

Fair point that we couldn't have spent the money until January but selling him would've hardly affected us much. He's played 150 minutes all season with 7 of his 8 appearances being as a late sub. We could've kept Kanu to do that.

Arthur_Trudgill · 7:15AM

There are 33 games left, so a long way to go.

Several teams with more, or a lot more, money than us are in a similar or worse place in the table.

Replacing Jones with a miracle manager that will improve the players and tactics, improve recruitment, reduce injuries, AND not be tempted by more money at Wrexham or Burnley, is not realistic.

In my view, while we are outside of the relegation zone, NJ should stay.

Chris_from_Sidcup · 7:21AM

carly burn said:

I'm trying to think of the actual successful signings Jones has overseen since his time started here.
I can only come up with Doch and maybe Godden?

Edwards (until his injury)
Bell
Carey (last season)
Dykes
Mesik looks ok
Koumetio has potential.
Bree and Coady on loan.

And i still think Kelman will prove to be a decent signing, personally i think we look a better team when he starts.

NabySarr · 8:47AM

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

I don’t get the owners strategy really, they’ve stumped up a lot of money so far, they look like they gave up in the summer, but , going down they get less back to make up losses, are they accepting going down for less losses?, surely they’d have been better off doing all they can to have a championship club to sell. Somehow we seem to have a club in limbo again.

I think the strategy was to gamble on Nathan Jones being able to continue to punch above his weight and keep us in the championship without them upping their investment, while looking to sell. It is a gamble that looks to be backfiring massively

Then they should have sold Mbick and used the cash.

The bid came in on deadline day. We would have been down a striker and still had to wait until January to use the cash.

Fair point that we couldn't have spent the money until January but selling him would've hardly affected us much. He's played 150 minutes all season with 7 of his 8 appearances being as a late sub. We could've kept Kanu to do that.

Keeping Kanu would mean having to de-register someone else. Kelman and Godden were both injured at the time. Fans would have rightly been fuming if we’d sold Mbick and been left with Leaburn as our only fit striker

RonnieMoore · 8:51AM

IR94 said:

Think he knows tuesday is make or break.
Yes he could of been backed more, but even his signings with money have been awful,Collins, apter, tanto, kaminski, alli, ahadme all duds and other maybe too. Ironically it’s the players he inherited for the most part that have been the success of his tenure.

Think we are seeing how good Kaminski was and was a major reason we stayed up .. the defence that was our rock just have no confidence in AO in like they did with Kaminski

LargeAddick · 8:53AM

RonnieMoore said:

IR94 said:

Think he knows tuesday is make or break.
Yes he could of been backed more, but even his signings with money have been awful,Collins, apter, tanto, kaminski, alli, ahadme all duds and other maybe too. Ironically it’s the players he inherited for the most part that have been the success of his tenure.

Think we are seeing how good Kaminski was and was a major reason we stayed up .. the defence that was our rock just have no confidence in AO in like they did with Kaminski

Can't work out if you are a WUM or just odd.

CharltonManor1966 · 8:55AM

I hope that we get a 4 points out of Bolton and Blades and that will probably keep the status quo for a little while longer?
Problem is they don't trust Jones with yet more money......
I reckon that if they do wave NJ bye bye, the owners might just roll the dice one more time in January to try and keep us up. Another 5 million?
Maybe a new manager might just get a functioning attacking midfielder and a half decent 10. Probably 2 serious loans in as well. Can't let the slide continue or it will be too deep in the mire to get out at any cost.
I still think that despite obvious weaknesses this team has got some good enough players but NJ has lost the plot.

Sambcafc · 8:58AM

I find it quite amazing how many fans are suggesting that we can’t find a better manager than Jones as a reason to stick with him. I’m hugely appreciative of what he’s done for this club. But the facts don’t lie this season:

- We are joint bottom of the recent form table (last 6)

- Bottom 3 for xG

- Bottom 3 for goals scored (only Preston on less)

- We’ve conceded 10 more goals than this time last season.

- Summer business has once again been a bust.

This is not me trying to be negative about Jones as I have largely wanted him to turn it around but I think we are a sinking ship and those stats show the direction of travel is one way.

Ultimately he has been the architect of his own downfall. Trying to change to a more attacking and possession based style without bringing in technical midfielders. The likes of which we see play in EVERY other decent championship team. That blame can only be laid at Jones door. Unfortunately we just won’t progress until the % success rate of our signings improves.

Has anyone he signed this summer been a success?

Our defence is considerably worse - so on the face of it the defenders haven’t improved us (despite the fact I like Koumetio and Mesik and Dmac).

In midfield, I don’t see any difference. In fact we are worse because Coady was better than Skipp. Ouma hilariously bad. Nate Chalobah - injured as we all knew he would be, Burke 2.0.

In attack, this part is laughable. Grant and Alli are so far off it. If these were identified as improvements to our attacking options I need a trial. Nkeng hasn’t played a minute despite the dire form of the above two and will be back on loan in L1 in Jan. Signing Godden back up was a mistake and has proven so. I thought NJ was ruthless?

I think we have lost leadership from this squad (Coady, Doc) and it’s not been replaced. At this stage if I were the owners I’d make the change now to give the new manager an easier run of games to start and an international break (won’t happen I know).

I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

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