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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Reading: Saturday 4th January 2025: KO 15:00
Comments
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I don't disagree but for me if we stick TC up top for a full season he isn't going to get the goals we need to be where we want to be. Leaburn has some leeway as he was coming back from injury but for me the lack of goals in this team will cost us a playoffJamesSeed said:
We've looked quite good over the last five or six games, and I think he's been an important part of that with his pace, and his newly discovered ability to hang onto the ball under pressure. His disallowed goal was a great finish.agim said:
I want nothing more than our guys to be successful especially the academy guys I just can't see us getting into the playoffs with him up top. Out wide yes but he doesn't suit the wing back formationcrookester said:
Both of TC's goals have been in his last 4 though and unlucky with the disallowed goal on Saturday. He looks a lot better imho in the new tweaked formation. I do agree he isn't a natural finisher but I think he offers a lot offensively.agim said:Decent performance from us in what was a entertaining game for a 0-0 draw.
Lloyd Jones is without doubt our most crucial player. The whole team looks more confident with him in our back line and the clean sheets/results speak for themselves.
I still think our problem is going forward. I'm not convinced by TC up top. Yes he's fast and tricky but lacks substance. Two league goals this season for someone that's predominantly played as a striker isn't good enough. We're at least ten goals short of a top six team and that's taking into account we hammered Northampton for five a few weeks ago which is a freak result so in reality I'd say we're 13-15 goals short and we all know where those goals have gone!
We're on a decent run, long may it continue and hopefully we strengthen in January
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This formation suits him as when defending he’s up front, in attack he can drift wide. He can use his energy to press from the front and run at players rather than having to track back.agim said:
I want nothing more than our guys to be successful especially the academy guys I just can't see us getting into the playoffs with him up top. Out wide yes but he doesn't suit the wing back formationcrookester said:
Both of TC's goals have been in his last 4 though and unlucky with the disallowed goal on Saturday. He looks a lot better imho in the new tweaked formation. I do agree he isn't a natural finisher but I think he offers a lot offensively.agim said:Decent performance from us in what was a entertaining game for a 0-0 draw.
Lloyd Jones is without doubt our most crucial player. The whole team looks more confident with him in our back line and the clean sheets/results speak for themselves.
I still think our problem is going forward. I'm not convinced by TC up top. Yes he's fast and tricky but lacks substance. Two league goals this season for someone that's predominantly played as a striker isn't good enough. We're at least ten goals short of a top six team and that's taking into account we hammered Northampton for five a few weeks ago which is a freak result so in reality I'd say we're 13-15 goals short and we all know where those goals have gone!
We're on a decent run, long may it continue and hopefully we strengthen in January
I think he’s a decent finisher, it’s composure he lacks at times to do it consistently, but I think he’s can get there.
As Steve Brown pointed out, TCs other weakness is his anticipation, reading where the ball is going and concentrating. It’s natural for some, but I think with game time and coaching in a team playing decent football it’s something he can improve.
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We won promotion with Josh Parker up front for half a season and I would say TC is a better player than Parker.5
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We had a geezer next to him banging in 25 goals and i think KAG had at least 10 before he left. This team doesn't score enough goalsExiled_Addick said:We won promotion with Josh Parker up front for half a season and I would say TC is a better player than Parker.2 -
He's not a centre forward for me he's far better on the wing.Scoham said:
This formation suits him as when defending he’s up front, in attack he can drift wide. He can use his energy to press from the front and run at players rather than having to track back.agim said:
I want nothing more than our guys to be successful especially the academy guys I just can't see us getting into the playoffs with him up top. Out wide yes but he doesn't suit the wing back formationcrookester said:
Both of TC's goals have been in his last 4 though and unlucky with the disallowed goal on Saturday. He looks a lot better imho in the new tweaked formation. I do agree he isn't a natural finisher but I think he offers a lot offensively.agim said:Decent performance from us in what was a entertaining game for a 0-0 draw.
Lloyd Jones is without doubt our most crucial player. The whole team looks more confident with him in our back line and the clean sheets/results speak for themselves.
I still think our problem is going forward. I'm not convinced by TC up top. Yes he's fast and tricky but lacks substance. Two league goals this season for someone that's predominantly played as a striker isn't good enough. We're at least ten goals short of a top six team and that's taking into account we hammered Northampton for five a few weeks ago which is a freak result so in reality I'd say we're 13-15 goals short and we all know where those goals have gone!
We're on a decent run, long may it continue and hopefully we strengthen in January
I think he’s a decent finisher, it’s composure he lacks at times to do it consistently, but I think he’s can get there.
As Steve Brown pointed out, TCs other weakness is his anticipation, reading where the ball is going and concentrating. It’s natural for some, but I think with game time and coaching in a team playing decent football it’s something he can improve.1 -
Many people have been praising AMB this week because of the number of clean sheets he has kept recently. Personally i think that is mainly due to the return of jones. I also think that mannon is the far better keeper he has just been unlucky with getting injured at the wrong time (when jones is playing).
In my opinion AMB is confident at all when he has the ball at his feet or even in his hands. When you watch him in the game he will always be telling his defence to push up so he can kick it long, but then he will change his mind again and again until eventually he will just do as Jones or Mitchell says.
When Mannion was playing i really thought he was far more confident with the ball at his feet and also far more commanding of his defence. He wouldn’t also just play the ball long when under pressure he could find a way out without giving someone a dodgy pass.
Mannion is was clearly also under far more pressure from attacks when he was playing as the stat shows he had to make 34 saves to AMB’s 18. Yet they have the same amount of CS and almost played the same number of games.
Not taking away from AMB’s recent performance as he has been pretty competent. I just think confidence in a team starts from the back
Personally i would like NJ to reinstate Mannion despite AMB’s recent performances.
Would like to hear other opinions??2 -
Which is where he plays when we attack and shift into a 4-2-3-1 shape.agim said:
He's not a centre forward for me he's far better on the wing.Scoham said:
This formation suits him as when defending he’s up front, in attack he can drift wide. He can use his energy to press from the front and run at players rather than having to track back.agim said:
I want nothing more than our guys to be successful especially the academy guys I just can't see us getting into the playoffs with him up top. Out wide yes but he doesn't suit the wing back formationcrookester said:
Both of TC's goals have been in his last 4 though and unlucky with the disallowed goal on Saturday. He looks a lot better imho in the new tweaked formation. I do agree he isn't a natural finisher but I think he offers a lot offensively.agim said:Decent performance from us in what was a entertaining game for a 0-0 draw.
Lloyd Jones is without doubt our most crucial player. The whole team looks more confident with him in our back line and the clean sheets/results speak for themselves.
I still think our problem is going forward. I'm not convinced by TC up top. Yes he's fast and tricky but lacks substance. Two league goals this season for someone that's predominantly played as a striker isn't good enough. We're at least ten goals short of a top six team and that's taking into account we hammered Northampton for five a few weeks ago which is a freak result so in reality I'd say we're 13-15 goals short and we all know where those goals have gone!
We're on a decent run, long may it continue and hopefully we strengthen in January
I think he’s a decent finisher, it’s composure he lacks at times to do it consistently, but I think he’s can get there.
As Steve Brown pointed out, TCs other weakness is his anticipation, reading where the ball is going and concentrating. It’s natural for some, but I think with game time and coaching in a team playing decent football it’s something he can improve.
The formation defending as a 5-3-2 with him up front means he doesn’t need to track back as a winger, which benefits his game. Defending isn’t his strength.
It does put more pressure on Leaburn to score though, as TC isn’t going to your 20 goal striker.
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AMB is playing well and as long as that remains he keeps his place for me.6
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Definitely wouldn’t swap him for Mannion at this point. Obviously if there’s a better option in the market we should try and sign them, ultimately AMB and Mannion are both fairly average ‘keepers at this level.MuttleyCAFC said:AMB is playing well and as long as that remains he keeps his place for me.0 -
I do agree but I guess it is hard to drop a goalkeeper that isn’t conceding any goals. I think AMB is the better shot-stopper but Mannion is better at everything else so is the better goalkeeper overall. I wonder if Mannion will get a chance against Preston?oscar___cafc said:Many people have been praising AMB this week because of the number of clean sheets he has kept recently. Personally i think that is mainly due to the return of jones. I also think that mannon is the far better keeper he has just been unlucky with getting injured at the wrong time (when jones is playing).
In my opinion AMB is confident at all when he has the ball at his feet or even in his hands. When you watch him in the game he will always be telling his defence to push up so he can kick it long, but then he will change his mind again and again until eventually he will just do as Jones or Mitchell says.
When Mannion was playing i really thought he was far more confident with the ball at his feet and also far more commanding of his defence. He wouldn’t also just play the ball long when under pressure he could find a way out without giving someone a dodgy pass.
Mannion is was clearly also under far more pressure from attacks when he was playing as the stat shows he had to make 34 saves to AMB’s 18. Yet they have the same amount of CS and almost played the same number of games.
Not taking away from AMB’s recent performance as he has been pretty competent. I just think confidence in a team starts from the back
Personally i would like NJ to reinstate Mannion despite AMB’s recent performances.
Would like to hear other opinions??0 - Sponsored links:
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Yeah definitely deserves another chance but NJ seems pretty adamant about his starting 11 at the moment and doesn’t even seem to trust the other players enough to make subs. Personally can’t see it happeningNabySarr said:
I do agree but I guess it is hard to drop a goalkeeper that isn’t conceding any goals. I think AMB is the better shot-stopper but Mannion is better at everything else so is the better goalkeeper overall. I wonder if Mannion will get a chance against Preston?oscar___cafc said:Many people have been praising AMB this week because of the number of clean sheets he has kept recently. Personally i think that is mainly due to the return of jones. I also think that mannon is the far better keeper he has just been unlucky with getting injured at the wrong time (when jones is playing).
In my opinion AMB is confident at all when he has the ball at his feet or even in his hands. When you watch him in the game he will always be telling his defence to push up so he can kick it long, but then he will change his mind again and again until eventually he will just do as Jones or Mitchell says.
When Mannion was playing i really thought he was far more confident with the ball at his feet and also far more commanding of his defence. He wouldn’t also just play the ball long when under pressure he could find a way out without giving someone a dodgy pass.
Mannion is was clearly also under far more pressure from attacks when he was playing as the stat shows he had to make 34 saves to AMB’s 18. Yet they have the same amount of CS and almost played the same number of games.
Not taking away from AMB’s recent performance as he has been pretty competent. I just think confidence in a team starts from the back
Personally i would like NJ to reinstate Mannion despite AMB’s recent performances.
Would like to hear other opinions??0 -
I don't think there's really that much between them, but if you delve a bit deeper into the appearance stats, they don't really back up the idea that AMB has had more protection due to Jones being back than Mannion benefitted from. In fact, AMB has played more matches without Jones, both in the League and in the Cups, than Mannion has and has played less matches overall (i.e. also less matches with Jones) but has kept more clean sheets overall and at a better per-game ratio.oscar___cafc said:Many people have been praising AMB this week because of the number of clean sheets he has kept recently. Personally i think that is mainly due to the return of jones. I also think that mannon is the far better keeper he has just been unlucky with getting injured at the wrong time (when jones is playing).
In my opinion AMB is confident at all when he has the ball at his feet or even in his hands. When you watch him in the game he will always be telling his defence to push up so he can kick it long, but then he will change his mind again and again until eventually he will just do as Jones or Mitchell says.
When Mannion was playing i really thought he was far more confident with the ball at his feet and also far more commanding of his defence. He wouldn’t also just play the ball long when under pressure he could find a way out without giving someone a dodgy pass.
Mannion is was clearly also under far more pressure from attacks when he was playing as the stat shows he had to make 34 saves to AMB’s 18. Yet they have the same amount of CS and almost played the same number of games.
Not taking away from AMB’s recent performance as he has been pretty competent. I just think confidence in a team starts from the back
Personally i would like NJ to reinstate Mannion despite AMB’s recent performances.
Would like to hear other opinions??
Factoring in shots faced would be an interesting comparison (one I don't have time to do), because I am willing to speculate that AMB has benefitted from us having more control of games, in recent weeks, and the defence as a whole has come under less pressure because of that. Nonetheless, the stats I've presented above, at least, don't back up the idea that Mannion has been better at stopping goals than AMB, either with or without Jones.
It's clear that the defence is better with Jones in it but it's not clear cut that switching keepers would take it onto the next level. I think Mannion is more likely to come and catch a cross and relieve pressure on the defence that way, but I think AMB is also more likely to make a big save in a big moment. Both have an error in them and that is to be expected of any goalkeeper in League One. To be fair to them both, neither have had any real howlers this season. AMB got stick at the weekend for the slow release of the ball, but Reading are a good pressing side and sometimes that quick release is an invitation for pressure from an opponent like that so it may have been deliberate.
You're right that confidence starts at the back, but a big part of solid defence is consistent of selection. Players build understanding of how their teammates will react and can adjust their positioning and decision making accordingly. I always cite Dean Kiely as the example. His kicking was ropey and he was most often rooted to his line when crosses were raining. He might be considered a poor, or at least flawed, keeper by some in the modern game. But... blimey Charlie, what a shot stopper he was! And because his actions were consistent and predictable, the defence knew he wasn't coming to claim the cross so they focused on dealing with them and left him to save any balls they didn't manage to clear (which he often did). If he'd been the type that tried to catch/punch everything they could've focused on dealing with anything he missed or dropped. The trouble really starts when a keeper does one or the other randomly. Then a defence doesn't know how or what it should compensate for. AMB was definitely guilty of that at times last season, but I haven't seen that same skittishness recently.
For now, I see no reason to change it because:
a) Our goals conceded record while AMB has been in the team is very good and unlikely to get significantly better, even if we were to sign a third goalkeeper in January who is better than both Mannion and AMB.
b) Consistency of team selection is big part of defences being consistent - even the top sides will rotate/rest players in attacks more than in their defences.
c) If you want the idea of players competing for places to help drive standards in the team/squad, then players who are in the team and playing well should, mostly, keep their shirt until they give a reason to lose it. In recent weeks AMB has been performing, is showing signs he has worked on and improved some of the issues he had last season, and the team is performing and getting results. If you drop him now, I think it send a bad message because it isn't like Mannion is a clear star player who should be considered an automatic starter in the way someone like, say, Leaburn or Jones might be considered.3 -
Yes he's drifts into the wide areas when attacking but like you say leaves a lot on Leaburn. We've also got Small on the other side who, although playing well isn't composed at all in front of goal. Berry can nick one but it brings me back to the original point that I don't feel we've got enough goals in the teamScoham said:
Which is where he plays when we attack and shift into a 4-2-3-1 shape.agim said:
He's not a centre forward for me he's far better on the wing.Scoham said:
This formation suits him as when defending he’s up front, in attack he can drift wide. He can use his energy to press from the front and run at players rather than having to track back.agim said:
I want nothing more than our guys to be successful especially the academy guys I just can't see us getting into the playoffs with him up top. Out wide yes but he doesn't suit the wing back formationcrookester said:
Both of TC's goals have been in his last 4 though and unlucky with the disallowed goal on Saturday. He looks a lot better imho in the new tweaked formation. I do agree he isn't a natural finisher but I think he offers a lot offensively.agim said:Decent performance from us in what was a entertaining game for a 0-0 draw.
Lloyd Jones is without doubt our most crucial player. The whole team looks more confident with him in our back line and the clean sheets/results speak for themselves.
I still think our problem is going forward. I'm not convinced by TC up top. Yes he's fast and tricky but lacks substance. Two league goals this season for someone that's predominantly played as a striker isn't good enough. We're at least ten goals short of a top six team and that's taking into account we hammered Northampton for five a few weeks ago which is a freak result so in reality I'd say we're 13-15 goals short and we all know where those goals have gone!
We're on a decent run, long may it continue and hopefully we strengthen in January
I think he’s a decent finisher, it’s composure he lacks at times to do it consistently, but I think he’s can get there.
As Steve Brown pointed out, TCs other weakness is his anticipation, reading where the ball is going and concentrating. It’s natural for some, but I think with game time and coaching in a team playing decent football it’s something he can improve.
The formation defending as a 5-3-2 with him up front means he doesn’t need to track back as a winger, which benefits his game. Defending isn’t his strength.
It does put more pressure on Leaburn to score though, as TC isn’t going to your 20 goal striker.
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I agree, I just said in the rumours thread we need to prioritise competition for TC and Small, and an upgrade on Berry. Get those right and we could end the season strongly. I could see that making a far bigger difference than a new GK or a CB to replace Gillesphey.agim said:
Yes he's drifts into the wide areas when attacking but like you say leaves a lot on Leaburn. We've also got Small on the other side who, although playing well isn't composed at all in front of goal. Berry can nick one but it brings me back to the original point that I don't feel we've got enough goals in the teamScoham said:
Which is where he plays when we attack and shift into a 4-2-3-1 shape.agim said:
He's not a centre forward for me he's far better on the wing.Scoham said:
This formation suits him as when defending he’s up front, in attack he can drift wide. He can use his energy to press from the front and run at players rather than having to track back.agim said:
I want nothing more than our guys to be successful especially the academy guys I just can't see us getting into the playoffs with him up top. Out wide yes but he doesn't suit the wing back formationcrookester said:
Both of TC's goals have been in his last 4 though and unlucky with the disallowed goal on Saturday. He looks a lot better imho in the new tweaked formation. I do agree he isn't a natural finisher but I think he offers a lot offensively.agim said:Decent performance from us in what was a entertaining game for a 0-0 draw.
Lloyd Jones is without doubt our most crucial player. The whole team looks more confident with him in our back line and the clean sheets/results speak for themselves.
I still think our problem is going forward. I'm not convinced by TC up top. Yes he's fast and tricky but lacks substance. Two league goals this season for someone that's predominantly played as a striker isn't good enough. We're at least ten goals short of a top six team and that's taking into account we hammered Northampton for five a few weeks ago which is a freak result so in reality I'd say we're 13-15 goals short and we all know where those goals have gone!
We're on a decent run, long may it continue and hopefully we strengthen in January
I think he’s a decent finisher, it’s composure he lacks at times to do it consistently, but I think he’s can get there.
As Steve Brown pointed out, TCs other weakness is his anticipation, reading where the ball is going and concentrating. It’s natural for some, but I think with game time and coaching in a team playing decent football it’s something he can improve.
The formation defending as a 5-3-2 with him up front means he doesn’t need to track back as a winger, which benefits his game. Defending isn’t his strength.
It does put more pressure on Leaburn to score though, as TC isn’t going to your 20 goal striker.4 -
The only upgrade on Berry we need is for him to increase the number of shots he has. We know he can score goals, he just needs to add more attempts from around the edge of the box. He does that and he creates another nightmare for the opposition defenders already having to cope with the pace of Small and TC and the physicality of Leaburn/Chuks.Scoham said:
I agree, I just said in the rumours thread we need to prioritise competition for TC and Small, and an upgrade on Berry. Get those right and we could end the season strongly. I could see that making a far bigger difference than a new GK or a CB to replace Gillesphey.agim said:
Yes he's drifts into the wide areas when attacking but like you say leaves a lot on Leaburn. We've also got Small on the other side who, although playing well isn't composed at all in front of goal. Berry can nick one but it brings me back to the original point that I don't feel we've got enough goals in the teamScoham said:
Which is where he plays when we attack and shift into a 4-2-3-1 shape.agim said:
He's not a centre forward for me he's far better on the wing.Scoham said:
This formation suits him as when defending he’s up front, in attack he can drift wide. He can use his energy to press from the front and run at players rather than having to track back.agim said:
I want nothing more than our guys to be successful especially the academy guys I just can't see us getting into the playoffs with him up top. Out wide yes but he doesn't suit the wing back formationcrookester said:
Both of TC's goals have been in his last 4 though and unlucky with the disallowed goal on Saturday. He looks a lot better imho in the new tweaked formation. I do agree he isn't a natural finisher but I think he offers a lot offensively.agim said:Decent performance from us in what was a entertaining game for a 0-0 draw.
Lloyd Jones is without doubt our most crucial player. The whole team looks more confident with him in our back line and the clean sheets/results speak for themselves.
I still think our problem is going forward. I'm not convinced by TC up top. Yes he's fast and tricky but lacks substance. Two league goals this season for someone that's predominantly played as a striker isn't good enough. We're at least ten goals short of a top six team and that's taking into account we hammered Northampton for five a few weeks ago which is a freak result so in reality I'd say we're 13-15 goals short and we all know where those goals have gone!
We're on a decent run, long may it continue and hopefully we strengthen in January
I think he’s a decent finisher, it’s composure he lacks at times to do it consistently, but I think he’s can get there.
As Steve Brown pointed out, TCs other weakness is his anticipation, reading where the ball is going and concentrating. It’s natural for some, but I think with game time and coaching in a team playing decent football it’s something he can improve.
The formation defending as a 5-3-2 with him up front means he doesn’t need to track back as a winger, which benefits his game. Defending isn’t his strength.
It does put more pressure on Leaburn to score though, as TC isn’t going to your 20 goal striker.0 -
Berry is a player , he just needs to produce some more .
He gets the ball and you can see his brain ticking over and him looking for a positive pass and to make things happen , the runs of his teammates aren’t that great and he nauses it up .
i think/hope there’s more and the best is yet to come with Berry , he’s got a bit of the X factor in my opinion and can produce something out of nothing but most of what he’s produced so far has been nothing 🙄3 -
Berry on a really good day can be a difference maker, same way as Jackson was in the sense of that last minute free kick, needs someone to bundle it in or smash a long-distance drive to rescue a point or get 3 instead of 1.oohaahmortimer said:Berry is a player , he just needs to produce some more .
He gets the ball and you can see his brain ticking over and him looking for a positive pass and to make things happen , the runs of his teammates aren’t that great and he nauses it up .
i think/hope there’s more and the best is yet to come with Berry , he’s got a bit of the X factor in my opinion and can produce something out of nothing but most of what he’s produced so far has been nothing 🙄
The problem is that for the rest of the game he's not currently offering very much at all. To be fair he's been kept mostly in reserves for probably this exact reason but he is one I would like to see upgraded if a younger, fitter option comes along.2 -
Definitely a good point in terms of consistency of selection and the fact that the defence are learning to deal with AMB’s weaknesses, and since our defence is so strong at the moment they are able to cope with AMB’s weaknesses (passing, coming out to punch the ball).Exiled_Addick said:
I don't think there's really that much between them, but if you delve a bit deeper into the appearance stats, they don't really back up the idea that AMB has had more protection due to Jones being back than Mannion benefitted from. In fact, AMB has played more matches without Jones, both in the League and in the Cups, than Mannion has and has played less matches overall (i.e. also less matches with Jones) but has kept more clean sheets overall and at a better per-game ratio.oscar___cafc said:Many people have been praising AMB this week because of the number of clean sheets he has kept recently. Personally i think that is mainly due to the return of jones. I also think that mannon is the far better keeper he has just been unlucky with getting injured at the wrong time (when jones is playing).
In my opinion AMB is confident at all when he has the ball at his feet or even in his hands. When you watch him in the game he will always be telling his defence to push up so he can kick it long, but then he will change his mind again and again until eventually he will just do as Jones or Mitchell says.
When Mannion was playing i really thought he was far more confident with the ball at his feet and also far more commanding of his defence. He wouldn’t also just play the ball long when under pressure he could find a way out without giving someone a dodgy pass.
Mannion is was clearly also under far more pressure from attacks when he was playing as the stat shows he had to make 34 saves to AMB’s 18. Yet they have the same amount of CS and almost played the same number of games.
Not taking away from AMB’s recent performance as he has been pretty competent. I just think confidence in a team starts from the back
Personally i would like NJ to reinstate Mannion despite AMB’s recent performances.
Would like to hear other opinions??
Factoring in shots faced would be an interesting comparison (one I don't have time to do), because I am willing to speculate that AMB has benefitted from us having more control of games, in recent weeks, and the defence as a whole has come under less pressure because of that. Nonetheless, the stats I've presented above, at least, don't back up the idea that Mannion has been better at stopping goals than AMB, either with or without Jones.
It's clear that the defence is better with Jones in it but it's not clear cut that switching keepers would take it onto the next level. I think Mannion is more likely to come and catch a cross and relieve pressure on the defence that way, but I think AMB is also more likely to make a big save in a big moment. Both have an error in them and that is to be expected of any goalkeeper in League One. To be fair to them both, neither have had any real howlers this season. AMB got stick at the weekend for the slow release of the ball, but Reading are a good pressing side and sometimes that quick release is an invitation for pressure from an opponent like that so it may have been deliberate.
You're right that confidence starts at the back, but a big part of solid defence is consistent of selection. Players build understanding of how their teammates will react and can adjust their positioning and decision making accordingly. I always cite Dean Kiely as the example. His kicking was ropey and he was most often rooted to his line when crosses were raining. He might be considered a poor, or at least flawed, keeper by some in the modern game. But... blimey Charlie, what a shot stopper he was! And because his actions were consistent and predictable, the defence knew he wasn't coming to claim the cross so they focused on dealing with them and left him to save any balls they didn't manage to clear (which he often did). If he'd been the type that tried to catch/punch everything they could've focused on dealing with anything he missed or dropped. The trouble really starts when a keeper does one or the other randomly. Then a defence doesn't know how or what it should compensate for. AMB was definitely guilty of that at times last season, but I haven't seen that same skittishness recently.
For now, I see no reason to change it because:
a) Our goals conceded record while AMB has been in the team is very good and unlikely to get significantly better, even if we were to sign a third goalkeeper in January who is better than both Mannion and AMB.
b) Consistency of team selection is big part of defences being consistent - even the top sides will rotate/rest players in attacks more than in their defences.
c) If you want the idea of players competing for places to help drive standards in the team/squad, then players who are in the team and playing well should, mostly, keep their shirt until they give a reason to lose it. In recent weeks AMB has been performing, is showing signs he has worked on and improved some of the issues he had last season, and the team is performing and getting results. If you drop him now, I think it send a bad message because it isn't like Mannion is a clear star player who should be considered an automatic starter in the way someone like, say, Leaburn or Jones might be considered.
However in my opinion AMB’s kicking is so poor that it is only so long until these mistakes do happen and the defence is unable to recover them. He could then loose his confidence completely therefore leading to more of these mistakes and possibly loosing a game and as a knock on effect our momentum as a club. Of course i am very much spiralling here, but i just don’t believe AMB has the confidence to bounce back when he makes a game changing mistake (because he hasn’t in the past). And because of his recent performances (also for the sake of consistency in picking the same 11) he won’t get changed out of the team that quickly it will take a few more to get the more confident goalkeeper in Mannion.
While writing this i have realised how bias i might be being but that is simply because when we are passing it around at the back i honestly have to hold my breath when AMB gets the ball.0 -
se9addick said:
His clearances are wild. They used to drive me insane, but after I became insane I now look forward to them.Chunes said:
He slices a lot of clearances for being the best technician at the club...Alwaysneil said:
He also has been playing badly with at least one or two poor mistakes a game that lead to oppo chances or goals. Dont recall any mistakes against wycombe but there were one or two against Reading.Leuth said:Gillesphey has that sad awkward lanky way about him that basically marks him out for abuse by our fans no matter what he does. He needs to proper nut someone or something
Post of the Year 👏🏻
Even if it was only 7th Jan 😃2 -
Taking bonkers criticism to a new level. Criticising AMB for mistakes he hasn't made yet?oscar___cafc said:
Definitely a good point in terms of consistency of selection and the fact that the defence are learning to deal with AMB’s weaknesses, and since our defence is so strong at the moment they are able to cope with AMB’s weaknesses (passing, coming out to punch the ball).Exiled_Addick said:
I don't think there's really that much between them, but if you delve a bit deeper into the appearance stats, they don't really back up the idea that AMB has had more protection due to Jones being back than Mannion benefitted from. In fact, AMB has played more matches without Jones, both in the League and in the Cups, than Mannion has and has played less matches overall (i.e. also less matches with Jones) but has kept more clean sheets overall and at a better per-game ratio.oscar___cafc said:Many people have been praising AMB this week because of the number of clean sheets he has kept recently. Personally i think that is mainly due to the return of jones. I also think that mannon is the far better keeper he has just been unlucky with getting injured at the wrong time (when jones is playing).
In my opinion AMB is confident at all when he has the ball at his feet or even in his hands. When you watch him in the game he will always be telling his defence to push up so he can kick it long, but then he will change his mind again and again until eventually he will just do as Jones or Mitchell says.
When Mannion was playing i really thought he was far more confident with the ball at his feet and also far more commanding of his defence. He wouldn’t also just play the ball long when under pressure he could find a way out without giving someone a dodgy pass.
Mannion is was clearly also under far more pressure from attacks when he was playing as the stat shows he had to make 34 saves to AMB’s 18. Yet they have the same amount of CS and almost played the same number of games.
Not taking away from AMB’s recent performance as he has been pretty competent. I just think confidence in a team starts from the back
Personally i would like NJ to reinstate Mannion despite AMB’s recent performances.
Would like to hear other opinions??
Factoring in shots faced would be an interesting comparison (one I don't have time to do), because I am willing to speculate that AMB has benefitted from us having more control of games, in recent weeks, and the defence as a whole has come under less pressure because of that. Nonetheless, the stats I've presented above, at least, don't back up the idea that Mannion has been better at stopping goals than AMB, either with or without Jones.
It's clear that the defence is better with Jones in it but it's not clear cut that switching keepers would take it onto the next level. I think Mannion is more likely to come and catch a cross and relieve pressure on the defence that way, but I think AMB is also more likely to make a big save in a big moment. Both have an error in them and that is to be expected of any goalkeeper in League One. To be fair to them both, neither have had any real howlers this season. AMB got stick at the weekend for the slow release of the ball, but Reading are a good pressing side and sometimes that quick release is an invitation for pressure from an opponent like that so it may have been deliberate.
You're right that confidence starts at the back, but a big part of solid defence is consistent of selection. Players build understanding of how their teammates will react and can adjust their positioning and decision making accordingly. I always cite Dean Kiely as the example. His kicking was ropey and he was most often rooted to his line when crosses were raining. He might be considered a poor, or at least flawed, keeper by some in the modern game. But... blimey Charlie, what a shot stopper he was! And because his actions were consistent and predictable, the defence knew he wasn't coming to claim the cross so they focused on dealing with them and left him to save any balls they didn't manage to clear (which he often did). If he'd been the type that tried to catch/punch everything they could've focused on dealing with anything he missed or dropped. The trouble really starts when a keeper does one or the other randomly. Then a defence doesn't know how or what it should compensate for. AMB was definitely guilty of that at times last season, but I haven't seen that same skittishness recently.
For now, I see no reason to change it because:
a) Our goals conceded record while AMB has been in the team is very good and unlikely to get significantly better, even if we were to sign a third goalkeeper in January who is better than both Mannion and AMB.
b) Consistency of team selection is big part of defences being consistent - even the top sides will rotate/rest players in attacks more than in their defences.
c) If you want the idea of players competing for places to help drive standards in the team/squad, then players who are in the team and playing well should, mostly, keep their shirt until they give a reason to lose it. In recent weeks AMB has been performing, is showing signs he has worked on and improved some of the issues he had last season, and the team is performing and getting results. If you drop him now, I think it send a bad message because it isn't like Mannion is a clear star player who should be considered an automatic starter in the way someone like, say, Leaburn or Jones might be considered.
However in my opinion AMB’s kicking is so poor that it is only so long until these mistakes do happen and the defence is unable to recover them. He could then loose his confidence completely therefore leading to more of these mistakes and possibly loosing a game and as a knock on effect our momentum as a club. Of course i am very much spiralling here, but i just don’t believe AMB has the confidence to bounce back when he makes a game changing mistake (because he hasn’t in the past). And because of his recent performances (also for the sake of consistency in picking the same 11) he won’t get changed out of the team that quickly it will take a few more to get the more confident goalkeeper in Mannion.
While writing this i have realised how bias i might be being but that is simply because when we are passing it around at the back i honestly have to hold my breath when AMB gets the ball.
Seems like some of our fans are just desperate to dig him out. If he was making mistakes and costing us goals then fair enough.
AMB looks more assured of late and deserves some credit for his improvement. He's not perfect but we're in L1 and I can't say I've seen many outstanding keepers playing for our opponents. No reason to put Mannion in at present.5 - Sponsored links:
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Imagine the uproar on here if NJ changes a winning team for the next game and we lose!!
Oh wait...... imagine the uproar on here if we lose the next game and NJ hasn't changed the team?! *shrugs*0 -
Exiled_Addick said:We won promotion with Josh Parker up front for half a season and I would say TC is a better player than Parker.
Josh Parker had 10 apps and no goals and because he had a decent game in the final the fact that he struggled in nearly all his games are forgotten.
Steve Gallen famously said he had a 1-5 list when it came to signings. We had so many knock backs that Parker was the 6th choice late on in the window.
We won promotion because Taylor, Bielik and Cullen were brilliant, especially in the 2nd part of that season and many others stepped up to the plate.
Parker scored against CAFC at the valley for Gillingham and that is usually a brownie point in the minds of some Charlton fans and which got Josh as high as 6th on Gallen's list.
I watched every home game and half a dozen away games that season and even saw Parker score 🤔
As an over age player in U21'S at the valley. That was his level.
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If NJ doesn't change the team and we win there'd still be uproar from some of our fans...🤦♂️WrightCharlie said:Imagine the uproar on here if NJ changes a winning team for the next game and we lose!!
Oh wait...... imagine the uproar on here if we lose the next game and NJ hasn't changed the team?! *shrugs*3 -
Current starting XI has everyone our fans could conceivably be baying to see included, with the possible exception of Godden. It's such an obvious starting XI I'm amazed it's only been recently instituted. But also, it's an injury or two away from disaster5
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Which is exactly the point - to get promoted not everyone had to be at level of a Bielik/Cullen/Aribo/Taylor. We could afford to carry some mediocre players because the overall team/squad strength was good enough. On his day TC is better than just mediocre anyway, but the point is there is room for someone of his level in a promotion challenging team, but he's not ready to be a leading man yet.soapboxsam said:Exiled_Addick said:We won promotion with Josh Parker up front for half a season and I would say TC is a better player than Parker.
Josh Parker had 10 apps and no goals and because he had a decent game in the final the fact that he struggled in nearly all his games are forgotten.
Steve Gallen famously said he had a 1-5 list when it came to signings. We had so many knock backs that Parker was the 6th choice late on in the window.
We won promotion because Taylor, Bielik and Cullen were brilliant, especially in the 2nd part of that season and many others stepped up to the plate.
Parker scored against CAFC at the valley for Gillingham and that is usually a brownie point in the minds of some Charlton fans and which got Josh as high as 6th on Gallen's list.
I watched every home game and half a dozen away games that season and even saw Parker score 🤔
As an over age player in U21'S at the valley. That was his level.1
