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Away fans housed in West Stand Upper - Testing in 25/26 season
Comments
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I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
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I always thought the Jimmy Seed would be the logical area for this but when we were looking to expand the ground in our Premier League days, weren't we looking at the East (Alan Curbishley) stand first?0
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This made me think that for fans at big clubs like Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc who have a ST near the away fans, if the game is then sold out in home areas for a big FA Cup game when the away team get a huge allocation, they must then lose their seat completely.se9addick said:
This is irrational, but fans (particularly relatively hardcore, ST owning fans) of football teams are irrational by nature. There’s nothing rational about our love for a professional sports organisation…Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Given this would probably only be done for teams like Crawley, Burton, Stevenage etc who bring 200 fans and would be the west stand block(s) nearest the JS stand, how many home fans would this impact?clive said:
If current Upper-West season ticket holders are unhappy with this idea & potentially don't renew for next season the club could lose income rather than save money.ElfsborgAddick said:
My old season ticket was in the section they'd want to pass over to the away fans.clive said:
YesChris_from_Sidcup said:Is the intention to stick away fans from smaller clubs in the west stand, so that the JS can be closed? Or so that we can put home fans in the JS?
If it's to totally close the JS then i think it's a bit shit. I'd rather see 200 Crawley fans in the away end than have a totally empty stand.
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Stand and temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
I'd not be pleased being moved on 'x' occasions.
It would also be a nightmare for the ticket office sorting this successfully.
When they did this for the Bournemouth game there was loads of problems.
I ended up getting hospitality for the Rotherham home game the following season as an apology.
There can't be too many fans who have a ST there? And if your ST is there then why, aren't you lonely stuck over there?
…so with that prelude over, even though I know it’s irrational, I would be annoyed if I got moved out of my long held ST seat even if for a couple of games a season to accommodate away fans. There’s something about the emotional attachment of having a spot in the stadium that feels like yours. The people around you, the view, the route to my seat - all of it connects me to something really important.The goodwill of the fans of this club, after the decade+ of dross that we’ve had to endure is nothing short of extraordinary and we underestimate it at our peril.
Seems a bit harsh, but i guess they are made aware of that when buying.0 -
This doesn’t smack of rich owners, does it?
All a bit weird. The timing is strange too when the team is doing so well.4 -
Ah I dont not agree, just saying it would be good to have home fans in there. If the JS and cupboard were full of vocal home fans, The Valley would be very noisy.golfaddick said:
We don't sell out the other 3 stands as it is so why would we want to start moving people from already partially filled stands 🤷♂️.shine166 said:Makes sense if you put home fans in there, not to leave it empty though.0 -
Waste what waste?Redrobo said:I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.1 -
Don't disagree.valleynick66 said:
Then ‘test’ what exactly?Henry Irving said:I've spoken to someone senior at the club and they referred back to the statement on the club website.
They reiterated that by no means are they suggesting shutting the Jimmy Seed.
They are, the person said, just looking to consult and get opinions while being fair and transparent with two blocks of season ticket holders.
I pointed out the logistical problems around segregation, access to toilets and kiosks and that very few teams that would bring so few fans outside the Bristol St Motors Trophy.
Their response was that "We are only talking about 2 blocks at the Jimmy Seed stand end for maybe a few games to test the idea. No one is talking about closing stands or relocating the whole stand".
What do they need to learn we dont already know?
I don't think it stacks up for various reason, as I pointed out to them, but this is what I was told.
I feel that they thought some people were making big leaps to "closing stands" or "relocating whole (home) stands" when they isn't their plan.
My view is when they look at the detail, the costs and the upheaval, it won't happen for a league game and then never again.1 -
I’m not blaming the messenger here but ‘leap’ is because the announcement says ‘close’ the stand.Henry Irving said:
Don't disagree.valleynick66 said:
Then ‘test’ what exactly?Henry Irving said:I've spoken to someone senior at the club and they referred back to the statement on the club website.
They reiterated that by no means are they suggesting shutting the Jimmy Seed.
They are, the person said, just looking to consult and get opinions while being fair and transparent with two blocks of season ticket holders.
I pointed out the logistical problems around segregation, access to toilets and kiosks and that very few teams that would bring so few fans outside the Bristol St Motors Trophy.
Their response was that "We are only talking about 2 blocks at the Jimmy Seed stand end for maybe a few games to test the idea. No one is talking about closing stands or relocating the whole stand".
What do they need to learn we dont already know?
I don't think it stacks up for various reason, as I pointed out to them, but this is what I was told.
I feel that they thought some people were making big leaps to "closing stands" or "relocating whole (home) stands" when they isn't their plan.
My view is when they look at the detail, the costs and the upheaval, it won't happen for a league game and then never again.If they don’t offer an explanation of why they would want to do it what do they expect?7 -
You could argue that a lot of rich people don't become rich by wasting money. And having an entire stand for 3k+ people open when the away team brings 300 probably falls in the category of wasting money.Valley11 said:This doesn’t smack of rich owners, does it?
All a bit weird. The timing is strange too when the team is doing so well.
As i've said earlier though, for me personally i'd rather keep the away end open.
@Airman Brown could probably advise us on what the rough savings would be.1 -
Yes but I think that relates to the temporary trials as it goes on to talk about maybe putting home fans in therevalleynick66 said:
No it says:DOUCHER said:
No it doesn’t say that, it talks about home fans in there possibly - you’ve assumed it will be shutvalleynick66 said:
That’s isn’t the suggestion.DOUCHER said:
Not bothered for a few games really tbh and if it gives us flexibility to use the JS as well or give an extra area for away fans if they can sell extra then it makes sense - bothers me more seeing half full east and west standsvalleynick66 said:
Why would you want to see an empty stand ?DOUCHER said:
Yes but only when we play the minnows I think is what it’s saying - makes sense to meclive said:
YesChris_from_Sidcup said:Is the intention to stick away fans from smaller clubs in the west stand, so that the JS can be closed? Or so that we can put home fans in the JS?
If it's to totally close the JS then i think it's a bit shit. I'd rather see 200 Crawley fans in the away end than have a totally empty stand.
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Stand and temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
It means you move a few home supporters to accommodate a few away supporters to save a few quid.It’s nonsense. A true lose lose scenario.The stand will be fully closed.
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Standand temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.0 - Sponsored links:
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Henry Irving said:I've spoken to someone senior at the club and they referred back to the statement on the club website.
They reiterated that by no means are they suggesting shutting the Jimmy Seed.
They are, the person said, just looking to consult and get opinions while being fair and transparent with two blocks of season ticket holders.
I pointed out the logistical problems around segregation, access to toilets and kiosks and that very few teams that would bring so few fans outside the Bristol St Motors Trophy.
Their response was that "We are only talking about 2 blocks at the Jimmy Seed stand end for maybe a few games to test the idea. No one is talking about closing stands or relocating the whole stand".I smell something and it isn't roses.Tone deaf. Just get us promoted , then once you have achieved something we can discuss.6 -
It’s really only a question of how many stewards you need but segregating a tier isn’t likely to be very cost-effective. There is also access to the gantry in the upper west and more security needed in the car park.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
You could argue that a lot of rich people don't become rich by wasting money. And having an entire stand for 3k+ people open when the away team brings 300 probably falls in the category of wasting money.Valley11 said:This doesn’t smack of rich owners, does it?
All a bit weird. The timing is strange too when the team is doing so well.
As i've said earlier though, for me personally i'd rather keep the away end open.
@Airman Brown could probably advise us on what the rough savings would be.
Like I said above, it’s tinkering, just like closing blocks in AC Stand which serves no real purpose.9 -
Who was this email/letter (?) sent to ? Just fans who it might by affect ?0
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Absolutely. I actaully quite like that there aren't too many other fans around up there! It has been more popular recently and if it starts getting busier around me then thats fine with me too. I've sat there since 1998 and I quite like moving to a different area of the ground for some games. Sitting near the home dugout or the tunnel is fun on the occasions I have decided to move or for cup games but I always like going back up to West Upper block P!Markg2004 said:
Everyone will have their reasons and many won't agree on why and just accept people should move regardless.killerandflash said:I've often wondered why people get season tickets in that part of the Upper West. I understand not wanting to be in a crowded area, but it's SO empty up there
After years of match-by-match tickets I got my first season ticket in the West Upper with Grandparents. They didn't follow football much but wanted to spend time with me, it was where they wanted to sit whilst taking me, a youngster. I have then only had a season-ticket there even though they are not with us anymore. I have sat all around the ground but that is where we sat, and I still do. I follow the same football rituals we did when I was going match by match and with a season-ticket with them. I do them now with my oldest.
Sometimes people have reasons and it doesn't bother us that is is 'boring' or 'SO empty'. We do things we want to do for our own reasons.
For what it is worth, I probably will renew in the same seats I've always had in the West Upper. I will see what the club propose and see how it works if it works. I get the reasoning and want The Valley to hold a great atmosphere. I'm not against moving necessarily and appreciate they have reached out before renewing but you cant be sure of everything and just accept it.
Saying all of the above, this season we've had an increase in free tickets around us and those that attend under those incentives don't always care about the football. A few times we've had seat slamming all the way through and shouting for another team (not even the team we are playing) so it hasn't been as it used to be and affected the enjoyment of the match. This could be the kick needed to move, potentially.
And after I posted the above, I feel like @se9addick posted as well.2 -
First i should say i dont get there much, hut it is a. Spiritual home for me.
So for once so many of us fans are positive, this happens about twice in a generation.
This site even has the vast majority believing in NJ and potential promotion.
Everyone said last game at home the place is buzzing.
We are all as one on this journey.
Apart from comms and smt.
Let's be honest this isn't about how can we reclaim the JS stand. It's saving a few bob.
This suggestion is only relevant if we are in league 1 in my opinion and on a downward trajectory.
And sounds like the exec thinks that's where we are and will be.
Might have sounded reasonable few months ago.
Now, timing absolutely 1stinks. In fact its a bit weird. What are they thinking?
It's a no from me.
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No from me.Next they cut one of the arms off the football shirts to save a few bob0
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Well, that'll give us a new chant:paulbaconsarnie said:
Hotel Ducheteletsam3110 said:
As I said earlier the longer term plan may well be to remodel the JS stand, it's the easiest of the 4 sides to rebuild and will have scope to add corporate boxes (something we severely lack compared to many modern stadiums)Stig said:
I'm not seeing any link here. Why might it mean better facilities in the JS?sam3110 said:Fuck the away fans, as I said before if long term it means better facilities in the JS and fans behind both goals then I'm all for it. I personally would give away fans the end 2 blocks Upper and Lower of the the West Stand, and if they aren't selling many, just the upper
If anyone here has ever been to the BayArena, I can see a similar structure to that being built at that end.
Welcome to the Hotel Du-chat-elay
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
when Godden’s scored a brace
Plenty of room at the Hotel Du-chat-elay
Any time of year (any time of year)
the owner won’t be here!0 -
Money dear boy, money.valleynick66 said:
Waste what waste?Redrobo said:I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand.
The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.0 -
If they are that skint they need to shut the away stand then we are deeper trouble than we think we are .First charltonTv then the Jimmy Seed. Be charging for the toilets next1
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It all seems a silly idea. Extremely silly even.1
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So you may be, say, an Accrington Stanley fan excited by following your team down to the Valley for a Tuesday night game in November.
You know there might be eighty fellow Stanley fans with you.
What do you want?To experience the iconic Valley you know Charlton fans love.
You want to be behind the goal to clap your team onto the pitch, and get clapped back, and to be thanked after the game, a few steps to tumble down if you score and provide excited faces for your goalscorer to celebrate with. A place to hang your flags and colours.
Not be isolated a long way away.
It is disrespectful to the away fans not to afford them the proper away experience even if they are low in numbers.
I remember we thrashed Crawley at home in a silly buggers cup game, but they had a gaggle of passionate fans who kept singing and enhanced the experience.
Wasn’t there an Italian game where the away team had one single fan in the away end?
Totally cool and memorable.10 -
I'm one of those ST holders affected. My seats have a great view and whilst not rammed its still busy'ish on Saturday matchdays. I was set on renewing but this is making me reconsider. I'll renew if I'm able to relocate at the same price to another part of the West Upper (maybe nearer to the NW quadrant).
As goes the Jimmy Seed stand. I would love to see / hear Home fans in there. I really displike the idea of playing matches in a 3-sided ground however infrequently. Maybe the JS stand is a good place to relocate the 16-20 "Youth" section and also to offer slightly cheaper Adult home tickets to grow home attendances. Would really like to see safe standing for home fans installed in that part of the ground (but appreciate that the Clubs non ownership of the ground is a factor discouraging that happening).
Basically, I won't be happy if forced to decamp from my West Upper seat every so often and it will make me reconsider renewing.
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exactly - a hoo ha from some about nothingRedrobo said:
Money dear boy, money.valleynick66 said:
Waste what waste?Redrobo said:I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand.
The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.0 -
did the 16-20 section ever actually happen? did anybody actually sit there?tallboy said:I'm one of those ST holders affected. My seats have a great view and whilst not rammed its still busy'ish on Saturday matchdays. I was set on renewing but this is making me reconsider. I'll renew if I'm able to relocate at the same price to another part of the West Upper (maybe nearer to the NW quadrant).
As goes the Jimmy Seed stand. I would love to see / hear Home fans in there. I really displike the idea of playing matches in a 3-sided ground however infrequently. Maybe the JS stand is a good place to relocate the 16-20 "Youth" section and also to offer slightly cheaper Adult home tickets to grow home attendances. Would really like to see safe standing for home fans installed in that part of the ground (but appreciate that the Clubs non ownership of the ground is a factor discouraging that happening).
Basically, I won't be happy if forced to decamp from my West Upper seat every so often and it will make me reconsider renewing.
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Their season ticket wouldn't cover cup games, so there isn't any 'relocation' involved. Sure they might be annoyed that they can't buy their season ticket seat, but that wouldn't be anything new to them.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
This made me think that for fans at big clubs like Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc who have a ST near the away fans, if the game is then sold out in home areas for a big FA Cup game when the away team get a huge allocation, they must then lose their seat completely.se9addick said:
This is irrational, but fans (particularly relatively hardcore, ST owning fans) of football teams are irrational by nature. There’s nothing rational about our love for a professional sports organisation…Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Given this would probably only be done for teams like Crawley, Burton, Stevenage etc who bring 200 fans and would be the west stand block(s) nearest the JS stand, how many home fans would this impact?clive said:
If current Upper-West season ticket holders are unhappy with this idea & potentially don't renew for next season the club could lose income rather than save money.ElfsborgAddick said:
My old season ticket was in the section they'd want to pass over to the away fans.clive said:
YesChris_from_Sidcup said:Is the intention to stick away fans from smaller clubs in the west stand, so that the JS can be closed? Or so that we can put home fans in the JS?
If it's to totally close the JS then i think it's a bit shit. I'd rather see 200 Crawley fans in the away end than have a totally empty stand.
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Stand and temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
I'd not be pleased being moved on 'x' occasions.
It would also be a nightmare for the ticket office sorting this successfully.
When they did this for the Bournemouth game there was loads of problems.
I ended up getting hospitality for the Rotherham home game the following season as an apology.
There can't be too many fans who have a ST there? And if your ST is there then why, aren't you lonely stuck over there?
…so with that prelude over, even though I know it’s irrational, I would be annoyed if I got moved out of my long held ST seat even if for a couple of games a season to accommodate away fans. There’s something about the emotional attachment of having a spot in the stadium that feels like yours. The people around you, the view, the route to my seat - all of it connects me to something really important.The goodwill of the fans of this club, after the decade+ of dross that we’ve had to endure is nothing short of extraordinary and we underestimate it at our peril.
Seems a bit harsh, but i guess they are made aware of that when buying.1 -
There is though, it may not be a financial matter but people still get psychologically attached to 'their' seats. I was at the Under 21 game on Tuesday, sat (as was everyone else) in the Directors Box. I still had a little moment, looking up at 'my' seat in the North Upper, thinking how nice it would be to watch the match from there - even though the only padding on my seat is the cellulite which I always bring with meCAFCTrev said:
Their season ticket wouldn't cover cup games, so there isn't any 'relocation' involved. Sure they might be annoyed that they can't buy their season ticket seat, but that wouldn't be anything new to them.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
This made me think that for fans at big clubs like Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal etc who have a ST near the away fans, if the game is then sold out in home areas for a big FA Cup game when the away team get a huge allocation, they must then lose their seat completely.se9addick said:
This is irrational, but fans (particularly relatively hardcore, ST owning fans) of football teams are irrational by nature. There’s nothing rational about our love for a professional sports organisation…Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Given this would probably only be done for teams like Crawley, Burton, Stevenage etc who bring 200 fans and would be the west stand block(s) nearest the JS stand, how many home fans would this impact?clive said:
If current Upper-West season ticket holders are unhappy with this idea & potentially don't renew for next season the club could lose income rather than save money.ElfsborgAddick said:
My old season ticket was in the section they'd want to pass over to the away fans.clive said:
YesChris_from_Sidcup said:Is the intention to stick away fans from smaller clubs in the west stand, so that the JS can be closed? Or so that we can put home fans in the JS?
If it's to totally close the JS then i think it's a bit shit. I'd rather see 200 Crawley fans in the away end than have a totally empty stand.
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Stand and temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
I'd not be pleased being moved on 'x' occasions.
It would also be a nightmare for the ticket office sorting this successfully.
When they did this for the Bournemouth game there was loads of problems.
I ended up getting hospitality for the Rotherham home game the following season as an apology.
There can't be too many fans who have a ST there? And if your ST is there then why, aren't you lonely stuck over there?
…so with that prelude over, even though I know it’s irrational, I would be annoyed if I got moved out of my long held ST seat even if for a couple of games a season to accommodate away fans. There’s something about the emotional attachment of having a spot in the stadium that feels like yours. The people around you, the view, the route to my seat - all of it connects me to something really important.The goodwill of the fans of this club, after the decade+ of dross that we’ve had to endure is nothing short of extraordinary and we underestimate it at our peril.
Seems a bit harsh, but i guess they are made aware of that when buying.
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I was one of those that used to sit in the JS for most matches I went to in the first season back. It was where you tended to end up if you laid on the day. Having sampled about half the away ends in the country over the years, I think it's one of the best anywhere. Good view, good atmosphere. If this experiment was to turn into a longer-term plan to have home fans in the JS and away in a corner of the West I wouldn't have a problem with that. Let's see how it goes. But looking after away fans well is a positive for the club - we bring more money in if more away fans turn up and it adds to the atmosphere in the games. So unless we can actually fill it as a second home end I'm not sure it would be a benefit overall.0
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I am not sure what you would learn from a trial that you can’t deduce from a desktop exercise if it’s about money. You don’t need to do it to understand the costs.Redrobo said:
Money dear boy, money.valleynick66 said:
Waste what waste?Redrobo said:I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand.
The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.4 -
It is a trial not a decision.tallboy said:I'm one of those ST holders affected. My seats have a great view and whilst not rammed its still busy'ish on Saturday matchdays. I was set on renewing but this is making me reconsider. I'll renew if I'm able to relocate at the same price to another part of the West Upper (maybe nearer to the NW quadrant).
As goes the Jimmy Seed stand. I would love to see / hear Home fans in there. I really displike the idea of playing matches in a 3-sided ground however infrequently. Maybe the JS stand is a good place to relocate the 16-20 "Youth" section and also to offer slightly cheaper Adult home tickets to grow home attendances. Would really like to see safe standing for home fans installed in that part of the ground (but appreciate that the Clubs non ownership of the ground is a factor discouraging that happening).
Basically, I won't be happy if forced to decamp from my West Upper seat every so often and it will make me reconsider renewing.
The letter to affected fans includes an invitation and a telephone number for those who wish to discuss how it affects them and it maybe a good idea to give them a call and explain your concerns.0
