Fuck the away fans, as I said before if long term it means better facilities in the JS and fans behind both goals then I'm all for it. I personally would give away fans the end 2 blocks Upper and Lower of the the West Stand, and if they aren't selling many, just the upper
I'm not seeing any link here. Why might it mean better facilities in the JS?
As I said earlier the longer term plan may well be to remodel the JS stand, it's the easiest of the 4 sides to rebuild and will have scope to add corporate boxes (something we severely lack compared to many modern stadiums)
If anyone here has ever been to the BayArena, I can see a similar structure to that being built at that end.
I'm one of those ST holders affected. My seats have a great view and whilst not rammed its still busy'ish on Saturday matchdays. I was set on renewing but this is making me reconsider. I'll renew if I'm able to relocate at the same price to another part of the West Upper (maybe nearer to the NW quadrant).
As goes the Jimmy Seed stand. I would love to see / hear Home fans in there. I really displike the idea of playing matches in a 3-sided ground however infrequently. Maybe the JS stand is a good place to relocate the 16-20 "Youth" section and also to offer slightly cheaper Adult home tickets to grow home attendances. Would really like to see safe standing for home fans installed in that part of the ground (but appreciate that the Clubs non ownership of the ground is a factor discouraging that happening).
Basically, I won't be happy if forced to decamp from my West Upper seat every so often and it will make me reconsider renewing.
did the 16-20 section ever actually happen? did anybody actually sit there?
Yes, although as far as I'm aware no existing ST holder was relocated. There's been a few younger people dotted around the quadrant - possibly University of Greenwich students on a special deal? - but really not very many at all. That said, numbers the picked up for the Wigan match, but then the numbers picked up everywhere!
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
Is the intention to stick away fans from smaller clubs in the west stand, so that the JS can be closed? Or so that we can put home fans in the JS?
If it's to totally close the JS then i think it's a bit shit. I'd rather see 200 Crawley fans in the away end than have a totally empty stand.
Yes
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Stand and temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
Yes but only when we play the minnows I think is what it’s saying - makes sense to me
Why would you want to see an empty stand ?
It means you move a few home supporters to accommodate a few away supporters to save a few quid.
It’s nonsense. A true lose lose scenario.
Not bothered for a few games really tbh and if it gives us flexibility to use the JS as well or give an extra area for away fans if they can sell extra then it makes sense - bothers me more seeing half full east and west stands
That’s isn’t the suggestion.
The stand will be fully closed.
No it doesn’t say that, it talks about home fans in there possibly - you’ve assumed it will be shut
No it says:
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Standand temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
Yes but I think that relates to the temporary trials as it goes on to talk about maybe putting home fans in there
Not for a while. So why bother?
No trial is really needed. It’s money saving at best.
If you want to move there you will be in a small minority. .
I'm one of those ST holders affected. My seats have a great view and whilst not rammed its still busy'ish on Saturday matchdays. I was set on renewing but this is making me reconsider. I'll renew if I'm able to relocate at the same price to another part of the West Upper (maybe nearer to the NW quadrant).
As goes the Jimmy Seed stand. I would love to see / hear Home fans in there. I really displike the idea of playing matches in a 3-sided ground however infrequently. Maybe the JS stand is a good place to relocate the 16-20 "Youth" section and also to offer slightly cheaper Adult home tickets to grow home attendances. Would really like to see safe standing for home fans installed in that part of the ground (but appreciate that the Clubs non ownership of the ground is a factor discouraging that happening).
Basically, I won't be happy if forced to decamp from my West Upper seat every so often and it will make me reconsider renewing.
It is a trial not a decision. The letter to affected fans includes an invitation and a telephone number for those who wish to discuss how it affects them and it maybe a good idea to give them a call and explain your concerns.
I've already responded to CAFC with the above points. Im not willing to pay for a seat that is available/unavailable. I'm waiting to get confirmation that I can relocate to seats in Upper West J. K or L sections at the same cost before renewing.
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
Relative peanuts and a complete loss of goodwill from away fans and the few displaced home fans. It will lose in the short medium and long term.
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
Is the intention to stick away fans from smaller clubs in the west stand, so that the JS can be closed? Or so that we can put home fans in the JS?
If it's to totally close the JS then i think it's a bit shit. I'd rather see 200 Crawley fans in the away end than have a totally empty stand.
Yes
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Stand and temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
Yes but only when we play the minnows I think is what it’s saying - makes sense to me
Why would you want to see an empty stand ?
It means you move a few home supporters to accommodate a few away supporters to save a few quid.
It’s nonsense. A true lose lose scenario.
Not bothered for a few games really tbh and if it gives us flexibility to use the JS as well or give an extra area for away fans if they can sell extra then it makes sense - bothers me more seeing half full east and west stands
That’s isn’t the suggestion.
The stand will be fully closed.
No it doesn’t say that, it talks about home fans in there possibly - you’ve assumed it will be shut
No it says:
For a few games next season against clubs with smaller away support, we may close the Jimmy Seed Standand temporarily place away fans in the south end of the West Stand Upper.
Yes but I think that relates to the temporary trials as it goes on to talk about maybe putting home fans in there
Not for a while. So why bother?
No trial is really needed. It’s money saving at best.
If you want to move there you will be in a small minority. .
"and this might be something that we consider in the future as the club progresses - though of course no major steps will be taken without significant consultation and the input for the Charlton Advisory Board." Maybe the CAB could point out that it seems to be a cost saving exercise!
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
I am not sure what you would learn from a trial that you can’t deduce from a desktop exercise if it’s about money. You don’t need to do it to understand the costs.
I think the 'trial' aspect of this is really about throwing the announcement out there, and seeing what the backlash is from the fan base, if any. The impact of that isn't something you can calculate to a high degree of accuracy beforehand.
Fuck the away fans, as I said before if long term it means better facilities in the JS and fans behind both goals then I'm all for it. I personally would give away fans the end 2 blocks Upper and Lower of the the West Stand, and if they aren't selling many, just the upper
I'm not seeing any link here. Why might it mean better facilities in the JS?
As I said earlier the longer term plan may well be to remodel the JS stand, it's the easiest of the 4 sides to rebuild and will have scope to add corporate boxes (something we severely lack compared to many modern stadiums)
If anyone here has ever been to the BayArena, I can see a similar structure to that being built at that end.
Hope not. That looks awful
A long way from that happening, we'd have to have a sustained period in the top league before having ideas of this.
We cannot sell boxes along the side, let alone behind the goal.
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
I am not sure what you would learn from a trial that you can’t deduce from a desktop exercise if it’s about money. You don’t need to do it to understand the costs.
I think the 'trial' aspect of this is really about throwing the announcement out there, and seeing what the backlash is from the fan base, if any. The impact of that isn't something you can calculate to a high degree of accuracy beforehand.
Pretty inept way of gauging “customer” response, if so. But with the dubious benefit of being “free”.
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
I am not sure what you would learn from a trial that you can’t deduce from a desktop exercise if it’s about money. You don’t need to do it to understand the costs.
I think the 'trial' aspect of this is really about throwing the announcement out there, and seeing what the backlash is from the fan base, if any. The impact of that isn't something you can calculate to a high degree of accuracy beforehand.
That’s not believable either.
We have a fans forum (or whatever it’s called), CAST etc etc and any number of measured ways of getting feedback.
There is no surprise in the reaction on here instantly seeing it for what it is.
Or maybe the surprise is those happy with it because they haven’t read it properly and think we have demand in this League or even the Championship to sell that end to home supporters.
It could only make sense for one off games such as a play off semi final when we suddenly have excess demand.
I assume a significant steward presence would be needed for any away fans in the Upper West, plus they would presumably tape off the front rows to keep away fans a distance from the media areas and not be above home fans.
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
I am not sure what you would learn from a trial that you can’t deduce from a desktop exercise if it’s about money. You don’t need to do it to understand the costs.
I’m not stupid and I don’t think the Club are either. You do the desktop as you call it looking at all the benefits and the associated costs and decide if it is worth pursuing. You would like to think you have covered everything and the theory stacks up. At some point you would then want to trial it to see if you have missed anything, ground safety, staff safety, reaction of the fans shunted out of their seats, etc etc, and then decide if is worth it and under what conditions. Costs can change quickly. More stewards needed, fans don’t want the seats offered and want an upgrade or refund. If they didn’t think it worthwhile it would not have got to a trial.
I have been supporting Charlton for over sixty years and I never knew that the JS stand was the home end. No wonder I kept getting beaten up.
I've been going since 1965 and it's never been the 'home end.'
Well it’s where my season ticket was for the first season in the Prem.
Maybe I went every week to support the other teams then 🤷♂️
98/99 was first season in the Premier.
Because the Upper West wasn't finished the home fans were accommodated the JS stand for one game only, I was there, (sound like Max Boyce boyo).
2000/01 my season ticket was in the Seed. I think the West Ham game in 2001 (a 4 4 draw?) was the first game the Covered End upper tier was open and we left the Seed behind for good, or so we thought....
I can’t see the argument against cutting waste and inefficiency and applaud the sense in testing the theory of having fans in that area.
Early rounds of Cup games seem an obvious time for instance.
If we can iron out issues who knows when the ability to utilise this area would be advantageous. When we have sold out the South stand for instance. For me we just get on with the testing and await the results.
Waste what waste?
Money dear boy, money. I think one can reasonably conclude that the purpose of such an exercise is to test the theory that when an away Club are expected to bring only a few fans you can relocate them to the West Stand, which will ultimately save money by not opening the JS stand. The trial may not be successful, but no harm in finding out.
I am not sure what you would learn from a trial that you can’t deduce from a desktop exercise if it’s about money. You don’t need to do it to understand the costs.
I’m not stupid and I don’t think the Club are either. You do the desktop as you call it looking at all the benefits and the associated costs and decide if it is worth pursuing. You would like to think you have covered everything and the theory stacks up. At some point you would then want to trial it to see if you have missed anything, ground safety, staff safety, reaction of the fans shunted out of their seats, etc etc, and then decide if is worth it and under what conditions. Costs can change quickly. More stewards needed, fans don’t want the seats offered and want an upgrade or refund. If they didn’t think it worthwhile it would not have got to a trial.
I think you have too much faith in the way the management make decisions. Safety isn’t decided on the day either. It has to be agreed by the SAG, which means the police. If they don’t agree it doesn’t happen.
This would have made most sense when League One had some really small teams in this division. A couple years back we were playing Forest Green, Morecambe, Accrington & Fleetwood & Burton. All those probably bought less than 200 each. Think every club has brought at least 500+ this season so probably already too many for the upper west section.
Fuck the away fans, as I said before if long term it means better facilities in the JS and fans behind both goals then I'm all for it. I personally would give away fans the end 2 blocks Upper and Lower of the the West Stand, and if they aren't selling many, just the upper
I'm not seeing any link here. Why might it mean better facilities in the JS?
As I said earlier the longer term plan may well be to remodel the JS stand, it's the easiest of the 4 sides to rebuild and will have scope to add corporate boxes (something we severely lack compared to many modern stadiums)
If anyone here has ever been to the BayArena, I can see a similar structure to that being built at that end.
Comments
No trial is really needed. It’s money saving at best.
TFL are an example of having a consultation but have already make a decision.
Just as things going well in the club come up with a stupid idea that will get some/ many fans pissed off, only at Charlton!
Which all eats into the savings.
At some point you would then want to trial it to see if you have missed anything, ground safety, staff safety, reaction of the fans shunted out of their seats, etc etc, and then decide if is worth it and under what conditions. Costs can change quickly. More stewards needed, fans don’t want the seats offered and want an upgrade or refund.
If they didn’t think it worthwhile it would not have got to a trial.
Because the Upper West wasn't finished the home fans were accommodated the JS stand for one game only, I was there, (sound like Max Boyce boyo).