General Election 2015 official thread

Fiiish said:

MrOneLung said:

Well I for one have enjoyed the verbal jousting ( can you even do that online?) between Fiish ShootersHill et al even when some of the brickbats and responses have been let's say robust. Have learnt a lot on this thread mainly due to both sides producing actual statistics and linking to articles to back up their claims and counterclaims. On such an emotive subject once the results were in emotions were gonna be running high but I say bring on the GENERAL ELECTION 2020 thread.

Don't get me wrong I'm not bowing out of the thread, I'm just refusing to engage with the 4 or 5 trolls whose only contribution so far to this thread is finding ways of comparing me to a phallus.

I've been doing that for twenty years.

Thoroughly enjoyed your input in this thread and kind of proud In the way you've fought your corner.

The highlight of the night was Nina Hossein

ShootersHillGuru said:

Enjoyed being called a troll. A first I think. Anyway. To leave the EU would be madness. The world is now all about trading blocks. America (USA) South America, China, India, The Far East. Europe.

Don't quote Norway or bloody Switzerland at me. It's like comparing the Corner shop to Harrods.

We must stay in otherwise in 50 years we will be bloody Norway.

Norway, but without the sovereign wealth fund as well. I'll accept that the electorate has spoken and they want the Conservatives in government, but I hope that if we do go to the polls on Europe, we stay.

My first argument is business and the economy. The economy has been a focal point of why the Tories are back in, and business leaders have thrown their weight behind the Tories being the party to continue the recovery. Business for the most part is also behind Britain in Europe. I'm not his biggest fan as he sits in his tax exile thunderbird island, but the likes of Richard Branson advocate staying in. For me he epitomises the successful businessman, the Entreprenuer and Wealth Creation that is central to Tory party policy. We would jeopardise this if we left.

The EU has worked hard to broker trade agreements with other economic blocks, us with them as part of that block is stronger than us alone, trying to establish such agreements. The EU import a greater number of goods and services from the UK than any other part of the world as I understand it.

Business was very worried about what would've happened had Scotland left the Union. You can multiply that a hundred fold if we wanted out of the EU. Most business commentators spoke of the gridlock in terms of commerce around the time of the Scottish referendum for fear of uncertainty over the period of campaigning. Potentially, the in/out EU campaign could take a lot longer, leaving us open to a longer period of uncertainty and the knock on effects.

Everyone's favourite 'but the Poles come over and take all our jobs'. Yes I'll agree we need a controlled level of immigration and the freedom of EU workers takes that out our hand somewhat, but it has been estimated that we could suffer a £60b hit to our economy by 2050 if we did opt out. Some serious talent comes to our shores from Europe and although we have made some strides in improving our schooling system in STEM (science technology engineering manufacturing) talent for the next generation, we're not there yet. I don't know much about a lot of things but in my job it's an HR related business development consultancy. We engage with senior HR Directors and they have it right up their backside from their CEOs to attract and retain top talent and ensure talent pipelines guarantee company performance and competitiveness. Those companies are BRITISH. If those companies have the right talent they perform well, the British economy benefits.

Finally, and this is a personal viewpoint. We are far too tribal for the world we live in and the resources we have. We don't have a lot of natural resources left and what we do have, we need to collaborate and work together on. For me an exit from the EU would be like us saying a big 'fuck you' to the rest of the world and stating we'll take care of ourselves. We might not find that that easy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as proud to be English as I am proud to support Charlton, but I firmly believe we are 'better together'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32649529

I wish Parliament was filled with 650 Caroline Lucas clones.

Arise Sir Lynton Crosby...

The man whose face you rarely see who sold the British people two useless toffs in one decade.

Materialism and fear, the bedrock of English politics. God help us all.

Callumcafc said:

Cameron planning to repeal the fox hunting ban...............

He loves the blood of innocent, sentient beings on his hands, his father-in-law loves to host hunts. Both, in my eyes, are twats.

se9addick said:

Has Cameron ever clarified exactly what it is he wants to negotiate with the EU on ? I keep hearing "a fairer deal for Britain" - what exactly does that mean ?

Whatever he wants it to mean. I genuinely doubt we will see a referendum in this parliament (and hope we don't). Cameron's off before the next election anyway so whoever takes over just plays the Blame Dave card.

se9addick said:

Callumcafc said:

Cameron planning to repeal the fox hunting ban...............

He can't do it unilaterally can he ? Surely it would need for the Act which made it illegal in the first place to be repealed by parliament ?

Cameron wrote in the Countryside Alliance magazine: “The Hunting Act has done nothing for animal welfare. A Conservative government will give parliament the opportunity to repeal the Hunting Act on a free vote, with a government bill in government time.”

Callumcafc said:

Cameron planning to repeal the fox hunting ban...............

Callum - what is your source for this statement, only I cant find any recent announcements on the matter?

EastTerrace said:

Just been reading the BBC page on why the Polls got is so wrong.

As on here, shy Conservatives were mentioned.
It's a possibility, but if so, they why are they shy?

My own view it that maybe Labour voters feel more that they are doing it for social reasons and like announce this whereas more Tories maybe do it for personal reasons and don't?

My own view on this is that "Shy Tories" is a misnomer.

The fact is that pollsters don't do their job for fun or love: they do it because it makes them a lot of money.

Data are very valuable and provide a whole industry with large profits.

My stance is that if a large institution asked me to go and work for them I'd want paying, I'd also want paying for handing over my valuable personal information. That's why I (sort of) accept the idea of Sainsbury's giving me Nectar points in exchange for all the useful shopping info they collect about me.

So, if anyone rings up (as they fairly frequently seem to) and says they are conducting a survey or poll and it will only take a few minutes. My response is usually: "Data have a value to you, how much of it are you sharing with me?" They never want to pay of course, so I tell them to swivel on it. Or if I'm feeling vindictive, I tell them a porkie to screw up their figures.

In summary, I don't think shyness has anything to do with it - it's just that people get pissed off with tossers asking them questions.

Yes, saw that pre election discussion regarding a free vote.
So if it happens, and I am dead against it personally, it will be truly a democratic decision with no party whip. (Scuse the pun)
I thought Callum was raising it now as some kind of post election announcement.

A-R-T-H-U-R said:

Bournemouth Addick said:

se9addick said:

Has Cameron ever clarified exactly what it is he wants to negotiate with the EU on ? I keep hearing "a fairer deal for Britain" - what exactly does that mean ?

Whatever he wants it to mean. I genuinely doubt we will see a referendum in this parliament (and hope we don't). Cameron's off before the next election anyway so whoever takes over just plays the Blame Dave card.

Why don't you think the referendum will happen in 2017, only
the Guardian today, along with the rest of the press seem pretty certain its a major issue for the new Government.

Because I don't believe he will get the concessions required to guarantee an 'In' vote from the EU. In the absence of this he knows that the public are way too susceptible to the sort of populist nonsense about immigrants being responsible for all societies ills to be trusted with a vote that would ruin our country for generations. Politically, he's broken "cast iron " promises before yet just been voted back in with a majority so that won't worry them.

It will be THE defining issue for this government.

Bournemouth Addick said:

A-R-T-H-U-R said:

Bournemouth Addick said:

se9addick said:

Has Cameron ever clarified exactly what it is he wants to negotiate with the EU on ? I keep hearing "a fairer deal for Britain" - what exactly does that mean ?

Whatever he wants it to mean. I genuinely doubt we will see a referendum in this parliament (and hope we don't). Cameron's off before the next election anyway so whoever takes over just plays the Blame Dave card.

Why don't you think the referendum will happen in 2017, only
the Guardian today, along with the rest of the press seem pretty certain its a major issue for the new Government.

It will be THE defining issue for this government.

So not the NHS now?