The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
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agreed. Thanks for your input, much appreciated.Davidsmith said:
Correct, but then they reduce their bid for Roland's share by £7mn, and there is the problem, is their bid then large enough to keep Roland happy?LargeAddick said:
but the buyer doesn't have to negotiate with the ex-directors if he pays them back what they are owedDavidsmith said:
I suspect rejected on basis someone needs to sort out £7mn Loans and Roland doesn't want to ,so stalling that bid in order to find a deal he likes better.Trouble is any future DD will throw up same problem ,unless he can find a buyer who is happy to leave those Loans with Charges in place.LargeAddick said:
although Roland may not have accepted it conversely do you know if he has rejected it or is it just sitting on the table?Davidsmith said:Muir versus Muir is whats is happening. One Muir the Australian has done DD and made his bid ,Roland has not excepted ,Muir No.2 now doing DD to work out his bid. While Muir No 1 sits back and waits believing his bid will not be topped.
Its a game of Poker with our Club, who folds first.
He has been trying to sell for a long time,his price is too high and he has no security against his Loans,and I am guessing that as of yet he has not been willing to take a loss.
Muir No 2 has a history of restructuring and will understand that Ex Directors Loans are the most valuable and he has to deal with that and then find a way to restructure Rolands debt and pay him some now and maybe some in future based on performance of Club.
It is a complex problem with 8 people to negotiate with, or 1 if buyer accepts that he has not got First Charge on assets.
Anybody looking to use any finance to buy the Club or Lease Land or Buildings owned by the Club will want those Loans gone, this is Roland's biggest error ,not clearing them when he bought the Club.
He has about 16 days realistically to 26th January to sell in this window,otherwise buyers may as well wait until summer, gambling that he will be in more debt and probably still in Division 1.
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Gonna be waiting a while for this Muir to takeover the club then!!newyorkaddick said:Here is the full list of people currently undertaking due diligence at the club:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muir_(surname)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Muir_of_Huntershill0 -
It is astonishing that football club owners expect to be made whole on their 'investment' - if I bought the equity of a listed company which delivered four consecutive years of losses and had no medium-term prospect of delivering any profits/cashflow, would I expect to be able to sell it back in the market at the same price I bought it at?20
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This 100%newyorkaddick said:It is astonishing that football club owners expect to be made whole on their 'investment' - if I bought the equity of a listed company which delivered four consecutive years of losses and had no medium-term prospect of delivering any profits/cashflow, would I expect to be able to sell it back in the market at the same price I bought it at?
Add to the fact that the only way to make a football club profitable is the outside chance of reaching and staying in the Premiership
These are successful businessman. They must know this. You buy them at your peril0 -
My point being, RD is loaded, the richest owner we’ve ever had, but it did zilch for us, all the money in the world does not guarantee success if they are the wrong people, making the wrong decisions.killerandflash said:
The world of football has changed a lot in 20 years though, back in the 90s there were virtually no foreign owners, and the second tier was run on a much more sensible financial footing.DA9 said:
I disagree, the owners who took us to the Premier league were not minted in today’s terms.nth london addick said:From No one and no where is there evidence that Muir and McLeish have the 50 mil that Roland wants to sell the club , from what I heard they are the front for others and just looking at the state of play, on the pitch and what the main issues are off it
It’s all part of being diligent
The biggest problem now is that unless the buyers are super minted or Refbull they ain’t going to be good enough
What we need is caring, sensible football people with good business sense, willing to invest wisely and cost effectively.
Buying success is one thing, long term stability and growth better IMO.
Now the Championship is a financial disaster zone, as owners desperately try to chase promotion.28 -
a hell of a lot of information in that Votv link...17
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Rod Stewart back row with a tinny.killerandflash said:
More people in the Director's box than in the rest of the stadium!craigcafc said:Mark McGhee there with McLeish tonight as well by the looks of things...
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ThisDA9 said:
My point being, RD is loaded, the richest owner we’ve ever had, but it did zilch for us, all the money in the world does not guarantee success if they are the wrong people, making the wrong decisions.killerandflash said:
The world of football has changed a lot in 20 years though, back in the 90s there were virtually no foreign owners, and the second tier was run on a much more sensible financial footing.DA9 said:
I disagree, the owners who took us to the Premier league were not minted in today’s terms.nth london addick said:From No one and no where is there evidence that Muir and McLeish have the 50 mil that Roland wants to sell the club , from what I heard they are the front for others and just looking at the state of play, on the pitch and what the main issues are off it
It’s all part of being diligent
The biggest problem now is that unless the buyers are super minted or Refbull they ain’t going to be good enough
What we need is caring, sensible football people with good business sense, willing to invest wisely and cost effectively.
Buying success is one thing, long term stability and growth better IMO.
Now the Championship is a financial disaster zone, as owners desperately try to chase promotion.2 -
Another analogy.newyorkaddick said:It is astonishing that football club owners expect to be made whole on their 'investment' - if I bought the equity of a listed company which delivered four consecutive years of losses and had no medium-term prospect of delivering any profits/cashflow, would I expect to be able to sell it back in the market at the same price I bought it at?
If I bought a house in a good state of repair in a nice part of town, picked it up and moved it to a much rougher neighborhood and let it fall to rack and ruin should I expect to get back what I payed for it when I put it back on the market?1 - Sponsored links:
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Still on his CV as a promotion regardless, like KR, proves with the right backing he can do a job.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
He is terrible.Henry Irving said:
McLeish won the treble at Rangers, won the league twice (despite the financial melt-down at Ibrox, got Birmingham promoted and won the league cup with them.SDAddick said:
But surely we should try for a standard higher than that?Henry Irving said:
Wouldn't it make more sense for an Arab or South African buyer to use Brits to review a British purchase?Davo55 said:
Simply that if I was an Australian or Arab money man I think I would be most unlikely to commission these two gentleman to run their eye over the club for me. If I was a British/Scottish money man it might be a different view.Henry Irving said:
Why not?Davo55 said:
But why would potential buyers use McLeish/Muir for that? Without disrespect to either, it seems an odd choice.nth london addick said:From No one and no where is there evidence that Muir and McLeish have the 50 mil that Roland wants to sell the club , from what I heard they are the front for others and just looking at the state of play, on the pitch and what the main issues are off it
It’s all part of being diligent
The biggest problem now is that unless the buyers are super minted or Refbull they ain’t going to be good enough
D. Muir is an international finance person. If they asked him to find a football person to have a look at the club it makes sense that he'd ask his life long friend and international football manager Alex McLeish who has won trophies in Scotland and England as a manager and was part of the very successful Aberdeen side of the 70s and 80s as a player under Fergie. I don't see it as an add choice at all. He's got a more impressive CV than any Charlton manager under Roland (including SCP).
OR maybe we've got this all the wrong way round. Maybe Muir and McLeish see the potential in Charlton, think it can be turned around (Muir's area of expertise) and so are putting together a prospectus to present to financial big hitters that they can access via D Muir. Maybe there are no buyers behind M & M yet.
As I wrote when Duchatelet took over the Chinese word for change is made up of two other Chinese words "opportunity" and "risk".
Four years on we are back at the same point again.
If any of us where buying a house in France would we speak to our local estate agent or find a French agency? Which would we trust to know more about the local rules, market, issues, etc?
I don't know what all the connections are or who is with who doing what.
I do think McLeish and D Muir are a huge step up from Fraeye, Driesen and Meire.
It's noteworthy that I haven't seen anyone in football say anything positive about Muir. And McLeish was a terrible manager (who managed Bowyer at Birmingham I believe).
I don't think he's a great manager nor would I want him as Charlton boss but lets not pretend that he was "terrible" as the record proves that wrong.
His treble winning Rangers side had Ricksen, Numan and Amoruso at the back, Ronald de boer, Arteta and Barry Ferguson in midfield, and going forward had Mols, Lovenkrands, Caniggia and Arveladze. Russell Slade could've won trophies with that lot.
Yes he got Birmingham promoted.........after he got them relegated. And yes he won the league cup (which to be fair was an amazing achievement) but in the same season he got them relegated again.
Sacked by Villa after one season.
Has managed 7 games in English football since May 2012.
I hope and pray he doesn't become our manager.0 -
McLeish and Muir bringing crackheads from Glasgow to feel at home?Red_Chester said:
Rod Stewart back row with a tinny.killerandflash said:
More people in the Director's box than in the rest of the stadium!craigcafc said:Mark McGhee there with McLeish tonight as well by the looks of things...
(no offence if that's anyone on this site or if you know this person)
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PriceWaterhouseCoopers - Seriously big firm.carly burn said:
What I still don't understand is that we were told that nothing is happening, nothing had happened and DD hadn't taken place yet Airman has all these dates and names.
I think VOTV must be making it all up as there is no way the other ITK person is wrong, he never is : - )15 -
If anyone wants a great and thorough update then read this!!!carly burn said:10 -
Jesus, you like making a point don't youHenry Irving said:
PriceWaterhouseCoopers - Seriously big firm.carly burn said:
What I still don't understand is that we were told that nothing is happening, nothing had happened and DD hadn't taken place yet Airman has all these dates and names.
I think VOTV must be making it all up as there is no way the other ITK person is wrong, he never is : - )3 -
So the Greek guy got PwC to do DD which introduced Muir who then got AM to be potential DoF?
Seems like it’s pretty close to done if Mcleish has started coming to games1 -
Ah !Addickted4life said:
If anyone wants a great and thorough update then read this!!!carly burn said:
That hit the spot.
Can always rely on AB to put a smile back on Fanny's face ......
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Four years of losses but still only 2 promotions from the Premiership. Charlton's potential earnings will always be significantly higher than a lot of established clubs in the top leagues in Europe.newyorkaddick said:It is astonishing that football club owners expect to be made whole on their 'investment' - if I bought the equity of a listed company which delivered four consecutive years of losses and had no medium-term prospect of delivering any profits/cashflow, would I expect to be able to sell it back in the market at the same price I bought it at?
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I would say no. I sold my business last year and whilst the DD was taking place we were not allowed to pay suppliers. The DD is to give as accurate picture of the finances as possible so a balance is key i.e. nothing big coming in and nothing big going out.The Red Robin said:Is RD allowed to sell players if he's in due diligence?
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"sources close to Mishcon de Reya"................. good old Bradley Pritchard. I knew he'd come good one day.Addickted4life said:
If anyone wants a great and thorough update then read this!!!carly burn said:8 - Sponsored links:
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That explains tones suspended makro cardeaststandmike said:
I would say no. I sold my business last year and whilst the DD was taking place we were not allowed to pay suppliers. The DD is to give as accurate picture of the finances as possible so a balance is key i.e. nothing big coming in and nothing big going out.The Red Robin said:Is RD allowed to sell players if he's in due diligence?
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Muir's experience with PwC dwarfs Katrien Meire's.2
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Akinfenwa rumour killed but ricky can leave then mike.eaststandmike said:
I would say no. I sold my business last year and whilst the DD was taking place we were not allowed to pay suppliers. The DD is to give as accurate picture of the finances as possible so a balance is key i.e. nothing big coming in and nothing big going out.The Red Robin said:Is RD allowed to sell players if he's in due diligence?
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Showing enormous courage, I have returned again this morning to witness the wreckage which used to be called Charlton Athletic. Is missing the first three penalties a league record ?
Am I the only one becoming suspicious about our list of injuries ? As the goons would have said, is there some clever plan Eccles ? Thinking about it, is Roland a secret survivor of that bunch of comedians ? After all he had the brilliant idea to appoint a young lawyer with apparently no experience either of running a football club or indeed running a company, as our CEO ! I suppose at least she gave us the pleasure of watching her bench go up in flames.
See you all if the idiot ever leaves.0 -
cue jokes about Ginger rogersLargeAddick said:seems to me that Muir was just a financial Red Adair
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At one time McLeish was a fairly regular visitor at Sparrows Lane for Academy games .Leeds_Addick said:So the Greek guy got PwC to do DD which introduced Muir who then got AM to be potential DoF?
Seems like it’s pretty close to done if Mcleish has started coming to games1 -
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He's not the only onei_b_b_o_r_g said:
Jesus, you like making a point don't youHenry Irving said:
PriceWaterhouseCoopers - Seriously big firm.carly burn said:
What I still don't understand is that we were told that nothing is happening, nothing had happened and DD hadn't taken place yet Airman has all these dates and names.
I think VOTV must be making it all up as there is no way the other ITK person is wrong, he never is : - )0 -
Ipswich Town (sensibly run and well supported club) have been only one promotion from the Premiership for the last fifteen seasons during which time they've lost a cumulative £80m or so.Red_in_SE8 said:
Four years of losses but still only 2 promotions from the Premiership. Charlton's potential earnings will always be significantly higher than a lot of established clubs in the top leagues in Europe.newyorkaddick said:It is astonishing that football club owners expect to be made whole on their 'investment' - if I bought the equity of a listed company which delivered four consecutive years of losses and had no medium-term prospect of delivering any profits/cashflow, would I expect to be able to sell it back in the market at the same price I bought it at?
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I expect these potential purchasers are aware that RD is desperate to sell, so will be bidding low. Which is probably the only way to make the purchase even remotely viable.0
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I would welcome McLeish’s involvement at DoF level - we haven’t had proper football experience in our coaching/management set up since Powell, Matthew, & Dyer left the club. He played the game, has managed big clubs and I don’t think he would settle for the mediocrity that we have been forced to settle for as a result of the RD regime.
I cannot see any change being worse than the absolute carnage inflicted on us these past few years.23
