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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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Whatever the pros or cons the aussies are still in and very much in , I think there’s probably been movement on the deal by Dalman and the aussies right now I wouldn’t bet on who will do the deal first as I genuinely think it’s neck and neck as to who concludes firstChris_from_Sidcup said:
You mean the guy who turns up to every fans forum meeting and tells the attendees there are at least 5 interested parties?Henry Irving said:
Whether you want the Aussies or not all the evidence, from NLA, from LDT, from JS, suggests strongly they are still interested.cashncarry said:
Do you really still believe after 2 years Aussies are still interestedScoham said:
If all the rumours were true we’d have probably been taken over about 50 times by now. The Aussies would have completed most of them.JamesSeed said:
Not according to Gerard just now.Scoham said:Someone posted in the same thread "The Aussies have pulled out lack of funding".
By the sounds of all the rumours you’d think Dalman must be ahead though.
Have no other info at the moment.
Wouldn't believe a word he says. However if JS says the Aussies are still in, then i 100% believe him.7 -
#prayforjamesseed5
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I am @JamesSeed3
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I have only recently posted about the Australians as an ITK person since a family member has met one of the alleged consortium whilst on holiday. They are still in.1
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#vivalajamesseed1
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The Aussies have a plan to help develop Australian players so perhaps you could consider adding that sort of criteria to your list.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
That's the point though...what sensible business people would buy a football club these days....none in terms of a pure business decision.Redrobo said:
Be honest, you don’t have any evidence to make this claim, do you?Addickted said:JamesSeed said:
Not according to Gerard just now.Scoham said:Someone posted in the same thread "The Aussies have pulled out lack of funding".
By the sounds of all the rumours you’d think Dalman must be ahead though.
Have no other info at the moment.
Of course the Aussies don't have the funding, otherwise they would have bought the Club two years ago.
I would suggest that they have their price and terms for purchase and will not shift from it.
I would further suggest that the reason we have not got new owners lies firmly with Roland, and not with the Aussies, or any of the professional businessmen, that have tried.
Most clubs are loss making season to season
Ways to make money owning clubs in modern football appear to be limited to:
1) buy one of the few profit generating (I imagine) super clubs like Barcelona, Madrid etc
2) Invest own money or leverage the purchase and future investment against your own private company charging interest gambling at seeing a return by getting to the top flight and cashing in by someone willing to gamble on taking it to the next level ie champion's league ...very low odds and an increasingly competitive league extend these odds
3) asset stripping/ land sale - unlikely and commercial property investment would yield a greater return without anywhere near the same amount of headaches as doing it at a living breathing football clubs.
So if football clubs aren't bought on business decisions that leaves you with owners whose rationale for buying and funding is:
1) passion for that particular club...ie local boy done well...rare as hens teeth in England now the level of wealth required
2) ego trippers - the Tan types
3) genuine decent types like Leicester's late owner who will invest in the concept and the town and its people....even rarer than point 1
4) lunatics who see a new rule like FFP to be exploited and spend years stubbornly trying to instil a failed experiment and protracted sale (mentioning no names)
5) consortia of random investors sold on a return that will soon become apparent doesn't exist a la Kevin Cash
6) Man city types who have so much perpetual wealth they can take tens of millions of losses for seasons on end until an equilibrium is reached and the balance tilts so they can then buy the trophies in perpetuity- rare again
Any sensible business person would not buy a club as a sensible investment alone.
And whether their motivations and objectives are aligned with the supporters and what is good for the long and short term future of that club appears to be incidental on an increasing basis across the English game.
I think you also ignore that very few make decisions based solely on economic sense. We buy new cars, go on nice holidays, give money to charities etc etc.
The very rich buy massive yachts, private planes, fleets of expensive cars, houses all over the world that are staffed and maintained at huge losses. You have to make sure your rivals know how rich you are and keep upping the stakes.
Really successful entrepreneurs enjoy the game of making money. Owning a football club is also a good game. The best at the game win big, and also enjoy the whole ownership thing.3 -
#imjamesseedandsoismywife7
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Bognor?bolloxbolder said:I have only recently posted about the Australians as an ITK person since a family member has met one of the alleged consortium whilst on holiday. They are still in.0 -
carly burn said:
You mean to tell me Murphy wouldn't be savvy to the financial wranglings that are supposedly ongoing?Henry Irving said:
Just proved my point.carly burn said:
But does spill to @JamesSeed at the drop of a hat!Henry Irving said:
Based on?CharltonByBlood said:
I reckon they are still interestedcashncarry said:
Do you really still believe after 2 years Aussies are still interestedScoham said:
If all the rumours were true we’d have probably been taken over about 50 times by now. The Aussies would have completed most of them.JamesSeed said:
Not according to Gerard just now.Scoham said:Someone posted in the same thread "The Aussies have pulled out lack of funding".
By the sounds of all the rumours you’d think Dalman must be ahead though.
Have no other info at the moment.
but I also reckon they are fking skint
Muir alone has the money to buy and run the club.
We don't even know who the other Indian and US partners are so can have no clue as to how rich or "skint" they are.
I don't know how much money they have collectively so how I'm asking a genuine question. How do we know they don't have the money?
Another point.
Duchatelet is the big problem, is and always has been.
But the other significant issue for me is too many intermediaries, brokers and representatives on all sides muddying the waters.
Incompetent Meire and Incompetent De Turck for RD.
Murray claiming to know what the other ex-directors wi take when he doesn't speak for them.
The Aussies and the international group having paid brokers leading on deals.
It means buyer never talks to seller direct. Everyone has their angle, their interests, their cut to think about.
JS doesn't speak to Muir direct and has never claimed to.
He speaks to Murphy, who isn't the money but an intermediary.
I never said that or anything like it, as you well know
The Aussie project is Murphy's baby.
Is it? How do you know that for sure?
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according to a Cardiff supporting relative Dalman "their loss our gain"5
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That explains why you never get your round in then.Addickted said:
If I want something I buy it. If I can't afford it I don't buy it. The only thing the Aussies have bought is two red and white scarves.Redrobo said:
Be honest, you don’t have any evidence to make this claim, do you?Addickted said:JamesSeed said:
Not according to Gerard just now.Scoham said:Someone posted in the same thread "The Aussies have pulled out lack of funding".
By the sounds of all the rumours you’d think Dalman must be ahead though.
Have no other info at the moment.
Of course the Aussies don't have the funding, otherwise they would have bought the Club two years ago.
I would suggest that they have their price and terms for purchase and will not shift from it.
I would further suggest that the reason we have not got new owners lies firmly with Roland, and not with the Aussies, or any of the professional businessmen, that have tried.
The rest is just noise.
I thought it was because you're a tight bastard.
As well as afford and can't afford there is third option. Buy when the price is right.0 -
Because I had a 45 min chat with Gerard about it.Henry Irving said:carly burn said:
You mean to tell me Murphy wouldn't be savvy to the financial wranglings that are supposedly ongoing?Henry Irving said:
Just proved my point.carly burn said:
But does spill to @JamesSeed at the drop of a hat!Henry Irving said:
Based on?CharltonByBlood said:
I reckon they are still interestedcashncarry said:
Do you really still believe after 2 years Aussies are still interestedScoham said:
If all the rumours were true we’d have probably been taken over about 50 times by now. The Aussies would have completed most of them.JamesSeed said:
Not according to Gerard just now.Scoham said:Someone posted in the same thread "The Aussies have pulled out lack of funding".
By the sounds of all the rumours you’d think Dalman must be ahead though.
Have no other info at the moment.
but I also reckon they are fking skint
Muir alone has the money to buy and run the club.
We don't even know who the other Indian and US partners are so can have no clue as to how rich or "skint" they are.
I don't know how much money they have collectively so how I'm asking a genuine question. How do we know they don't have the money?
Another point.
Duchatelet is the big problem, is and always has been.
But the other significant issue for me is too many intermediaries, brokers and representatives on all sides muddying the waters.
Incompetent Meire and Incompetent De Turck for RD.
Murray claiming to know what the other ex-directors wi take when he doesn't speak for them.
The Aussies and the international group having paid brokers leading on deals.
It means buyer never talks to seller direct. Everyone has their angle, their interests, their cut to think about.
JS doesn't speak to Muir direct and has never claimed to.
He speaks to Murphy, who isn't the money but an intermediary.
I never said that or anything like it, as you well know
The Aussie project is Murphy's baby.
Is it? How do you know that for sure?1 -
No way is It Murphy’s baby he is just the frontman of a poor band0
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I can tell you it is.nth london addick said:No way is It Murphy’s baby he is just the frontman of a poor band3 -
Of course. Let's hope the objectives of our next owners whomever they are aligned with ours.Redrobo said:
The Aussies have a plan to help develop Australian players so perhaps you could consider adding that sort of criteria to your list.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
That's the point though...what sensible business people would buy a football club these days....none in terms of a pure business decision.Redrobo said:
Be honest, you don’t have any evidence to make this claim, do you?Addickted said:JamesSeed said:
Not according to Gerard just now.Scoham said:Someone posted in the same thread "The Aussies have pulled out lack of funding".
By the sounds of all the rumours you’d think Dalman must be ahead though.
Have no other info at the moment.
Of course the Aussies don't have the funding, otherwise they would have bought the Club two years ago.
I would suggest that they have their price and terms for purchase and will not shift from it.
I would further suggest that the reason we have not got new owners lies firmly with Roland, and not with the Aussies, or any of the professional businessmen, that have tried.
Most clubs are loss making season to season
Ways to make money owning clubs in modern football appear to be limited to:
1) buy one of the few profit generating (I imagine) super clubs like Barcelona, Madrid etc
2) Invest own money or leverage the purchase and future investment against your own private company charging interest gambling at seeing a return by getting to the top flight and cashing in by someone willing to gamble on taking it to the next level ie champion's league ...very low odds and an increasingly competitive league extend these odds
3) asset stripping/ land sale - unlikely and commercial property investment would yield a greater return without anywhere near the same amount of headaches as doing it at a living breathing football clubs.
So if football clubs aren't bought on business decisions that leaves you with owners whose rationale for buying and funding is:
1) passion for that particular club...ie local boy done well...rare as hens teeth in England now the level of wealth required
2) ego trippers - the Tan types
3) genuine decent types like Leicester's late owner who will invest in the concept and the town and its people....even rarer than point 1
4) lunatics who see a new rule like FFP to be exploited and spend years stubbornly trying to instil a failed experiment and protracted sale (mentioning no names)
5) consortia of random investors sold on a return that will soon become apparent doesn't exist a la Kevin Cash
6) Man city types who have so much perpetual wealth they can take tens of millions of losses for seasons on end until an equilibrium is reached and the balance tilts so they can then buy the trophies in perpetuity- rare again
Any sensible business person would not buy a club as a sensible investment alone.
And whether their motivations and objectives are aligned with the supporters and what is good for the long and short term future of that club appears to be incidental on an increasing basis across the English game.
I think you also ignore that very few make decisions based solely on economic sense. We buy new cars, go on nice holidays, give money to charities etc etc.
The very rich buy massive yachts, private planes, fleets of expensive cars, houses all over the world that are staffed and maintained at huge losses. You have to make sure your rivals know how rich you are and keep upping the stakes.
Really successful entrepreneurs enjoy the game of making money. Owning a football club is also a good game. The best at the game win big, and also enjoy the whole ownership thing.
Re the developing Aussie talent is there real scope for that in terms of work permit limitations and home grown requirements? (Not even sure if such requirements even still exist).
I don't think constructive sceptism/ caution is necessarily unhealthy and that questioning potential owner's motives and capabilities is taboo (providing it's not attacking the messenger) particularly given our recent ownership history.
Not being Duchatelet does not automatically equate to being better for Charlton and the proof will be in what unfolds once we're bought.
Whilst like all of us I hope our next owners will be good and at least not as bad as the current one I don't subscribe to the anyone else is automatically better given we probably all thought his purchase and the Jiminez ownership were positive in the early days.0 -
If only it were hen mental mad. I’d see that as a sign.KiwiValley said:
Well I think we learnt that his full name is an anagram for something disturbing ...hem mental mad . Something like that.J BLOCK said:
Appreciate you posting what you hear James.JamesSeed said:Wasn’t expecting to cause such a stir. A couple of you need to calm down a bit.
For info, Murphy sometimes calls me, and I haven’t called him for three weeks.
I sent him a Whats App last night, because of all the rumours flying around, asking if they’d pulled out. He said they haven’t.
And that’s it.
To be honest I’m pretty bored with all the transfer talk, and I don’t even have a preference as to who buys the club. If the Aussies don’t have funding to buy the club and run it properly for five years I’d rather someone else did. But as Henry said, we don’t really know the facts at the current time.
We’ve heard good and bad things about Dalman, but he has genuine relevant experience in high level football, and clearly isn’t another spiv - but he is what you’d call a football man. Wouldn’t be disappointed at all if he bought the club.
What negative things have we heard about Dalman btw? For me he looks a sound choice.3 -
The biggest problem I can see with the Australians, is the complexity of the consortium.
Every time the make up of the consortium changes, the paperwork to the EFL changes. Then the EFL start doing their "Fit and Proper Persons" checks, (and we all should be aware what a joke that is. See Blackpool, Portsmouth, Bolton etc.) Then, someone pulls out of the consortium, the Aussies hunt around for new members, and they then resubmit a new list to the EFL.
And the whole palaver starts all over again...4 -
Je Suis James Seed3
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East_Stand_Loopy said:The biggest problem I can see with the Australians, is the complexity of the consortium.
Every time the make up of the consortium changes, the paperwork to the EFL changes. Then the EFL start doing their "Fit and Proper Persons" checks, (and we all should be aware what a joke that is. See Blackpool, Portsmouth, Bolton etc.) Then, someone pulls out of the consortium, the Aussies hunt around for new members, and they then resubmit a new list to the EFL.
And the whole palalaver starts all over again...
Me too.
It is a real concern for me that if the faces are changing so often before the sale what about after.3 -
if it is we are in more trouble than ever because on the supermarket scale of money he is lidl at bestcarly burn said:
I can tell you it is.nth london addick said:No way is It Murphy’s baby he is just the frontman of a poor band
i would be shocked if you are right there1 - Sponsored links:
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Will the real @JamesSeed please stand up? I repeat, will the real @JamesSeed please stand up? We’re gonna have a problem here...2
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1796, Rizla introduce cigarette rolling paper.4
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I think we may be getting some wires crossed here.nth london addick said:
if it is we are in more trouble than ever because on the supermarket scale of money he is lidl at bestcarly burn said:
I can tell you it is.nth london addick said:No way is It Murphy’s baby he is just the frontman of a poor band
i would be shocked if you are right there
When I said it is his baby I mean that he was on board from conception and he has and I'm guessing still is having a big say on the strategy of the project. He told me as much when I spoke to him.
For that reason, as I said to HI, he would have first hand knowledge of those that have committed financially, the money available and the prices being asked to pay.
At no point did I say he was the one with the financial clout.3 -
Lidl is a very successful supermarket brand... I'd take Aldi or Lidl over the Happy Shopper we have right now.nth london addick said:
if it is we are in more trouble than ever because on the supermarket scale of money he is lidl at bestcarly burn said:
I can tell you it is.nth london addick said:No way is It Murphy’s baby he is just the frontman of a poor band
i would be shocked if you are right thereStore appearance Staff availability Quality of own-label products Quality of fresh produce Value for money Customer score Waitrose (3,878) ***** ***** **** **** ** 76% Marks & Spencer (2,818) ***** **** ***** ***** ** 71% Aldi (3,233) * * * ** ***** 68% Lidl (3,072) * * * ** ***** 66% Morrisons (3,160) **** *** **** *** *** 64% Sainsbury’s (4,330) **** *** ***** *** ** 63% Tesco (4,273) *** *** **** ** ** 59% Iceland (1,260) ** * ** ** **** 57% Asda (2,601) ** ** *** ** *** 56% 9 -
Could be way off beam here but by “Murphys baby” I take that to mean that it’s his idea. His plan. His blueprint to make it work. That’s a long way from saying it’s his money although no doubt he would invest what he could afford.nth london addick said:
if it is we are in more trouble than ever because on the supermarket scale of money he is lidl at bestcarly burn said:
I can tell you it is.nth london addick said:No way is It Murphy’s baby he is just the frontman of a poor band
i would be shocked if you are right there
Also never quite understood why any investor after having read the prospectus in which it states “to elevate the club to the EPL” would not think that the aim was going to be costly and not achievable without a serious financial commitment. Anything less than a serious financial commitment would be like flushing your money down the pan. Certainly Muir is a serious businessman and won’t have been hoodwinked by anyone to think that achieving the goals can be done on the cheap regardless of how good your business plan is. I’m assuming that other money people are equally as astute.3 -
As a very wise man once said to me...
"It's easy to become a millionaire as an owner of a football club..."
"You have to start as a billionaire, though!"6 -
carly burn said:
I think we may be getting some wires crossed here.nth london addick said:
if it is we are in more trouble than ever because on the supermarket scale of money he is lidl at bestcarly burn said:
I can tell you it is.nth london addick said:No way is It Murphy’s baby he is just the frontman of a poor band
i would be shocked if you are right there
When I said it is his baby I mean that he was on board from conception and he has and I'm guessing still is having a big say on the strategy of the project. He told me as much when I spoke to him.
For that reason, as I said to HI, he would have first hand knowledge of those that have committed financially, the money available and the prices being asked to pay.
At no point did I say he was the one with the financial clout.
Apologies in that context he is without A doubt as you describe
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If I had sent my wife out to buy Charlton she would have had it done and dusted in a day - she wouldn't be able to afford it and probably wouldn't have looked at the price tag, but that has never stopped her in the past ......
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@nth london addick
as a perennial dismisser of the Aussies financial abilities, could you kindly explain why and how you are so sure? Ta0 -
With all this takeover is immanent again bollox I wondered to myself when the next fans forum is.......?? tomorrow I hear you cry - now there's a surprise.
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This discussion has been closed.
