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England Cricket Team Summer 2019 -ICC World Cup and Ashes etc
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Sam Curran? He's never played against South Africa.Johnnysummers5 said:I think he bowled very well against South Africa last summer, took 6 wickets for the Lions Against Australia 11 and has been opening the bowling for Surrey recently0 -
Comparing an average that is 2 different is fairly redundant, espicailly with Sam Curran's very short test career. Curran can only play 1 way and that is to attack, doesn't have much of a defensive technique to speak of - a perfect number 8. Chris Woakes has a Test Match 137* to his name, and 10 first class hundreds too. Curran does not have a hundred in either level of red ball cricket. Not sure how you can justify him being a better batsmancafcfan1990 said:
Test Averages - Woakes 30, Curran 32. Plenty of people feel Curran will be like Stokes, a batsman who can bowl (admittedly think he isn't quite a strong enough batsman for that).Pelling1993 said:
Got to Woakes at 7, much better bat than Currancafcfan1990 said:
Roy and Burns opening, Denly 3, Root 4, Bairstow 5, Ali 6 and Curran 7.Callumcafc said:No Stokes or Buttler? Wondering how 5-6-7 will look in the batting line up.
Woakes has a better first class record but has plenty of experience. Much better bat - no chance.0 -
I could be wrong, it's just an opinion. From what I have seen and heard, Curran is going to be more of a batsman than bowler but he's 21 so can't say for sure.1
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"Was" and not necessarily "is". Or do you think that Archer isn't as good as Broad even though we have been crying out for someone who will make the Aussies uncomfortable by having someone with real pace?Chizz said:
You definitely think we are more likely to bowl Australia out twice by having three wicket-keepers than fielding our greatest-ever new ball bowling partnership?Addick Addict said:
None of them. Drop Burns and as Root refuses to bat at 3, use our WC winning openers of Roy and Bairstow followed by Denly, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Foakes, Ali, Woakes, Archer and Anderson.Chizz said:
Foakes can't keep wicket, unless he's picked. Would you choose him? If so, which world cup winner would you drop?The_President said:So, at the moment, whats it likely to be for 1st Ashes Test?
Roy,Burns,Denly,Root,Stokes,Buttler,Bairstow,Ali,Woakes,Archer,Jimmy.?
Have i missed anyone out other than Broad.?
I dont get Canters earlier comment about 6 bowlers plus Root/Denly, as typically in most tests the 5th bowler only gets to bowl less than 10 overs.
To me, this comes back to the old comment about Bairstow going in at 3 (and maybe Buttler or Foakes keeping wicket).
We might be 100-0 off 10. Or 4-2. But then nothing has really changed if we are the latter.
Injury and/or fatigue will probably mean that we have any three from Anderson/Woakes/Broad and Archer playing during the series plus Stokes. Who is to say that we don't go into a Test without a front line spinner should the pitch dictate? Root and Denly could probably burgle a wicket or two in those circumstances.
Foakes is the best keeper and a proper bat. Buttler isn't a Test quality wicket-keeper and whilst Bairstow should do a fairly decent job, concentrating for a day and a half keeping and then opening isn't a viable option for him. There is room for all three.
I also don't believe our issue will be bowling the Aussies out twice. Our issue will be getting enough runs on the board to give us a chance to do so.2 -
Chizz said:
Sam Curran? He's never played against South Africa.Johnnysummers5 said:I think he bowled very well against South Africa last summer, took 6 wickets for the Lions Against Australia 11 and has been opening the bowling for Surrey recently
Sorry I meant India where he took 11 wickets, if everybody is fit, I would not pick Sam for the first test against Australia, but would have him in the squad, at just 21 he has so much potential, I like Chris Woakes but like Mark Wood he is very injury prone, Sam only got into the team against India, because Ben Stokes was in court, but he played so well, I think he has a great future ahead of him1 -
Would like to dispute a few points here. But with the understanding I don't think Sam gets in our best test side currently.
Sam has opened the bowling for surrey for nearly 3 years now.
He's left arm. Invaluable.
He swings it. One home test last year Hawkeye judged he swung the ball more than Anderson by some considerable distance.
He can be plenty quick enough. Can hit 85mph fairly regularly and did in the home tests last year. More than quick enough for a swing bowler.
He's a big game and big moment player. Every step up he has made he takes in his stride and seems to get better and better. His test record is significantly better than his first class record.
On the whether be can be a batsman or not. When he broke through Alec Stewart said he would end up batting 4 and bowling. But since then his bowling has been exceptional and so I suspect his development has been focused on that rather than his batting.
For home tests I think you need 2 out and out swing bowlers. Jimmy is one and I would have Woakes as the other (though woakes also has other attributes). Stokes plays as the allrounder 4th quick and then it's a straight fight between Broad and Archer/Wood for the bowler that offers a bit more pace and bounce.
So yes Sam wouldn't get in our strongest side at the moment bit he has skills other players don't and has the temperament for the big stage. He certainly isn't all that far away.5 -
I agree, I never said he could be a third choice seamer. And I’m talking in the future when Jimmy and maybe Broad will be gone. Personally I believe Stokes will end up a specialist batsman mainly because of his injuries and he's not a great bowler.Chizz said:
I think he's a fantastic cricketer. I am a big fan. Obviously he has a couple of things which are not in his favour, i.e. he's not very tall and he's not very quick. But he gets the ball off the straight. And he looks composed as a batsman.cafcfan1990 said:
Agreed, and is the reason that Curran wouldn't get into my test team at the minute. But being a 4th choice seamer doesn't have to mean you barely bowl.Chizz said:
In this scenario, it's being proposed that Sam Curran would play that role.Johnnysummers5 said:Chizz said:Why would you pick an "all-rounder" who isn't as good as Stokes with the bat or Woakes with the ball, if you're going to pick those two, too? An "all-rounder" who rarely bowls is too much of a luxury to have in a team with those two.
Who is the all-rounder who rarely bowls?
But that's why I used the word 'future'. Personally (and it's just an opinion) I cannot see Curran being good enough to be in the top 3 seamers. Therefore, his place in the team would need to be as an all-rounder but a better batsman than bowler, just like Stokes is (especially in our one day success). With the quality of our all rounders it's not inconceivable to see us playing 6 bowlers from 6 to 11 with 4 of them being decent batsman.
However...
He's nowhere near good enough to be a third seamer. And, even as a fourth seamer, he'd be taking a better bowler's place. (Imagine if Anderson, Broad, Archer, Wood, Woakes and Stokes were all fit. Would he really strike the selectoros as being our second-best change bowler amongst that lot?)
And he's not a good enough batsman. In the old days (however far you want to go back - Flintoff ... Botham ... Greig ...) a player had to be worth being picked in the team for both disciplines to be considered an all-rounder. For example, at his absolute peak, you could pick Botham as one of six top-order batsmen or one of four front-line bowlers. Sam Curran isn't good enough to be considered an all-rounder.
His batting may develop in future. I hope so. Because he's got a bit of magic about him. But is he ever going to be one of England's top six, best batsmen? I doubt it. And, if hes not going to be considered as an opening bowler, or the first change the captain makes, then he's not an all-rounder.
A bowler who bats a bit is much more useful to a team than a batsman that bowls a bit. Not my words, but those of Richie Benaud. He knew his stuff. Woakes is a bowler who bats a bit. Stokes is a batsman who bowls if it's necessary. We don't need someone who can bat, but only bowls a bit, if we have those two in the team - we would be better off with a "proper" batsman, as opposed to a "potential" batsman.
He'll never be a Flintoff - that's beyond him. But he could be a Collingwood.
The question is, do we need a good batsman who might be needed to bowl a few overs? I think the answer, while Stokes and Woakes can be selected, should be no.
I think it’s rubbish that your not an all rounder unless you open the bowling or first change though.Teams tend to play 5 batsman, a wicket keeper, 2 all rounders and 3 specialist bowlers. The 4th and 5th choice bowlers, generally a 4th seamer and spinner don't have to be first changes but are certainly all rounders.
I do agree with your general assessment but the bloke is 21 and has plenty of time to develop. But at the moment as I have stated I wouldn't pick him in my test team because I would have Woakes, Stokes, Archer, Broad and Jimmy above him. But he is younger than all of those.0 -
So you think that comparing the averages is redundant yet you're happy to state Woakes has loads more hundreds? By that logic we should bring in Chris Jordan for Jofra Archer because he has more wickets?Pelling1993 said:
Comparing an average that is 2 different is fairly redundant, espicailly with Sam Curran's very short test career. Curran can only play 1 way and that is to attack, doesn't have much of a defensive technique to speak of - a perfect number 8. Chris Woakes has a Test Match 137* to his name, and 10 first class hundreds too. Curran does not have a hundred in either level of red ball cricket. Not sure how you can justify him being a better batsmancafcfan1990 said:
Test Averages - Woakes 30, Curran 32. Plenty of people feel Curran will be like Stokes, a batsman who can bowl (admittedly think he isn't quite a strong enough batsman for that).Pelling1993 said:
Got to Woakes at 7, much better bat than Currancafcfan1990 said:
Roy and Burns opening, Denly 3, Root 4, Bairstow 5, Ali 6 and Curran 7.Callumcafc said:No Stokes or Buttler? Wondering how 5-6-7 will look in the batting line up.
Woakes has a better first class record but has plenty of experience. Much better bat - no chance.
And I never stated he was a better batsman, I just disagree that Woakes is a much better bat. For clarification, I like Woakes as a bowler so against Ireland I would put him at 8 and ask him to concentrate on his bowling because I think in the future Curran's batting will be more important for him to get into the side.0 -
Curran has something special about him.
not sure it’s his time this summer though. X1 -
Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey
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I think Woakes is the most under rated player England have had for years. If Jimmy hadn't been around he probably would have been opening the bowling for England for 3 or 4 years now.
Sam Curren has a massive up side and is already a very good cricketer but he isn't as good as Woakes with either bat or ball at the moment.
Curren, rightfully, got in the team last summer when Woakes and Stokes were both unavailable AND England wanted to play 2 spinners. He may get a chance again and I am sure he will do well if called on, but I would rather him play as much 1st class cricket as possible rather than carry drinks or play and hardly bowl.
If everyone is fit I would open the bowling with Woakes and Jimmy, have Archer bowl short bursts and for now keep Broad in the team.2 -
One of the négatives that has been thrown at Sam Curran is his size and that he isnt express.
With the emergence of Archer , and possibly Stone, you would think that he is likely to be about 7th or 8th choice as a quick at the moment behind Jimmy,Broad,Archer,Woakes,Wood,Stone and possibly Stokes - however, can see him being used more from next year when you would expect Jimmy and Broad to hang up their boots.
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Porter and Overton? Curren comes more into the equation if you want 3 bowlers who don't bat. England can, at the moment pick a very good 5 man attack, and Stokes, with Ali and Woakes at 7 and 8. If they want, say Leach in the side for Ali that makes a seamer that can't bat at 7 or 8 more vulnerable.The_President said:One of the négatives that has been thrown at Sam Curran is his size and that he isnt express.
With the emergence of Archer , and possibly Stone, you would think that he is likely to be about 7th or 8th choice as a quick at the moment behind Jimmy,Broad,Archer,Woakes,Wood,Stone and possibly Stokes - however, can see him being used more from next year when you would expect Jimmy and Broad to hang up their boots.
His time will come0 -
I'm a Kent boy at heart, but have to wear Middlesex gear for a t20 night.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey
Very fortunate & lucky to have been working full-time at Lord's for a couple of years now and was there for the unbelievable final last Sunday.
Last time I saw scenes that matched those in the Media Centre was Wembley in May...3 -
Wouldn't get in the Surrey side.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey0 -
Not from Southern Africa then?blackpool72 said:
Wouldn't get in the Surrey side.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey4 -
Don't worry, I forgive youStubleyAddick said:
I'm a Kent boy at heart, but have to wear Middlesex gear for a t20 night.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey
Very fortunate & lucky to have been working full-time at Lord's for a couple of years now and was there for the unbelievable final last Sunday.
Last time I saw scenes that matched those in the Media Centre was Wembley in May...
Must be a great place to work, especially to have been there on Sunday. There can't have been too many people who experienced both our Wembley win and the Cricket WC win!1 -
Cafc43v3r said:
Not from Southern Africa then?blackpool72 said:
Wouldn't get in the Surrey side.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey
And of course, Dickson,Mulder and Kuhn are Canterbury born and bred?2 -
Actually gave you a lol for that .Cafc43v3r said:
Not from Southern Africa then?blackpool72 said:
Wouldn't get in the Surrey side.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey
Very funny0 - Sponsored links:
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Ben Stokes has been nominated for the award for "New Zealander of the Year"0
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You forgot Hardus Viljeon!The_President said:Cafc43v3r said:
Not from Southern Africa then?blackpool72 said:
Wouldn't get in the Surrey side.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey
And of course, Dickson,Mulder and Kuhn are Canterbury born and bred?0 -
And Allan DonaldAddick Addict said:
You forgot Hardus Viljeon!The_President said:Cafc43v3r said:
Not from Southern Africa then?blackpool72 said:
Wouldn't get in the Surrey side.killerandflash said:Greg Stubley is moonlighting with Middlesex tonight! At least it's not Surrey
And of course, Dickson,Mulder and Kuhn are Canterbury born and bred?0 -
Interesting listening to Tresco,Butch and Keys when asked who the next opener off the rank was and they suggested Crawley and Sibley.0
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All I can say is, (sorry girls), but thank eff the Womens Ashes is over.0
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Three T20 matches to go yet! So far been the Elyse Perry show0
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We'll let the Aussies have that one...The_President said:All I can say is, (sorry girls), but thank eff the Womens Ashes is over.2 -
Anyone going to the Test this week? Going to be roasting hot for the players on Wednesday and Thursday0
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I'm going on Wednesday.killerandflash said:Anyone going to the Test this week? Going to be roasting hot for the players on Wednesday and Thursday
Praying for bat first and Denly ton!
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Yep!killerandflash said:Anyone going to the Test this week? Going to be roasting hot for the players on Wednesday and Thursday
There Thursday.0
