The above is what you wrote last night, @AFKABartram.
There is never "nothing" that anyone can do, about anything. Never ever. I'm really susprised to have to say to you of all people that the recent history of Charlton and its fans is the best evidence to support my statement.
kin ell.
I know what i wrote last night. I wrote it.
You tell me then what can be done to make him lower his demands?
What has been done so far, which has been unsuccessful in making him sell at a fair value / lower his demands has been:
- 50+ protests at home - 20+ protests in his own country - multiple game stoppages - massive security costs - 300+ marching through his town - picketing of his places of ownership and places of work - leafleting in his town - multiple flytipping of his property - graffeti of his properties - reduced income to the club - international press ridiculing his name - disruption to his local elections - harrassement to his key employees and their families - disruption at games of other clubs in his network - multiple interuption at STVV to his social engagements - disruption to his birthday celebrations with his family - hate mail / threats to his personal safety
basically, the kitchen sink has been thrown at it and not one of those things has been successful in forcing / encouraging him to lower his demands to a level his not comfortable with. If rumours are true, over the last couple of months he has allegedly increased his demands.
So what based on the above is so outlandish in my viewpoint that there is no evidence that protesting has been / will be successful in leading him to sell outside of a level that he in his own mind sees as him comfortable with (delivering faith in his own mind that he has not 'lost' during this experiment?)
Surely all that has happened over the last five years points to that, no?
The same arguments were made in the 1980s. Nothing can be done; no one is going to pay to resurrect The Valley; we’ve been protesting for five years and we’re still not back there, etc, etc. Then we won.
This is a different problem but we are a long way from where we were four years ago. Duchatelet is publicly exposed and ridiculed. We have a credible football management set-up. He has met and engaged with a whole series of buyers and spent large sums on professional fees.
The argument that nothing has been achieved because everything hasn’t yet been achieved doesn’t really stand up, any more than it did at Selhurst Park.
It's an entirely different scenario and cannot be compared to our move away from the Valley.
All the time protests cost Duchatelet money he adds it to the price, so please do tell me what will make the club more saleable if the protests continue to increase the price?
We got Roland to the point of listing the club for sale, continued actions will only cause a negative effect on the chances for him to sell.
I'm repeating myself but, the more the protests cost Duchatelet money it seems the higher the clubs price goes out of his spite towards us.
The financial cost of protests are a trivial issue compared to the operating losses, which are principally a function of players' wages. Duchatalet can add what he likes to his price, but as no one will ever pay it that won't help him.
But it doesn't help us either? It continues to delay our sale...
What is “it”, exactly? What are these protests that have cost the club money, unless you are talking about the right of supporters to keep their own money in their own pockets?
I believe he is the type to levy additional charges he incurs as a result of protests against the club.
I also believe he'd try to make back more money as a result of not liking the fan base. Why would he want to write off debts to the fans that have been pissing him off?
If I lent someone £100, I would want my £100 back more and more as they acted against me... I would be less inclined to say "'Ah well, it is what it is" despite that being a detrimental waste of my time.
What “additional charges” is he incurring? What protests have taken place at The Valley since 2017 that would incur any?
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
Sounds like you want us to fail on the pitch....
Relegation, consololidation or promotion.....one fact is that he one step closer to popping his clogs and that’s what we all pray for!
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
Sounds like you want us to fail on the pitch....
Oh god, seriously!
???
Because when I read it, it doesn’t sound like that at all. It sounds like a genuine supporter who is fed up to the back teeth of our pathetic owner.
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
Sounds like you want us to fail on the pitch....
Oh god, seriously!
???
Because when I read it, it doesn’t sound like that at all. It sounds like a genuine supporter who is fed up to the back teeth of our pathetic owner.
I understand that, i think near on every fan has had enough. But no one showing up & getting a pasting will literally not effect anything except out teams confidence, let alone get any media coverage. Football is ultimately a game of results. I sure as hell don't want to go back to that Sh*t of league 1, Look at what Bowyer said all last season, we are the 12 man & we can carry them through.
The above is what you wrote last night, @AFKABartram.
There is never "nothing" that anyone can do, about anything. Never ever. I'm really susprised to have to say to you of all people that the recent history of Charlton and its fans is the best evidence to support my statement.
kin ell.
I know what i wrote last night. I wrote it.
You tell me then what can be done to make him lower his demands?
What has been done so far, which has been unsuccessful in making him sell at a fair value / lower his demands has been:
- 50+ protests at home - 20+ protests in his own country - multiple game stoppages - massive security costs - 300+ marching through his town - picketing of his places of ownership and places of work - leafleting in his town - multiple flytipping of his property - graffeti of his properties - reduced income to the club - international press ridiculing his name - disruption to his local elections - harrassement to his key employees and their families - disruption at games of other clubs in his network - multiple interuption at STVV to his social engagements - disruption to his birthday celebrations with his family - hate mail / threats to his personal safety
basically, the kitchen sink has been thrown at it and not one of those things has been successful in forcing / encouraging him to lower his demands to a level his not comfortable with. If rumours are true, over the last couple of months he has allegedly increased his demands.
So what based on the above is so outlandish in my viewpoint that there is no evidence that protesting has been / will be successful in leading him to sell outside of a level that he in his own mind sees as him comfortable with (delivering faith in his own mind that he has not 'lost' during this experiment?)
Surely all that has happened over the last five years points to that, no?
The same arguments were made in the 1980s. Nothing can be done; no one is going to pay to resurrect The Valley; we’ve been protesting for five years and we’re still not back there, etc, etc. Then we won.
This is a different problem but we are a long way from where we were four years ago. Duchatelet is publicly exposed and ridiculed. We have a credible football management set-up. He has met and engaged with a whole series of buyers and spent large sums on professional fees.
The argument that nothing has been achieved because everything hasn’t yet been achieved doesn’t really stand up, any more than it did at Selhurst Park.
It's an entirely different scenario and cannot be compared to our move away from the Valley.
All the time protests cost Duchatelet money he adds it to the price, so please do tell me what will make the club more saleable if the protests continue to increase the price?
We got Roland to the point of listing the club for sale, continued actions will only cause a negative effect on the chances for him to sell.
I'm repeating myself but, the more the protests cost Duchatelet money it seems the higher the clubs price goes out of his spite towards us.
The financial cost of protests are a trivial issue compared to the operating losses, which are principally a function of players' wages. Duchatalet can add what he likes to his price, but as no one will ever pay it that won't help him.
But it doesn't help us either? It continues to delay our sale...
What is “it”, exactly? What are these protests that have cost the club money, unless you are talking about the right of supporters to keep their own money in their own pockets?
I believe he is the type to levy additional charges he incurs as a result of protests against the club.
I also believe he'd try to make back more money as a result of not liking the fan base. Why would he want to write off debts to the fans that have been pissing him off?
If I lent someone £100, I would want my £100 back more and more as they acted against me... I would be less inclined to say "'Ah well, it is what it is" despite that being a detrimental waste of my time.
Of course any costs in incurred by the club, due to protests, are added to the debt owed to RD, as they increase the operating costs of the club and the size of any loss. As for the analogy of wanting back money lent that's a bit wide of the mark. RD hasn't lent the fans any money he has wasted tens of millions of pounds of his own money because he doesn't have a clue as to how to run a football club. The fans haven't wasted that money, he has and the longer he holds out for what he considers a suitable buyer the more money he is going to "lend".
Of course you're right. You should never be willing to invest more than you are willing to lose. It seems he's trying to catch some of that lost money, which is moronic. He continues to gamble, however our club, the training ground and stadium are his bargaining chips, they say £25m on the lot but he sees £50m
He is likely totally unware that he cannot separate the ground from the club and sell off for housing. He will have little idea of the debt preference of footballers. No doubt his plan B is to fold us and expect to get his money back. Someone should send him this link.
The above is what you wrote last night, @AFKABartram.
There is never "nothing" that anyone can do, about anything. Never ever. I'm really susprised to have to say to you of all people that the recent history of Charlton and its fans is the best evidence to support my statement.
kin ell.
I know what i wrote last night. I wrote it.
You tell me then what can be done to make him lower his demands?
What has been done so far, which has been unsuccessful in making him sell at a fair value / lower his demands has been:
- 50+ protests at home - 20+ protests in his own country - multiple game stoppages - massive security costs - 300+ marching through his town - picketing of his places of ownership and places of work - leafleting in his town - multiple flytipping of his property - graffeti of his properties - reduced income to the club - international press ridiculing his name - disruption to his local elections - harrassement to his key employees and their families - disruption at games of other clubs in his network - multiple interuption at STVV to his social engagements - disruption to his birthday celebrations with his family - hate mail / threats to his personal safety
basically, the kitchen sink has been thrown at it and not one of those things has been successful in forcing / encouraging him to lower his demands to a level his not comfortable with. If rumours are true, over the last couple of months he has allegedly increased his demands.
So what based on the above is so outlandish in my viewpoint that there is no evidence that protesting has been / will be successful in leading him to sell outside of a level that he in his own mind sees as him comfortable with (delivering faith in his own mind that he has not 'lost' during this experiment?)
Surely all that has happened over the last five years points to that, no?
The same arguments were made in the 1980s. Nothing can be done; no one is going to pay to resurrect The Valley; we’ve been protesting for five years and we’re still not back there, etc, etc. Then we won.
This is a different problem but we are a long way from where we were four years ago. Duchatelet is publicly exposed and ridiculed. We have a credible football management set-up. He has met and engaged with a whole series of buyers and spent large sums on professional fees.
The argument that nothing has been achieved because everything hasn’t yet been achieved doesn’t really stand up, any more than it did at Selhurst Park.
It's an entirely different scenario and cannot be compared to our move away from the Valley.
All the time protests cost Duchatelet money he adds it to the price, so please do tell me what will make the club more saleable if the protests continue to increase the price?
We got Roland to the point of listing the club for sale, continued actions will only cause a negative effect on the chances for him to sell.
I'm repeating myself but, the more the protests cost Duchatelet money it seems the higher the clubs price goes out of his spite towards us.
The financial cost of protests are a trivial issue compared to the operating losses, which are principally a function of players' wages. Duchatalet can add what he likes to his price, but as no one will ever pay it that won't help him.
But it doesn't help us either? It continues to delay our sale...
What is “it”, exactly? What are these protests that have cost the club money, unless you are talking about the right of supporters to keep their own money in their own pockets?
I believe he is the type to levy additional charges he incurs as a result of protests against the club.
I also believe he'd try to make back more money as a result of not liking the fan base. Why would he want to write off debts to the fans that have been pissing him off?
If I lent someone £100, I would want my £100 back more and more as they acted against me... I would be less inclined to say "'Ah well, it is what it is" despite that being a detrimental waste of my time.
Of course any costs in incurred by the club, due to protests, are added to the debt owed to RD, as they increase the operating costs of the club and the size of any loss. As for the analogy of wanting back money lent that's a bit wide of the mark. RD hasn't lent the fans any money he has wasted tens of millions of pounds of his own money because he doesn't have a clue as to how to run a football club. The fans haven't wasted that money, he has and the longer he holds out for what he considers a suitable buyer the more money he is going to "lend".
Of course you're right. You should never be willing to invest more than you are willing to lose. It seems he's trying to catch some of that lost money, which is moronic. He continues to gamble, however our club, the training ground and stadium are his bargaining chips, they say £25m on the lot but he sees £50m
He is likely totally unware that he cannot separate the ground from the club and sell off for housing. He will have little idea of the debt preference of footballers. No doubt his plan B is to fold us and expect to get his money back. Someone should send him this link.
@Chizz excellent posts have saved me a lot of bother, well said, sir.
Just one question for @AFKABartram whose comments last night I found extraordinarily depressing.
RD sold Standard Liege long before he announced to the world that he was getting out of football. Why, in your opinion, did he sell Standard (to his own CEO who was strapped for the readies, and not some rich Arabs) at that time?
Firstly, I don’t know why you would find my comment extraordinarily depressing. It’s just merely my own personal opinion, which none of us know is right or wrong, and not a fact.
As for your question, I don’t know. No one other than Roland would know. My best guess is that with STVV promoted there was an issue with him having categorised ownership of two clubs in the same division. Given there has since been rumours it was not a straight forward sale, I’m 99% certain it would have been down to either that regulatory insistence or an opportunity that suited Roland best. I’m 100% convinced it was not down to a group of Standard fans door-stopping him at the stadium over two years prior.
The only way I can see a successful sale of Charlton is if one of those two criterias are met above. There won’t be a regulatory need so we are reliant on an opportunity that suits Roland best, and that will be him ensuring he gets the deal he wants out of this, regardless of the ongoing costs / losses that most of us sane people would factor in. No amount of periphery noise is going to change his demands, if that was the case it would have happened by now, imo.
As said, purely my view and not a fact
I think it’s the disappointing stance you seem to be taking against those of us who are prepared to be more pro active (whether it achieves anything or not is, in a sense, irrelevant) .....I always thought you were 100% behind us, it would seem that never was (or least ways no longer is), the case?
Then you are not really
reading what I have wrote and instead chosen to take it personally or as a
criticism for protesting. If you read back what I have wrote I don’t think
there is a single word there that could be interpreted as critical. You knock
yourself out with whatever you want to do, I can’t stand the bloke and think he
is a diabolical owner. I just don’t believe anything so far has been successful
in encouraging (let alone forcing) him to lower his demands and I don’t see
that changing in future.
As for the last sentence, I don’t
think trying to draw ‘us’ lines is particularly helpful and just likely to
create unnecessary divisions so in the grand scheme of things its irrelevant
what I or anybody else thinks in that sense.
For what it's worth, Roland, according to GM who speaks to him, *is* affected by the protests. He can't stand the knock to his reputation, and actually thought he was winning fans round after the playoff final. He felt empowered, which is possibly why he felt he could put the price up after the final (despite saying he wouldn't), and get away with it. Obviously the club is still unsold, so you could argue the protests have had limited success, but Bowyer's contract was renewed very soon after the online outrage at his failure to do so up until that point.
Protests only happen when enough people want to protest, and they won't at the beginning of a new season in the Championship. But they might if we're bottom after five or six games. Whether they would make a difference or not I don't know, but I'd like to think there's a least a slim chance they might.
What empowers him I guess is 1000s buying season tickets to support him and his team! He’s won.
@Chizz excellent posts have saved me a lot of bother, well said, sir.
Just one question for @AFKABartram whose comments last night I found extraordinarily depressing.
RD sold Standard Liege long before he announced to the world that he was getting out of football. Why, in your opinion, did he sell Standard (to his own CEO who was strapped for the readies, and not some rich Arabs) at that time?
Firstly, I don’t know why you would find my comment extraordinarily depressing. It’s just merely my own personal opinion, which none of us know is right or wrong, and not a fact.
As for your question, I don’t know. No one other than Roland would know. My best guess is that with STVV promoted there was an issue with him having categorised ownership of two clubs in the same division. Given there has since been rumours it was not a straight forward sale, I’m 99% certain it would have been down to either that regulatory insistence or an opportunity that suited Roland best. I’m 100% convinced it was not down to a group of Standard fans door-stopping him at the stadium over two years prior.
The only way I can see a successful sale of Charlton is if one of those two criterias are met above. There won’t be a regulatory need so we are reliant on an opportunity that suits Roland best, and that will be him ensuring he gets the deal he wants out of this, regardless of the ongoing costs / losses that most of us sane people would factor in. No amount of periphery noise is going to change his demands, if that was the case it would have happened by now, imo.
As said, purely my view and not a fact
I think it’s the disappointing stance you seem to be taking against those of us who are prepared to be more pro active (whether it achieves anything or not is, in a sense, irrelevant) .....I always thought you were 100% behind us, it would seem that never was (or least ways no longer is), the case?
Then you are not really
reading what I have wrote and instead chosen to take it personally or as a
criticism for protesting. If you read back what I have wrote I don’t think
there is a single word there that could be interpreted as critical. You knock
yourself out with whatever you want to do, I can’t stand the bloke and think he
is a diabolical owner. I just don’t believe anything so far has been successful
in encouraging (let alone forcing) him to lower his demands and I don’t see
that changing in future.
As for the last sentence, I don’t
think trying to draw ‘us’ lines is particularly helpful and just likely to
create unnecessary divisions so in the grand scheme of things its irrelevant
what I or anybody else thinks in that sense.
For what it's worth, Roland, according to GM who speaks to him, *is* affected by the protests. He can't stand the knock to his reputation, and actually thought he was winning fans round after the playoff final. He felt empowered, which is possibly why he felt he could put the price up after the final (despite saying he wouldn't), and get away with it. Obviously the club is still unsold, so you could argue the protests have had limited success, but Bowyer's contract was renewed very soon after the online outrage at his failure to do so up until that point.
Protests only happen when enough people want to protest, and they won't at the beginning of a new season in the Championship. But they might if we're bottom after five or six games. Whether they would make a difference or not I don't know, but I'd like to think there's a least a slim chance they might.
What empowers him I guess is 1000s buying season tickets to support him and his team! He’s won.
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
Sounds like you want us to fail on the pitch....
Oh god, seriously!
???
Because when I read it, it doesn’t sound like that at all. It sounds like a genuine supporter who is fed up to the back teeth of our pathetic owner.
I understand that, i think near on every fan has had enough. But no one showing up & getting a pasting will literally not effect anything except out teams confidence, let alone get any media coverage. Football is ultimately a game of results. I sure as hell don't want to go back to that Sh*t of league 1, Look at what Bowyer said all last season, we are the 12 man & we can carry them through.
Still didn’t mean what Braziliance said meant he wants us to fail either, which is what you were accusing him of. None of us want to be relegated, but if we are, the ONLY person responsible for that will be Douchbag. Not whether a few of the boycotters didn’t bother to show up at Stoke on a Tuesday night.
Seriously worth getting rid of this thread. Heard from a few people that nothing is happening. Don’t be surprised to see something on the official website confirming that the takeover is on hold.
I say it again where is Murray while all this is going on?
He should be putting a sound business case to Roland showing why it is prudent to cut his losses and sell at a lower price. He was quite happy at the start to remind him that he did not have many years left so wanted to take the club to the premier league asap sic
1953, Pinza wins the Derby to give Sir Gordon Richards his one and only winner in the race, during what had already been announced was his final season in the saddle.
Probably get a few lols for this and some raised eyebrows but I truly hate the support the team stuff now. At first I bought into it cause of the emotion of Wembley and our play off run but now after everything that's happened since I have no interest in the new season. I couldn't care less if we did a mass boycott and our players had to play in front of no fans, the future of our club is more important than what makes the likes of Bowyer or Lyle Taylor happy. Players and managers come and go, the club doesn't/we can't let it.
I've said it before that Bowyer is my favourite manager since Curbs but it gets to a point where that's not enough, if Bowyer was anyone else there would be outrage, asking us to fill stadiums etc when he knows the resent we have towards our owner, filling the stadium isn't going to win us games or make us play better, making it a ghost town on match days would have a bigger impact.
We have a worse team than league1 or at best on par, the feel good factor has well and truly passed and I've already told myself I won't be going to any games, including aways now. Roland needs to go, if that means losing all our current favourite players and manager then so be it, it's a no brainer. A mass boycott would definitely cause something, I don't know why it has been argued that it wouldn't in the past, even if it was for one game it would be a huge deal
I get what you are saying. But what if the mass boycott/our reactions help lead to relegation.
Bowyer goes, players go and we get taken over. What makes you think we are then a club on the up and one which can recover.
Roland has to go, obviously. But there are worse owners out there, believe it or now.
I do of course understand the real fear under Roland is that nothing will get better, we have nothing to look forward to. Our only bit of success under him was a League 1 play off final win and there is no way that any further success is possible under him it seems.
I have the answer! RD said that he can manage the losses in League 1 and 2, but they are too much in the Championship. If we get ourselves promoted to the Premier League his losses will probably kill him (not literally), and he will lose so much money he will have to get rid of the club as quick as possible, whatever he is offered. Easy. OK Bowyer lets get promoted
The above is what you wrote last night, @AFKABartram.
There is never "nothing" that anyone can do, about anything. Never ever. I'm really susprised to have to say to you of all people that the recent history of Charlton and its fans is the best evidence to support my statement.
kin ell.
I know what i wrote last night. I wrote it.
You tell me then what can be done to make him lower his demands?
What has been done so far, which has been unsuccessful in making him sell at a fair value / lower his demands has been:
- 50+ protests at home - 20+ protests in his own country - multiple game stoppages - massive security costs - 300+ marching through his town - picketing of his places of ownership and places of work - leafleting in his town - multiple flytipping of his property - graffeti of his properties - reduced income to the club - international press ridiculing his name - disruption to his local elections - harrassement to his key employees and their families - disruption at games of other clubs in his network - multiple interuption at STVV to his social engagements - disruption to his birthday celebrations with his family - hate mail / threats to his personal safety
basically, the kitchen sink has been thrown at it and not one of those things has been successful in forcing / encouraging him to lower his demands to a level his not comfortable with. If rumours are true, over the last couple of months he has allegedly increased his demands.
So what based on the above is so outlandish in my viewpoint that there is no evidence that protesting has been / will be successful in leading him to sell outside of a level that he in his own mind sees as him comfortable with (delivering faith in his own mind that he has not 'lost' during this experiment?)
Surely all that has happened over the last five years points to that, no?
The same arguments were made in the 1980s. Nothing can be done; no one is going to pay to resurrect The Valley; we’ve been protesting for five years and we’re still not back there, etc, etc. Then we won.
This is a different problem but we are a long way from where we were four years ago. Duchatelet is publicly exposed and ridiculed. We have a credible football management set-up. He has met and engaged with a whole series of buyers and spent large sums on professional fees.
The argument that nothing has been achieved because everything hasn’t yet been achieved doesn’t really stand up, any more than it did at Selhurst Park.
It's an entirely different scenario and cannot be compared to our move away from the Valley.
All the time protests cost Duchatelet money he adds it to the price, so please do tell me what will make the club more saleable if the protests continue to increase the price?
We got Roland to the point of listing the club for sale, continued actions will only cause a negative effect on the chances for him to sell.
I'm repeating myself but, the more the protests cost Duchatelet money it seems the higher the clubs price goes out of his spite towards us.
The financial cost of protests are a trivial issue compared to the operating losses, which are principally a function of players' wages. Duchatalet can add what he likes to his price, but as no one will ever pay it that won't help him.
But it doesn't help us either? It continues to delay our sale...
What is “it”, exactly? What are these protests that have cost the club money, unless you are talking about the right of supporters to keep their own money in their own pockets?
I believe he is the type to levy additional charges he incurs as a result of protests against the club.
I also believe he'd try to make back more money as a result of not liking the fan base. Why would he want to write off debts to the fans that have been pissing him off?
If I lent someone £100, I would want my £100 back more and more as they acted against me... I would be less inclined to say "'Ah well, it is what it is" despite that being a detrimental waste of my time.
What “additional charges” is he incurring? What protests have taken place at The Valley since 2017 that would incur any?
Why are you fixated on just at the Valley? You forget in his delusions he sees the protests as costing him money as they're stopping him from selling the club.
I have the answer! RD said that he can manage the losses in League 1 and 2, but they are too much in the Championship. If we get ourselves promoted to the Premier League his losses will probably kill him (not literally), and he will lose so much money he will have to get rid of the club as quick as possible, whatever he is offered. Easy. OK Bowyer lets get promoted
If we were promoted to the Prem with this budget he'd be rolling in it.
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
Sounds like you want us to fail on the pitch....
Oh god, seriously!
???
Because when I read it, it doesn’t sound like that at all. It sounds like a genuine supporter who is fed up to the back teeth of our pathetic owner.
I understand that, i think near on every fan has had enough. But no one showing up & getting a pasting will literally not effect anything except out teams confidence, let alone get any media coverage. Football is ultimately a game of results. I sure as hell don't want to go back to that Sh*t of league 1, Look at what Bowyer said all last season, we are the 12 man & we can carry them through.
Still didn’t mean what Braziliance said meant he wants us to fail either, which is what you were accusing him of. None of us want to be relegated, but if we are, the ONLY person responsible for that will be Douchbag. Not whether a few of the boycotters didn’t bother to show up at Stoke on a Tuesday night.
Braziliance doesn't want us to fail. He just doesn't think supporting the team makes any difference.
The team's success last season was apparently nothing to do with the paying fans.
Despite it being something of a proven cliché the 12th man makes a huge difference in motivating and lifting teams.
The above is what you wrote last night, @AFKABartram.
There is never "nothing" that anyone can do, about anything. Never ever. I'm really susprised to have to say to you of all people that the recent history of Charlton and its fans is the best evidence to support my statement.
kin ell.
I know what i wrote last night. I wrote it.
You tell me then what can be done to make him lower his demands?
What has been done so far, which has been unsuccessful in making him sell at a fair value / lower his demands has been:
- 50+ protests at home - 20+ protests in his own country - multiple game stoppages - massive security costs - 300+ marching through his town - picketing of his places of ownership and places of work - leafleting in his town - multiple flytipping of his property - graffeti of his properties - reduced income to the club - international press ridiculing his name - disruption to his local elections - harrassement to his key employees and their families - disruption at games of other clubs in his network - multiple interuption at STVV to his social engagements - disruption to his birthday celebrations with his family - hate mail / threats to his personal safety
basically, the kitchen sink has been thrown at it and not one of those things has been successful in forcing / encouraging him to lower his demands to a level his not comfortable with. If rumours are true, over the last couple of months he has allegedly increased his demands.
So what based on the above is so outlandish in my viewpoint that there is no evidence that protesting has been / will be successful in leading him to sell outside of a level that he in his own mind sees as him comfortable with (delivering faith in his own mind that he has not 'lost' during this experiment?)
Surely all that has happened over the last five years points to that, no?
The same arguments were made in the 1980s. Nothing can be done; no one is going to pay to resurrect The Valley; we’ve been protesting for five years and we’re still not back there, etc, etc. Then we won.
This is a different problem but we are a long way from where we were four years ago. Duchatelet is publicly exposed and ridiculed. We have a credible football management set-up. He has met and engaged with a whole series of buyers and spent large sums on professional fees.
The argument that nothing has been achieved because everything hasn’t yet been achieved doesn’t really stand up, any more than it did at Selhurst Park.
It's an entirely different scenario and cannot be compared to our move away from the Valley.
All the time protests cost Duchatelet money he adds it to the price, so please do tell me what will make the club more saleable if the protests continue to increase the price?
We got Roland to the point of listing the club for sale, continued actions will only cause a negative effect on the chances for him to sell.
I'm repeating myself but, the more the protests cost Duchatelet money it seems the higher the clubs price goes out of his spite towards us.
The financial cost of protests are a trivial issue compared to the operating losses, which are principally a function of players' wages. Duchatalet can add what he likes to his price, but as no one will ever pay it that won't help him.
But it doesn't help us either? It continues to delay our sale...
What is “it”, exactly? What are these protests that have cost the club money, unless you are talking about the right of supporters to keep their own money in their own pockets?
I believe he is the type to levy additional charges he incurs as a result of protests against the club.
I also believe he'd try to make back more money as a result of not liking the fan base. Why would he want to write off debts to the fans that have been pissing him off?
If I lent someone £100, I would want my £100 back more and more as they acted against me... I would be less inclined to say "'Ah well, it is what it is" despite that being a detrimental waste of my time.
What “additional charges” is he incurring? What protests have taken place at The Valley since 2017 that would incur any?
Why are you fixated on just at the Valley? You forget in his delusions he sees the protests as costing him money as they're stopping him from selling the club.
So you can't identify any "charges" from protests, but you think it's important to stop these protests because they are "stopping him from selling the club". You've lost me, I'm afraid. The only thing preventing him selling the club is his inability to accept the consequences of his own actions.
He thinks he can exploit the loan system I reckon, however l would submit that loans are hit and miss, but also more effective in League 1 as its not as competitive and the step down is bigger, so far trickier in the Championship
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
Sounds like you want us to fail on the pitch....
Oh god, seriously!
???
Because when I read it, it doesn’t sound like that at all. It sounds like a genuine supporter who is fed up to the back teeth of our pathetic owner.
I understand that, i think near on every fan has had enough. But no one showing up & getting a pasting will literally not effect anything except out teams confidence, let alone get any media coverage. Football is ultimately a game of results. I sure as hell don't want to go back to that Sh*t of league 1, Look at what Bowyer said all last season, we are the 12 man & we can carry them through.
Still didn’t mean what Braziliance said meant he wants us to fail either, which is what you were accusing him of. None of us want to be relegated, but if we are, the ONLY person responsible for that will be Douchbag. Not whether a few of the boycotters didn’t bother to show up at Stoke on a Tuesday night.
Braziliance doesn't want us to fail. He just doesn't think supporting the team makes any difference.
The team's success last season was apparently nothing to do with the paying fans.
Despite it being something of a proven cliché the 12th man makes a huge difference in motivating and lifting teams.
Don’t think he meant supporting the team doesn’t make any difference either. He suggested a blanket boycott as a last effort to get rid of Douchbag.
The 12th man can make a huge difference. Will it, if we go through this season with what we currently have? I doubt it.
The above is what you wrote last night, @AFKABartram.
There is never "nothing" that anyone can do, about anything. Never ever. I'm really susprised to have to say to you of all people that the recent history of Charlton and its fans is the best evidence to support my statement.
kin ell.
I know what i wrote last night. I wrote it.
You tell me then what can be done to make him lower his demands?
What has been done so far, which has been unsuccessful in making him sell at a fair value / lower his demands has been:
- 50+ protests at home - 20+ protests in his own country - multiple game stoppages - massive security costs - 300+ marching through his town - picketing of his places of ownership and places of work - leafleting in his town - multiple flytipping of his property - graffeti of his properties - reduced income to the club - international press ridiculing his name - disruption to his local elections - harrassement to his key employees and their families - disruption at games of other clubs in his network - multiple interuption at STVV to his social engagements - disruption to his birthday celebrations with his family - hate mail / threats to his personal safety
basically, the kitchen sink has been thrown at it and not one of those things has been successful in forcing / encouraging him to lower his demands to a level his not comfortable with. If rumours are true, over the last couple of months he has allegedly increased his demands.
So what based on the above is so outlandish in my viewpoint that there is no evidence that protesting has been / will be successful in leading him to sell outside of a level that he in his own mind sees as him comfortable with (delivering faith in his own mind that he has not 'lost' during this experiment?)
Surely all that has happened over the last five years points to that, no?
The same arguments were made in the 1980s. Nothing can be done; no one is going to pay to resurrect The Valley; we’ve been protesting for five years and we’re still not back there, etc, etc. Then we won.
This is a different problem but we are a long way from where we were four years ago. Duchatelet is publicly exposed and ridiculed. We have a credible football management set-up. He has met and engaged with a whole series of buyers and spent large sums on professional fees.
The argument that nothing has been achieved because everything hasn’t yet been achieved doesn’t really stand up, any more than it did at Selhurst Park.
It's an entirely different scenario and cannot be compared to our move away from the Valley.
All the time protests cost Duchatelet money he adds it to the price, so please do tell me what will make the club more saleable if the protests continue to increase the price?
We got Roland to the point of listing the club for sale, continued actions will only cause a negative effect on the chances for him to sell.
I'm repeating myself but, the more the protests cost Duchatelet money it seems the higher the clubs price goes out of his spite towards us.
The financial cost of protests are a trivial issue compared to the operating losses, which are principally a function of players' wages. Duchatalet can add what he likes to his price, but as no one will ever pay it that won't help him.
But it doesn't help us either? It continues to delay our sale...
What is “it”, exactly? What are these protests that have cost the club money, unless you are talking about the right of supporters to keep their own money in their own pockets?
I believe he is the type to levy additional charges he incurs as a result of protests against the club.
I also believe he'd try to make back more money as a result of not liking the fan base. Why would he want to write off debts to the fans that have been pissing him off?
If I lent someone £100, I would want my £100 back more and more as they acted against me... I would be less inclined to say "'Ah well, it is what it is" despite that being a detrimental waste of my time.
What “additional charges” is he incurring? What protests have taken place at The Valley since 2017 that would incur any?
Why are you fixated on just at the Valley? You forget in his delusions he sees the protests as costing him money as they're stopping him from selling the club.
So you can't identify any "charges" from protests, but you think it's important to stop these protests because they are "stopping him from selling the club". You've lost me, I'm afraid. The only thing preventing him selling the club is his inability to accept the consequences of his own actions.
And as for not making a difference to the club it's more a personal decision for me. Why should I waste my weekends spending money and travelling around when ultimately it's not going to make a difference to our results and my money and time can be better invested elsewhere. Love our fans, love our club but I hate the feeling it has again, stop going and I don't have to worry about that.
20k fans showing up and beating Stoke on the opening home game will suggest everything is ok, no one showing up and Stoke giving us a pasting will send the message that everything is not ok which is what we need. We are not going to grow while Roland is in charge so why does it matter if we stay up or not at this point, clearly it doesn't change his stance on selling the club
So you say what we need is no one showing up for the Stoke game and that we lose perhaps 0-3 or 0-4. This will send a message that everything is not ok.
So who are the recipients of this message and how does this message to them, force RD to sell at a lower price ? If you can explain how it will work, it could be a great plan.
It seems to me that should RD or his 'people' are reading this site they will be reporting back that we are once again turning on each other. There are no right or wrong answers here, it's opinions, which sometimes are held differently. Can we just agree to disagree about the effectiveness or not of past action, and look to what we might be able to do? I don't hold out much hope but, later today, I will be sending an email to the club asking them if they will, as per the minutes of the last meeting, be updating everyone before the season starts on takeover news as they promised. I hope at least to get a response and if I do I'll let you know.
I have sent CAFC an email in the last 5 minutes, asking when a) an extraordinary fans forum on the takeover will be arranged as a matter of urgency or b) a statement by senior management will placed on the official CAFC website as per the minutes of the last fans forum. If I get a response I'll let you know.
Comments
It sounds like a genuine supporter who is fed up to the back teeth of our pathetic owner.
https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/15389882.the-valley-will-not-be-turned-into-housing-says-greenwich-council-after-charlton-redevelopment-report-surfaces/
None of us want to be relegated, but if we are, the ONLY person responsible for that will be Douchbag.
Not whether a few of the boycotters didn’t bother to show up at Stoke on a Tuesday night.
He should be putting a sound business case to Roland showing why it is prudent to cut his losses and sell at a lower price. He was quite happy at the start to remind him that he did not have many years left so wanted to take the club to the premier league asap sic
Bowyer goes, players go and we get taken over. What makes you think we are then a club on the up and one which can recover.
Roland has to go, obviously. But there are worse owners out there, believe it or now.
I do of course understand the real fear under Roland is that nothing will get better, we have nothing to look forward to. Our only bit of success under him was a League 1 play off final win and there is no way that any further success is possible under him it seems.
Operating loss.Then RD sell the stadium and training ground next year.
Cheers Chizz, I'll look out for him next Saturday.... after a few beers maybe?
The team's success last season was apparently nothing to do with the paying fans.
Despite it being something of a proven cliché the 12th man makes a huge difference in motivating and lifting teams.
He suggested a blanket boycott as a last effort to get rid of Douchbag.
The 12th man can make a huge difference.
Will it, if we go through this season with what we currently have? I doubt it.
This will send a message that everything is not ok.
So who are the recipients of this message and how does this message to them, force RD to sell at a lower price ?
If you can explain how it will work, it could be a great plan.