The rise of the vegans.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

Well that's that then.

Nothing to discuss, no excuses, people who are vegans are undoubtedly insufferable, as has been demonstrated above. There can't be a discussion...

Leroy Ambrose said:

Nobody is saying that in this thread (apart from the usual trolls). And yes there is lots of evidence that moving to a primarily plant-based diet is healthier, or at least as healthy as a balanced omnivorous diet

What people take issue with is the proselytising - of which your post is a shining example. Chill out. Evangelise, by all means. But don't just shout down dissenting voices. That's what people get pissed off with, and that's what sets the 'cause' of vegetarianism back. It's the same with everything else these days - everything has to be black and white, andthisisthewayithastobeandimrightandyourewronganddeathtoeveryonewhodoesntagreewithme

Stevelamb said:

I started this thread, but it doesn’t matter now as our planet is finished.
I was to late to make a difference. Sorry for trying.

You started this thread to save the planet? Charlton life is good, but bloody hell, that's a tall ask. 

Dazzler21 said:

JaysusTheJay said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Well that's that then.

Nothing to discuss, no excuses, people who are vegans are undoubtedly insufferable, as has been demonstrated above. There can't be a discussion...

There can certainly be a discussion, if you provide evidence that eating a predominantly meat based diet isn't detrimental to the wellbeing of the planet

Admittedly I haven't gone through the whole thread, but the "sticking your head in the sand because you like a bacon sandwich" routine doesn't cut it any more, in my opinion.

Very few diets consist of "predominantly" meat.

Your post is an insufferable preachy one trying to indoctrinate others. It will not help people change their eating habits. 

Stuff like game changers, that's the trick. High quality non-preachy content that makes us as omnivores think.

Me changing my diet won't change the planet. Bullshit posts blaming meat eaters for the entirety of climate change won't change the planet.

I'm not going to give up meat, but I've already drastically  reduced the quantity of meat in my diet to improve my running. 

Not for the Planet
Certainly not for Vegans
For me. 

That's how you start the change... You appeal to the interests of people to create a message that they will relate to.

As long as the end result is the same, it's a win in my eyes

Dazzler21 said:

JaysusTheJay said:

Dazzler21 said:

JaysusTheJay said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Or a decent Vegan cheese alternative... That one is seriously needed.

JaysusTheJay said:

Dazzler21 said:

JaysusTheJay said:

Dazzler21 said:

JaysusTheJay said:

Big_Bad_World said:

Or a decent Vegan cheese alternative... That one is seriously needed.

Now that is definitely something we can agree on, all the ones I've tried are horrid

That's because they're not cheese. That really is the long and short of it, and that's not me being a d**k. It's not even 'vegan cheese' as it's not cheese. It's a plant based concoction trying to imitate cheese, at best.

They are also very highly processed, like those American plastic cheese slices, although some producers are trying to cut out the highly manufactured aspect of producing it.

JaysusTheJay said:

I've been a veggie for 10 years but am fully converting to veganism in the new year

There is just no excuse nowadays. There are extremists in EVERY part of peoples life (religion, politics, football, sex) so using that as a reason not to is ridiculous.

The science backs it up, people who predominantly eat meat are ruining the planet. There can't be a discussion...

Are you aware of the damage this lifestyle you promote also does to the environment and societies around the world? There's a few articles that help explain how intensively farming advocados has meant water shortages in certain parts of South America and even drug cartels getting in on the act, and locals in other parts not being able to afford quinao, which has been in their diet since time began, because of the hike in prices worldwide due to people following what they claim to be a sustainable way of life in some city or other in the 1st world.

*NB* I feel like I need to say this again, as it feels like I'm walking on egg shells every time I open this thread (Frre range obviously) - My argument is only with those like yourself who preach. If people would look into where their food came from and shopped accordingly, whether they ate meat or not, the world would probably see the benefits.

Again sorry if I'm repeating myself but, IMO, the most ethical and environmentally friendly way to eat meat and veg, is to grow or harvest it yourself. Obviously that isn't practical for most people so IMO, sourcing locally grown produce, including meat, is probably the next best thing. If people aren't too bothered where their beef or quinao comes from, stay as you are

Arsenetatters said:

JaysusTheJay said:

Violife is good if you want a bland, mild strength cheese slice (and who eats mild cheese apart from kids?).

I find anything more mature ends up tasting like gone off Wotsits. And don't get me started on their attempt at halloumi...

Oat milk is my personal favourite choice (it tastes like the milk you slurp down after a bowl of cereal), but protein isn't an issue for me as I get it by other means. Nut and soya milks are obviously the way to go in that regards, apart from almond milk (it splits in hot water so is useless for tea).

I like unsweetened, roasted almond milk. Great in tea but it has to be Alpro as the Sainsburys one splits 

Each but requiring over 4 litre of water to grow, and the lives of billions of bees exploited

Livestock ,(in Europe) drink naturally occuring water and it goes back into the sytem, almond farmers ship it in, creating more polution on top of the pollution it takes to ship the almond products to your local supermarket from California or some such place. But I've not got a problem with my cows milk needed water to produce it and I'm not trying to convince you to eat meat. It's you taking the moral high ground and challenging a human behaviour that is a perfectly natural thing to do. 

MrWalker said:

I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.

My point (above) entirely