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The rise of the vegans.
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MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth0
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So we all stop eating meat in the uk.JaysusTheJay said:MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth
What are we going to do about the other 99% of the world.
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Sorry but this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of farming. Are you suggesting planting orange, almond and soya plantations on UK floodplains?JaysusTheJay said:MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth
Or any crop on UK uplands, once those pesky sheep have gone?1 -
I offset my meat consumption by having never had a driving lesson and only using trains.4
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Good luck with getting a combine up here -JaysusTheJay said:MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth
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Have a look at landscape in Yunnan, plenty of farming takes places, it's possible, just requires somewhat of a rethink.MrWalker said:
Sorry but this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of farming. Are you suggesting planting orange, almond and soya plantations on UK floodplains?JaysusTheJay said:MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth
Or any crop on UK uplands, once those pesky sheep have gone?0 -
Your idea is flawed in so many respects, one being that it would render most upland agricultural land useless, due to it not being suitable for arable farming. What happens to the land below, that has been grazed on by domesticated livestock for hundreds if not thousands of year? Who's going to manage it and who's going to pay for it? -
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And if you propose letting it go to nature, or "re-wilding", Google the Oostvaardersplassen and see the problems they've had.0
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i_b_b_o_r_g said:And if you propose letting it go to nature, or "re-wilding", Google the Oostvaardersplassen and see the problems they've had.
Wasn't he one of the Danish players that signed for us in '79?
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I do drive, but I reverse home, wiping out the journey thereshine166 said:I offset my meat consumption by having never had a driving lesson and only using trains.9 - Sponsored links:
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I also have never taken a driving lesson (or even had a provisional licence).shine166 said:I offset my meat consumption by having never had a driving lesson and only using trains.
In terms of ruining the planet I wonder who is worse, a driving vegan or a meat eater that has never taken up driving?
a good 90% of what i eat and drink is produced in the UK, can the same be said with a vegan diet?
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Vegans dont drive - petrol is an animal by-product0
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Sadly whatever we eat, travel by etc will have some negative effect on the planet. I would imagine that there are many reasons people choose a vegan diet but there is the stereotype vegan, activist , eco warrior, mauve haired leftie.
I’m a vegan, find Jeremy Corbyn an arse and think the police do a good job.
Each to their own. Live according to your own ethics and don’t try and bully people into changing theirs.5 -
I've never driven (born and bred Londoner so no need), only ever done go karting twice in my whole life, if that counts...0
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Can't people have a discussion without an argument or simply posting unverified facts at one another.
A reduction in meat would allow farms to continue to use the natural landscape for meat farming, but farming would diversify.
An increase in plant based diets will reduce heart disease, cholesterol, obesity and better health.
A "Vegan" diet however can as stated involve heavily processed foods that are no better than non-vegan alternatives and often include high amounts of sugar or white flour.
We could farm more fresh meat, fruit and veg that are UK specific (not too many) to export out of the UK, whilst importing fruit and veg that do not grow naturally here.
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i_b_b_o_r_g said:Your idea is flawed in so many respects, one being that it would render most upland agricultural land useless, due to it not being suitable for arable farming. What happens to the land below, that has been grazed on by domesticated livestock for hundreds if not thousands of year? Who's going to manage it and who's going to pay for it? -
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That may well work to sustain small communities (who are still eatimg meat btw), and for the small holders to take their produce (veg) to market once a week, but if we all see the light and knock meat on the head, we'll need crops and veg on an industrial scale.
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The grapes they grow here are grown on similar terrain, but we can't all live on grapes once all the cows and sheep are extinct0
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I am well aware they still eat meat, I spend a lot of time in rural China, but that's not the only land we have access to in the UK, I'm just pointing out that nothing is impossible if we put our minds to it. I also eat meat but have been trying to cut down where I can, replacing a lot of my meat with fish, which sadly is not really any ethically better.0
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I don't know what to say then mate.0
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Except it's not practically possible in the UK.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Have a look at landscape in Yunnan, plenty of farming takes places, it's possible, just requires somewhat of a rethink.MrWalker said:
Sorry but this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of farming. Are you suggesting planting orange, almond and soya plantations on UK floodplains?JaysusTheJay said:MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth
Or any crop on UK uplands, once those pesky sheep have gone?
We cant protect flood plains in the way China has, and it wouldnt be good for the planet if we constructed our own versions of the Three Gorges or the Yangste Flood Action Plan.
Do they also pick up every plant from the floodplains whenever it floods? The crop losses (and associated effect of so much waste on the climate) certainly wont be easier to sustain than herding the animals off the increasing amount of flat land that floods that happens at present.
We have sheep on the top of Welsh hills and cows on flood plains for a reason.
The massively labour intensive farming that you suggest is the future, barely produces produce surplus to feed everyone on a local scale.
The solution is to have 3 billion less humans, then we could all turn against the natural insticts that led us all out of the Omo Valley, and become vegan.2 -
3 billion less.MrWalker said:
Except it's not practically possible in the UK.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Have a look at landscape in Yunnan, plenty of farming takes places, it's possible, just requires somewhat of a rethink.MrWalker said:
Sorry but this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of farming. Are you suggesting planting orange, almond and soya plantations on UK floodplains?JaysusTheJay said:MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth
Or any crop on UK uplands, once those pesky sheep have gone?
We cant protect flood plains in the way China has, and it wouldnt be good for the planet if we constructed our own versions of the Three Gorges or the Yangste Flood Action Plan.
Do they also pick up every plant from the floodplains whenever it floods? The crop losses (and associated effect of so much waste on the climate) certainly wont be easier to sustain than herding the animals off the increasing amount of flat land that floods that happens at present.
We have sheep on the top of Welsh hills and cows on flood plains for a reason.
The massively labour intensive farming that you suggest is the future, barely produces produce surplus to feed everyone on a local scale.
The solution is to have 3 billion less humans, then we could all turn against the natural insticts that led us all out of the Omo Valley, and become vegan.
I see earlier the world population will jump from 7.7 billion to over 11 billion by 21000 -
“Often the argument is made that going vegan would minimise land use, and the modelling studies that have been done demonstrate that that’s not the case." - Prof. Geoff Simm, Director of Global Academy Agriculture and Food Security, University of Edingburgh, 27/11/2019
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/11/27/meat-crucial-feeding-planet-going-vegan-not-green-say-scientists/?fbclid=IwAR1XU4BZpFAPJDwCKGmAP4xRn9-3Q6ww2ZsHHzffl1HvpO3iv10UQda4nfI#
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The Government recently invited comments from the public and interested organisations regarding a National Food Strategy for the UK. Animal Rebellion - a sister organisation of Extinction Rebellion - responded with the following paper.
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Anny - is there a size limit as to what you dont like being killed for food?0
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Dont worry -it will all be fine if we stop eating locally produced meat.clb74 said:
3 billion less.MrWalker said:
Except it's not practically possible in the UK.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Have a look at landscape in Yunnan, plenty of farming takes places, it's possible, just requires somewhat of a rethink.MrWalker said:
Sorry but this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of farming. Are you suggesting planting orange, almond and soya plantations on UK floodplains?JaysusTheJay said:MrWalker said:I hope some consideration will be given to the role of food miles to the conversation. The climate impact of importing soya and almonds compared to locally produced beef, pork etc.If we stopped farming animals, we'd have ample space for these alternatives plus greenland for natural growth
Or any crop on UK uplands, once those pesky sheep have gone?
We cant protect flood plains in the way China has, and it wouldnt be good for the planet if we constructed our own versions of the Three Gorges or the Yangste Flood Action Plan.
Do they also pick up every plant from the floodplains whenever it floods? The crop losses (and associated effect of so much waste on the climate) certainly wont be easier to sustain than herding the animals off the increasing amount of flat land that floods that happens at present.
We have sheep on the top of Welsh hills and cows on flood plains for a reason.
The massively labour intensive farming that you suggest is the future, barely produces produce surplus to feed everyone on a local scale.
The solution is to have 3 billion less humans, then we could all turn against the natural insticts that led us all out of the Omo Valley, and become vegan.
I see earlier the world population will jump from 7.7 billion to over 11 billion by 21000 -
Size? It's irrelevant. If it has a face, I won't eat it.1
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Aphids have faces.1
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So do deer, pigeon, carrion and rabbits, and I shot thousands protecting crops. All edible got eaten0
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Well done, Einstein. Go to bed.3
