Charlton Athletic v Huddersfield Town | Tues 10 December | Post-match views

Viewfinder said:

golfaddick said:

BBC stats says that we had no shots on target.....but seeing as we had a goal disallowed then that is not strictly true. 

As they say......you can stick your stats up your arse.

BBC stats seem correct to me.  If the ref blows for a foul and in frustration a player hammers the ball to an empty net, you aren't going to count that as a shot on target!

There's no foul. And there's no offside.

Vennings carries the ball towards the byeline and pulls it back to Purrington ..... Vennings not offside because he played the ball back. Then he runs off the pitch.

Purrington shoots ...... at the moment the ball is played, neither Sarr or Taylor are in an offside position as there appears to be 2 defenders in line just nearer the goal ...... and the ball played/deflects off Huddersfield number 27 towards Sarr.

Ball last played by a defender, no offside in any case.

Sarr heads the ball across and Taylor, onside ..... glances the ball into the net. There's no foul there either but we clearly hear the whistle blow after the ball crosses the goal line.

Why? If the linesman flagged for offside, he's made a mistake. It's clear from the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZAfJWNZQQE

Oggy Red said:

Viewfinder said:

golfaddick said:

BBC stats says that we had no shots on target.....but seeing as we had a goal disallowed then that is not strictly true. 

As they say......you can stick your stats up your arse.

BBC stats seem correct to me.  If the ref blows for a foul and in frustration a player hammers the ball to an empty net, you aren't going to count that as a shot on target!

There's no foul. And there's no offside.

Vennings carries the ball towards the byeline and pulls it back to Purrington ..... Vennings not offside because he played the ball back. Then he runs off the pitch.

Purrington shoots ...... at the moment the ball is played, neither Sarr or Taylor are in an offside position as there appears to be 2 defenders in line just nearer the goal ...... and the ball played/deflects off Huddersfield number 27 towards Sarr.

Ball last played by a defender, no offside in any case.

Sarr heads the ball across and Taylor, onside ..... glances the ball into the net. There's no foul there either but we clearly hear the whistle blow after the ball crosses the goal line.

Why? If the linesman flagged for offside, he's made a mistake. It's clear from the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZAfJWNZQQE

Are you sure the deflection to Sarr was by a Huddersfield player?  Looked liked Taylor to me, in which case it was offside.

Grapevine49 said:

I will try to be measured in my response because I am almost at the point of asking site Admin to consider opening two Post Match threads - one for Those In Touch with reality henceforth to be known as TITS and those who seem to be under the influence of mind altering substances  henceforth to be known as DRAWS or the Depository for Random Asinine Whinges

So, so many of the comments read like someone sitting in the proverbial Ivory Tower who had never been near a team sports clubhouse in their lives.

I am reminded of Area Sales Offices reports on failing sales targets from people who could not sell an umbrella in a rainstorm. Having worked at the sharp end for much of my career I enjoyed my "2 down tours" speaking to staff about the issues they faced. The blundering back tracking from line managers was a sight to behold. The message was simple you do not hit your sales targets if you do not invest in your staff.

No one is arguing the performances are good enough but can we please, please have some perspective here.

The Middlesboro game "was a physically & mentally tired and lethargic performance". Was it in character with all we have seen before? No.

I do not doubt any "in ground" body language interpretation but there are only so many times you can ask players "to go to the well" before performances suffer. The "in game" descriptions position the confusion perfectly = NEW Central defence pairing, 2 NEW players in a midfield four - NEW 2nd half attack where Leko & Bonne had lived off scraps for weeks.

With any game I accept people have paid good money and thus can have their say but please look beyond some of the simplistic interpretations on offer before turning it all into a major crisis. Such performances for me were only a matter of time. If they open a few eyes then so much the better.

I love the idea our redemption lies with Doughty a 19yr old talented midfield player after just 3 games at left back and Morgan a 19yr old talented midfield player who when physically targeted has the habit of disappearing. Morgan is a talent but as per the play offs is too easily shut down and will cost you goals. Does it not occur the lads were available for loans to every League 1 & 2 club? Why were they at Bromley and Ebbsfleet?

We operate today with 2 functioning "in game" managers.  Pratley and Pearce are struggling. I am not sure either has the legs to be effective for successive multiple games. Pratley made just 3 starts in the last 1/3rd of last season. Pearce has started just over 1/2 of League starts in the past 3 seasons. Ledley might be another but just played his first 45mins for a year. Taylor is another but just played his first 80mins in 3 months.

Who else do you expect to step in to change things up? Morgan? Doughty? Gallagher? Leko? Bonne?

Does anyone challenge the factors I outlined after Middlesboro? A response of "Yes, but" doesn't cut it. Yes but what? Because people have paid good money does not mean their comments cannot be challenged.

The entire background to the past 18 months progress was summed up perfectly by Taylors' comment to Bowyer having left the Wembley pitch. His words.....  "How the fuck did you get us promoted?" Look at the post match interviews with Bauer and Bielik.

The step up to Championship presents us with a marathon. After the remedial work needed in the close season key signings have barely been able to kick a ball in weeks meaning we have lived off youthful industry, exuberance & talent. Youthful industry, exuberance and inexperienced talent have a Championship shelf life. Opposing coaches work out new players & new teams and have the talent to pose different challenges.

Ladies & Gentlemen I list 29 names for you to work with - you work it out. Your starting point is a squad which after an exceptional half season achieved promotion via the play offs. You have no money and are operating with the lowest budget in the Championship where agents and clubs are dismissing your offers.

Headline 1 we had a L1 defence, lost 3 key players from the run in - Djiksteel, Bauer & Bielik. As of today?

1. Phillips - First Full Season in Championship (FFSC) after securing No1 spot for 1/2 a season in League 1
2. Amos - Experienced keeper currently - OUT
3. Maynard Brewer - FFSC - No senior experience
4. Solly - Capable defensive full back - Manages a significant injury profile
5. Purrington - FFSC - Capable L1 fullback signed from Rotherham
6. Page - FFSC - Capable L1 full back - Carries significant injury profile - OUT
7. Lockyer - FFSC - Very capable L1 defender - Bosman transfer from Bristol Rovers
8. Pearce - Combative defender - Manages notable injury profile
9. Sarr - FFSC - Disappointing career - Established himself as capable L1 defender last season
10. Oshilaja - FFSC- Capable L1 utility defender
11. Matthews - Capable experienced full back - Signed off the street.

In the last 3 seasons we have spent just £95k on one defender who remains with the club

Headline 2 we had a L1 midfield where Cullen, Aribo & Bielik excelled, embellished by sundry cameo performances by Williams lost 2 key players from the run in - Aribo & Bielik

In 21 League games this season we have used 14 players in midfield

12. Pratley - Veteran aged 34 - an experienced enforcer who excelled in the play offs
13. Kayal - Experienced Championship player signed deadline day - Has barely featured due to injury - OUT
14. Field - Championship squad player signed on loan - Has sustained medium term injury - OUT
15. Aneke - FFSC- Suffered continuing injuries - OUT
16. Cullen - FFSC - Key player in each of the last 2 seasons - Has sustained medium term injury - OUT
17. Lapslie -FFSC - Useful L1 squad player - Has sustained medium injury - OUT
18. Williams - Exemplary Championship creative talent - Significant injury profile - OUT
19. Oztumer - Creative L1 talent - Has sustained short/ medium injury - OUT
20. Gallagher - FFSC - Impressive young talent in first full season
21. Morgan - FFSC - Promising creative young talent who can be too easily dominated
22. Ledley - Experienced capable Championship player - Signed off the street after nearly a year out
23. Doughty - FFSC - Played 3 senior games
Oshilaja - See above
24. Vennings - FFSC - Played 2 senior games

In the last 3 seasons we have spent just £0k on midfield players who remain with the club

Headline 3 we had a L1 attack focused on 2 key assets - Taylor & Grant - Grant left in January 2019

As of today

25. Taylor - FFSC - Talisman - has just missed 14 games - is on a restricted return programme
26. Bonne - FFSC - Emerging talent - just stepped out of the National League
27. Hemed - Experienced Championship player signed deadline day - Has barely featured due to injury - OUT
28. Leko - FFSC -  Championship squad player signed on loan - No senior league starts in 18/19 season 
29. Davison - FFSC - Non league forward - 3 substitute appearances

In the last 3 seasons we have spent just £200k on attack players who remain with the club

- 18 of the squad with little or no senior experience of the Championship.  It is a step up in speed of play, thought and intensity for 65% of staff driving new physical & mental demands and new workloads. Scale & scope of injuries with the extra demands of ever changing formats & faces further increases workloads. It is not just a challenge for today. If not managed the squad faces complete burn out in January.

- 6 of the remainder are out injured

- 2 of the remainder were signed off the street

- 15 of the senior squad had no senior pre season.

- 2 established Championship players were acquired close season starting 4 out of 37 games

- 27 out of 29 names are currently carrying performance risk factors.

In terms of recent results Callum nailed it. The defensive framework starts with a midfield decimated by injury. In attack if you have to consistently rely on 3 players who made not a single league starts in the EFL in 2018/19 for your goal threat you are going to lose games by a single goal.

It is the Gudmundsson, Vetokele, Holmes syndrome all over again.

Until injured players are fully back opposing sides can just target Gallagher to shut us down.

M. Duchatelet is not responsible for any injury over the past 6 years. He is entirely responsible for short changing every manager employed in empowering them with the appropriate resource to manage the situation.

Every short cut comes with a risk be it injury profile, no pre season, ageing players, no relevant experience, over reliance on youth players. Mr Bowyer had the temerity to win a promotion despite such restrictions. I have no idea if he can continue to progress the club within the confines of the resources available. His work to this point has been there for all to see and been largely acclaimed across the industry.

No manager gets it right all the time but that anyone does not recognise the challenges to then position the manager and his staff as failing says significantly more about them than Mr Bowyer.

Lash out if you must but there is no magic remedy here. There is no miracle solution. There is no magnificent formation to cure all ills. The job is to get your head down keep working hard supporting each other until injured players return or new additions can arrive in January. I do not see any player running away from the challenge. In fact I see some trying too hard to compensate.

I for one respect and applaud such effort.

The critical extension/ projections beyond the performances against Middlesboro & Huddersfield serve absolutely no one.

Despite the undoubted and consistent quality of @Grapevine49’s writings on here, their length often means that I give up well before the end. But this analysis is bang on the money and had me hooked. Watching EFL highlights show on quest last night, it is clear that we are not the only side to be suffering with copious injuries (although I’m not denying that our situation is way worse than most). Wigan pretty much gave West Brom the runaround last night without their entire first choice defence and would have won but for a bizarre goalkeeping mistake - if you haven’t seen it watch it. It’s hilarious. Our problem, as Grapevine has highlighted, is that even at full strength we would be fielding a team with, at most, three players who are beyond argument up to top championship level on paper at the start of the season.   Of those three (Kayal, Hemed and Williams), two might as well not have been here and the other’s brilliance is matched only by his brittleness.  (Gallagher was an unknown punt and even Lyle was unproven at this level). We can now I think safely say that Messrs Gallagher, Taylor, Cullen and, I’d wager, Phillips and Field are up to it too. The rest are league one standard or approaching past it (even though in Pratley‘s case he’s playing out of his skin).   So, at any point in time given even average injury luck, we would be fielding at least half a team that would struggle in any event beyond the lower reaches over the course of a full season (don’t forget that even during our good run we won a couple of games against Brentford and Leeds Where we got mullered for 90 mins)  That to me shows just what miracles Bowyer has been working. 

msomerton said:

Bowyer is struggling and should be seeking advice from experienced managers, he has no idea how to get the best out of this weak squad. If the take over does occur it will be to late to save the team from relegation to league 1, because by January 2 the team will be 4-6 pts in the relegation zone.

Over the last couple of days I have seen the keyboard warriors, many of whom were not at the game, come out and  badmouth Bowyer. Some of these may be old  enough to be the same people who bad mouthed Curbs  because we were not in Europe and some who cheered when Powell was dismissed by the incoming "billionaire" Roland. 

I try to ignore all of them because  they are patently talking nonsense. Teams can get out of the relegation zone after Christmas and we certainly wont be bottom. We have had an injury crisis and with playing youngsters in midfield  have had difficulty  creating chances for strikers, like Bonne and even Taylor when he came on, and exposing the defence. When we have some of the injuries back, Williams, Cullen, Oztumer we will be able to create more. The stress that puts on other parts of the team meant we were doing well to hold on to a draw until  Taylor came on and were then subject to some outrageous decisions by the East Stand Lino.  Then taken by a sucker punch because of Solly's one mistake of the evening.

I may be a glass half full person but  we should remember we beat Leeds at home  so should Bowyer be taking advice from an experienced manager like Bielsa???

Was I angry when I left on Tuesday night, to damn right I was,  but I put the blame where it belongs, on the paucity of resources given to the management team by our current owner. There is a lot to look forward to but I will look back in anger at what Roland has done to our club andwhat  some unrealistic, short sighted, short termists are saying at the moment

harveys_gardener said:

Oggy and others, who is Naby meant to be marking Tuesday, do you have insight into Bows briefings? Do we mtm or zonal mark? Not sure as a STH I know.

My comments were based on the highlights video ....... looks like it's initially zonal marking, then degenerates into indecision, before trying to man mark a split second too late.

I don't want to be too hard on Naby, because I think in a strong team he has a lot to offer.
But there seems to be at times uncertainty in his mind when to pick up aplayer.

 BTW Pearce, when he's backpedalling, maybe sometimes shows the same hesitation and uncertainty?
Perhaps they're not comfortable with some aspects of the defensive system?

Or even that currently their uncertainty is being caused  being sometimes exposed by lack of midfield protection?