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Is the season going to finish? (ed. Pg.53 - 3 players not returned to training)
Comments
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If they had a point system based on cnut owners i suggest we would be right up there...4
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Yes, we would have two points and that would put us top of the league.0
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Our next game was against Hull, probably a winner takes all game, as if we won I could see Hull staying in the bottom 3 for the rest of the season, whereas if they won, I think we'd be doomed.Oggy Red said:Just thinking about the PPG proposal ....... it doesn't take account of the remaining fixtures where 2 promotion seeking clubs, or 2 relegation fighting clubs are still to play each other in a "6-pointer" ..... i.e. they can't both win.
Sure the fixture could be drawn and a point gained by each side, which would satisfy PPG averages - but if these fixtures were actually played, the chances are that one side would win, impacting the table and affecting other similarly placed clubs in a significant way.
The one certainty is the table would be different than how it reads today.
In plain English, in my opinion PPG makes a mockery of the season.
Better to void it completely, if it can't be properly played out to fulfillment.
Momentum is such a crucial aspect at this time of the season, something which all PPG systems don't take into account
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Very true. If they re-started the season and we won that game and they had to end it again, correct me if I'm wrong, but we would have been safe. I think we have more chance now than we did when the game was scheduled btw. We are in a state off the pitch, but without injuries, we can put out a decent enough side until the end of June.killerandflash said:
Our next game was against Hull, probably a winner takes all game, as if we won I could see Hull staying in the bottom 3 for the rest of the season, whereas if they won, I think we'd be doomed.Oggy Red said:Just thinking about the PPG proposal ....... it doesn't take account of the remaining fixtures where 2 promotion seeking clubs, or 2 relegation fighting clubs are still to play each other in a "6-pointer" ..... i.e. they can't both win.
Sure the fixture could be drawn and a point gained by each side, which would satisfy PPG averages - but if these fixtures were actually played, the chances are that one side would win, impacting the table and affecting other similarly placed clubs in a significant way.
The one certainty is the table would be different than how it reads today.
In plain English, in my opinion PPG makes a mockery of the season.
Better to void it completely, if it can't be properly played out to fulfillment.
Momentum is such a crucial aspect at this time of the season, something which all PPG systems don't take into account1 -
It's just the TV money, of course ...... clubs running scared of being made to pay it back under legal challenge from TV companies.
They are prepared to risk the health of their players, staff (and families) in order to preserve their TV income.
The Division 2 clubs have already indicated they are considering voiding the season, on the basis that most of them can't afford to complete their fixtures without spectator income. TV money is only a few crumbs off the table for them.
And that's before adding the cost of virus testing, isolation hotels, etc.
If the EFL is so desperate to conclude the season, then prepare to re-start it in place of the 2020-21 season.
And starting at Christmas, have a pre-agreed and approved mini-League or whatever, so that football can continue to be played next winter and spring.
That's assuming that it will by then be safe to do so.
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To make comparison for PPG purposes, just had a glance at League One tables from last season, 2018-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47424640
Could only trace back to 36 matches played, but nearest comparison:
1) Luton ......... 76
2) Barnsley ..... 73
Both teams promoted in that order. Automatic promotion places not affected by PPG.
3) Sunderland ..... 69
4) Portsmouth ..... 65
5) Charlton .......... 63
6) Doncaster ........ 55
All 4 clubs qualified for play offs, but Charlton finshed 3rd, with 88 points.
Sure, Charlton won the playoffs and therefore promoted ..... but under PPG would have finished 5th and played Portsmouth 4th.
No guarantee whatsoever that we'd have beaten Portsmouth over both legs - and gone through to the Wembley final.
And if the playoffs had been dispensed with, and instead the 3rd club automatically promoted - it would have been Sunderland promoted under PPG.
In the League relegation places, both Oxford and Wimbledon escaped relegation: in fact, we see Wimbledon in bottom place on 33 points, 7 points behind safety with a vastly inferior GD.
They escaped to safety over 46 matches. And so did Oxford. But both would have been relegated under PPG.
PPG is fraud ..... and frequently does not reflect the likely outcome of the fulfilled scheduled season.
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Surely voiding is an even bigger cop out..... or does ppg simply not work for us as well as others?Oggy Red said:
Yep, you're right there, Muttley.MuttleyCAFC said:PPG is a complete cop out.
In practice, might as well have it finished it after 23 games or even 10.
Just as nonsensical. And just as unfair.
Or just void it.Priority one is have a club full stop I fear....0 -
Voiding the season is the option if you can't find a way of finishing it. It isn't a cop out but a regrettable consequence of the virus if it prevents you from playing the games you need to to complete the season.2
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It's not just about Charlton, is it?DamoNorthStand said:
Surely voiding is an even bigger cop out..... or does ppg simply not work for us as well as others?Oggy Red said:
Yep, you're right there, Muttley.MuttleyCAFC said:PPG is a complete cop out.
In practice, might as well have it finished it after 23 games or even 10.
Just as nonsensical. And just as unfair.
Or just void it.Priority one is have a club full stop I fear....
As you can see in my example, if PPG had been applied to last season's League One after 36 matches (posted above), both Oxford and Wimbledon would have been relegated under PPG ..... and both escaped to safety having completed the season after 46 matches.
And Charlton may not have been promoted.
Voiding a bigger cop out? Either the season 'never happened' ..... or it's resumed only when it's safe to do so.
Even if it means voiding season 2020-21.
Maybe that's the correct solution?
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If you look at a completed table and PPG produces a different outcome, as has been shown above, it is ridiculous.1
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Voiding next season is certainly fairerOggy Red said:
It's not just about Charlton, is it?DamoNorthStand said:
Surely voiding is an even bigger cop out..... or does ppg simply not work for us as well as others?Oggy Red said:
Yep, you're right there, Muttley.MuttleyCAFC said:PPG is a complete cop out.
In practice, might as well have it finished it after 23 games or even 10.
Just as nonsensical. And just as unfair.
Or just void it.Priority one is have a club full stop I fear....
As you can see in my example, if PPG had been applied to last season's League One after 36 matches (posted above), both Oxford and Wimbledon would have been relegated under PPG ..... and both escaped to safety having completed the season after 46 matches.
And Charlton may not have been promoted.
Voiding a bigger cop out? Either the season 'never happened' ..... or it's resumed only when it's safe to do so.
Even if it means voiding season 2020-21.
Maybe that's the correct solution?2 -
Maybe the onus should be on people thinking PPG is a good idea, for them to furnish us with some completed tables where the outcome remained the same. If this can't be done, you are almost certainly wrongly (which by definition is unfairly) promoting and relegating some teams.
As has been said, PPG at an equivalent stage last season, would have meant two league 1 clubs being relegated wrongly and one club would have been promoted wrongly. That is pretty significant.1 -
It's a fraud for 1 main reason.......irs based on past performance & takes no account of future games, form, who you have yet to play etc.Oggy Red said:To make comparison for PPG purposes, just had a glance at League One tables from last season, 2018-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47424640
Could only trace back to 36 matches played, but nearest comparison:
1) Luton ......... 76
2) Barnsley ..... 73
Both teams promoted in that order. Automatic promotion places not affected by PPG.
3) Sunderland ..... 69
4) Portsmouth ..... 65
5) Charlton .......... 63
6) Doncaster ........ 55
All 4 clubs qualified for play offs, but Charlton finshed 3rd, with 88 points.
Sure, Charlton won the playoffs and therefore promoted ..... but under PPG would have finished 5th and played Portsmouth 4th.
No guarantee whatsoever that we'd have beaten Portsmouth over both legs - and gone through to the Wembley final.
And if the playoffs had been dispensed with, and instead the 3rd club automatically promoted - it would have been Sunderland promoted under PPG.
In the League relegation places, both Oxford and Wimbledon escaped relegation: in fact, we see Wimbledon in bottom place on 33 points, 7 points behind safety with a vastly inferior GD.
They escaped to safety over 46 matches. And so did Oxford. But both would have been relegated under PPG.
PPG is fraud ..... and frequently does not reflect the likely outcome of the fulfilled scheduled season.
If football was based purely on past performance then betting shops & the pools companies would be out of business.
End this farce now.8 -
Money before lives, football stinks.golfaddick said:
It's a fraud for 1 main reason.......irs based on past performance & takes no account of future games, form, who you have yet to play etc.Oggy Red said:To make comparison for PPG purposes, just had a glance at League One tables from last season, 2018-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47424640
Could only trace back to 36 matches played, but nearest comparison:
1) Luton ......... 76
2) Barnsley ..... 73
Both teams promoted in that order. Automatic promotion places not affected by PPG.
3) Sunderland ..... 69
4) Portsmouth ..... 65
5) Charlton .......... 63
6) Doncaster ........ 55
All 4 clubs qualified for play offs, but Charlton finshed 3rd, with 88 points.
Sure, Charlton won the playoffs and therefore promoted ..... but under PPG would have finished 5th and played Portsmouth 4th.
No guarantee whatsoever that we'd have beaten Portsmouth over both legs - and gone through to the Wembley final.
And if the playoffs had been dispensed with, and instead the 3rd club automatically promoted - it would have been Sunderland promoted under PPG.
In the League relegation places, both Oxford and Wimbledon escaped relegation: in fact, we see Wimbledon in bottom place on 33 points, 7 points behind safety with a vastly inferior GD.
They escaped to safety over 46 matches. And so did Oxford. But both would have been relegated under PPG.
PPG is fraud ..... and frequently does not reflect the likely outcome of the fulfilled scheduled season.
If football was based purely on past performance then betting shops & the pools companies would be out of business.
End this farce now.3 -
PPG is fine but there has to be a minimum amount of games - 46 maybe.7
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Looks like Howard Wilkinson is not overly sympathetic towards Bowyers views on this.0
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robinofottershaw said:Looks like Howard Wilkinson is not overly sympathetic towards Bowyers views on this.
At 76 years of age the geezer should be enjoying his last years playing golf, not 'working'.
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It would be interesting if it was discovered that Boro fielded an illegible player against us.0
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Send that to the EFL Oggy. Excellent argument.Oggy Red said:To make comparison for PPG purposes, just had a glance at League One tables from last season, 2018-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47424640
Could only trace back to 36 matches played, but nearest comparison:
1) Luton ......... 76
2) Barnsley ..... 73
Both teams promoted in that order. Automatic promotion places not affected by PPG.
3) Sunderland ..... 69
4) Portsmouth ..... 65
5) Charlton .......... 63
6) Doncaster ........ 55
All 4 clubs qualified for play offs, but Charlton finshed 3rd, with 88 points.
Sure, Charlton won the playoffs and therefore promoted ..... but under PPG would have finished 5th and played Portsmouth 4th.
No guarantee whatsoever that we'd have beaten Portsmouth over both legs - and gone through to the Wembley final.
And if the playoffs had been dispensed with, and instead the 3rd club automatically promoted - it would have been Sunderland promoted under PPG.
In the League relegation places, both Oxford and Wimbledon escaped relegation: in fact, we see Wimbledon in bottom place on 33 points, 7 points behind safety with a vastly inferior GD.
They escaped to safety over 46 matches. And so did Oxford. But both would have been relegated under PPG.
PPG is fraud ..... and frequently does not reflect the likely outcome of the fulfilled scheduled season.1 -
I don’t think they will void next season, they don’t even want to void this one.DamoNorthStand said:
Voiding next season is certainly fairerOggy Red said:
It's not just about Charlton, is it?DamoNorthStand said:
Surely voiding is an even bigger cop out..... or does ppg simply not work for us as well as others?Oggy Red said:
Yep, you're right there, Muttley.MuttleyCAFC said:PPG is a complete cop out.
In practice, might as well have it finished it after 23 games or even 10.
Just as nonsensical. And just as unfair.
Or just void it.Priority one is have a club full stop I fear....
As you can see in my example, if PPG had been applied to last season's League One after 36 matches (posted above), both Oxford and Wimbledon would have been relegated under PPG ..... and both escaped to safety having completed the season after 46 matches.
And Charlton may not have been promoted.
Voiding a bigger cop out? Either the season 'never happened' ..... or it's resumed only when it's safe to do so.
Even if it means voiding season 2020-21.
Maybe that's the correct solution?0 - Sponsored links:
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When is next season due to start?0
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There is no fair way to complete this season now, it’s already been compromised you could argue by the situation, but clearly everyone needs to be open to compromise to address this situation given it’s severity and bigger picture.
Order of least unfair options is clear to me.
1 - finish the season if at all possible, but without rule changes which IMO would too greatly compromise the integrity. Playing out behind closed doors is fair enough, not ideal but fair enough. Neutral venues, shorter halves, avoid tackling, contracts expiring and not being able to continue etc is all too far and bordering shambolic.2 - agree to end the season with promotions awarded, possibly on a points per game system, but no relegations imposed. So probably 22 team Prem essentially.
3 - if for some reason 2 is not considered appropriate, most likely because of the ridiculous greed/ short sightedness of the Prem, then the season has to be avoided.You simply cannot pause the season at a random moment and impose relegation on teams who have not been relegated.
Whilst it would be an incredible piece of luck for Southend and Bolton, across the majority it would be grossly unfair when the season which all clubs signed up to has not been completed.I will accept relegation if we go down fairly and squarely, and if it happens it’s the fault of the various c***s in the world who have somehow had their mits on us across the course of the season and we have to live with that. But you cannot relegate somebody on this random basis.5 -
Sadly, if you accept that this season will not be played out, the writing is now on the wall; it’s gonna be points per game and good night Charlton. When you look back on this club’s recent history, can you think of anywhere as unlucky as us? If it wasn’t so tragic, it would be laughable to see us falling into the relegation zone (for the one and only occasion this season) the week before a global pandemic.
You really could not write it, could ya?!4 -
One way to keep more people happy would be to void the season other than the current top two in the championship go up, no relegations in any division and the top 4 in each division from L1 go up. That will increase the number of teams in each division and give additional guaranteed league games to generate some extra revenue.
have no replays for any cup competition, no extra time, just penalties after 90 minutes if it’s a draw in normal time. Allow teams to agree to switch venue for any reason (revenue, weather, etc) when the draw is made. no restrictions on playing reserves and youth team players in cup matches.2 -
At least in league one it won't be as embarrassing when we play the under 11s, we might even stay up.1
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This situation where we have been in the bottom 3 for one game,I believe is very similar to our season in the prem when we last won the play against Sunderland and was only in the bottom 3 for one game.
the following season they came up as we went down,really spooky as this could happen again.0 -
I don't think that was the case as we lost to Sheffield Wednesday but even a win wouldn't have kept us up. If I'm remembering correctly.thickandthin63 said:This situation where we have been in the bottom 3 for one game,I believe is very similar to our season in the prem when we last won the play against Sunderland and was only in the bottom 3 for one game.
the following season they came up as we went down,really spooky as this could happen again.1 -
That is correct, because Southampton won easily that day.Croydon said:
I don't think that was the case as we lost to Sheffield Wednesday but even a win wouldn't have kept us up. If I'm remembering correctly.thickandthin63 said:This situation where we have been in the bottom 3 for one game,I believe is very similar to our season in the prem when we last won the play against Sunderland and was only in the bottom 3 for one game.
the following season they came up as we went down,really spooky as this could happen again.0 -
Also Mills's goal at Villa stopped us going down that day didn't it?
We were in trouble from the run of 8 losses in a row or whatever it was over winter.4 -
I remember that win giving us great hope at the time, only to discover that Southampton had won away at Wimbledon, keeping them two points ahead of us going into the last game.North Lower Neil said:Also Mills's goal at Villa stopped us going down that day didn't it?
We were in trouble from the run of 8 losses in a row or whatever it was over winter.0
