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Charlton v Millwall | Fri 03 Jul 2020| Post-match thread
Comments
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At the moment it's horses for courses, points are more important than performances and that means playing to our strengths. The Sheffield Wednesday pre lockdown game is not relevant especially in the present circumstances where we are weaker in attack thanks to a certain individual downing tools.Leuth said:
The Sheffield Wednesday game was another 'tactical masterclass' where he basically went all bunker-mentality when the opposition were there for the taking. The Charlton way. We, as a club, need a therapistkillerandflash said:
Massively surprised. It wasn't as if we were being overrun in central midfield at the timeThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
I can only assume that with Pratley playing as an additional CB, he wanted 2 defensive minded midfielders in front of the back 3, but to me it sent completely the wrong message out to Millwall
Hindsight is also a wonderful thing and we nearly got a point out of the game on Friday which could have been three had it not been for a lapse at the back and wastefulness up top.
Tomorrow night's game with Brentford is certainly not the time to go all gung ho. The three games after that will give us the opportunity to be a bit more expansive but I still don't think Bowyer will deviate too far from his tactics of gaining points of the back of a defensively minded game plan. If it gets us to safety, that's all that matters and in Bowyer I still trust.1 -
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.0 -
This, AM was identified by the spanners as our most likely and they got stuck in - both spanner first half bookings were for assault with intent on the young lad. I imagine he's still picking Cooper's studs out of his thigh. "Referee" Whitestone's meek complicity in the spanners' egregious conduct was nauseating.ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.3 -
My memory might be playing tricks but weren't we down to the likes of Dempsey and Davison in the starting XI at the time of the Sheffield Wednesday match?Leuth said:
The Sheffield Wednesday game was another 'tactical masterclass' where he basically went all bunker-mentality when the opposition were there for the taking. The Charlton way. We, as a club, need a therapistkillerandflash said:
Massively surprised. It wasn't as if we were being overrun in central midfield at the timeThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
I can only assume that with Pratley playing as an additional CB, he wanted 2 defensive minded midfielders in front of the back 3, but to me it sent completely the wrong message out to Millwall
Away from home too so I can understand the thinking of aiming not to lose and it would have worked but for the Charlton Curse of referees adding 10 minutes whenever Charlton are hanging on by a thread.0 -
Not sure whether it was was the game at the Valley or Hilsborough Len. At home was Mouthall's first appearance and we lost 3-1 with only 5 subs on the bench, Vennings and Davison came on as 2nd half subs. The away game in February was a stronger squad which we lost in time added on Fletcher scoring their winner. It's easy to say the game was there for the taking when we've lost late on but with the run we had been on since October, I too get why not getting beat away from home would have been in Bowyer thinking.LenGlover said:
My memory might be playing tricks but weren't we down to the likes of Dempsey and Davison in the starting XI at the time of the Sheffield Wednesday match?Leuth said:
The Sheffield Wednesday game was another 'tactical masterclass' where he basically went all bunker-mentality when the opposition were there for the taking. The Charlton way. We, as a club, need a therapistkillerandflash said:
Massively surprised. It wasn't as if we were being overrun in central midfield at the timeThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
I can only assume that with Pratley playing as an additional CB, he wanted 2 defensive minded midfielders in front of the back 3, but to me it sent completely the wrong message out to Millwall
Away from home too so I can understand the thinking of aiming not to lose and it would have worked but for the Charlton Curse of referees adding 10 minutes whenever Charlton are hanging on by a thread.0 -
The away game of course, the home game was a noble effort in adversity0
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That was a disgrace. Got what we deserved in stoppage time. Millwall away is another example, we had them under pressure and then switched it up and just invited attack for the last ten minutes.Leuth said:
The Sheffield Wednesday game was another 'tactical masterclass' where he basically went all bunker-mentality when the opposition were there for the taking. The Charlton way. We, as a club, need a therapistkillerandflash said:
Massively surprised. It wasn't as if we were being overrun in central midfield at the timeThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
I can only assume that with Pratley playing as an additional CB, he wanted 2 defensive minded midfielders in front of the back 3, but to me it sent completely the wrong message out to Millwall1 -
Having looked at the goal again and whether Phillips is solely at fault, it is clear that when Mahoney shoots Cooper is actually outside the penalty box whereas Lockyer is on the edge of the six yard box. At the point when Phillips parries it, Cooper is still further away from the ball than Lockyer.
I was going to say that this is a typical example of how a forward is pro-active in anticipating the keeper fumbling the ball whereas a defender tends to be reactive. Only problem with saying that is that Cooper is a defender of course!
Phillips still has any number of points in the bank and certainly not under pressure for his place and had Lockyer been more switched on they wouldn't have scored anyway.0 -
It puzzles me why people can't accept that
a) Dillon made a bit of a mistake for the goal, but
b) He also played pretty well for the rest of the match, and has been really good this season
After the game you had the ridiculous condemnation (on Facebook but also by a few of the marks given on this board) of Dillon (as if Gordon Banks didn't make any mistakes) but on the other side you also have people almost afraid to criticise Dillon.
The criticism of Naby Sarr after the match at the Den was OTT as well. Players make mistakes, what's unforgivable is if they don't try or deliberately sabotage the team (e.g. with a needless sending off)5 -
Yes but the snow flake in all of us comes out against Millwall.killerandflash said:It puzzles me why people can't accept that
a) Dillon made a bit of a mistake for the goal, but
b) He also played pretty well for the rest of the match, and has been really good this season
After the game you had the ridiculous condemnation (on Facebook but also by a few of the marks given on this board) of Dillon (as if Gordon Banks didn't make any mistakes) but on the other side you also have people almost afraid to criticise Dillon.
The criticism of Naby Sarr after the match at the Den was OTT as well. Players make mistakes, what's unforgivable is if they don't try or deliberately sabotage the team (e.g. with a needless sending off)
My immediate thought was 'Bottle Jobs all of em'.
However we weren't as bad as we all made out, on reflection another day, most probably because it wouldn't have been Millwall we've won that 3-1. They deserved their goal and we came close a few times, but overthought our best efforts giving Millwall time to close our options.
We also played the ball quite well between defence and midfield, but the long balls pumped up to the wingers often caused us to lose the ball.
We just need to play smart, simple football in the next game and we'll get something even if it's another 0-0
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Bonne looked crap initially at the start of the season but with a few games became very useful. Hoping that situation repeats itself.1
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Agree. It killed us. Only player who looked like creating anything or scoring himself. Far too defensive and Field added nothing at all.Croydon said:
The change absolutely fucked us. Zero creativity in the middle of the park and just invited them onto us. Wrong call in my opinion.The Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.2 -
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-boss-explains-why-midfielder-was-subbed-off-at-half-time-against-millwall/ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
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Christ.The Red Robin said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-boss-explains-why-midfielder-was-subbed-off-at-half-time-against-millwall/ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
He was our main creative outlet and seemed up for it. I presumed he was being targeted, too as Millwall could see this.
When Field came on you could see immediately it was just contain/backs against the wall, there'd be no attacking intent, at least nothing that could work.2 -
BOW YOU LEMON!The Red Robin said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-boss-explains-why-midfielder-was-subbed-off-at-half-time-against-millwall/ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
Should have taken McGeady off for Field to partner Cullen.
Morgan would have then been able to continue playing decent passes instead of McGeady always doing that bit too much.2 -
Not quite true. Shortly before they scored we had a sustained spell of pressure, we just didn't have the quality to put the ball in the net. We did create chances though.boggzy said:
Christ.The Red Robin said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-boss-explains-why-midfielder-was-subbed-off-at-half-time-against-millwall/ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
He was our main creative outlet and seemed up for it. I presumed he was being targeted, too as Millwall could see this.
When Field came on you could see immediately it was just contain/backs against the wall, there'd be no attacking intent, at least nothing that could work.
I agree he shouldn't have been taken off.1 -
I still say that if Hemed had followed Cooper into the box instead of standing there and letting him go, he could have got a tackle in before LockyerAddick Addict said:Having looked at the goal again and whether Phillips is solely at fault, it is clear that when Mahoney shoots Cooper is actually outside the penalty box whereas Lockyer is on the edge of the six yard box. At the point when Phillips parries it, Cooper is still further away from the ball than Lockyer.
I was going to say that this is a typical example of how a forward is pro-active in anticipating the keeper fumbling the ball whereas a defender tends to be reactive. Only problem with saying that is that Cooper is a defender of course!
Phillips still has any number of points in the bank and certainly not under pressure for his place and had Lockyer been more switched on they wouldn't have scored anyway.1 -
This ^ I've looked at the replay of their goal several times and Lockyer made a decent attempt at a block but was a fraction late. Cooper should never have got the shot in had he been tracked properly. If you want to apportion blame I'd say 74% Dillon, 25% Hemed, 1% Lockyer.1
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Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
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We only play you when we are down at your level, and we are at our weakest.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
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Lol brilliant. I think, apart from the any cup games (and there’s only been two of those and even then we was in the same league), we have always been at the same rightful level when we’ve played. That’s how league football workshappyvalley said:
We only play you when we are down at your level, and we are at our weakest.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
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Cullen and Field together for me aint good, i would have brought on Williams or JFC.Dazzler21 said:
BOW YOU LEMON!The Red Robin said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-boss-explains-why-midfielder-was-subbed-off-at-half-time-against-millwall/ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
Should have taken McGeady off for Field to partner Cullen.
Morgan would have then been able to continue playing decent passes instead of McGeady always doing that bit too much.
Millwall's Cooper was probably deserved MOM for me, he was playing like a lanky fucking winger at times. I rate that RB Romeo as well, good little player.1 -
Bad luck.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
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That's great in your imperfect perfect world. Cooper tracks/runs diagonally the ball falls perfectly within his run. Lockyer is not initially defending that zone nor should he be. Lockyer has to be reactive in that situation not 'gamble', for him to almost get there was dissapointing but committed. Hemed lost his man but was initially positioned perfectly. Hemed's 33 never been mobile but also was blowing in on empty, yet still dropped back into the proper shape and competed previous to the shot. Cooper's 25 at the peak of his fitness, and looks supremely fit atm.Addick Addict said:Having looked at the goal again and whether Phillips is solely at fault, it is clear that when Mahoney shoots Cooper is actually outside the penalty box whereas Lockyer is on the edge of the six yard box. At the point when Phillips parries it, Cooper is still further away from the ball than Lockyer.
I was going to say that this is a typical example of how a forward is pro-active in anticipating the keeper fumbling the ball whereas a defender tends to be reactive. Only problem with saying that is that Cooper is a defender of course!
Phillips still has any number of points in the bank and certainly not under pressure for his place and had Lockyer been more switched on they wouldn't have scored anyway.
I don't blame Hemed, maybe Williams's energy should have been brought on earlier to keep Cooper back. Yet Bowyer made lot's of little decisions most of us would never have thought of or been able to implement. In post analysis the mistake is Hemed not tracking his runner nothing to do with Lockyer. A central defender can not 'gamble' and give up central areas until he knows where the ball or player's going. He has to be reactive in the box whilst Cooper can gamble that run all the while his fitness allows.1 -
I've stayed away from talking about the match as a lot has already been said. However, the 3 (well, 5 actually) at the back and 2 holding midfielders did for you in most cases as it gave our centre backs free license to foray to the flanks (Cooper to the left and Hutchinson to the right) which, in turn and due to you not having much width, meant Romeo and Murray Wallace could get forward more to support our attack. There was always central cover as well in the form of Molumby and Woods to then sit in front of Pearce if he was ever exposed from mistakes coming from these forays.orpingtonRED said:
Cullen and Field together for me aint good, i would have brought on Williams or JFC.Dazzler21 said:
BOW YOU LEMON!The Red Robin said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-boss-explains-why-midfielder-was-subbed-off-at-half-time-against-millwall/ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
Should have taken McGeady off for Field to partner Cullen.
Morgan would have then been able to continue playing decent passes instead of McGeady always doing that bit too much.
Millwall's Cooper was probably deserved MOM for me, he was playing like a lanky fucking winger at times. I rate that RB Romeo as well, good little player.
I'll also put my neck on the line and say the only time I was worried by one of your players was when McGeady had the ball. Probably historic as he always plays well against us but thought he looked the most composed of your players.
Fuck knows why the young lad was taken off, can't remember his name. The one that tracked Jed back after his mistake. Thought he looked good.
Lockyer looked a liability. Appreciate that's from one game but very lucky not to concede a couple of penalties. Was impressed with Pearce. Pratley was solid. Cullen largely invisible.
Apologies to those that have mentioned assaults taking place. File a report with Greenwich plod and they'll look in to it.7 -
Hard to disagree with most of what you said except McGeady, hes shit trust me.Big_Bad_World said:
I've stayed away from talking about the match as a lot has already been said. However, the 3 (well, 5 actually) at the back and 2 holding midfielders did for you in most cases as it gave our centre backs free license to foray to the flanks (Cooper to the left and Hutchinson to the right) which, in turn and due to you not having much width, meant Romeo and Murray Wallace could get forward more to support our attack. There was always central cover as well in the form of Molumby and Woods to then sit in front of Pearce if he was ever exposed from mistakes coming from these forays.orpingtonRED said:
Cullen and Field together for me aint good, i would have brought on Williams or JFC.Dazzler21 said:
BOW YOU LEMON!The Red Robin said:
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/charlton-athletic-boss-explains-why-midfielder-was-subbed-off-at-half-time-against-millwall/ross1 said:
Was it tactics, I thought he got injured and that was the reason he was taken offThe Red Robin said:Decision to substitute Morgan at half-time, our most creative player, was tactical according to Bowyer.
Should have taken McGeady off for Field to partner Cullen.
Morgan would have then been able to continue playing decent passes instead of McGeady always doing that bit too much.
Millwall's Cooper was probably deserved MOM for me, he was playing like a lanky fucking winger at times. I rate that RB Romeo as well, good little player.
I'll also put my neck on the line and say the only time I was worried by one of your players was when McGeady had the ball. Probably historic as he always plays well against us but thought he looked the most composed of your players.
Fuck knows why the young lad was taken off, can't remember his name. The one that tracked Jed back after his mistake. Thought he looked good.
Lockyer looked a liability. Appreciate that's from one game but very lucky not to concede a couple of penalties. Was impressed with Pearce. Pratley was solid. Cullen largely invisible.
Apologies to those that have mentioned assaults taking place. File a report with Greenwich plod and they'll look in to it.2 -
Yes Hemed was naturally tired. Not exactly the same sort of player, but Smith their centre forward lasted 65 minutes, and I can't see him being expected to cover a run into the box like that after 81 minutes.ColinTat said:
That's great in your imperfect perfect world. Cooper tracks/runs diagonally the ball falls perfectly within his run. Lockyer is not initially defending that zone nor should he be. Lockyer has to be reactive in that situation not 'gamble', for him to almost get there was dissapointing but committed. Hemed lost his man but was initially positioned perfectly. Hemed's 33 never been mobile but also was blowing in on empty, yet still dropped back into the proper shape and competed previous to the shot. Cooper's 25 at the peak of his fitness, and looks supremely fit atm.Addick Addict said:Having looked at the goal again and whether Phillips is solely at fault, it is clear that when Mahoney shoots Cooper is actually outside the penalty box whereas Lockyer is on the edge of the six yard box. At the point when Phillips parries it, Cooper is still further away from the ball than Lockyer.
I was going to say that this is a typical example of how a forward is pro-active in anticipating the keeper fumbling the ball whereas a defender tends to be reactive. Only problem with saying that is that Cooper is a defender of course!
Phillips still has any number of points in the bank and certainly not under pressure for his place and had Lockyer been more switched on they wouldn't have scored anyway.
I don't blame Hemed, maybe Williams's energy should have been brought on earlier to keep Cooper back. Yet Bowyer made lot's of little decisions most of us would never have thought of or been able to implement. In post analysis the mistake is Hemed not tracking his runner nothing to do with Lockyer. A central defender can not 'gamble' and give up central areas until he knows where the ball or player's going. He has to be reactive in the box whilst Cooper can gamble that run all the while his fitness allows.
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No idea mate, my post was about the last 12 years.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
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Yeah I know mate, I was only having a laughCAFCTrev said:
No idea mate, my post was about the last 12 years.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
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At a guess Id say it was our general crapness since 1905!MillwallFan said:
Yeah I know mate, I was only having a laughCAFCTrev said:
No idea mate, my post was about the last 12 years.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
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