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Charlton v Millwall | Fri 03 Jul 2020| Post-match thread
Comments
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At least I've seen us turn them over, not the famous victory in the snow but the 1-0 at Upton Park. The winner albeit scored by an on loan Spurs player John Hendrie. Usual cnutishness and thuggery by their fans on the way back to the tube giving some of our harmless fans a slap for wearing red and white.1
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Our general lameness against our only local rivals ....CAFCTrev said:
At a guess Id say it was our general crapness since 1905!MillwallFan said:
Yeah I know mate, I was only having a laughCAFCTrev said:
No idea mate, my post was about the last 12 years.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
seriously has anyone tried to drive to Selhurst from around SE7 (n/a to those based in bromley a palace area ) It’s a quicker journey selhurst to Brighton
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They fink we wuz west amRedChaser said:At least I've seen us turn them over, not the famous victory in the snow but the 1-0 at Upton Park. The winner albeit scored by an on loan Spurs player John Hendrie. Usual cnutishness and thuggery by their fans on the way back to the tube giving some our fans a slap for wearing red and white.1 -
Mate, driving from The Valley back to Woolwich on a matchday can be painful with the ferry queue!oohaahmortimer said:
Our general lameness against our only local rivals ....CAFCTrev said:
At a guess Id say it was our general crapness since 1905!MillwallFan said:
Yeah I know mate, I was only having a laughCAFCTrev said:
No idea mate, my post was about the last 12 years.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
seriously has anyone tried to drive to Selhurst from around SE7 (n/a to those based in bromley a palace area ) It’s a quicker journey selhurst to Brighton1 -
Colour blind as well then 😉.oohaahmortimer said:
They fink we wuz west amRedChaser said:At least I've seen us turn them over, not the famous victory in the snow but the 1-0 at Upton Park. The winner albeit scored by an on loan Spurs player John Hendrie. Usual cnutishness and thuggery by their fans on the way back to the tube giving some our fans a slap for wearing red and white.0 -
Wife used to live over S W London and I played a lot of football over that way so knew a lot of the back cuts used to take me about 35 mins from SE2 to Beulah Hill.oohaahmortimer said:
Our general lameness against our only local rivals ....CAFCTrev said:
At a guess Id say it was our general crapness since 1905!MillwallFan said:
Yeah I know mate, I was only having a laughCAFCTrev said:
No idea mate, my post was about the last 12 years.MillwallFan said:
Some interesting points. How would you explain the appalling record in the 75 years prior to you being in the premier league?CAFCTrev said:Lets be realistic, there are some factors surrounding us over the last 10-12 years (basically since relegation from the prem) that would help Millwall get the edge in this derby in that time span.
The biggest factor is how unstable Charlton have been as a club in that period of time, players coming and going, ownership all over the place, managers coming and going, the squad being rebuilt from scratch season after season, a squad more often then not consisting of mainly short term contract players (and managers!), loans and free cast offs. Millwall on the other hand have been pretty stable, theyve had a handful of managers in that period of time, no real major ownership/cashflow issues and a consistently more settled squad with multiple long term serving players. So when we play them, its basically whatever team we cobbled together that week/month/season vs a stable club with a solid squad. A squad that has only played together regularly since the previous August, with a bunch of loans and free transfers, many of those being players who perhaps are only at Charlton to help secure their next (bigger) move and would struggle to get extra motivated for a derby, vs a well drilled settled team of journeymen and club stalwarts and a manager who has been there for years.
In the 12 years weve been bouncing around L1 and the Champ, weve only actually been in the same league with them 6 of those seasons, and Id argue weve only really had a genuinely very good quality side perhaps two of those seasons? Id say 2009/10 and 2014/15. Yes we failed to beat them in those seasons too, but I think if we had teams of that quality in the other seasons I think we would have beaten them more then once. Id argue that if we played them with the teams we had last season, and during 11/12 we would have won.
Another factor is that we never get the rub of the green and weve had all manner of odd occurances/weird moments that have conspired against us such as:
- Bauer's disallowed goal in 2016/17
- Solly being sent off at the Den when the ball hit him in the face in 2014/15
- Tucudeans open goal miss in in 2014/15.
- A feeling that we always seem to catch them at the wrong time, ie just as they start a long unbeaten wrong, or when we have an injury crisis.
Ive clutched about 50 straws here probably, but its not as simple as "theyre just better then us" or "they want it more" although they are also factors to a degree.
seriously has anyone tried to drive to Selhurst from around SE7 (n/a to those based in bromley a palace area ) It’s a quicker journey selhurst to Brighton0 -
Bowyer has to be a bit more Moneyball and ask himself where the assists and goals are supposed to come from. Morgan looks like the only person on the pitch capable of creating something at the moment. Take him off and put Field on? That's bonkers.
Here's our top three players for assists by the way:
1. Johnny Williams - 5 assists
2. Jonathan Leko - 4 assists
3. Naby Sarr - 4 assists
One's not playing, one's been gone ages, and one's a central defender!!3 -
I couldn't agree more with your point. It isn't only what you see, but what stats tell you.Chunes said:Bowyer has to be a bit more Moneyball and ask himself where the assists and goals are supposed to come from. Morgan looks like the only person on the pitch capable of creating something at the moment. Take him and put Field on? That's bonkers.
Here's our top three players for assists by the way:
1. Johnny Williams - 5 assists
2. Jonathan Leko - 4 assists
3. Naby Sarr - 4 assists
One's not playing, one's been gone ages, and one's a central defender!!1 -
Went to my Uncle Derek's funeral today - my mums side of the family and originally from Peckham so all Millwall.
Turns out he was evacuated during the war, spent three years in hospital as a child with a dodgy leg, then another three years in a caliper which resulted in him losing his knee joint and having a permanently straight leg. Think about that, going through life being unable to bend your leg.
He had a great sense of south east London humour, always laughing and joking and not taking things too seriously (at least on the outside). Family gatherings would always involve a bit of Charlton/Millwall banter usually with him and my other uncle - his brother - gaining the upper hand. What's new, eh?
As his brother said to me today, "he would've bloody loved that result on Friday". Yeah, he would. I can see him grinning and ready to pull my leg about it now. The git.
I'll let you have that one Del Boy. Say hello to Auntie Joyce for me.12 -
so the team we couldnt break down just lost 2-0 at home to boro - we can blame who we like but if we go down the players will have to take some responsiblity that includes that wanker taylor.0
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Great post.Off_it said:Went to my Uncle Derek's funeral today - my mums side of the family and originally from Peckham so all Millwall.
Turns out he was evacuated during the war, spent three years in hospital as a child with a dodgy leg, then another three years in a caliper which resulted in him losing his knee joint and having a permanently straight leg. Think about that, going through life being unable to bend your leg.
He had a great sense of south east London humour, always laughing and joking and not taking things too seriously (at least on the outside). Family gatherings would always involve a bit of Charlton/Millwall banter usually with him and my other uncle - his brother - gaining the upper hand. What's new, eh?
As his brother said to me today, "he would've bloody loved that result on Friday". Yeah, he would. I can see him grinning and ready to pull my leg about it now. The git.
I'll let you have that one Del Boy. Say hello to Auntie Joyce for me.0
