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Barnsley threatening EFL ahead of Disciplinary action for Wednesday, Derby & Birmingham
Comments
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It was Jimmy Hill that successfully advocated for the removal of the player wages cap. No much to thank him for. (Ok, it was £20 per week, but that was 1961)... That and all seater stadia.0
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There would also need to be a way to adjust for relegation and promotionJints said:
Doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. Just set the cap as a proportion (say 50% or 60%) of turnover for the last financial year.killerandflash said:
I guess the problem with caps is that they need to be in proportion to income, and that's only something you can judge several months after the season has finishedRedrobo said:
I think that is too pessimistic. I am hoping that reality hits home. A wages cap in Championship and the leagues below is essential IMO. That does not have to be set at a level that means each and every club can afford 20 players on that wage. It is a cap not a minimum wage.peterreeves said:Don't think I've ever seen the words Charlton and bum raped in a sentence.... However, I get the very well made point...
The EFL are the beginning, middle and end of the whole problem... They're like a cancer that should be cut out.
Thing is nobody has the balls to do it which is why we are probably watching a time limited sport in footy... It can't survive and in ten years or sooner it will just be Premier league games... Everthything else will be non league.Not complying with the rules must have automatic penalties, like the rule on administration.
The EFL would have a lot less issues to deal with if punishments were transparent and immediate. Sitting around trying to decide penalties for this and mitigation for that is a nonsense. They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and money investigating.
Take SW. The punishment should be (Say) 25 points - with published mitigation for a small amount (Less than (say) £20m) of 5 points. Mitigation for putting your hands up to it of between 0-5 points. Double for a repeat.Take us. New owners to provide evidence to satisfy fit and proper within 14 days of purchase or transfer embargo. 5 points deducted for every 7 day period beyond that.
For example Leeds have far larger crowds and commercial income than say Luton or Wigan, so should be able to spend a lot more on wages0 -
But it must be the same amount for each team. Say in the championship I heard between 18 and 25 million has been mutedkillerandflash said:
There would also need to be a way to adjust for relegation and promotionJints said:
Doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. Just set the cap as a proportion (say 50% or 60%) of turnover for the last financial year.killerandflash said:
I guess the problem with caps is that they need to be in proportion to income, and that's only something you can judge several months after the season has finishedRedrobo said:
I think that is too pessimistic. I am hoping that reality hits home. A wages cap in Championship and the leagues below is essential IMO. That does not have to be set at a level that means each and every club can afford 20 players on that wage. It is a cap not a minimum wage.peterreeves said:Don't think I've ever seen the words Charlton and bum raped in a sentence.... However, I get the very well made point...
The EFL are the beginning, middle and end of the whole problem... They're like a cancer that should be cut out.
Thing is nobody has the balls to do it which is why we are probably watching a time limited sport in footy... It can't survive and in ten years or sooner it will just be Premier league games... Everthything else will be non league.Not complying with the rules must have automatic penalties, like the rule on administration.
The EFL would have a lot less issues to deal with if punishments were transparent and immediate. Sitting around trying to decide penalties for this and mitigation for that is a nonsense. They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and money investigating.
Take SW. The punishment should be (Say) 25 points - with published mitigation for a small amount (Less than (say) £20m) of 5 points. Mitigation for putting your hands up to it of between 0-5 points. Double for a repeat.Take us. New owners to provide evidence to satisfy fit and proper within 14 days of purchase or transfer embargo. 5 points deducted for every 7 day period beyond that.
For example Leeds have far larger crowds and commercial income than say Luton or Wigan, so should be able to spend a lot more on wages0 -
When Hill was behind that, players were being exploited.swords_alive said:It was Jimmy Hill that successfully advocated for the removal of the player wages cap. No much to thank him for. (Ok, it was £20 per week, but that was 1961)... That and all seater stadia.1 -
Zzzzzzz0
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Couldn't deny that. But Jimmy would always have preferred the free market route rather than any regulation or redistribution of wealth. Am not saying that was wrong for the time, but this has gotten so far out of control now that regulatory or structural measures are surely over-due now.MuttleyCAFC said:
When Hill was behind that, players were being exploited.swords_alive said:It was Jimmy Hill that successfully advocated for the removal of the player wages cap. No much to thank him for. (Ok, it was £20 per week, but that was 1961)... That and all seater stadia.2 -
Every player's contract should have a clause that covers relegation (and promotion for that matter). It would make the adjustment far easier.killerandflash said:
There would also need to be a way to adjust for relegation and promotionJints said:
Doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. Just set the cap as a proportion (say 50% or 60%) of turnover for the last financial year.killerandflash said:
I guess the problem with caps is that they need to be in proportion to income, and that's only something you can judge several months after the season has finishedRedrobo said:
I think that is too pessimistic. I am hoping that reality hits home. A wages cap in Championship and the leagues below is essential IMO. That does not have to be set at a level that means each and every club can afford 20 players on that wage. It is a cap not a minimum wage.peterreeves said:Don't think I've ever seen the words Charlton and bum raped in a sentence.... However, I get the very well made point...
The EFL are the beginning, middle and end of the whole problem... They're like a cancer that should be cut out.
Thing is nobody has the balls to do it which is why we are probably watching a time limited sport in footy... It can't survive and in ten years or sooner it will just be Premier league games... Everthything else will be non league.Not complying with the rules must have automatic penalties, like the rule on administration.
The EFL would have a lot less issues to deal with if punishments were transparent and immediate. Sitting around trying to decide penalties for this and mitigation for that is a nonsense. They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and money investigating.
Take SW. The punishment should be (Say) 25 points - with published mitigation for a small amount (Less than (say) £20m) of 5 points. Mitigation for putting your hands up to it of between 0-5 points. Double for a repeat.Take us. New owners to provide evidence to satisfy fit and proper within 14 days of purchase or transfer embargo. 5 points deducted for every 7 day period beyond that.
For example Leeds have far larger crowds and commercial income than say Luton or Wigan, so should be able to spend a lot more on wages3 -
I meant the salary cap needs adjusting for promotion or relegation, if it's done as a proportion of last season's turnoverSantaClaus said:
Every player's contract should have a clause that covers relegation (and promotion for that matter). It would make the adjustment far easier.killerandflash said:
There would also need to be a way to adjust for relegation and promotionJints said:
Doesn't seem to be that much of a problem. Just set the cap as a proportion (say 50% or 60%) of turnover for the last financial year.killerandflash said:
I guess the problem with caps is that they need to be in proportion to income, and that's only something you can judge several months after the season has finishedRedrobo said:
I think that is too pessimistic. I am hoping that reality hits home. A wages cap in Championship and the leagues below is essential IMO. That does not have to be set at a level that means each and every club can afford 20 players on that wage. It is a cap not a minimum wage.peterreeves said:Don't think I've ever seen the words Charlton and bum raped in a sentence.... However, I get the very well made point...
The EFL are the beginning, middle and end of the whole problem... They're like a cancer that should be cut out.
Thing is nobody has the balls to do it which is why we are probably watching a time limited sport in footy... It can't survive and in ten years or sooner it will just be Premier league games... Everthything else will be non league.Not complying with the rules must have automatic penalties, like the rule on administration.
The EFL would have a lot less issues to deal with if punishments were transparent and immediate. Sitting around trying to decide penalties for this and mitigation for that is a nonsense. They seem to spend an inordinate amount of time and money investigating.
Take SW. The punishment should be (Say) 25 points - with published mitigation for a small amount (Less than (say) £20m) of 5 points. Mitigation for putting your hands up to it of between 0-5 points. Double for a repeat.Take us. New owners to provide evidence to satisfy fit and proper within 14 days of purchase or transfer embargo. 5 points deducted for every 7 day period beyond that.
For example Leeds have far larger crowds and commercial income than say Luton or Wigan, so should be able to spend a lot more on wages
Otherwise if Leeds get promoted it would be ridiculous to make them adhere to the 60% of their 2019/20 turnover when their PL income will be massively higher. Ditto if Bournemouth go down, 60% of their PL income would be far too high for a Championship side.0 -
It's quite simple you can either spend what ever you like or you have a "no lose period" zero tollerence.
Submit a financial summer by 1st of April every year to show you break even, if you don't 12 point deduction on the 2nd. If you lie relegated 2 divisions, no ifs no buts.3 -
and no debt loadingCafc43v3r said:It's quite simple you can either spend what ever you like or you have a "no lose period" zero tollerence.
Submit a financial summer by 1st of April every year to show you break even, if you don't 12 point deduction on the 2nd. If you lie relegated 2 divisions, no ifs no buts.
Money gets put into the club as equity.
Bond for two years running costs.
Annual financial plans reviewed externally.
But clubs can spend what they like just as long as they pay for it now.5 -
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Listening the 'The Price of Football' Podcast today, it appears that Leeds' bonus pool for promotion is a massive £19million. It is, at the risk of understatement, quite a large figure (a fair chunk of which I imagine is going to Bielsa) but I guess they are very happy to pay it after 16 years out of the top flight. They'll also be able to afford it with £100 million or so TV money coming their way.
Assuming that Leeds get over the line, a depressed transfer market worldwide will also help them in terms of strengthening the squad.
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It was also said on here recently that Leeds have commercial revenue higher than half of the premier league, so they'll have no problem paying a 19m bonus.Blucher said:Listening the 'The Price of Football' Podcast today, it appears that Leeds' bonus pool for promotion is a massive £19million. It is, at the risk of understatement, quite a large figure (a fair chunk of which I imagine is going to Bielsa) but I guess they are very happy to pay it after 16 years out of the top flight. They'll also be able to afford it with £100 million or so TV money coming their way.
Assuming that Leeds get over the line, a depressed transfer market worldwide will also help them in terms of strengthening the squad.0 -
Completely agree. Mentioned this earlier on. I would like to see something enshrined in either the Companies Act or EFL or FA that moving forward, football clubs are to be treated as some sort of special vehicle where you cannot fund them through excessive debt. I know that is practically hard to achieve as businesses are run on debt all over the world, but surely the many great minds can find a way of making this happenHenry Irving said:
and no debt loadingCafc43v3r said:It's quite simple you can either spend what ever you like or you have a "no lose period" zero tollerence.
Submit a financial summer by 1st of April every year to show you break even, if you don't 12 point deduction on the 2nd. If you lie relegated 2 divisions, no ifs no buts.
Money gets put into the club as equity.
Bond for two years running costs.
Annual financial plans reviewed externally.
But clubs can spend what they like just as long as they pay for it now.
retrospectively it will be a minefield for clubs like Man Utd, but perhaps the league could tier it. Championship clubs can only have X amount of funding via debt, League one X amount and so on.
Ultimately, something needs to be done. Too many clubs are leveraged to the hilt and I don’t understand how long some of them can go on for0 -
Rob Station of BBC Yorkshire...
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As I've said for some time to anyone that says there is nothing the EFL can do.Henry Irving said:
and no debt loadingCafc43v3r said:It's quite simple you can either spend what ever you like or you have a "no lose period" zero tollerence.
Submit a financial summer by 1st of April every year to show you break even, if you don't 12 point deduction on the 2nd. If you lie relegated 2 divisions, no ifs no buts.
Money gets put into the club as equity.
Bond for two years running costs.
Annual financial plans reviewed externally.
But clubs can spend what they like just as long as they pay for it now.
There is plenty that could be done.
Where there's a will there's a way.1 -
I'm sure Wednesday will appeal which would take us into August & past when the season had finished, so the logic of that piece is flawed.Athletico Charlton said:Rob Station of BBC Yorkshire...
There is no logical reason for the delay, only that the EFL are waiting to see how points clear Wednesday can get before applying a deduction.0 -
I think they are delaying because if the penalty is meaningless, all the clubs in and around the relegation zone will be of a mind to take legal action.golfaddick said:
I'm sure Wednesday will appeal which would take us into August & past when the season had finished, so the logic of that piece is flawed.Athletico Charlton said:Rob Station of BBC Yorkshire...
There is no logical reason for the delay, only that the EFL are waiting to see how points clear Wednesday can get before applying a deduction.
When the season is over, there will be only one club that will feel like paying for legal action, the club third from bottom.0 -
...another 14 days to appeal against the verdict.Athletico Charlton said:Rob Station of BBC Yorkshire...
There goes that can again, further down the road and ever further out into the long grass.
That's 14 days in EFL speak too. Like a London Transport "minute".
The 3 day hearing started 10 working days ago and might last another few.
"14 days" on that scale will take us to 18 September at which point the whole business of another 3 day hearing can start again.
As you were...1 -
We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?
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Maybe they reached a decision 2 weeks ago and are waiting for the 14 day appeal window to shut before announcing the punishment? Would be a bit pointless to announce a 12pt deduction, and immediately say it won't be applied because they're appealing. We already think they look stupid, no need for them to hold a press conference to demonstrate it further.Chris_from_Sidcup said:We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?5 -
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I have thought this.......that the EFL have already told Sheff Wed their decision & are waiting to see if they are going to appeal or giving Wednesday time look at their options (administration perhaps ?).randy andy said:
Maybe they reached a decision 2 weeks ago and are waiting for the 14 day appeal window to shut before announcing the punishment? Would be a bit pointless to announce a 12pt deduction, and immediately say it won't be applied because they're appealing. We already think they look stupid, no need for them to hold a press conference to demonstrate it further.Chris_from_Sidcup said:We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?
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I think we should prepare for disappointment.... Wednesday will probably get 9 points off and that's that.1
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This is the only explanation that makes any kind of sense to me.randy andy said:
Maybe they reached a decision 2 weeks ago and are waiting for the 14 day appeal window to shut before announcing the punishment? Would be a bit pointless to announce a 12pt deduction, and immediately say it won't be applied because they're appealing. We already think they look stupid, no need for them to hold a press conference to demonstrate it further.Chris_from_Sidcup said:We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?0 -
This is the most sensible post I’ve read on here in agesrandy andy said:
Maybe they reached a decision 2 weeks ago and are waiting for the 14 day appeal window to shut before announcing the punishment? Would be a bit pointless to announce a 12pt deduction, and immediately say it won't be applied because they're appealing. We already think they look stupid, no need for them to hold a press conference to demonstrate it further.Chris_from_Sidcup said:We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?1 -
The EFL can't do it though, as everyone you say that to says. The OWNERS have to tell the EFL to do it. If you think the owners are going to do that you need need to give your head a wobble.Covered End said:
As I've said for some time to anyone that says there is nothing the EFL can do.Henry Irving said:
and no debt loadingCafc43v3r said:It's quite simple you can either spend what ever you like or you have a "no lose period" zero tollerence.
Submit a financial summer by 1st of April every year to show you break even, if you don't 12 point deduction on the 2nd. If you lie relegated 2 divisions, no ifs no buts.
Money gets put into the club as equity.
Bond for two years running costs.
Annual financial plans reviewed externally.
But clubs can spend what they like just as long as they pay for it now.
There is plenty that could be done.
Where there's a will there's a way.
The government need to legislate for it to happen.2 -
That would be an expedient, if somewhat crafty, choice of actions.randy andy said:
Maybe they reached a decision 2 weeks ago and are waiting for the 14 day appeal window to shut before announcing the punishment? Would be a bit pointless to announce a 12pt deduction, and immediately say it won't be applied because they're appealing. We already think they look stupid, no need for them to hold a press conference to demonstrate it further.Chris_from_Sidcup said:We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?
Could have lack of transparency leveled at it.
One would like to think that the ruling cadre at EFL, collectively, have that sort of wit and imagination.
Which is where your proposition falls down.
When ever has anything about EFL and its tawdry, glacial machinations ever suggested that anybody there has the grey matter or would care that deeply if they did?
Your faith in these dullard spongers does you credit but I fear is terribly misplaced.
I'll be happy, nay dumbstruck, to be proved wrong.1 -
Not only is this far too sensible for the EFL to consider. I think if Wednesday had been told then it would have leaked by now.randy andy said:
Maybe they reached a decision 2 weeks ago and are waiting for the 14 day appeal window to shut before announcing the punishment? Would be a bit pointless to announce a 12pt deduction, and immediately say it won't be applied because they're appealing. We already think they look stupid, no need for them to hold a press conference to demonstrate it further.Chris_from_Sidcup said:We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?3 -
If the points deduction won’t relegate them, maybe they are holding off until next season, which will be a disgrace.Leeds_Addick said:
Not only is this far too sensible for the EFL to consider. I think if Wednesday had been told then it would have leaked by now.randy andy said:
Maybe they reached a decision 2 weeks ago and are waiting for the 14 day appeal window to shut before announcing the punishment? Would be a bit pointless to announce a 12pt deduction, and immediately say it won't be applied because they're appealing. We already think they look stupid, no need for them to hold a press conference to demonstrate it further.Chris_from_Sidcup said:We've been hearing "likely to get a decision this week" for the past 2-3 weeks.
I'm sure i read the actual hearing finished a fortnight ago. The lawyer in their case is also the lawyer for Derby's hearing and as far as i'm aware that started yesterday.
So wtf are they waiting for?
The whole world of football knows they have cheated. Even their fans acknowledge that they have been cheating.
I am getting so fed up with the pee being taken I am fast falling out of love for professional football.3 -
Maybe Man City winning their appeal against FFP means that the EFL will have even more cold feet and let Sheff Wed with a suspended points deduction.4
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So when the fuck are they going to announce their punishment???, I fear we're going to need it
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