Charlton v Wigan | Sat 18 July, 2020 | Post-match thread

Naby has been here longer than either Yann or Clive, of course - and the key is fallibility - the others were underdogs for different reasons but were never anything but revered by our fans, and of course they were strikers. But a baller who also happens to be a centre-back? Who also happens to be a frustrated midfielder? Who pulls off astonishing passes on a regular basis and has perfected the drag-back out of trouble? There's not many players in English football to compare that to, let along Charlton. I think Benoit Assou-Ekotto at Spurs is maybe one example of a defender whose foremost attribute was flair, but I can't think of many others. And he was a full-back. Tom Huddlestone (another favourite of mine) was going down a similar path until he actually became a midfielder. John Stones SHOULD be regarded in the same vaunted light but all English fans seem to hate him because he's beautiful. It's not too late, Naby, and John - make like David Luiz, head for the midfield, then return to defence when you're old and slow(er) 

Pretty good at sticking those last ditch tackles in though if you ask me. 

Off_it said:

I like Naby and that pass today was superb.

But I do think he didn't really do enough to stop the cross coming in for the first goal and also lost his man for the second, which doesn't appear to have been mentioned although Lockyer has been pulled up for not doing the same for the second (although I thought it was Pearce?).  Not exactly howling mistakes this time, but he just seems to lack a bit of concentration sometimes. 

Personally I just couldn't see him in central midfield. He's great at picking out a pass when he has the time and space, but I would worry about his speed of thought and mobility playing in the middle of the park.

I appreciate this isn't going to be popular as the Saturday night Naby-wankathon seems to be going full pelt, but there it is.

Sarr got called out for his part in the Wigan goals on the match thread and this thread.  I think he played pretty well today (as did most others) and definitely prefer him to Osilaja 

I think Sarr was in no way at fault for the first goal - he was never going to stop the cross after being sold completely down the river, and at least didn't let the guy go past him completely.

For the second goal, he was caught out a bit, but so was the rest of our defence, and it was a really good ball across. It was very similar to one he was slightly caught out against...I think West Brom? by earlier this season, but no defender is going to cut out everything. Lockyer's missed cut-out against Birmingham rankles a lot more! 

And look, Enda Stevens is everyone's favourite new left-back and everything but that error against Newcastle the other week? From a breakout Premiership star? Now that is how to not cut out a cross. Sarr does that (as he did in his debut season against Wednesday in our surprise 3-1 win) and I'm avoiding this site for a month

oohaahmortimer said:

For some weird reason I got a bit choked up as the teams came out today and welled up (what a fucking weirdo)I think it was my view that relegation was coming and all the hard work of last season was about to evaporate due to the patheticness of Roland and the crooks/chancers/Charlatans who may or may not own our club. This can still all happen .

I thought we looked dangerous first half ....but in a weird way I think Cullen and Lockyer have gotten really poor by their own standards in recent games and Moyes won’t be tripping over himself to put Cullen in his Prem squad next season.

Bonne is like all good modern bowlers......in today’s game he knew when to throw in a good slower ball , first one didn’t cause any problems and was easily dispatched by the wigan keeper but he wasn’t perturbed by that and the second trundler nestled in the bottom corner to send my household in to a body popping frenzy .

Its still in our hands but I think we’ll drop it so best to have someone else take that chance and Fulham have a better set of hands than us .....

65% we stay up ....... 35% heart break 

Feel Cullen if that is the case because I believe his recent performances are due to playing every minute of every match and he needs a bit of a rest.

He might get it as well if his knock is serious enough, but he won't then have the opportunity to find better form for us again.

MattF said:

oohaahmortimer said:

For some weird reason I got a bit choked up as the teams came out today and welled up (what a fucking weirdo)I think it was my view that relegation was coming and all the hard work of last season was about to evaporate due to the patheticness of Roland and the crooks/chancers/Charlatans who may or may not own our club. This can still all happen .

I thought we looked dangerous first half ....but in a weird way I think Cullen and Lockyer have gotten really poor by their own standards in recent games and Moyes won’t be tripping over himself to put Cullen in his Prem squad next season.

Bonne is like all good modern bowlers......in today’s game he knew when to throw in a good slower ball , first one didn’t cause any problems and was easily dispatched by the wigan keeper but he wasn’t perturbed by that and the second trundler nestled in the bottom corner to send my household in to a body popping frenzy .

Its still in our hands but I think we’ll drop it so best to have someone else take that chance and Fulham have a better set of hands than us .....

65% we stay up ....... 35% heart break 

Feel Cullen if that is the case because I believe his recent performances are due to playing every minute of every match and he needs a bit of a rest.

He might get it as well if his knock is serious enough, but he won't then have the opportunity to find better form for us again.

Agree Cullen looked shattered today. Hammers would be mad to sell him or loan him out again though. Ive watched a bit of them the last month and they aint great in midfield. Noble is getting on,Rice will be gone in 12 months so they cant plan around him, Cullen and Bowen could be a good base for their future.

Having re-watched the highlihhts I think Naby could have done a bit beyter for the first goal. Yes, he was well and truly buggered by Lockyer's awful "pass" but he didn't really get back quick enough to close down the crossing opportunity. If he could have got a bit closer (and there was plenty of time between the interception and the cross) he might have been able to disrupt it.

As for the second, blanket blame across about six players, starting with Cullen for losing the ball and then all the defence for going MIA. One also has to ask where was Alfie? Shouldn't he have tracked the runner down our left?

I didn't think I'd be so happy to get a draw, but I am. A good attacking performance, we made chances and we took (some) chances. The team never gave up, coming from behind twice. Davison looked good. Great goal from Doherty. Magnificent cross field pass from Sarr. Macca heads the scoring list.

It's possible for us to lose on Wednesday and still stay up. Who would have thought that? Of course, we don't wan't to do it like that though, we can win on Wednesday. Leeds have nothing to play for now, and we have a decent record against them anyway. It wouldn't be the first time we've beaten them to retain our status. All we need is a bit of Bonne Chance.

killerandflash said:

soapboxsam said:

Gillis said:

Sillybilly said:

I’m not having this Bonne hero worship stuff. He was rank awful for 95% of the game. Granted he kept trying but he scored with a shot that wasn’t much harder than a back pass. Fair play to the lad and I’m glad he did but that doesn’t make him Jamie fucking Vardy. If Bowyer thinks he was brilliant today then I know even less about football than I think I do. I clearly need to take a holiday from here for a bit. 

It certainly doesn't: Vardy only scored 4 goals in his debut season in the Championship after moving from non-league.

Well said Gillis,
One of Vardy's first games for Leicester was at the valley and we beat them from memory 2-1 with Yann scoring twice.
Vardy missed 3 chances yet I thought he was a good prospect as he was so fast.
Jamie would have been 24 years old.

Personally think Bowyer slagged him off too much before and praised him OTT today But he took that added time goal with aplomb and at 200k looks a fucking bargain to me. Losing Taylor as his mentor for most of this season has cost us big time as I feel Macaulay would be on 20 goals, playing alongside Taylor for a whole season. 20 goals scored and 20 missed probably.
That how it works with decent strikers.

It was a Naki Wells miss at QPR after the shocking pass back set him up with even more time that Bonne had today which always look shocking. 

I have spent  time on here and at games defending him. I said after a league cup game I thought both him and Field would do well for us if they got Minutes.

Sam Field like Williams finds it hard to play more than 45 minutes, which is a shame as he is needed with Pratley out.

I think Bowyer on reflection probably regrets previously slagging him off in public, hence the slightly exaggerated praise today

Overreaction re him “supposedly” slagging Bonne off......some folk are making way too much of it......Bonne didn’t seem overly bothered by it it would seem.
Anyway maybe it was the right approach.....I myself didn’t think that his comments were that harsh at all.

jimmymelrose said:

I do wish that people would stop counting on points reductions. We have to stay above three teams with no points reductions taken into account. 

Otherwise we will be in the bottom three throughout August waiting for the EFL to take the points off. Apart from the stress that would cause us all, how are the management supposed to prepare for next season not knowing what league we are in?
We wouldn't even know if we have a league to play in as League One might not even start but the Championship will.

I must be watching a different game to most , I thought that was close to Bonnes worse game for us , poor touch , hardly any flick ons and obviously a poor effort in The first half 
and Then the ying to the yang with that finish which is testament to his never give up attitude and bowyer having the perseverance to stick with him for the whole game , FairPlay 
his goals return is unarguably superb , can he keep that up at this level , well it matters not for now but I’m on the don’t think so side .
If we are championship Next season With a reasonable bit of money then I wouldn’t expect him to start , skint and he’s a definite , league one and he’s a definite.
If he’s as good with as much potential as some predict the vultures will soon circle but I don’t see it going that way .
I think Davison is a better long term prospect 
but for the right here right now he’s done more than we could ever have asked for,  stepping up and getting the goals he has and long may he continue shoving it down the doubters like myself and sillybillys throat because if we do stay up he’ll be as big a contributor to that as any and for that I’ll always be grateful .
i still wouldn’t want him one on one with Leeds to secure our championship safety but no one else seems capable of finding themselves in that position for us so I’d rather we had the chance than none at all .

Anyone else find themselves jumping up and running to the tv swearing (the virtual equivalent of the wallys ,yes I’m one of them, who run down the steps and give it when something in the game happens near them at the ground) when Aneke followed through and caught a Wigan player accidentally late on and there was some squaring up on the pitch .

what a joke , a little earlier one of the Wigan players getting involved had done a similar thing with his follow through,  I think on Cullen .

oohaahmortimer said:

I must be watching a different game to most , I thought that was close to Bonnes worse game for us , poor touch , hardly any flick ons and obviously a poor effort in The first half 
and Then the ying to the yang with that finish which is testament to his never give up attitude and bowyer having the perseverance to stick with him for the whole game , FairPlay 
his goals return is unarguably superb , can he keep that up at this level , well it matters not for now but I’m on the don’t think so side .
If we are championship Next season With a reasonable bit of money then I wouldn’t expect him to start , skint and he’s a definite , league one and he’s a definite.
If he’s as good with as much potential as some predict the vultures will soon circle but I don’t see it going that way .
I think Davison is a better long term prospect 
but for the right here right now he’s done more than we could ever have asked for,  stepping up and getting the goals he has and long may he continue shoving it down the doubters like myself and sillybillys throat because if we do stay up he’ll be as big a contributor to that as any and for that I’ll always be grateful .
i still wouldn’t want him one on one with Leeds to secure our championship safety but no one else seems capable of finding themselves in that position for us so I’d rather we had the chance than none at all .

Now that I’ve calmed down after the emotion of the game I think that @oohahmortimer has summed up my feelings a little more rationally than I managed in the heat of the moment yesterday. Thank you Macca. If we stay up we owe you one. But if you’re our main man next season then the next few weeks and months haven’t worked out as we’d all hope in the ownership shenanigans.