Post Match Thread: Burton Albion v Charlton Athletic | Tuesday 24th November 2020

LargeAddick said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Watching a replay of the first two goals you have to wonder why both Gunter and Amos were so switched off? Even after Gunter's mistake Amos should have saved the first and then he decides to give away another goal.

Don't pass it around at the back if your players make such basic mistakes.

Despite Gunter’s mistake Amos should have prevented the first goal. But he’s good at taking catches so it’s not really an issue ......

See this is why I defended Bonne to high hell when he missed that one v one against Wigan as the Goalkeeper is never going to make that situation easy for a Striker - Atkin should have done better with the initial shot, he got damned lucky that the shot squirmed through

ElfsborgAddick said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

Last nights game was a blip, completely agree with Bowyers press conference after the game... We have had an amazing start under a team who are still gelling together as a unit. This is a wake up call to the lads and I'm sure they will go to Ipswich and do us proud. As well we haven't got a proper CB at the minute. If we lose one game in every 9 games then I will be well chuffed with that.

If we play like we did last night we will struggle. The first two goals were given away and there's no point using injuries as an excuse.

I'm unclear why Pearce didn't start - Lee starts other players who are not 100% match fit.

If Ipswich watch last night's game they'll know what to target. Hopefully mistakes won't be repeated.

Football is football, it's all about turning up on the day, Burton did last night, we didn't. I would love for us to win every game from now till the end of the season but it's not going to happen and I'm not saying this is the last time we will play like we did last night because it will happen again this season but very rarely. Like I also said if we lose one game in 9 for the rest of the campaign then that's playoffs form at least.

Amazing how fans forget the previous 8 games.  The fickleness of the modern supporter.
Ffs, if we move outside the top 6 there will be calls for the sacking of Bowyer.

The thread is about last night's game - there are some genuine concerns. 

Hopefully it will get sorted.

What a disaster - two centre halves on the bench and we play a fullback and midfielder in their positions. I think LB loves Gunter and Matthews and happy to play them both but to the detriment of the team - Matthews is better going forward but takes too long getting back in position and cant defend - Gunter is not so good going forward but can defend and I would always prefer a defender who can defend.  
LB also likes Watson and Pratley  and again it suited LB to play both rather than having two holding midfielders, which dont work especially as we dont have an out and out goalscorer, so we need one central midfielder to push forward a bit - again why was Morgan on the bench .
Prately is a good defender when in the right place but always in the wrong position when playing centrehalf and needs an experienced  centrehalf next to him to talk to him when playing there.
Would also prefer Purrington playing left back and push the youngster into midfield for a bit of pace.
Lets hope LB starts to play players in their proper positions rather than putting square pegs into round holes

BR7_addick said:

I’ve posted some meltdown overreactions on here but my word last night takes some beating from certain individuals.

From the off they were up for it more, that happens in football, doesn’t matter the levels, the old cliche of “win the first ball” and they certainly did, first 20 we looked like we’d already won it, poor attitude yes but we wouldn’t be the first team to do this.

Secondly, doesn’t matter the quality of Gunter/Pratley, I think we got found out for not having a centre back last night, was it bowyers fault, no, because if he could of played Pearce or Oshilaja he would of, that’s injuries, we’ve dealt with that before.  Convinced the passing out from the back would of been okay with Famewo and Innis in there patrolling things better.

Maddison and Gilbey were not at the races, they’re both still unfit clearly, they are both capable at this level no question, let’s not do the whole scapegoat thing with Maddison just because you don’t like his tattoos and Instagram account, they were both poor, agreed, Maddison has down glimpses.

Bigger picture, the run of six wins we beat Portsmouth and Fleetwood, it wasn’t an accident, you can’t be shit and beat those two, in fact I’d wager that if we finish above both of them we’ll get automatic promotion.  Let’s all calm down, we lost one game, a bad day at the office, and bowyer sides tend to react to such defeats, he knows that was crap and so do we, let’s back the boys again Saturday.

People come on here to vent surely after a bad game? It's fair enough to be disappointed and a bit worried after that defensive display - our first choice CBs won't be back for some time so we need to sort this out given the squad we have.

I'm sure everyone on here wants the team to do well and let's hope things are tightened up at the back on Saturday.

Solidgone said:

Sometimes a team needs a kick up the arse to refocus and that includes Bowyer and tactics.  We’ve still a way to go through the season and I would much prefer our team to step into top gear at the latter stages than being the league leaders. So lessons learned last night do let’s not have a repeat of such a dire performance. 

Curious how we will be set up defensively on Saturday and whether we will persist playing out from the back?

Will Pearce start?

ElfsborgAddick said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

Last nights game was a blip, completely agree with Bowyers press conference after the game... We have had an amazing start under a team who are still gelling together as a unit. This is a wake up call to the lads and I'm sure they will go to Ipswich and do us proud. As well we haven't got a proper CB at the minute. If we lose one game in every 9 games then I will be well chuffed with that.

If we play like we did last night we will struggle. The first two goals were given away and there's no point using injuries as an excuse.

I'm unclear why Pearce didn't start - Lee starts other players who are not 100% match fit.

If Ipswich watch last night's game they'll know what to target. Hopefully mistakes won't be repeated.

Football is football, it's all about turning up on the day, Burton did last night, we didn't. I would love for us to win every game from now till the end of the season but it's not going to happen and I'm not saying this is the last time we will play like we did last night because it will happen again this season but very rarely. Like I also said if we lose one game in 9 for the rest of the campaign then that's playoffs form at least.

Amazing how fans forget the previous 8 games.  The fickleness of the modern supporter.
Ffs, if we move outside the top 6 there will be calls for the sacking of Bowyer.

 But last night wasn't a blip was it. We managed a point on Saturday by grabbing pretty much a last gasp equaliser & the previous game we let a 2 goal lead slip within minutes & had to hang on for the win with Fleetwood having most of the final 15 mins. 

If we had been winning games comfortably by 2 or 3 goals then you could say last night was a blip. If we had been rolling over teams & looking dominant then you could say last night was Swindon 2000 all over again. But we haven't. 

As I've been banging on about for months - if we get ahead in a game we usually see it out & win. If we concede first we usually go on to lose. No problem with that if we go all out attacking & are on the front foot from the off. But the opposite seems to be the case. 

In Bowyers defence I will say that he can't be wholey to blame & a lot of our problems are obviously down to ESI, the transfer embargo & getting relegated. I doubt many managers (and the proof is that they were still around for us to sign) would pick Bogle, Smyth & Maddison for their starting 11. Too many players leaving & having to sign half fit replacements haven't helped. I can't see it changing much come January because of the wage cap and you can't be shipping many players out because most of the players have only recently signed & therefore are on 2 or 3 year deals. You don't sign Gilbey, Maddison, Washington, Gunter or etc only to push them out the door after 6 months. Maybe Smyth & Levitt can be sent back to free up some money - and Bogle paid off so that we can actually strengthen where needed.

Cafc43v3r said:

Dazzler21 said:

I actually am finding myself starting to agree with a number of your comments. That's a sad day

I do think Aneke and Washington can reach 30 between them. Bogle may get 5, but I'm not sure how many will be clear cut shots. Smyth I'd expect 5 as well. A whole 40 goals... woo. 

Which is one more than Taylor, Grant, Parker, Ajose and Igor got....... 

Okay you're right So Aneke and Washington 25 between them, Bogle maybe 3. Smyth I can see getting 5. A whole 33 goals... woo!

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

blackpool72 said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

SouthLondonisRed said:

Last nights game was a blip, completely agree with Bowyers press conference after the game... We have had an amazing start under a team who are still gelling together as a unit. This is a wake up call to the lads and I'm sure they will go to Ipswich and do us proud. As well we haven't got a proper CB at the minute. If we lose one game in every 9 games then I will be well chuffed with that.

If we play like we did last night we will struggle. The first two goals were given away and there's no point using injuries as an excuse.

I'm unclear why Pearce didn't start - Lee starts other players who are not 100% match fit.

If Ipswich watch last night's game they'll know what to target. Hopefully mistakes won't be repeated.

Football is football, it's all about turning up on the day, Burton did last night, we didn't. I would love for us to win every game from now till the end of the season but it's not going to happen and I'm not saying this is the last time we will play like we did last night because it will happen again this season but very rarely. Like I also said if we lose one game in 9 for the rest of the campaign then that's playoffs form at least.

Amazing how fans forget the previous 8 games.  The fickleness of the modern supporter.
Ffs, if we move outside the top 6 there will be calls for the sacking of Bowyer.

BOWYER OUT 

Nothing wrong in discussing games and ways the team can improve which tbf I think most on here do. It doesn't make a lot of sense to ignore the shortcomings and focus only on the positives.

We had a good run but defensive frailty has crept back in hence the concern. 

Invisibility more like!

golfaddick said:

Stig said:

Covered End said:

Covered_End_Lad said:

Been saying for weeks we mess around with the ball at the back too much and all it takes is a team to press us and we will look very silly. That’s what happened tonight. Really really poor night.

I've been saying it for years.
Bowyer believes we can pass it around like Barcelona. We can't.
If we're getting tightly pressed stop playing the dangerous game.

You're right it's a dangerous game, but I think the slow passing around the back also also costs us when we try to move into attack: We're passing the ball around, busy going nowhere. It's all very sedentary - not much movement, not much pace.  Then one of our players spots an opening and makes a move, the man on the ball sees him and makes the pass... What happens next? What happens it that the passer, whose senses have been dulled to leisurely-lateral level, places the ball not in front of the runner but at his feet. Or worse still, behind. The runner has to check his step, and may need more touches to control the ball. Vital fractions are lost and the advantage has gone. If we're going to play that style of football we need players with the skill read the pace of the game and acclimatise instantly to the speed-up. Sadly, I don't think we have many of them.

Its interesting watching games from yesteryear. The other week someone on here put up the FA cup matches against Ipswich and Spurs from the early 80's. In both games the onus was on getting the ball forward asap. Goalkeepers from both sides would simply hoof it forward & defenders would pretty much do the same (although the Spurs players tried to play a bit more football). Tippy tappy may look good if you are Man City or Barcelona  - not quite the same for League 1 cloggers. Don't get me wrong, neat passing football is great to watch, but in the opposition half & not your own 22.

I think too many teams overplay at the back now and I question how beneficial it is ? It is seen as the way to play now and as a coach you are under pressure to do so regardless of how good your players are.

Modern full backs seem to be lauded for their attacking qualities yet they make basic errors when defending. There seems to be a lot of poor positioning and players who struggle with tackling.

It's a real skill to set a team up well defensively but not one that is often held in high regard. 

soapboxsam said:

I feel as flat as a pancake this morning, like all of us but what ever formation you play, you need a strong spine.

Keeper:
Amos who has been outstanding, made a big mistake with the 2nd goal; Ben was unlucky with the 1st goal. The curse of winning the League 1 POTM strikes again.

Centre Back:
Two vastly experienced players had shockers BUT they are not CB'S.
Ryan Inniss and Famewo were so missed last night.

Central Midfield: a mess in the first half where Shinnie and Watson couldn't get a grip on the opposition and Gilbey looked lost out Left. Players not marked and passes going astray. 2nd half better going forward but defensively terrible.

Number 9: My fear before last night were Bogle is game But lacks awareness. A good cross was put across the box and Bogle was no where to be seen. Aneke comes on and we have a focal point who can hold the ball up or win headers. Plus he can score goals. My judgement the first time I saw Aneke was he should be a number 9 when he scored a goal minutes after coming on against Stoke at the Valley (I think it was Stoke ?) 

Washington gets into goal scoring positions and another day would've scored with the shot from Aneke and then Chuks appeared to block Conor's goal ward bound shot !

I have been analysing football matches and players since I was a kid but struggled to work out the formation last night: 

4 at the back with Maatsen as an attacking full back( sort out your studs Ian) was clear

But the midfield and forwards was a mystery last night.  Gilbey who is box to box normally or at least when he is up too speed played out left in the first half. 

I'm sure they were the lowest marks I have ever given the team with the exception of Aneke and Morgan who I gave high marks and Washington an average mark who at least got into goal scoring positions even if the ball refused to cross the line. 

A bad day at the office ?
Yes the boss catches you with his wife in the broom cupboard with your strides down and you tell a long standing client he is a boring tosspot.

Memories !

I'm not convinced by Amos when it comes to parrying the ball - he doesn't get it away from danger as much as he should do. That for me is his biggest weakness. 

There were mitigating factors but the way we play it from the back, there has to be a plan B if it isn't working. It was clear from the off their press was working effectively so bypass it. Don't think if their tactics are working, they will suddenly stop working. It is on Bowyer I'm afraid, and hopefully he is not too stubborn to learn from it. That can not happen again.

Far too many players out - especially in specialised positions; last night others played out of position; too slow and predictable moving the ball; individual schoolboy errors plus credit to Burton for pressing and doing the simple things right. But let's remember, we are (for now) a third division club, not bloody Real Madrid  If we are in a good position in January then I think TS will spend to help LB but of course we have the salary cap so we won't be signing Messi. 

The cracks were there on Saturday and Burton drove straight through them. All credit to them. Thought their midfielder Powell was excellent. Their pressing brought rewards particularly in the first half.

In the second half we created more chances mainly because we did hit Aneke and we were playing a higher line and pushed forward with Gilbey in the game more and then the talented Morgan who can see a pass if there is movement.
Burton did drop back and played a counter attacking game which worked a treat for them.

You play short or long from the back, you mix it up like when Amos found Doughty who despite not finding a cafc shirt with his cross, the ball ended up in the back of the net after just 8 seconds or so from the ball leaving Ben's hands.

Man City only have a Plan A according to Kevin De Bruyne; playing in League 1 we don't have the players to outskill the opposition every week with one way of playing. The possession stats are the most pointless (Literally) 
A friend who is a Manager of a Corals branch showed me the amount of times a team wins with only 30 to 40% of possession. The slow build up from the back is ok at times when you are doing game management But to do it constantly is counter productive.  

Only one loss in 8 but the performance since the international break is alarming considering the amount of work they did over two weeks at Sparrows lane.