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The thread about Boxing

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  • EricBanterna
    EricBanterna Posts: 1,740
    AJ is a different person now since his loss, its almost like he's being himself and not this manufacturered Individual. 

  • PaddyP17
    PaddyP17 Posts: 13,037
    Completely neglected to mention the Okolie fight. That was worse in terms of reffing. That should have been stopped after the second knockdown at the absolute latest. 
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,006
    Really enjoyed that.
    AJ looking good.
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,825
    Decent outing for Joshua. Turned on the switch in the third and for a more than decent finish and looks to be getting some confidence back. Yes Pulev was 39 and fought just once in 21 months, but he’s a tough durable character.

    Will do Joshua good that. If they’re  sensible they would be wise to get him out again in 4 months rather than aother 8-9 month gap. He needs a bit of regularity and momentum 
  • mickc
    mickc Posts: 573
    Was that an audition for strictly?One of the worst fights I've ever seen.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited December 2020
    Liked the way he didn't chase the KO. He let it come to him when it came to him. He has learned from previous fights.
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,246
    Joshua is there to be hit. He moves in straight lines and apart from a left uppercut he has in his locker which is tons more effective than the right. Pulev tough but didn't do anything he hasn't done before and if he had backed himself a bit more he could have fucked Joshua up. 

    Fury beats him and I think that will be it for AJ. I like Joshua as a person and understand why non boxing geeks love him I think anyone who can feint and has a decent jab will cause him endless problems 
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,459
    edited December 2020
    The few body shots Joshua dished out really seemed to have an effect on Pulev.
    He really didn't like them

    Shame he only really started throwing them from the 8th
  • Stonewallpenalty19
    Stonewallpenalty19 Posts: 317
    A good performance.  But not one that inspires any more confidence that he would beat fury.


    He was hit too many times. Had that been wilder it would of been over.

    He's the underdog against Fury but certainly a live one

  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    jacob_CAFC said:
    Don't really watch boxing but this didn't really seem fair to me, very very one sided
    99% of AJ's career to date 
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  • WattsTheMatter
    WattsTheMatter Posts: 367
    edited December 2020
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    jacob_CAFC said:
    Don't really watch boxing but this didn't really seem fair to me, very very one sided
    99% of AJ's career to date 
    I think making that a criticism of AJ pretty unfair. Whilst I do think AJ is overrated by casual fans, he's undoubtedly fought a higher calibre of opponents than most of Fury or Wilder's.

    Its a problem across boxing that the top fighters rarely fight actually good competition until they're about 30-0 in, but none of the following are tomato cans:
    - Pulev
    - Povetkin
    - Ruiz
    - Takam
    - Klitschko
    - Whyte

    There's a debate to be had about the likes of Breazeale, Molina, and Martin however. 
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    edited December 2020
    WattsTheMatter said:
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    jacob_CAFC said:
    Don't really watch boxing but this didn't really seem fair to me, very very one sided
    99% of AJ's career to date 
    I think making that a criticism of AJ pretty unfair. Whilst I do think AJ is overrated by casual fans, he's undoubtedly fought a higher calibre of opponents than most of Fury or Wilder's.

    Its a problem across boxing that the top fighters rarely fight actually good competition until they're about 30-0 in, but none of the following are tomato cans:
    - Pulev
    - Povetkin
    - Ruiz
    - Takam
    - Klitschko
    - Whyte

    There's a debate to be had about the likes of Breazeale, Molina, and Martin however. 
    I love AJ and went to most of his early fights before getting bored of him walking through tomato cans.

    Bar Klitschko he has not fought anyone world class. (Cross generationally world class )

    The names you list are bang average/ mediocre in any other generation of heavyweight boxing.

    Klitschko aside would any of those listed last 3 rounds with Tyson, Lewis etc? 

    Without testing himself against Wilder or Fury he can't claim any real accolades in the bigger scheme of heavyweight boxing.

    As I say I'm a big fan and have been since day one and you can't blame a fighter for the era they box in but beyond a past prime Klitschko I can't see anyone of note on Joshua's card.

    Fight and beat Fury, then he starts challenging that assumption.

    Until then he is a stand out fighter in an appalling heavyweight era who hasn't fought the contemporaneous best in his division.
  • WattsTheMatter
    WattsTheMatter Posts: 367
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    WattsTheMatter said:
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    jacob_CAFC said:
    Don't really watch boxing but this didn't really seem fair to me, very very one sided
    99% of AJ's career to date 
    I think making that a criticism of AJ pretty unfair. Whilst I do think AJ is overrated by casual fans, he's undoubtedly fought a higher calibre of opponents than most of Fury or Wilder's.

    Its a problem across boxing that the top fighters rarely fight actually good competition until they're about 30-0 in, but none of the following are tomato cans:
    - Pulev
    - Povetkin
    - Ruiz
    - Takam
    - Klitschko
    - Whyte

    There's a debate to be had about the likes of Breazeale, Molina, and Martin however. 
    I love AJ and went to most of his early fights before getting bored of him walking through tomato cans.

    Bar Klitschko he has not fought anyone world class. (Cross generationally world class )

    The names you list are bang average/ mediocre in any other generation of heavyweight boxing.

    Klitschko aside would any of those listed last 3 rounds with Tyson, Lewis etc? 

    Without testing himself against Wilder or Fury he can't claim any real accolades in the bigger scheme of heavyweight boxing.

    As I say I'm a big fan and have been since day one and you can't blame a fighter for the era they box in but beyond a past prime Klitschko I can't see anyone of note on Joshua's card.

    Fight and beat Fury, then he starts challenging that assumption.

    Until then he is a stand out fighter in an appalling heavyweight era who hasn't fought the contemporaneous best in his division.
    If we're talking cross generationally I'd agree, I'd say Povetkin's probably the best name on the resume other than Klitschko, but would acknowledge the age there (same for the Klitschko fight for AJ)

    I'd also agree about the Fury fight. AJ v Fury has to happen for the legacy of either for me. 

    My point was less a defence of AJ, but moreso a condemnation of Heavyweight boxing in general- I wouldn't count Wilder as being someone that would shine cross generationally given the quality of the majority of his opponents, and I think the same is true to an extent for Fury. 
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    edited December 2020
    It's a shame for them that they won't prove themselves as it (boxing this era in general) seems to be geared up at avoiding each other for eternity to maintain the pointless "0 losses" (overlooking AJs blip of course) and preserve max revenue when their management finally allow them to fight possibly past prime a'la Mayweather Pacquiao.

    Now they'll retire with zillions in the bank and brain cells in tact but will they be revered in the same breaths as the Alis, Fraziers, Foremans, Tysons, Leonard's, Hagglers etc. very very unlikely.

    No one will be Youtubing Joshua fights in 30 years in the way Tyson still draws us in.

    Probably says more about the sport as a whole but that's the way it seems to be.

    Overhyped and underwhelming compared to what went before.

  • WattsTheMatter
    WattsTheMatter Posts: 367
    edited December 2020
    Regardless of the quality of his opposition, Edgar Berlanga hits like a damn truck- 16-0, 16 first round KOs. Genuinely scary seeing what this guy is doing to people.
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    Went the distance with Parker as well who isn't a mug. Until Fury fights Joshua, both imo will just have unrealised potential, neither has really shown anything special
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,678
    McBobbin said:
    Went the distance with Parker as well who isn't a mug. Until Fury fights Joshua, both imo will just have unrealised potential, neither has really shown anything special
    Fury well and truly beat both Klitchko and wilder. 
    When they fight he will smash AJ.
    Then his legacy will be sorted. 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,844
    edited December 2020
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    It's a shame for them that they won't prove themselves as it (boxing this era in general) seems to be geared up at avoiding each other for eternity to maintain the pointless "0 losses" (overlooking AJs blip of course) and preserve max revenue when their management finally allow them to fight possibly past prime a'la Mayweather Pacquiao.

    Now they'll retire with zillions in the bank and brain cells in tact but will they be revered in the same breaths as the Alis, Fraziers, Foremans, Tysons, Leonard's, Hagglers etc. very very unlikely.

    No one will be Youtubing Joshua fights in 30 years in the way Tyson still draws us in.

    Probably says more about the sport as a whole but that's the way it seems to be.

    Overhyped and underwhelming compared to what went before.


    Different eras produce either clusters of great boxers or a stand-outs who dominate.

    Ali with Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Norton. Leonard with Hagler, Duran and Hearns. They were clusters and why they are memorable - and there are others, either clusters of fighters or trilogies between two fighters (e.g. Gatti/Ward).

    Vladimir Klitschko dominated for 10 years without too much competition. Mayweather and Pacquiao each dominated until they finally met 6 or 7 years too late - I was there and it was a complete letdown, but they were both great boxers.

    AJ has fought mainly bums or decent fighters who were over the top - the same can be said of Fury. But they have fought what was available, although I agree they have to fight each other to somehow try to determine the best of their generation.

    Yes Mike Tyson will be searched on Youtube for as long as there is interest in boxing - but that is about style and reputation more than ability. Tyson also mainly fought bums (look at his record) and came unstuck against the best - he doesn't make my top 10 all time heavyweights - neither of course will AJ or Fury.
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,825
    I think you’re being very harsh @RodneyCharltonTrotta

    I'm saying this as someone who don’t particularly like Joshua, so I’m no fan boy. You have to remember Joshua has still only had 25 fights, he’s a lot more fights still in him and should physically be at peak from last year to say another three years.

    You can only fight from the pool on the scene at that time and the names @WattsTheMatter listed out shows he’s not been avoiding too much in that pool, particularly given he has vulnerabilities. He’s had one blockbuster fight with Kitchko and I expected him to ‘make some money’ off the back of that before then upping his game again about a year / year and a half ago and return to the legacy defining blockbuster (2 or 3 fight deal with Wilder or Fury).

    But then the Ruiz disaster ruined that, and then Covid has extended it. He’s ‘lost’ that time so it should all happen in the next year imo as long as Covid goes in the right direction. I foresee a similar April outing and then an Aug / Sept big one. 


  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,853
    I don’t think AJ really wants to fight Fury 
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  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,849
    edited December 2020
    MrOneLung said:
    I don’t think AJ really wants to fight Fury 
    I don't really watch much boxing, have watched a few AJ fights (both the Ruiz ones and last night) and a couple of Fury ones (the one where he fought a man dressed as a robot or whatever he was wearing).

    That post fight interview yesterday, when Fury was mentioned and he was like "I am the best x,y,z, and if it's Fury so be it" etc.... I mean, I heard what he was saying, but his face and his eyes were like "dear god please don't make me fight that man..." 

    He looked absolutely terrified.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,844
    MrOneLung said:
    I don’t think AJ really wants to fight Fury 

    Why would he not want to unify the titles? I can't think of any reason he wouldn't but mi££ions of reasons why he would. A two fight deal would make both of them very, very rich.
    The problem is that it isn't the boxers who decide this, it is the money men - those who make fortunes out of boxers for decades whilst never knowing what it's like to take a punch.
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    MrOneLung said:
    I don’t think AJ really wants to fight Fury 
    After the way he made Klitschko and more so Wilder look I don't blame him.

    I like Joshua and would like him to be remembered as a great but for me he would need to face and beat Fury and sooner rather than later to have any chance of that prospect.

    I always thought he was the best in the world above wilder and fury but seeing what fury did to wilder earlier this year changed my mind. 

    Sad thing is there really doesn't seem to be much of a new generation coming through behind them but I suppose there are far more appealing routes to making a living these days without risking brain damage each time you go to work.

  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,246
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    MrOneLung said:
    I don’t think AJ really wants to fight Fury 
    After the way he made Klitschko and more so Wilder look I don't blame him.

    I like Joshua and would like him to be remembered as a great but for me he would need to face and beat Fury and sooner rather than later to have any chance of that prospect.

    I always thought he was the best in the world above wilder and fury but seeing what fury did to wilder earlier this year changed my mind. 

    Sad thing is there really doesn't seem to be much of a new generation coming through behind them but I suppose there are far more appealing routes to making a living these days without risking brain damage each time you go to work.

    In terms of British heavies there are a couple but I think the next batch of world level heavies will be from Russia or Eastern Europe again. 

    Need to mention as well the Okolie fight was across mismatch and should have been stopped at the end of the first round. Nice to see Okolie not make me want to disqualify him myself 
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,844
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    MrOneLung said:
    I don’t think AJ really wants to fight Fury 
    After the way he made Klitschko and more so Wilder look I don't blame him.

    I like Joshua and would like him to be remembered as a great but for me he would need to face and beat Fury and sooner rather than later to have any chance of that prospect.

    I always thought he was the best in the world above wilder and fury but seeing what fury did to wilder earlier this year changed my mind. 

    Sad thing is there really doesn't seem to be much of a new generation coming through behind them but I suppose there are far more appealing routes to making a living these days without risking brain damage each time you go to work.


    Wilder is a very limited boxer who won his fights because opponents stood off him in fear of his over hand right. The problem with that is standing off gave him the room and time to throw bombs - Fury walked him down and showed Wilder up for the poor boxer he is.

    For me, Fury/Joshua is a pick'em fight - no reason why either should fear the other.

    On your last point, most boxers come from a background that see boxing as their only chance to make a serious living.
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,918
    Fury vs AJ is the only next 2/3 fights that make any sense. 
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,827
    bobmunro said:
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    MrOneLung said:
    I don’t think AJ really wants to fight Fury 
    After the way he made Klitschko and more so Wilder look I don't blame him.

    I like Joshua and would like him to be remembered as a great but for me he would need to face and beat Fury and sooner rather than later to have any chance of that prospect.

    I always thought he was the best in the world above wilder and fury but seeing what fury did to wilder earlier this year changed my mind. 

    Sad thing is there really doesn't seem to be much of a new generation coming through behind them but I suppose there are far more appealing routes to making a living these days without risking brain damage each time you go to work.


    Wilder is a very limited boxer who won his fights because opponents stood off him in fear of his over hand right. The problem with that is standing off gave him the room and time to throw bombs - Fury walked him down and showed Wilder up for the poor boxer he is.

    For me, Fury/Joshua is a pick'em fight - no reason why either should fear the other.

    On your last point, most boxers come from a background that see boxing as their only chance to make a serious living.
    Historically without doubt yes and in parts of the world still yes but I imagine there a vastly more options open to many potential boxers these days than 30 or 50 years ago.  So few make it to earn a living above what could be earned elsewhere for far less required discipline, dedication and hardship, certainly in the UK these days.

    Most who come through in the UK these days will likely be through choice rather than necessity/ only way to make a serious living and early on they'll know very early on in their pro careers if they have enough hype and promotion and ticket selling ability behind them to get on the track to have a chance of earning silly money. 

    Of course in many parts of the world that hasn't change of course.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited December 2020
    carly burn said:
    The few body shots Joshua dished out really seemed to have an effect on Pulev.
    He really didn't like them

    Shame he only really started throwing them from the 8th
    Mind you, credit to Pulev that he didn't like them. Any of us wouldn't remember them!

    They have to wait for crowds to return for Joshua v Fury. I think you can make a good case for either fighter when it does happen.
  • shine166
    shine166 Posts: 13,918
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    carly burn said:
    The few body shots Joshua dished out really seemed to have an effect on Pulev.
    He really didn't like them

    Shame he only really started throwing them from the 8th
    Mind you, credit to Pulev that he didn't like them. Any of us wouldn't remember them!

    They have to wait for crowds to return for Joshua v Fury. I think you can make a good case for either fighter when it does happen.
    Fight 1 in Saudi next year then, Wembley aint gonna be open for significant numbers until at least 2022. 
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,619
    Not a boxing fan these days but I have a question for those of you that follow the ring. What’s happened to boxing in the USA ? The yanks used to have a steady production line of world class heavyweights, mainly black Americans out of New York, Chicago. Philadelphia etc and dominate the division. What’s changed or am I wrong ? 

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