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Post-match Thread: Charlton v Gillingham | 13th Feb 2021
Comments
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Famewo being “probably the most accomplished defender in the league” is not a fact - it’s your opinion.PragueAddick said:
Oh do **** off. "People" are just looking at the basic facts, rather than pretending they know more than the professionals. The facts areCafc43v3r said:
I genuinely can't remember so many people hanging their hat on 2 players that have played 4 games together and never managed more than 10 and 22 games in season before.cafctom said:I genuinely can't recall two injured players being rated as highly as Inniss (a bloke who has spent his career on loan at about 10 clubs), and Famewo.
When these two come back, I'm expecting to see Van Dijk / Vidic level performances from these two the way some of the comments about their impact has been.
LoOk At LiVeRpOoL.....
Yeah VVD and Gomez won the premier league and the Champions league. Famewo and Innis kept a clean sheet at Northampton.
* Famewo is probably the most accomplished central defender in this League, by which I mean that he makes good decisions consistently and does not make mistakes very often. That is why he is highly rated at Norwich, top of the league above, while Oshilaja is with us.
* Inniss is a formidable presence in the air, and imposes himself on strikers. Nobody was quite sure how consistent he would be, but he and Famewo seem to complement each other well. He has benefitted from playing alongside Famewo. I'd be less confident with Pearce or Oshilaja alongside him, but it would be better than the current options.
* We are shipping 2 goals a game. With those two available we went six games without conceding a goal.
It is obvious that neither Pearce nor Oshilaja can deliver sufficiently consistently for 95 minutes in most games. Famewo and Inniss are as good as if not better than nearly all centre backs I've seen this season in this league. (Actually the young Gills lad was very good, but he is already being chased by Champ clubs, and even West Ham, according to Terry and Greg).
That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less.
He and Inniss performed very well together in the short time they had in the side, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a reasonable excuse for us to capitulate in so many games where they’ve not been involved.Inniss has struggled to land a regular gig throughout his career, and Famewo is at an age where if he were good enough for Norwich then he wouldn’t be loaned out. They’ve performed well for us, but let’s stop making out as though we are incapable of putting results together without them.If they’re not fit, then Bowyer has to find a way to make it work with what we’ve got left. He hasn’t done that. Every other side in this league has injuries to deal with half way through the season, and in most cases a much smaller squad. We’ve had long enough to try and figure a solution out. It hasn’t happened.
Oshilaja and Pearce aren’t superstars but I do think they’re performing below their ability. Again, that is something that sits with the management/coaching side to get right.5 -
I want Watson and Pratley back together in centre of midfield , they offer stability
I know I’m on my own here but just think they’re solid , old and slow but can read the game .
Shinnie and Millar on the flanks and the big men up frontWhile the defence is all over the oche we need to shore up somehow and them two wily old characters will give us that .
When beckenbauer and baresi return we can look to be a bit more expansive and drop one of the old timers3 -
I am of the mindset that Gillingham should NEVER beat us at the Valley, however, two of their goals were virtually unstopables .. and of course if you don't shoot, you don't score .. a lesson for our shot shy midfielders2
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Stop pretending you know more than the professionalsPragueAddick said:
Oh do **** off. "People" are just looking at the basic facts, rather than pretending they know more than the professionals. The facts areCafc43v3r said:
I genuinely can't remember so many people hanging their hat on 2 players that have played 4 games together and never managed more than 10 and 22 games in season before.cafctom said:I genuinely can't recall two injured players being rated as highly as Inniss (a bloke who has spent his career on loan at about 10 clubs), and Famewo.
When these two come back, I'm expecting to see Van Dijk / Vidic level performances from these two the way some of the comments about their impact has been.
LoOk At LiVeRpOoL.....
Yeah VVD and Gomez won the premier league and the Champions league. Famewo and Innis kept a clean sheet at Northampton.
* Famewo is probably the most accomplished central defender in this League, by which I mean that he makes good decisions consistently and does not make mistakes very often. That is why he is highly rated at Norwich, top of the league above, while Oshilaja is with us.
* Inniss is a formidable presence in the air, and imposes himself on strikers. Nobody was quite sure how consistent he would be, but he and Famewo seem to complement each other well. He has benefitted from playing alongside Famewo. I'd be less confident with Pearce or Oshilaja alongside him, but it would be better than the current options.
* We are shipping 2 goals a game. With those two available we went six games without conceding a goal.
It is obvious that neither Pearce nor Oshilaja can deliver sufficiently consistently for 95 minutes in most games. Famewo and Inniss are as good as if not better than nearly all centre backs I've seen this season in this league. (Actually the young Gills lad was very good, but he is already being chased by Champ clubs, and even West Ham, according to Terry and Greg).
That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less.
They have played 4 games together, out of 28. We have had a window to correct the problem.
Famewo has never played more than 10 games in a season Ryan Innis has had a season ending injury in almost every season he has played. He was the same age as Johnny Williams was when we signed him and had played less games, mainly down to an injury.
So you think it's a good idea to build your plan based on that?
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Remember 3 of the games Backenbauer and Baresi kept a clean sheet in Watson and Pratley both started in midfield. Pratson have played 4 games together in midfield in total.oohaahmortimer said:I want Watson and Pratley back together in centre of midfield , they offer stability
I know I’m on my own here but just think they’re solid , old and slow but can read the game .
Shinnie and Millar on the flanks and the big men up frontWhile the defence is all over the oche we need to shore up somehow and them two wily old characters will give us that .
When beckenbauer and baresi return we can look to be a bit more expansive and drop one of the old timers
Number of goals conceded? Zero.3 -
Regarding Williams and Inniss, they have both come from the same side and it could be argued that they had their injuries mismanaged.
Williams had been in our squad for 24 league games this season out of 25 league games we had played, missing only Gillingham's 1-1. The most he's played in that amount of games since he was a regular at Palace 10 years ago. Ever since the 11/12 season he has managed between 10 & 20 games a season, except both last (26) and this season (18, but would have likely made mid 20's again if not pushed 30). We appear to have resolved his injury issues.
With regards to Inniss
He played 4 in a row, got sent off then played the next fixture. Last season he was in the squad 23 times out of 32 games played, He played 22, was subbed on once and off twice in that entire period. The longer he's stayed away from Palace, the fewer injuries he's appeared to have.1 -
When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.4
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When Pratley and Watson have been part of our midfield together, they have played Watson CDM, Pratley CM with either F.Caskey or Shinnie in the other CM role.EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.
We have conceded 1 goal and won 3 of the 4 games when they played there. (Inniss & Famewo were behind them in 3/4 of those games... The 3 wins. The other a 1-1 draw to Shrewsbury with Pearce alongside Famewo in defence EDIT: Watson scored in that one...)
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I missed the Shewsbury one, what about Sunderland at home? I think some of the players are the wrong way round....Dazzler21 said:
When Pratley and Watson have been part of our midfield together, they have played Watson CDM, Pratley CM with either F.Caskey or Shinnie in the other CM role.EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.
We have conceded 1 goal and won 3 of the 4 games when they played there. (Inniss & Famewo were behind them in 3/4 of those games... The 3 wins. The other a 1-1 draw to Shrewsbury with Pearce alongside Famewo in defence EDIT: Watson scored in that one...)
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Was saying the very same over the weekend. Under Curbishley if we leaked goals or were on a bad run, he concentrated on a clean sheet. Bowyer has just chopped and changed.oohaahmortimer said:I want Watson and Pratley back together in centre of midfield , they offer stability
I know I’m on my own here but just think they’re solid , old and slow but can read the game .
Shinnie and Millar on the flanks and the big men up frontWhile the defence is all over the oche we need to shore up somehow and them two wily old characters will give us that .
When beckenbauer and baresi return we can look to be a bit more expansive and drop one of the old timers
4231 with Watson and Pratley holding should have been tried. It's such a poor division that failure to win at home, if we keep a clean sheet must be near impossible. Still, if as mentioned previously on valley pass, that Bowyer won't listen to Curbs then we deserve to be where we are - tossing an easy promotion down the drain which a lot on here felt after the Fleetwood result. Btw a lot of those people are now saying promotion is unrealistic because of constraints. Laughable.
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How was Deji unconvincing? He'd played about 5 mins. Yes was coming back from injury but was available for at least two matches before starting. Was poor at the weekend but has probably been our best player over the last 6 weeks.esseffect said:
You mean the strikers that everyone on here said weren’t good enough?cafcfan1990 said:
like when Millar was up top when we had strikers on the bench? Or are you referring to when Smyth was playing RWB? Ah you must have meant when Deji was on the bench and Pratley started at CB.esseffect said:
It’s not even about them as players. They are our first choice CBs and missing such a crucial position most of the season has affected the whole team.Cafc43v3r said:
I genuinely can't remember so many people hanging their hat on 2 players that have played 4 games together and never managed more than 10 and 22 games in season before.cafctom said:I genuinely can't recall two injured players being rated as highly as Inniss (a bloke who has spent his career on loan at about 10 clubs), and Famewo.
When these two come back, I'm expecting to see Van Dijk / Vidic level performances from these two the way some of the comments about their impact has been.
LoOk At LiVeRpOoL.....
Yeah VVD and Gomez won the premier league and the Champions league. Famewo and Innis kept a clean sheet at Northampton.
Deji wasnt fit for a time and neither was Pearce, hence all the tinkering.
A lot on here just seem a team sheet and think “well that’s stupid” without using a brain cell to understand why the team is put out like that.
Deji who was playing sort of like he played this weekend.. unconvincing and coming back from an injury.
I have no excuses for Smyth... you see what I did there? Admitted a fault.
try it on for size
Washington and Schwartz were both on the bench when he started Millar up top. Bowyer saw he made a mistake because it didn't even last a half.
I also missed out Maatsen playing RM. You can dig out the fans who failing to use a "brain call to understand..." but there have been some ludicrious decisions over the last couple of months.
I have no problem with people wanting to back Bowyer even if I don't agree with all of it. But digging out fans for calling out odd selections is out of order, especially when a lot of them were unsuccessful.3 -
The only reason I dig someone out is because they can spend all evening doing it to a manager on an Internet forum where it’s easy to be a critic.Why would that same person have any issues being criticised if they can give it out so easily.1
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Please can you show me where I spent all evening doing what you have accused me of?esseffect said:The only reason I dig someone out is because they can spend all evening doing it to a manager on an Internet forum where it’s easy to be a critic.Why would that same person have any issues being criticised if they can give it out so easily.
All I've said is there are decisions which I believe attracted justified criticism. You've backed those decisions by accusing fans of failing to see why the team was put out like that. I don't agree with that, the performances/results have shown some of those decisions to be poor ones. I'm not slagging off the fans who disagree with my opinion though.2 -
I took my list from BBC Sport (In my response I was of course referring to when Pratley and Watson have both been in midfield)Cafc43v3r said:
I missed the Shewsbury one, what about Sunderland at home? I think some of the players are the wrong way round....Dazzler21 said:
When Pratley and Watson have been part of our midfield together, they have played Watson CDM, Pratley CM with either F.Caskey or Shinnie in the other CM role.EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.
We have conceded 1 goal and won 3 of the 4 games when they played there. (Inniss & Famewo were behind them in 3/4 of those games... The 3 wins. The other a 1-1 draw to Shrewsbury with Pearce alongside Famewo in defence EDIT: Watson scored in that one...)
It's easier to see when both are on the field in the second table, which also demonstrates well the reason for our lack of chemistry between central defence and central midfield and attack and central midfield...
We even have a nice easy breakdown for Pratson calcs:
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I never said you did? You jumped on comment I was quoting from another poster?cafcfan1990 said:
Please can you show me where I spent all evening doing what you have accused me of?esseffect said:The only reason I dig someone out is because they can spend all evening doing it to a manager on an Internet forum where it’s easy to be a critic.Why would that same person have any issues being criticised if they can give it out so easily.
All I've said is there are decisions which I believe attracted justified criticism. You've backed those decisions by accusing fans of failing to see why the team was put out like that. I don't agree with that, the performances/results have shown some of those decisions to be poor ones. I'm not slagging off the fans who disagree with my opinion though.0 -
Sorry I thought it was aimed at me. I understand what you mean now, albeit still strongly agree as I think you are unnecessarily backing Bowyer where criticism is justified (not saying all comments are, just that some due to certain selections has been warranted).esseffect said:
I never said you did? You jumped on comment I was quoting from another poster?cafcfan1990 said:
Please can you show me where I spent all evening doing what you have accused me of?esseffect said:The only reason I dig someone out is because they can spend all evening doing it to a manager on an Internet forum where it’s easy to be a critic.Why would that same person have any issues being criticised if they can give it out so easily.
All I've said is there are decisions which I believe attracted justified criticism. You've backed those decisions by accusing fans of failing to see why the team was put out like that. I don't agree with that, the performances/results have shown some of those decisions to be poor ones. I'm not slagging off the fans who disagree with my opinion though.1 -
No need to apologise! We’re all just passionate herecafcfan1990 said:
Sorry I thought it was aimed at me. I understand what you mean now, albeit still strongly agree as I think you are unnecessarily backing Bowyer where criticism is justified (not saying all comments are, just that some due to certain selections has been warranted).esseffect said:
I never said you did? You jumped on comment I was quoting from another poster?cafcfan1990 said:
Please can you show me where I spent all evening doing what you have accused me of?esseffect said:The only reason I dig someone out is because they can spend all evening doing it to a manager on an Internet forum where it’s easy to be a critic.Why would that same person have any issues being criticised if they can give it out so easily.
All I've said is there are decisions which I believe attracted justified criticism. You've backed those decisions by accusing fans of failing to see why the team was put out like that. I don't agree with that, the performances/results have shown some of those decisions to be poor ones. I'm not slagging off the fans who disagree with my opinion though.0 -
This.Lincsaddick said:I am of the mindset that Gillingham should NEVER beat us at the Valley, however, two of their goals were virtually unstopables .. and of course if you don't shoot, you don't score .. a lesson for our shot shy midfielders.
Q. Why don't we score worldies
A. Because we don't shoot enough.3 -
Ouch.Cafc43v3r said:
I missed the Shewsbury one, what about Sunderland at home? I think some of the players are the wrong way round....Dazzler21 said:
When Pratley and Watson have been part of our midfield together, they have played Watson CDM, Pratley CM with either F.Caskey or Shinnie in the other CM role.EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.
We have conceded 1 goal and won 3 of the 4 games when they played there. (Inniss & Famewo were behind them in 3/4 of those games... The 3 wins. The other a 1-1 draw to Shrewsbury with Pearce alongside Famewo in defence EDIT: Watson scored in that one...)0 - Sponsored links:
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I have to say the more games we play the more perplexed I become.
I blamed Bowyer for continuing with Gunter & Pratley at centre half as they were struggling badly.
I called for bringing in Oshilaja and Pearce.
Round pegs in round holes.
I hold my hands up and can now totally see Bowyer's reluctance.
Pearce (as much as I love him) looks like his legs have gone.
He gets outpaced by everyone.
Akinde I thought, was one of the biggest carthorses around and yet even he left Pearce grasping at thin air.
Oshilaja has in the main looked a better bet at centre half than Pratley or Gunter but then he effectivley gifts the Gills a goal within 30 seconds of the start and is clearly not a top 6 centre half in L1.
Gunter has disappointed since his great start and when Matthews came in recently he too disappointed.
Maatsen has clearly needed a rest for some time and I called for Purrington.
Yes Ben has looked safer to me and then he gifts the Gills a winner by backing off.
Watson has been disappointing.
Morgan has one good game and then one poor game.
Gilbey has been rubbish since his injury.
Shinnie has looked lacking since his injury.
I'm now inclined to let Bowyer see out the season unless our results get even worse.
I think our performances have improved thanks mainly to Millar, Stockley and Aneke being able to play 90 mins.
I still think the defensive side of our game should be better and I'm certain we wouldn't be shipping 2 or more goals at home every game if for instance Warnock was our manager.14 -
If we are playing better away from home, then at least that puts us in a good place when we reach Wembley in the play-off final
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Despite the fact that we’ve conceded zero goals in the four games when they’ve both started?EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.Serious question, because that stat has made me rethink my previous position.2 -
Come and join the anti football fan club of Pratson in centre mid ... you know it makes sense during this pathetic spell of comical defendingJamesSeed said:
Despite the fact that we’ve conceded zero goals in the four games when they’ve both started?EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.Serious question, because that stat has made me rethink my previous position.1 -
I’m no fan if I’m honest, but stats are stats.oohaahmortimer said:
Come and join the anti football fan club of Pratson in centre mid ... you know it makes sense during this pathetic spell of comical defendingJamesSeed said:
Despite the fact that we’ve conceded zero goals in the four games when they’ve both started?EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.Serious question, because that stat has made me rethink my previous position.I think our fortunes will improve when our luck does. There haven’t actually been that many mistakes, (Oshi’s made just one [or was it two on Saturday] in the last six games), but they all seem to be punished, often with super strikes.0 -
Completely fair sentiment!Covered End said:I have to say the more games we play the more perplexed I become.
I blamed Bowyer for continuing with Gunter & Pratley at centre half as they were struggling badly.
I called for bringing in Oshilaja and Pearce.
Round pegs in round holes.
I hold my hands up and can now totally see Bowyer's reluctance.
Pearce (as much as I love him) looks like his legs have gone.
He gets outpaced by everyone.
Akinde I thought, was one of the biggest carthorses around and yet even he left Pearce grasping at thin air.
Oshilaja has in the main looked a better bet at centre half than Pratley or Gunter but then he effectivley gifts the Gills a goal within 30 seconds of the start and is clearly not a top 6 centre half in L1.
Gunter has disappointed since his great start and when Matthews came in recently he too disappointed.
Maatsen has clearly needed a rest for some time and I called for Purrington.
Yes Ben has looked safer to me and then he gifts the Gills a winner by backing off.
Watson has been disappointing.
Morgan has one good game and then one poor game.
Gilbey has been rubbish since his injury.
Shinnie has looked lacking since his injury.
I'm now inclined to let Bowyer see out the season unless our results get even worse.
I think our performances have improved thanks mainly to Millar, Stockley and Aneke being able to play 90 mins.
I still think the defensive side of our game should be better and I'm certain we wouldn't be shipping 2 or more goals at home every game if for instance Warnock was our manager.
Another manager would help us stop shipping goals, but probably at the expense of attack.
I don’t like to scapegoat players, so I don’t. However it feels like everyone isn’t doing their bit in making us a poor side, players, coaches and managers
My defence of Bowyer is in my eyes it’s not entirely his fault as others have been saying, so sacking him won’t fix things at all0 -
JamesSeed said:
I’m no fan if I’m honest, but stats are stats.oohaahmortimer said:
Come and join the anti football fan club of Pratson in centre mid ... you know it makes sense during this pathetic spell of comical defendingJamesSeed said:
Despite the fact that we’ve conceded zero goals in the four games when they’ve both started?EveshamAddick said:When Inniss and Femewo were in the side we showed a grit and strength I’ve not seen from Charlton for years. They were a threat up top and solid at the back. I don’t want to see Pratley and Watson on the pitch at the same time ever again.Serious question, because that stat has made me rethink my previous position.I think our fortunes will improve when our luck does. There haven’t actually been that many mistakes, (Oshi’s made just one [or was it two on Saturday] in the last six games), but they all seem to be punished, often with super strikes.
You can't do anything about the finish but watch the whole clip, the defending all round is poor. Easy to get the cross in, about 4 of them lose their man in the panic, half of them push out, half drop back.
I think there are 6 players behind the ball when it's crossed but if he had mis hit it we won't be in great place to defend old Rick O'Shea.
There was no individual clanger but it's not great viewing is it.2 -
It's definitely not entirely Bowyer's fault and I don't think even Muttley thinks it is.esseffect said:
Completely fair sentiment!Covered End said:I have to say the more games we play the more perplexed I become.
I blamed Bowyer for continuing with Gunter & Pratley at centre half as they were struggling badly.
I called for bringing in Oshilaja and Pearce.
Round pegs in round holes.
I hold my hands up and can now totally see Bowyer's reluctance.
Pearce (as much as I love him) looks like his legs have gone.
He gets outpaced by everyone.
Akinde I thought, was one of the biggest carthorses around and yet even he left Pearce grasping at thin air.
Oshilaja has in the main looked a better bet at centre half than Pratley or Gunter but then he effectivley gifts the Gills a goal within 30 seconds of the start and is clearly not a top 6 centre half in L1.
Gunter has disappointed since his great start and when Matthews came in recently he too disappointed.
Maatsen has clearly needed a rest for some time and I called for Purrington.
Yes Ben has looked safer to me and then he gifts the Gills a winner by backing off.
Watson has been disappointing.
Morgan has one good game and then one poor game.
Gilbey has been rubbish since his injury.
Shinnie has looked lacking since his injury.
I'm now inclined to let Bowyer see out the season unless our results get even worse.
I think our performances have improved thanks mainly to Millar, Stockley and Aneke being able to play 90 mins.
I still think the defensive side of our game should be better and I'm certain we wouldn't be shipping 2 or more goals at home every game if for instance Warnock was our manager.
Another manager would help us stop shipping goals, but probably at the expense of attack.
I don’t like to scapegoat players, so I don’t. However it feels like everyone isn’t doing their bit in making us a poor side, players, coaches and managers
My defence of Bowyer is in my eyes it’s not entirely his fault as others have been saying, so sacking him won’t fix things at all
The question is how much is his fault and with the same squad would another manager do better?
Mind you we'll never know because Famewo should be back soon.0 -
That is exactly right. It boils down to whether he is going to take us up this year, or whether somebody else might be more likely to. If you think the squad is rubbish, I can see how you might think it doesn't matter. I believe the squad is good enough, and a fresh face could have an impact especially seeing as Bowyer has been shooting himself in the foot a bit lately.
Bowyer took over from Robinson with 10 games remaining and with us 5 points from the play offs. It is doable, but I don't believe Bowyer is best placed to do it in the same way, regrettably, Robinson wasn't. Many of those wanting to give him to the end of the season are not making the case for promotion this season, from what I consider a shite league, but having a go next season. 18 games is a lot!
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