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Has Bowyer lost it?
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You don’t think he’s tried to tell them to put a bit of effort in?LargeAddick said:
But whose fault is that then Lee?Scoham said:Whether you've been Bowyer in or out, think this run started in 2019 or 2020, think this is a top 2, play-off or mid table squad I can't see how anyone could defend that tonight. I've got to the point where I think we need a change.
I was happy to give him the transfer window and see if he could turn it around, but if this continues for the next few months how does Bowyer then convince players in the summer that we're the right club and he's the right manager for them?
Now I don't expect us to win by several goals just because Burton are bottom of the league, but that felt like watching Saturday's game all over again. A good goal by Stockley early on and then little to no quality after that.
I gave up in the last 20/30 minutes, knew we weren't coming back. These last two games the players have looked like they've felt once we've conceded.
While some are overrating this squad we don't even look capable of winning a couple of games in a row, or even getting a couple of clean sheets.
I don't think anyone can argue someone else wouldn't get more out of this squad. This run has gone on long enough and it's no longer about whether we can be 2nd/3rd rather than 6th/7th - we're getting worse rather than improving and look set to finish in mid table nowhere near the top 6. Yes someone may do worse but it feels as if we're at the point where it'll continue to get worse if we stick with Bowyer.
Something clearly isn't right and Bowyer seems to know it. The players must do too, can't believe they're convinced by the number of changes and playing so many formations.
Going to be interesting to see what TS does and if Bowyer is sacked who he replaces him with.1 -
Cheers Southall you prick 😂Bedsaddick said:
Why would he walk when he has a long contract?WhenIwasLittleBoy said:Personally I think he will walk rather than wait for the bullet. If he does go what happens to the back room staff do they go as well?1 -
What’s changed though?? He had us playing fairly well in the championship early doors, then when Connor went and injuries hit us we really suffered. He should be doing better than he has done since the last home win. What’s changed?
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I think about how we played with Deji as full back and Oztumer in Cm against Forest away! We were great.0
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To me it points to a lack of motivation, buck stop with him.Callumcafc said:
You don’t think he’s tried to tell them to put a bit of effort in?LargeAddick said:
But whose fault is that then Lee?Scoham said:Whether you've been Bowyer in or out, think this run started in 2019 or 2020, think this is a top 2, play-off or mid table squad I can't see how anyone could defend that tonight. I've got to the point where I think we need a change.
I was happy to give him the transfer window and see if he could turn it around, but if this continues for the next few months how does Bowyer then convince players in the summer that we're the right club and he's the right manager for them?
Now I don't expect us to win by several goals just because Burton are bottom of the league, but that felt like watching Saturday's game all over again. A good goal by Stockley early on and then little to no quality after that.
I gave up in the last 20/30 minutes, knew we weren't coming back. These last two games the players have looked like they've felt once we've conceded.
While some are overrating this squad we don't even look capable of winning a couple of games in a row, or even getting a couple of clean sheets.
I don't think anyone can argue someone else wouldn't get more out of this squad. This run has gone on long enough and it's no longer about whether we can be 2nd/3rd rather than 6th/7th - we're getting worse rather than improving and look set to finish in mid table nowhere near the top 6. Yes someone may do worse but it feels as if we're at the point where it'll continue to get worse if we stick with Bowyer.
Something clearly isn't right and Bowyer seems to know it. The players must do too, can't believe they're convinced by the number of changes and playing so many formations.
Going to be interesting to see what TS does and if Bowyer is sacked who he replaces him with.0 -
Did I ever tell you about my weekend in Blackpool 20 years agoCallumcafc said:Curbs ain't happening ffs, you all sound like that bloke who pined after his lost lover from Blackpool.3 -
Pssst... I dont think Beds is Southall, if he is then that is a bomb shellTodds_right_hook said:
Cheers Southall you prick 😂Bedsaddick said:
Why would he walk when he has a long contract?WhenIwasLittleBoy said:Personally I think he will walk rather than wait for the bullet. If he does go what happens to the back room staff do they go as well?
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Couldn’t it also be framed that the players with all those games think a game is won against lowly opposition before the ball has been kicked.Cafc43v3r said:This should be the easiest squad in the league to manage. Players that have played that many games don't need telling to close people down and stop the crosses/shots at source. They wouldn't have played 100 games if they did.
He either needs to go now (although it's 3 months late IMO) or Thomas needs to come out and say "Lee is here for the long term, he has my 100% support. He will get everything he needs in the summer".
Giving him until the end of the season achieves nothing. It actually encourages all the last minute rebuilding that has been used as Bowyer's defence.Obviously I understand the frustration with bowyer, but I don’t personally believe we’ve seen the best from the experienced players this season, and that’s also on them, not just fully on bowyer.8 -
It’s 13 years since Curbishley managed a club. He has had some roles at Fulham since but didn’t last long. As much as it would satisfy our yearning to have a club legend haul us out of this situation he shouldn’t be considered as a potential new manager. We would want someone to excite the fans and carry through TS’s plans.
If Bowyer does go before the end of the season then I suspect TS and Ged Roddy would make a statement of intent in their appointment in some way or other. If a caretaker were sought for the rest of the season I would go for Euell. I think he would deserve a crack at it.1 -
I think it's done. The atmosphere/energy post match show showed it. Curbs and Minto know he's a deadman walking and I believe if they weren't all friends tougher questions would be asked.
The players look like they don't care bar a few, we don't play good football at all, or rather we do in short little 5-10 minute spells and if we don't score in that time that's it.
The players aren't off the hook for me, most of them are a shambles and I would be happy to see a massive rebuild. The lack of heart from the majority of them is embarrassing.
I think Lee has given up as a result of his players putting in bang average performances, the players have had enough of Lee's negative demeanor probably and most fans have just had enough of not expecting to win a game anymore. I believe now is the right time, it wasn't a few weeks ago as that would have been pre-emptive imo but now it really is dire.
I don't like the aggressive posts towards him, this is a manager that gave me my favourite season following Charlton, he deserves respect
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We've been awful since our away defeat to Burton and there have been no signs of improvement. Enough is surely enough?Callumcafc said:
Based on the previous runs of good form he’s lead us on before. We can’t keep dropping points forever, football doesn’t work like that.thenewbie said:
Based on what though? Sincere question, not to be sarcastic or derogatory but what gives you any idea that the Bowyer of now could turn this around? What has he said or done to show any sign that after several months of deteriorating performances and results, it could just completely reverse itself?Callumcafc said:Honestly I’m just sad about the whole thing, with the results and with the bloodlust I’m seeing from our own fanbase. I genuinely believe that the results could still turn given a chance but it’s clear the overwhelming majority are no longer willing to give him the time that that would require.That means we should probably move on at this point, give it to Euell until the end of the season.
I agree inasmuch as I do think that our form can improve, and performances can get better. But I genuinely cannot see Bowyer as the man to do it. I would go as far as saying it might even be doing him a favor if he was to be sacked. He'd get the payoff and be free of the stress and pressure.
I thought he'd have been sacked weeks ago... The season now seems to have been wasted.
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Bloodlust....dear me.
I think you’d agree we have one of the best squads in the division. Bowyer has said it himself.
And just to be clear; I haven’t called him an offensive name. Quite the contrary. I badly wanted it to work out for Bowyer.For me though his time is up. It’s the manner of defeats that is the biggest concern.The players don’t look like they know what system they’re supposed to be playing and for all the talk of worldies and injuries, that is Bowyer’s responsibility.He’s saying it’s hard to gel the players, again that’s his job.
For me it’s now time to go a different direction. Let the new bloke have the rest of the season to assess the squad and work with Steve G/Ged or whoever to build a team for promotion.3 -
I'm expecting TS to sleep om it & make an announcement in the morning0
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Do you know when I would pinpoint when the change in Bowyer first became apparent? It was that open meeting with Southall where the fraud was being incredibly positive about the future following criticism that his previous words were a bit unambitious.
Bowyer looked like he didn't want to be there and proceeded to tell us all that he was having to play Gallagher more than was good for him. Whether that had any impact in what happened I would say possibly not. But I remember thinking, WTF!
Of course we can understand why he was downbeat, but that doesn't seem to have left him.0 -
I felt a bit sorry for bowyer in his interview.
I said it at the beginning of this bad run, we needed an experienced coach to help. I don’t understand why we didn’t. I’m assuming bowyers reluctance and stubbornness over TS saying no. It’s too late now, thanks for a great day at Wembley lee and good luck for the future.
euell as caretaker, curbs as consultant. Nit sure about Jackson. Cook or the cowleys for me.2 -
Naive to think senior players would come out and confirm there was any dressing room unrest.Callumcafc said:
There are a handful of fans that bring up every little thing to fault the bloke, sometimes contradictory criticism. Others spread rumours of dressing room unrest (later put to bed by Pratley/Watson). Some are calling him a prick etc. It’s totally unnecessary.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
He says he believes the results could still turn which suggests he has faith in Bowyer and accuses fans of 'bloodlust'.ForeverAddickted said:
Doesnt he say that its time to give it to someone else rather than persevere with Bowyer?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Why on earth do you want to persevere with a manager who is doing such a terrible job?Callumcafc said:Honestly I’m just sad about the whole thing, with the results and with the bloodlust I’m seeing from our own fanbase. I genuinely believe that the results could still turn given a chance but it’s clear the overwhelming majority are no longer willing to give him the time that that would require.That means we should probably move on at this point, give it to Euell until the end of the season.
Most fans want a decent manager.15 -
I honestly think he's known for a good few weeks.
Remember when he was bemoaning the transfer activity in Jan and how we were slow to act in getting players over the line?
And when you look at it TS really didn't over commit in the window.
You have to ask yourself was that because he didn't see Bowyer as a long term part of his plan?
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I think Lee will not be in charge for Saturday. The run of results against poor teams, the goals conceded and home results are too much. In terms of our 2 best managers of the past, they were both close enough to current players, Curbs had played with Robinson, Nelson, Gatting, Gritt etc. Powell had managed Kermit and Morrison at Leicester.
Its helpful to get someone relatively young who has current experience. Also TS runs a succesful business in the USA - generally they are more ‘hire and fire’ than UK businesses. I guess a stumbling block is Lee’s £450k a year contract with 2 years left.1 -
One or two of them is "on them", 7, 8, 9 and more isn't.stoneroses19 said:
Couldn’t it also be framed that the players with all those games think a game is won against lowly opposition before the ball has been kicked.Cafc43v3r said:This should be the easiest squad in the league to manage. Players that have played that many games don't need telling to close people down and stop the crosses/shots at source. They wouldn't have played 100 games if they did.
He either needs to go now (although it's 3 months late IMO) or Thomas needs to come out and say "Lee is here for the long term, he has my 100% support. He will get everything he needs in the summer".
Giving him until the end of the season achieves nothing. It actually encourages all the last minute rebuilding that has been used as Bowyer's defence.Obviously I understand the frustration with bowyer, but I don’t personally believe we’ve seen the best from the experienced players this season, and that’s also on them, not just fully on bowyer.
Cast your mind back 18 months and Pearce, Pratley, Purrington and others were throwing themselves in front of everything. Remember Brentford and Leeds at home?
Of the players that played today 4 or 5 played against Leeds. That game every man jack left everything on the pitch. Today they left most of it in the dressing room.
Stockley and Millar probably put the most effort in today and that tells you a lot.
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That just doesn’t make sense. The number of individual player mistakes and poor individual decision making over the last few months is borderline farcical. There’s nothing a manager can do when Pearce and Oshilaja run into each other, DJ doesn’t go with his runner at a throw in, Watson toes a ball on the edge of the box straight to the opponent, Pearce doesn’t deal with a long ball from the opposing keeper, there’s literally been dozens of them.Cafc43v3r said:This should be the easiest squad in the league to manage. Players that have played that many games don't need telling to close people down and stop the crosses/shots at source. They wouldn't have played 100 games if they did.
Blame him for starting 11s, substitutions, shape and tactics, style of play, collective player approach and attitude, potentially signings (though we really don’t know how much say he has in that),
But don’t let the players off the hook in their part in this over the last few months.17 -
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I think rewriting history to say the promotion and Wembley were just a fluke, or a lucky break, or even that we underperformed that season as a whole is extremely unfair on Bowyer. Whatever has happened since and why, that is a great achievement.
However that was then and this is now. And based on the choices made and decisions he has been making recently, asking whether he is STILL as good as we can expect is a perfectly valid question.3 -
I thought they were both onside when the header was made, so Deji was onside when he put it in. The linesman puts his flag up quickly and before it hits the crossbar. Good goal for me.LargeAddick said:
Well it was very tight and for me I’d agree with you. The Lino has one chance and that’s it. Some decisions are right, some wrong, it happens. At the end of the day though we didn’t really have a shot second half so who is really to blame Lee.MuttleyCAFC said:I thought Stockley was probably onside, but he didn't score and Deji looked offside to me from Stockley's header.1 -
I think you have to ask yourself why are these players finding themselves in situations where they are constantly making mistakes that, let's be fair, they wouldn't do usually.AFKABartram said:
That just doesn’t make sense. The number of individual player mistakes and poor individual decision making over the last few months is borderline farcical. There’s nothing a manager can do when Pearce and Oshilaja run into each other, DJ doesn’t go with his runner at a throw in, Watson toes a ball on the edge of the box straight to the opponent, Pearce doesn’t deal with a long ball from the opposing keeper, there’s literally been dozens of them.Cafc43v3r said:This should be the easiest squad in the league to manage. Players that have played that many games don't need telling to close people down and stop the crosses/shots at source. They wouldn't have played 100 games if they did.
Blame him for starting 11s, substitutions, shape and tactics, style of play, collective player approach and attitude, potentially signings (though we really don’t know how much say he has in that),
But don’t let the players off the hook in their part in this over the last few months.
For me it all goes back to confidence, gameplan, and consistency. All things that are exactly under the managers remit to get correct, and what unfortunately has been lacking for sometime now.
How long has it been now since we look utterly devoid of ideas from simple things such as throw ons. We barely ever seem to win a second ball, and when we are making defensive headers they are never cushioned towards a player that they know are there.
We have the odd moment of class when we move the ball, but mostly we look completely lost of a style of how to play and end up just inviting pressure on ourselves that lead to such mistakes happening.8 -
Some people only delude themselves J Block. The truth is always what they want it to be. I want Bowyer to be a success, I have said many positive things on here, but when it is obvious to you he has lost it, you have to reluctantly point it out, even when people don't want to listen or wish to slag you off.J BLOCK said:
Naive to think senior players would come out and confirm there was any dressing room unrest.Callumcafc said:
There are a handful of fans that bring up every little thing to fault the bloke, sometimes contradictory criticism. Others spread rumours of dressing room unrest (later put to bed by Pratley/Watson). Some are calling him a prick etc. It’s totally unnecessary.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
He says he believes the results could still turn which suggests he has faith in Bowyer and accuses fans of 'bloodlust'.ForeverAddickted said:
Doesnt he say that its time to give it to someone else rather than persevere with Bowyer?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Why on earth do you want to persevere with a manager who is doing such a terrible job?Callumcafc said:Honestly I’m just sad about the whole thing, with the results and with the bloodlust I’m seeing from our own fanbase. I genuinely believe that the results could still turn given a chance but it’s clear the overwhelming majority are no longer willing to give him the time that that would require.That means we should probably move on at this point, give it to Euell until the end of the season.
Most fans want a decent manager.
Same with Southall. When it was clear something was wrong, you get the people who don't want to believe it attacking those who could see it.
Football is a game for winners. Yesterdays winners can sadly be today's losers. If people don't like that, it isn't the modern game. It is the game.
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Then again we said that about Chris PowellCallumcafc said:hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Why on earth do you want to persevere with a manager who is doing such a terrible job?Callumcafc said:Honestly I’m just sad about the whole thing, with the results and with the bloodlust I’m seeing from our own fanbase. I genuinely believe that the results could still turn given a chance but it’s clear the overwhelming majority are no longer willing to give him the time that that would require.That means we should probably move on at this point, give it to Euell until the end of the season.
Most fans want a decent manager.
I just said moving on is what should be done at this point. I’m not sure your second sentence is necessary - obviously I want a decent manager and a successful team. Calm down.
Bowyer is a decent manager, who’s been losing his way recently. You don’t get a club promoted without having something about you.
If he left his role at CAFC, I don’t think it’ll be long before he does well elsewhere.3 -
I think I’ll believe them over someone who’s had it in for Bowyer for months.J BLOCK said:
Naive to think senior players would come out and confirm there was any dressing room unrest.Callumcafc said:
There are a handful of fans that bring up every little thing to fault the bloke, sometimes contradictory criticism. Others spread rumours of dressing room unrest (later put to bed by Pratley/Watson). Some are calling him a prick etc. It’s totally unnecessary.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
He says he believes the results could still turn which suggests he has faith in Bowyer and accuses fans of 'bloodlust'.ForeverAddickted said:
Doesnt he say that its time to give it to someone else rather than persevere with Bowyer?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Why on earth do you want to persevere with a manager who is doing such a terrible job?Callumcafc said:Honestly I’m just sad about the whole thing, with the results and with the bloodlust I’m seeing from our own fanbase. I genuinely believe that the results could still turn given a chance but it’s clear the overwhelming majority are no longer willing to give him the time that that would require.That means we should probably move on at this point, give it to Euell until the end of the season.
Most fans want a decent manager.5 -
But would our fans except him ,if we made the play offs and got promoted ,how would we feel thencarly burn said:Here's one for you.
.Neil Harris0 -
It doesn't matter what you believe. You are trying to put it on people who are sadly being proven right. Your world is what you want it to be and that is why it doesn't matter. J Block doesn't want Bowyer to be failing, he is merely pointing out that he is.0
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Pain in the arse of a manager that's caused us plenty of heartache over the years.doronron said:
But would our fans except him ,if we made the play offs and got promoted ,how would we feel thencarly burn said:Here's one for you.
.Neil Harris
I think he'd be great.0 -
Given some of the posts on this thread, I’d have to question that...MuttleyCAFC said:It doesn't matter what you believe. You are trying to put it on people who are sadly being proven right. Your world is what you want it to be and that is why it doesn't matter. J Block doesn't want Bowyer to be failing, he is merely pointing out that he is.3
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