Honestly I’m just sad about the whole thing, with the results and with the bloodlust I’m seeing from our own fanbase. I genuinely believe that the results could still turn given a chance but it’s clear the overwhelming majority are no longer willing to give him the time that that would require.
That means we should probably move on at this point, give it to Euell until the end of the season.
Why on earth do you want to persevere with a manager who is doing such a terrible job?
Most fans want a decent manager.
Doesnt he say that its time to give it to someone else rather than persevere with Bowyer?
He says he believes the results could still turn which suggests he has faith in Bowyer and accuses fans of 'bloodlust'.
There are a handful of fans that bring up every little thing to fault the bloke, sometimes contradictory criticism. Others spread rumours of dressing room unrest (later put to bed by Pratley/Watson). Some are calling him a prick etc. It’s totally unnecessary.
Naive to think senior players would come out and confirm there was any dressing room unrest.
I think I’ll believe them over someone who’s had it in for Bowyer for months.
Good for you, just like I believe the player that told me that he’s lost the plot weeks ago.
Like I believe the young player who said he was weird, a rubbish manager and treats the young players like they were kids. I haven't said all that before, just the rubbish manager bit, but I know who J Block is referring too and what he said to him and I know a younger player saying it and that informs me.
Callam can call J Block and me liars all he likes but when you know something you can't unknow it. Even, and this is a lesson for some, even if you would like to.
And whether these players are right or wrong, this is not what you want in a dressing room if you want to be successful.
Muttley in being patronising shocker.
Here’s what I know: on one side you have two senior pros who quite clearly stated there’s no dressing room unrest. Do I believe that everything is hunky dory at Sparrows Lane? No I’m not that stupid, players can see the constant formation changes etc and know that things aren’t working out as planned.
On opposite end of the spectrum, you have two blokes on an Internet forum (the two most vocal Bowyer critics at that) claiming they’ve spoken to squad players about Bowyers tactics and man management. You could well be telling the truth but I need more info before believing you.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle but I’m sick and tired of the bleating on here & Bowyer’s time is clearly up anyway.
You can see the truth every Saturday at 3pm and Tuesday at 7pm.
You said that the player said that they never talk tactics. I am not saying he didn’t say that, but that is bollocks by any stretch of the imagination. That puts the whole claim into question. There is more than enough to bang Bowyer over the head with so I would suggest that you drop this from the crime sheet.
Agreed. The player in questions said it quote on quote, but I imagine he was being pretty dramatic with that statement. However there must be some truth in the fact the players don’t think they go into enough detail tactically.
If you look at us over the past three months it has been as bad as I can remember it for many a year tactically. No shape, no ideas, no defence, no strategy. I can see where he is coming from.
Funnily enough I don’t think we have enough scouts sussing out the opposition. Players like specific information such as he dummy’s to the left and moves right etc etc. The higher up the pyramid the greater the details are and the specifics set to each individual player and especially the goalkeeper. I think this maybe what the player was talking about. Was he from a higher league?
I think they largely take the same approach against us at the Valley. Work hard, defend with numbers in the box and wait for them to gift you a goal or two.
I heard what I heard second hand from a trusted source, but J Block heard what he heard to his face.
I also believe Bielik when he said we had the best dressing room in football at Wembley. Bowyer should take immense credit from that statement. But something has changed and it probably isn't his fault, but even what you have all seen, not heard, you can reasonably deduce that we haven't had the best dressing room in football this season!
Three players left the club as a result of being dug out by the manager. Whatever you think of them as players, this affects their teammates too.
Agreed. Watson and Pratley seemed glad that Maddison was pushed out, but that doesn't mean that the whole squad agrees with them. Chuks liked an Instagram post from Maddison on Saturday for example
Honestly the Cowleys? I would honestly rather stick with Bow! Such an overrated pair! Huddersfield were toilet under them last year!
Who got relegated, bowyer or the cowleys?
were they toilet when they scored 5 against us?
It was only 4-0 and two of those goals from 90 minutes onwards after we had capitulated (see my post above). The 5-0 was 2016 Fraye’s last game. One manager had a squad of ex prem players, the other was fighting fires after being shafted in the January transfer window by a bloke with a super duper phone and a transfer embargo.
Honestly the Cowleys? I would honestly rather stick with Bow! Such an overrated pair! Huddersfield were toilet under them last year!
Who got relegated, bowyer or the cowleys?
were they toilet when they scored 5 against us?
They got 1 point in their first 9 games in charge! No other team has ever survived with such a shit show record!!!
Think you've got that one a bit wrong pal.
That's the second different poster that has blamed the Cowleys for something they weren't there for at Huddersfield in two days. Hardly supprising they get a lot of Charlton "facts" twisted as well.
Honestly the Cowleys? I would honestly rather stick with Bow! Such an overrated pair! Huddersfield were toilet under them last year!
Who got relegated, bowyer or the cowleys?
were they toilet when they scored 5 against us?
They got 1 point in their first 9 games in charge! No other team has ever survived with such a shit show record!!!
Think you've got that one a bit wrong pal.
That's the second different poster that has blamed the Cowleys for something they weren't there for at Huddersfield in two days. Hardly supprising they get a lot of Charlton "facts" twisted as well.
and the poster actually strengthens the argument for the Cowley's. Highlighting just how good a job they did keeping Huddersfield up after they lost 8 of our their first 9 games!
Actually yeah the Cowleys did well to keep Huddersfield up and were arguably sacked unfairly when you consider Huddersfields natural level, fortunate to be a championship side imo.
Doesn't change what I said before though, they do play boring football apparently and obviously long term I'm not sure that's what I want or a lot of fans want. Although saying that Mick McCarthy allegedly plays boring football but I remember them whopping us at the valley I think 3nil with him in charge and he ain't doing too bad at Cardiff now while Ipswich look set for another season in this league at least..
On paper the Cowleys have a league 2 winners medal under their belt, FA cup quarter finals, checkatrade trophy win. Right now anything seems more positive.
Honestly the Cowleys? I would honestly rather stick with Bow! Such an overrated pair! Huddersfield were toilet under them last year!
Who got relegated, bowyer or the cowleys?
were they toilet when they scored 5 against us?
They got 1 point in their first 9 games in charge! No other team has ever survived with such a shit show record!!!
The Cowley's did a fantastic job at Lincoln and went to Huddersfield when they had big earners who were the total opposite to what they were used to. Let's concentrate on Cafc and our problems.
I don't think Charlton and the Cowley's would be a good fit despite believing they have a decent CV.
Nathan Jones was good at Luton but again at Stoke too many big earners on the way down just like Huddersfield when they dropped.
Actually yeah the Cowleys did well to keep Huddersfield up and were arguably sacked unfairly when you consider Huddersfields natural level, fortunate to be a championship side imo.
Doesn't change what I said before though, they do play boring football apparently and obviously long term I'm not sure that's what I want or a lot of fans want. Although saying that Mick McCarthy allegedly plays boring football but I remember them whopping us at the valley I think 3nil with him in charge and he ain't doing too bad at Cardiff now while Ipswich look set for another season in this league at least..
On paper the Cowleys have a league 2 winners medal under their belt, FA cup quarter finals, checkatrade trophy win. Right now anything seems more positive.
Football is rarely boring when your team is winning - no matter what the brand of football is. Only neutrals might not find it enjoyable, but that's not something for us to worry about.
We were hardly scintillating during our 6 game winning run at the beginning of the season, but the joy that comes with a win always lifts the mood.
The Cowleys are a well respected duo at this level and would have to be in the conversation. What they achieved at Lincoln was nothing short of remarkable.
Including his caretaker spell, Bowyer has been in charge for nearly 3 years, so has been in charge longer than all of his predecessors other than Powell in the post Curbs era
Robinson did less than a year and a half, Powell 3 1/4 years, Parky 2 1/4 years, Pardew just under 2 years,
Actually yeah the Cowleys did well to keep Huddersfield up and were arguably sacked unfairly when you consider Huddersfields natural level, fortunate to be a championship side imo.
Doesn't change what I said before though, they do play boring football apparently and obviously long term I'm not sure that's what I want or a lot of fans want. Although saying that Mick McCarthy allegedly plays boring football but I remember them whopping us at the valley I think 3nil with him in charge and he ain't doing too bad at Cardiff now while Ipswich look set for another season in this league at least..
On paper the Cowleys have a league 2 winners medal under their belt, FA cup quarter finals, checkatrade trophy win. Right now anything seems more positive.
Football is rarely boring when your team is winning - no matter what the brand of football is. Only neutrals might not find it enjoyable, but that's not something for us to worry about.
We were hardly scintillating during our 6 game winning run at the beginning of the season, but the joy that comes with a win always lifts the mood.
The Cowleys are a well respected duo at this level and would have to be in the conversation. What they achieved at Lincoln was nothing short of remarkable.
Had a look at their title winning season, low scoring games and they never lost by more than one goal until their final game of the season. They only lost 7 times, 3 of those coming in their last 5 games. Sounds like they would certainly make us more organised if they're a genuine option.
If he isn’t sacked after that I really don’t know what Thomas is in this for, maybe just naivety but surely Ged is in his ear. He simply has to go.
I'm sure they've been talking. Thomas was the same as us. This is the last thing he expected looking at what bowyer did to get us promoted last time and then our 1st few games back in the Championship. And also our run earlier this season of 6 wins on the bounce. Like us, I'm sure he didn't see this coming but he will have been seeing it the last few weeks and he will have been talking to Roddy about it. Sangaard won't do anything until he has a plan in place but I'd be very surprised if he lets this go on for too much longer.
Karl Gobby Robinson had his 4-2-3-1 and just a plan A.
Lee Bowyer played a very flexible 3-4-3 tonight ! Both Oshilaja and Purrington turned up as left wingers and Purrs was a fox in the box for great periods of the match. We got worse when Ben P went off.
Lee has Plans A-Z of football formations. The players seem confused.
This should be the easiest squad in the league to manage. Players that have played that many games don't need telling to close people down and stop the crosses/shots at source. They wouldn't have played 100 games if they did.
He either needs to go now (although it's 3 months late IMO) or Thomas needs to come out and say "Lee is here for the long term, he has my 100% support. He will get everything he needs in the summer".
Giving him until the end of the season achieves nothing. It actually encourages all the last minute rebuilding that has been used as Bowyer's defence.
Couldn’t it also be framed that the players with all those games think a game is won against lowly opposition before the ball has been kicked.
Obviously I understand the frustration with bowyer, but I don’t personally believe we’ve seen the best from the experienced players this season, and that’s also on them, not just fully on bowyer.
One or two of them is "on them", 7, 8, 9 and more isn't.
Cast your mind back 18 months and Pearce, Pratley, Purrington and others were throwing themselves in front of everything. Remember Brentford and Leeds at home?
Of the players that played today 4 or 5 played against Leeds. That game every man jack left everything on the pitch. Today they left most of it in the dressing room.
Stockley and Millar probably put the most effort in today and that tells you a lot.
I said exactly this during the game. Brentford, Leeds & I thought Forest at home our players did absolutely everything to win, diving in front of & blocking everything. This season we don't even close anyone down. I wasn't at all confident of winning tonight and said if we lost he has to go. I think he'll go "by mutual consent" some time this week. I wish Lee well and thank him for the good times, but there really is no other sensible option.
I'm not normally optimistic at 1am in the morning after losing to the bottom team in the 3rd tier but we really can start from scratch under our enthusiastic owner.
Thomas Sandgaard can appoint a caretaker to the end of the season, say Jason Euell who I believe would improve the team (could he do worse !) A part time Curbs helping the infrastructure and chatting to TS about the way forward football wise would be a useful way to stop this club going backwards.
Stop calling the 3rd tier shit (even if it is) it's where we are and we need to vastly improve to make sure we are top 2 next season. Thanks Lee for your efforts.
As others have said, it's improbable that he can bring someone like Howe in as part of the five-year Premier League plan (apologies to ForeverAddickted for my naivety), so Sandgaard will need to do it in two bites.
He needs an experienced manager who will guarantee to get us out of League 1 by the end of next season ... and who can help to build a potential Championship-winning squad ... but who is probably not interested in staying on for the long haul.
It's at that point that people like Howe, Scott Parker etc (pick your own names) might become interested in the 'Charlton Project' and the experienced manager can hand over the nucleus of Sandgaard's 'EuroCharlton'.
If he's still in charge tomorrow morning how many more games do we think he has? He must surely be in the thin-ice threshold with TS after that result?
When I come back to a thread titled "Has Bowyer Lost it?" for the first time in a week and there are 1000 new posts.... you just know there is only one way it is going to go.
I can’t see us beating anyone now under Bowyer. I managed, reluctantly, to cash out my substantial bet on us finishing in the top half with a tiny profit. 3 points above 13th place now. Under Bows, we will be bottom half by the end of March.
I think that even Lee will be relieved when TS puts his reign to an end. We all wanted this to work out but, despite a brief run and some promising signs way back, it’s no longer sustainable. As others have said, this is a results business and we no longer expect to win against anyone in this league. The current batch of games were against very average teams who ‘Old Charlton’ expected to - and predictably used to - defeat. 0 points from Burton, 21 points from 23 games and a nightmare run in has sealed our fate this season.
The biggest concerns I have are around tactics, set up and team selection. Unfortunately, that falls to Lee, Lee and Lee. Why play an excellent target man with no one around him to receive his knockdowns? Isn’t that Ronnie’s strength? He sits on the bench whilst DJ is tasked with playing that role - out of position - and looks a shadow of the star player he was at Swindon, running around like a lost lamb. Five at the back at home against hapless, bottom of league 1 Burton? Why, why why? Best defender (Famewo) on the bench in a must win match? Constant format changes - none of which seem to work, do they?
Thomas: please let’s call time here and go another way. Sad but unavoidable.
Bowyers comments about 12 in 12 out next season seemed to me like he isn't up for a big rebuild? If that's the case then he should walk as we clearly aren't going up this year and the squad needs rebuilding.
If he sits down with TS and SG with a clear outline of who he wants in and what our plans are then it's down to TS to decide if he trusts that process. TS said he has a long term plan, did that involve a blip this season who knows. He's a business man. Most are cut throat but some believe that stability and over coming hurdles are the key to success. I'm inclined to think TS is the latter.
Not sure there is much left to say on the situation other than it's sad how it's turned out. After the Wembley win and Bowyer sticking by us when he could've so easily walked in the past 18 months, i'm sorry things are going to end like this.
I don't quite know what has gone wrong over the past couple of months but aside from the odd performance we've been dire since the end of November. 22 points in 20 games and 7 home games without a win is relegation form. That's not a bad patch or a blip, that is almost HALF A SEASON.
It's been obvious for weeks that Bowyer has no clue on his best team, his best formation and i'd question even on what tactics to adopt. In most games it almost looks like we cobbled a team together an hour before kick off. 3-4 changes to the starting lineup every game, (quite often) 2 subs at half time with more early in the second half suggests he has no confidence in anything with no idea on how to turn this round and it's been like this for weeks.
Obviously he's a Charlton man, so i'm not going to be one of those calling him this and that, telling him to fuck off etc. I'll always have an affection for what he's done for us but he either needs to resign today or Sandgaard needs to put him out of his misery. This is potentially the worst Charlton side in terms of performances in my entire lifetime and it simply cannot go on.
Get a new man in, give him time to work out this squad and what's needed for next season, start to pick a settled side, formation and pattern of play and get planning for a promotion assault next season.
Actually, you should watch the Bowyer post-match interview. I found it very, very telling. Lee knows that the excuses ‘well’ has run dry. I think he knows that Thomas will be calling him this morning and that the conversation will be a difficult one.
it’s interesting to hear Lee say that he doesn’t expect us to win against Blackpool, at home, 4 points below us, on Saturday. Blimey, couldn’t quite believe I heard a Charlton manager say that out loud.
Thank you Charlton for another restless night - just glad i didn't watch it. Lot of Man Love for LB, he has had a rotten 18 months with injuries to contend with but now is the time to go ...
Comments
Doesn't change what I said before though, they do play boring football apparently and obviously long term I'm not sure that's what I want or a lot of fans want. Although saying that Mick McCarthy allegedly plays boring football but I remember them whopping us at the valley I think 3nil with him in charge and he ain't doing too bad at Cardiff now while Ipswich look set for another season in this league at least..
On paper the Cowleys have a league 2 winners medal under their belt, FA cup quarter finals, checkatrade trophy win. Right now anything seems more positive.
The Cowley's did a fantastic job at Lincoln and went to Huddersfield when they had big earners who were the total opposite to what they were used to.
Let's concentrate on Cafc and our problems.
I don't think Charlton and the Cowley's would be a good fit despite believing they have a decent CV.
Nathan Jones was good at Luton but again at Stoke too many big earners on the way down just like Huddersfield when they dropped.
We were hardly scintillating during our 6 game winning run at the beginning of the season, but the joy that comes with a win always lifts the mood.
The Cowleys are a well respected duo at this level and would have to be in the conversation. What they achieved at Lincoln was nothing short of remarkable.
Robinson did less than a year and a half, Powell 3 1/4 years, Parky 2 1/4 years, Pardew just under 2 years,
Lee Bowyer played a very flexible 3-4-3 tonight !
Both Oshilaja and Purrington turned up as left wingers and Purrs was a fox in the box for great periods of the match. We got worse when Ben P went off.
Lee has Plans A-Z of football formations.
The players seem confused.
Brentford, Leeds & I thought Forest at home our players did absolutely everything to win, diving in front of & blocking everything.
This season we don't even close anyone down.
I wasn't at all confident of winning tonight and said if we lost he has to go.
I think he'll go "by mutual consent" some time this week.
I wish Lee well and thank him for the good times, but there really is no other sensible option.
I'm not normally optimistic at 1am in the morning after losing to the bottom team in the 3rd tier but we really can start from scratch under our enthusiastic owner.
Thomas Sandgaard can appoint a caretaker to the end of the season, say Jason Euell who I believe would improve the team (could he do worse !) A part time Curbs helping the infrastructure and chatting to TS about the way forward football wise would be a useful way to stop this club going backwards.
Stop calling the 3rd tier shit (even if it is) it's where we are and we need to vastly improve to make sure we are top 2 next season. Thanks Lee for your efforts.
Just saying.
The biggest concerns I have are around tactics, set up and team selection. Unfortunately, that falls to Lee, Lee and Lee. Why play an excellent target man with no one around him to receive his knockdowns? Isn’t that Ronnie’s strength? He sits on the bench whilst DJ is tasked with playing that role - out of position - and looks a shadow of the star player he was at Swindon, running around like a lost lamb. Five at the back at home against hapless, bottom of league 1 Burton? Why, why why? Best defender (Famewo) on the bench in a must win match? Constant format changes - none of which seem to work, do they?
Thomas: please let’s call time here and go another way. Sad but unavoidable.
Bowyers comments about 12 in 12 out next season seemed to me like he isn't up for a big rebuild? If that's the case then he should walk as we clearly aren't going up this year and the squad needs rebuilding.
If he sits down with TS and SG with a clear outline of who he wants in and what our plans are then it's down to TS to decide if he trusts that process. TS said he has a long term plan, did that involve a blip this season who knows. He's a business man. Most are cut throat but some believe that stability and over coming hurdles are the key to success. I'm inclined to think TS is the latter.
I don't quite know what has gone wrong over the past couple of months but aside from the odd performance we've been dire since the end of November. 22 points in 20 games and 7 home games without a win is relegation form. That's not a bad patch or a blip, that is almost HALF A SEASON.
It's been obvious for weeks that Bowyer has no clue on his best team, his best formation and i'd question even on what tactics to adopt. In most games it almost looks like we cobbled a team together an hour before kick off. 3-4 changes to the starting lineup every game, (quite often) 2 subs at half time with more early in the second half suggests he has no confidence in anything with no idea on how to turn this round and it's been like this for weeks.
Obviously he's a Charlton man, so i'm not going to be one of those calling him this and that, telling him to fuck off etc. I'll always have an affection for what he's done for us but he either needs to resign today or Sandgaard needs to put him out of his misery. This is potentially the worst Charlton side in terms of performances in my entire lifetime and it simply cannot go on.
Get a new man in, give him time to work out this squad and what's needed for next season, start to pick a settled side, formation and pattern of play and get planning for a promotion assault next season.
it’s interesting to hear Lee say that he doesn’t expect us to win against Blackpool, at home, 4 points below us, on Saturday. Blimey, couldn’t quite believe I heard a Charlton manager say that out loud.
Lot of Man Love for LB, he has had a rotten 18 months with injuries to contend with but now is the time to go ...