Post Match Thread: Charlton v Burton Albion | Tues 23rd Feb 2021

redbuttle said:

I actually have a feeling that Lee Bowyer doesn't have final say on team selection or tactics. Obviously I may be wrong but I believe that someone is interfering and that's what is causing the situation in the dressing room and behind the scenes and ultimately on the pitch.

I don't think anyone is interfering in that way but whereas before Bowyer had autonomy he now has Ged Roddy overseeing the playing side of the Club and he is a TS appointment. When push comes to shove only one person TS is going to back. 

Isawlearyplay said:

Alongside Curbs in his early manager years would be seen Les Reed - they often seemed in deep conversation. Reed was a distinguished youth coach who imparted technical knowledge. In all walks of life consultation/live supervision is recognised as being necessary 
Lennie Lawrence has been fulfilling such a role for several years 
LB often looks isolated as the game disintegrates before his eyes. This might be his preference. Time has come for him to be persuaded to find a modern day Reed or Lawrence 

Not sure how that conversation goes. 

Amos: mixed game, good saves, dodgy comms with defenders and beaten from distance
Matthews: good game overall
Pratley: a warrior without whom we'd have got an absolute drubbing
Pearce: dismal, slow, weak, made Oshilaja look like Franco Baresi
Oshilaja: defensively inept, that he was our best attacker for parts of the game is the inditement of the depths of wank to which so many sank
Purrington: good game overall
Jaiyesimi: shameful, didn't try a leg after 5 minutes, mainly culpable for Burton's first goal just waved the grey shirts forward, shouldn't have lasted 25 minutes let alone 55!
Shinnie: one good corner, then very quiet first half, absolutely nothing 2nd half, a masterful demonstration of hiding - bizarre indeed as he's playing for a contract - got away with a disgusting over the ball shoeing on the Burton bloke subbed off first half
Watson: he has his limitations but at least he's honest - unsurprisingly overrun when so many of his supposed colleagues were taking the piss
Millar: he's lost interest hasn't he? has pace but phoned in that performance
Stockley: worked his nuts off with shit service and worse support, he doesn't deserve to be flogging himself when so many in red are robbing their wages
Aneke: he was more interested than DJ!! barely any more effective
Referee: inconsistent especially with "high feet"  let down by the lino who doesn't get Offside

Bowyer: yet another defensive lineup in yet another formation unsurprisingly had players baffled by what they were supposed to be doing or where they were supposed to be - not helped by half the team opting out and/or being inept.  25 minutes in it's blatantly obvious to anybody that the "system" ain't working but LB's dimness/cussedness (delete as applicable) prevented him doing anything before 55 minutes had elapsed and Burton were in total control.  For the avoidance of doubt Burton are just about the worst team we've seen at the Valley, just above the phoney CAFC that turned outlast night.  Bowyer take note, you got humbled by the worst team in the division - you've given them a quarter of their points and a 6th of their goals in 2 matches out of their 28!!!  Humiliation isn;t the word
No cause for optimism, this is half a squad of duffers and piss takers propped up by a few honest journeymen led by a vision impaired tinkerer.
Sandgaard's pockets need to be deep indeed and his enthusiasm for his London football project has to be mighty.
6 or 7 points to avoid relegation are probably just about possible, more than that is cloud cuckoo land, even in this truly shit division.

Still feels nice to moan about the actual football again. Just need fans in the ground and we are back to normal.

Struggling to explain what’s changed in the last year. Up until Xmas we were doing well in the champ given our lack of money. Must be the ESI thing that’s affected him, because we struggled after they came in and Connor left for Swansea. Although we had a damn good shot at staying up, it did feel like we should have stayed up in the last 5 games. 

I've waited overnight so I can give a more measured view. It is .....you can't polish a turd.

I have just watched the post match interview and i actually thought he spoke very candidly was actually taking it on the chin. In the current climate posting support for LB seems to bring derision but I will anyway.

In the 36 years or so i've supported we've had good times and teams and really poor teams. This team is somewhere in the middle in reality. It's strange but as a fan you end up having this view of players as you think you know them so well, that makes them better than other team's players in the same league. We aren't shite but look at even the overhaul of our team vs earlier in the season, it's not hard to see that the sum of the parts isnt quite there yet. Yes we all want to go back up straight away but I dont think we are better than the teams above us, even on paper. We are all close and it's the cohesion from a whole pre season together, dedicated team building, man management which gives that edge, and i just dont think now is the time to sack Lee as he has almost had two seasons in one with this set of players.

After all he has done for us and for the way he stuck with when many would have bailed, he at least deserves the first 10 games of next season on his terms, in front of crowds (yes i do think no crowd makes the valley a neutral venue at best), so we can see what he can really do with consistent backing.

Look at Celtic, basically getting rid of Lennon because they wont win the league for the 40th year on the trot. No one has a divine right to win every game, nor to be given unlimited support no matter how many games they lose, but i do think LB does deserve a chance to turn this all around.

Under Slade and Robinson and all the other twonks Dushiterlat employed you could feel how rotten it was, for me it feels frustrating as hell, but not rotten. I'm keeping the faith and will be sad if he goes.

Its hard not to agree with most of the comments on here regarding Bowyers removal and he surely has to be held to account for the form of the team. He is making mistakes, his idea of playing Smyth as a wing back is a shocker and last nights wing backs and wingers idea is up there along side that. Where I will agree with his own analysis is that in the first 20 mins we should have been three up and then between Matthews, DJ and Amos we suddenly become a different team because they can't do the simple job of marking and in Amos's case dominating his six yard box. What I don't agree with on here is that this was a second half problem caused by substitutions, it wasn't, we had stopped doing the basics five minutes before conceding the goal, we almost conceded from a corner and they were starting to find gaps in our back five leading up to the goal. Its not that we had inexperienced players in that defence, from Amos, Pratley, Pearce and Deji they all talk and point out where they should be and who they should be marking. Why is it then that we concede one goal to go all square and suddenly become a different team ? This has to be a confidence issue and its the managers job to restore that confidence, he needs to play his best side and not rest people because of two games a week, our two centre halves got injured in training, not because of fixture congestion. Stick to the eleven and if it doesnt work, then move on Lee.

As much as I hate to say it but enough is enough,
Come on Lee do the decent thing and resign and leave with your head held high

Mortimerwasgod said:

After all he has done for us and for the way he stuck with when many would have bailed, he at least deserves the first 10 games of next season on his terms, in front of crowds (yes i do think no crowd makes the valley a neutral venue at best), so we can see what he can really do with consistent backing.

Not meaning to look as though I'm picking on you Morts, but we may as well change our name to Lee Bowyer Athletic the amount of times this view gets shared.

Leaving Bowyer in charge kills this season, but I just about understand leaving him in charge until the end, as top 6 was the goal and is still mathematically possible. But why this desire to ruin next season too? If we lost every game between now and the end of the season, does Bowyer still deserve 10 matches next year because he stuck around in the summer? That seems to be a sentiment in our fanbase, and I will never understand it.

Fraeye's spread out tactics, would be enough to defeat Bowyer's shoot ourselves in the foot tactics.

golfaddick said:

LoOkOuT said:

FishCostaFortune said:

LoOkOuT said:

Cafc43v3r said:

LoOkOuT said:

I’m finding it really hard to relate to the modern game. The way that money has corrupted the game is awful, but the effect it has had on the way supporters’ think (talk and act) is truly tragic. 

Managers have always been sacked.  Alf Ramsey was sacked.  Any Charlton manager who finishes in the bottom half of the 3rd division is likely to be sacked. 

I don't think it's a modern problem.  20 years ago we would all be saying this in the pub, that's the only difference. 

Saying that managers have always been sacked is ridiculous. I don’t mean to single you out, but it’s too great an example of exactly the point I’m making. That sentence means nothing. It’s a truism masquerading as insight.  Of course manager’s have always been sacked. No one thinks that managers should die in the job. It’s the kind of thing we hear all the time and it’s because we talk Premier League speak more often than not.

Should Bowyer be fired? Should he resign? Maybe, maybe not. It’s something worthy of debate.

Sure, but my point is much more about how it’s discussed. Maybe thirty years ago we’d all be discussing it in the pub. But I guarantee, it’d be a level above the rubbish spouted these day. We can’t help ourselves to debate the subject with respect for everyone involved. That’s a modern problem.

It’s not looking back with rose-colored glasses. I know things weren’t better then. But the money in the game has put players, managers, and pundits on a pedestal. There’s such a gulf between us all, that we’ve decided that it’s perfectly normal to spout off our frustrations in any way we feel. Bowyer stuck by this club and could do with some backing now that things aren’t going his way. I’m happy to debate whether that’s justified. I’d like to read people’s opinions. But there’s less and less of that to engage with. It’s invectives and vile. That’s what so much of “being a supporter” is now reduced to. And that’s tragic.

I think you're getting a football/money issue and social media issue totally mixed up. 

Considering people air they views about everything in the same way over social media, its easy to see that it's not just a 'modern game money' issue, and just an issue that social media has allowed humans basically to act like the animals we are.

Maybe. I’ve made a couple of amendments to make my argument clearer. But to your point, taking Twitter as an example: take the other realm where this is manifest in a similar way: celebrities. It’s because these people (celebrities and footballers) are elevated to another realm (for the money machine). They live lives most don’t get a sniff at. And at that point, we’ve decided they’re fair game (especially behind a keyboard). Of course it’s fair game to criticise them. To argue against them, or what they’ve done, or whatever. The difference is, everyone takes it personally. And they make their criticism’s personal. And then they make that personal attack vile. And that’s what the premier league circus has done to the game.

Don't they me wrong as I don't think there is a place for keyboard warriors or social media trolls........but the players do have to think themselves lucky that they weren't playing in front of 15k fans tonight. They would have got dogs abuse & some. 

"You're not fit to wear the shirt"

Well said @golfaddick. I don't normally ever boo but that rubbish last night having followed the previous 10-15 matches would have had me absolutely seething. 

addick19 said:

Bedsaddick said:

Terrible. 

I think TS and Jed Roddy have a busy couple of months ahead getting a replacement. 

Put in JJ or Jason in as caretaker and take our time getting the right man . 

Thomas must wonder what he’s let himself in for ! 

I think Roddy may be part of the problem, just a couple of things I've heard. However, after the performances we've witnessed over the past few weeks, things have to change. So bloody depressing as I believe we have some quality players in the squad (with one or two exceptions) really don't see what Schwartz brings to the party; seems very static with little or no physical presence and the play goes round him -or worse-nowhere near him. Mid-table for me. Proper close season with new players - especially as no wage cap nonsense and go again. Fans back will make a lot of difference too.

Again, sorry, but what have you heard ?

soapy_jones said:

Miserableoldgit said:

addick19 said:

Bedsaddick said:

Terrible. 

I think TS and Jed Roddy have a busy couple of months ahead getting a replacement. 

Put in JJ or Jason in as caretaker and take our time getting the right man . 

Thomas must wonder what he’s let himself in for ! 

I think Roddy may be part of the problem, just a couple of things I've heard. However, after the performances we've witnessed over the past few weeks, things have to change. So bloody depressing as I believe we have some quality players in the squad (with one or two exceptions) really don't see what Schwartz brings to the party; seems very static with little or no physical presence and the play goes round him -or worse-nowhere near him. Mid-table for me. Proper close season with new players - especially as no wage cap nonsense and go again. Fans back will make a lot of difference too.

Again, sorry, but what have you heard ?

Apparently Ged has changed the custard in the SL canteen to strawberry flavour!  Bows and JJ went ape!

Do they prefer Banana 🍌