Yet another, what has become typical, debacle of a home performance.
@Len\'s_little_girl described DJ as a shit Lloyd Sam yesterday. I agreed with her are we being fair? It looked to me as if he gave the ball away at the start of the move that led to Blackpool's second goal which prompted her comment but he hasn't impressed me since he joined.
Pratley is a spoiler and I like him for that. It is a valid tactic in my books to kick opponents within the limits of not getting sent off. When you are playing a team with good players he becomes very useful. Less so when you want to dominate a team with your superior football but a good sub to bring on to help close a game.
Bowyer has recently subbed him in anticipation of a red and he should have done so yesterday whilst we were still in the game. It wasn't a marginal decision that could go wrong but a stupid decision that was likely to go wrong.
Stockley has been very good in his performances since joining. However i feel that having him up there has contributed in a way to our awful tactical approach to games. All the back four want to do is boot the ball up to him. leaving our midfield to try and win the second ball which has been proven they are incapable of doing due to their lack of pace and energy. It also means our midfield and wingers rarely create a move by themselfs.
This is something Bowyer should be able to stop but he seems fine with it.
Only seen the goals and reds so not been influenced by what sounded a turgid performance, but the second penalty is a joke and I can’t really see from the angle what Pratley did so wrong considering he’d just been take out. Player reaction got him sent off there.
Equally Chuks red has a question mark against it, though he’s fairly non bothered reaction tells you just how much some of them are not 100% with us at the moment.
I know there is a shedload wrong at the moment and some people don’t believe there is such thing as luck. But the amount of key decisions, woodwork etc in recent months that haven’t fallen our way is sizeable.
Must have been a fairly big black cat that Bowyer ran over
Stockley has been very good in his performances since joining. However i feel that having him up there has contributed in a way to our awful tactical approach to games. All the back four want to do is boot the ball up to him. leaving our midfield to try and win the second ball which has been proven they are incapable of doing due to their lack of pace and energy. It also means our midfield and wingers rarely create a move by themselfs.
This is something Bowyer should be able to stop but he seems fine with it.
Totally agree. If we're going to play route one at least be good at it. We just seem to hoof the ball with no follow-up. There's no plan there. He's a good player who has made us worse.
What Pratley did yesterday was get booked without actually hurting the player. I am not advocating hurting opponents, but why would you risk that second booking on a powder puff gesture like that? It was ridiculously stupid and accurately called by Lisbie before Bowyer came out with his nonsense.
The ref was poor but the first was a penalty. The Pratley sending off was 100% correct. The second penalty was a poor decision and the Aneke sending off was very harsh but we probably won't win an appeal because it was probably a booking so then it becomes an interpretation issue rather than something the referee missed.
You are probably right re the appeal, we never seem to get them, but looking at your comment i feel that it was just a coming together resulting from the momentum of Aneke's jump with the defender and surely not even a yellow, if we gave a yellow for that then what's the point of challenging a ball in the air, you naturally use your arms when jumping.
Just to add to what I said above,I should have said that Millar has also done ok but why was no centre back signed during the window when the need for one was clear to all supporters
This managerial “sack race” started to reach epidemic proportions when the transfer windows were introduced. Because you can’t change the players for much of the season, the only thing you can do is change the manager. As a consequence, managers’ tenure is on the whole much shorter than it used to be.
We know as well as any club that stability in the managerial chair is a vital ingredient to success in the pitch. If TS gets rid of Bowyer now (and we’re not even in a run of defeats), what happens when the next manager actually is on a run of defeats? Sack him as well? We need stability which is hopefully what TS will give us, and part of that also means keeping Lee Bowyer in charge.
No real pace to play off the striker isn’t helping either. Washington isn’t a slouch but I don’t think he has raw speed like Leko/KAG did.
Finishing aside, Josh Parker was pretty quick and suited Bowyers style of working the channels.
I think this year we’ve focused too heavily on recruiting names like Watson and Washington rather than players that suited Bowyers 442 diamond.
Thats a fair shout if we had owners in the summer that weren't complete fucking crooks or a January window where we weren't only able to pay players 500 quid a week. You then have to take a few calculated gambles and they haven't all paid off
Nigel Pearson subbed a young player during added time in the first half - he didn't even wait until half time - as he saw that he was in danger of picking up a second yellow.
Players are afraid to play because they don’t have confidence in what they’re being asked to do. They’re hiding. I am certain that someone new coming in right now getting them to do the simple things would make a massive difference. This might not be our best ever bunch of players but they are better than what we’re seeing. Not all Bowyers fault but most of it is.
Ok do another farce of a result. And everyone trying to put their finger on the main issue has been covered extensively. After sleeping on it I have come to a couple of concerns. Now I like LB, but my patience has been severely tested, so what makes a manager of the people go from hero to zero in 6 months?
Yes, he has made some horrendous decisions over that period, from publicly lashing out at players, fans, refs, and Uncle Tom cobbly and all. You could say this is pure frustration at a team not performing. Plus he is still learning his trade, and we have seen a marked reduction in the public player blame game.
But my concern is this, why alienate our academy players, ones which were on the brink? Because his own comment after the game about players taking their opportunity when it comes, is somewhat pointless, when you have tried it on all the current players, and it hasn’t happened, so academy players are the only option left to try! And the treatment of Williams and Morgan, cannot sit well with the players.
His decision to substitute 4 players at half time, and not see what everyone else saw regarding Pratley, who was definitely up for the fight, but his failure to use his maturity and experience to control himself, again, was clear. I do not believe LB was not aware of the outcome. And Pratley does have history here. one of many weird decisions, not in keeping with the Bows of old. Oh and on Watson/Pratley, I do think Watson is a much tidier player on the ball. But he doesn’t look like the solid player we were led to believe he was.
Therefore the question must be asked as to why does he do this?
Is it just his bad judgement? I’m not sure, I think he has shown he is quite shrewd in the past. Is it pure frustration? Possibly. Is it the players? I’ve stated before, I think these players are perfectly capable of mounting a challenge, but there is not cohesion. Are they not trying? On yesterday’s evidence, I don’t think so, quite a few remonstrated over decisions, and carried that on after the game. Yes I think quite a few went missing, but was that out of frustration?
Is their another reason? Has our knight in shining armour upset the apple cart with new personnel? I could understand another agenda if TS doesn’t rate LB, but wanted the fanbase onside, so has engineered LB’s implosion. It’s not unfathomable, but unlikely. There is of course TS’s commitment to get professionals in to analyse the injury situation long term, which could be why we constantly get this “players cant play Saturday and Tuesday”. Well, that doesn’t pan out for me. Footballers love to play, if they are so fragile, why bring them in. And I go back to academy players, young, enthusiastic, may not be technically there or experienced, but they can play two games a week, for a while anyway.
But with LB’s comment about TS backing him because he knows what is going on, sort of dismisses the agenda argument.
Only time will tell, but normally if there is that much unrest in the camp, something gets leaked out. Or is just as simple as a manager and his staff trying their utmost with everything they can with what they have to get that winning formula, but bad luck and human error is just constantly, kicking us in the teethe. Testing all of us, but all we can do is see it through, and hope that things do finally get better!
Hopefully the more emotional comments will be calming down by now . . .
The way I see it is that all our problems stem from one error.
A fundemental mistake was made at the start of this season when Gunter, Ossie and Pearce were seen as back up to Inniss and Famewo. In this division we needed 4 specialist centre halfs and then back up - they get more bookings and injuries then any other part of the team.
Bless his cotton socks but Pearce is past his best and Ossie is just not a centre half at this level, 5th or 6th choice utility fine. Gunter plays well as a right back but would a centre forward be afraid of him?
So since November we have been watching a North Atlantic ferry setting sail twice a week with the bow doors open - and every other club can see that. Same problem every week, same result. They come to play us smelling blood and know they can beat us. The sight of Evans from Gillingham screaming '2nd ball, 2nd ball' time after time said it all, they know we can't clear the ball from the back effectively and we are going to be missing crosses.
That would have a bad effect on any team and for it to happen twice a week for so long must be utterly demoralising for the whole club. Look at how Liverpool have struggled in the same situation.
I am very sad to see the number of people that are calling for Bow's head, he has done his best and no one is infallible. We couldn't find a more committed and respected manager for our club.
We have to put this season down as a lesson in how to over promote the club's fortunes and start building. We won't get relegated but we just have to settle for what we have got and plan the signings for the summer.
Mr Sandgaard, you have every fans thanks for rescuing us and everything you say is with the best intentions, but please lets learn the lesson of a little humility and less over promotion which gives false hope to so many.
That anyone can still support keeping LB on is truly staggering.
There is no evidence whatsoever that he has the necessary skills to turn things around; in fact every week he makes the situation worse with his comments. No wonder his players (apart from a couple of his favourites) hate him - that much is patently obvious. Yesterday was clearly a cry for help from a squad that wants their toxic and negative manager gone.
How can you have a manager that appears to hate most of his players? No wonder they won't play for him.
LB now needs to go as he is actively damaging the club; who would want to send their talented young loan players to us now? He destroys their confidence and makes them worse. Bollocks to that.
Leaving him in post is insane. There is nothing to suggest things will improve; indeed, they will only get worse and the damage done will increase and the work required to put things right will get more and more over time. It was clear three months ago that he had lost the plot. He should have gone then, but I understand TS's reluctance to do so. However, in that three months he has put the final nails in the coffin of our season, meaning we now have more chance of being relegated than promoted. How anyone can defend that is mystifying. Any business going from disaster to disaster would be put in special measures; action would be taken.....but, nothing. Keep destroying the club from the inside, Lee; you've earned the right to be as shit as you please, it seems.
Currently, TS needs to add another five years onto his plan to take us to greatness, because it looks like we'll have to write off next season as well, if he given a new squad of talented players to turn into shit.
In an attempt to try to understand the rationale for believing that keeping him on will lead to a change in our fortunes, I asked for someone, anyone, to tell me what he is actually good at...you know, the skills required to be a good manager; tactics, training, man-management. Still nothing.
That says it all.
So, therefore only reason to support LB is blind loyalty. It is interesting that so many choose the manager over the team that we support, because every day he is still with us he damages our club further and reduces our chances of success.
This managerial “sack race” started to reach epidemic proportions when the transfer windows were introduced. Because you can’t change the players for much of the season, the only thing you can do is change the manager. As a consequence, managers’ tenure is on the whole much shorter than it used to be.
We know as well as any club that in the managerial chair is a vital ingredient to success in the pitch. If TS gets rid of Bowyer now (and we’re not even in a run of defeats), what happens when the next manager actually is on a run of defeats? Sack him as well? We need stability which is hopefully what TS will give us, and part of that also means keeping Lee Bowyer in charge.
We are on a run of 22 points in 21 games - are you okay with that? Sacking a manager after a bad run of 5 or 6 games is not a good idea but we've been dire for nearly half a season and are getting worse.
Most clubs would have sacked their manager by now for performing so poorly - I'm sure Lee knows that.
If you have to make four, FOUR, substitutions at half time you've picked the wrong team at the start. An admission of failure. Bowyer is saying some players are not trying, some people on here are saying players are under performing. If it was one or two players you could understand it but if the whole team is under performing then the problem is not with the players but with the management. I'm sick and tired of reading on here that we should be loyal and give more time to Bowyer because he could have left in the past but he stayed. Has anyone got any hard evidence that is the case or was it all rumour? If Bowyer had the best interests of the club at heart he would negotiate his exit with Thomas before the situation gets even worse as I cannot see it getting any better. Charlton Athletic Football Club is first and foremost over and above any individual and Bowyer needs to go now. Whoever gets the hot seat next may or may not be the messiah but not doing anything is not the answer. I liked Bowyer and appreciate his previous success but his time is over. Agree or disagree that is how I feel.
As much as I have loved being on the ‘journey’ with Bowyer,
I am sorry to say that I think it is now time for a change.
He said that as the season went on we would get stronger and
go on a winning run.
But the exact opposite has happened.
He said that he improved players coming to Charlton.
But, how many players this season have improved?
From what I have seen Mattsen, Watson, Morgan, Gilbey and
many others have gone backward.
Curbs called it before a ball was kicked yesterday, that by
playing two wingers, we would be overrun in midfield.
This is the latest in several bizarre team selections, that
have left the players confused and lacking in confidence.
In my opinion, this has been going since Gillingham away in
November
Bowyer looks out of his depth, trying to find a winning
formula since then.
He seems to have lost the dressing room and blaming players
publicly doesn’t help.
I can’t see him being able to turn this around.
We all know about the problems he has faced, with poor
owners and wage caps, and we all have some sympathy for that,
But, we are now a poor team in a poor league, who for the
rest of the season could be looking over their shoulders at relegation struggle
if things are allowed to continue as they are.
Absolutely agree, time and time again we are beaten before a ball is kicked, Blackpool FC must have smiled when they saw our team sheet, a two man midfield consisting of Shinnie and Pratters, as a consequence we can't compress midfield, we can't play a high line, we can't press a defence and we can't play off side.
Examples of bad game planning:
Blackpool, the two man midfield overrun, no ineffective wingers because of it (I'm sure Curbs mentioned three times before KO)
Burton, overlapping wing backs and wingers, even a overlapping Centre back FFS. (Karel Fraeye the wiggling octopus formation 6 1 3) comes to mind!
Fleetwood, 1st half we did not press with the wind behind, we hit the ball long, 2nd half did not play the ball over the top into the wind, instead we try to play against the press, cos we are really good at that!
Gillingham, JFC goes off when he's bossing midfield, we throw on a right winger, we loose midfield.
The midfield has been our principle issue, can't recall the last time we caught someone off side, as the back four are so scared they are sat so deep its unreal, what that does is give team after team the whole of the midfield to play in. There is a blatant absence of game management.
I would suggest the experienced pros we have in the squad can all see where our issues lay, we listen post match interviews where the failing are always our players not doing what they are told, I actually think the failure is that they are doing what they are told, and generally that is brain dead, headless football, wrong or no game plans.
Sadly there is only one party to "carry that can" and only one party that can correct it.
Thomas you need to act soon, I can't see where seven more points are coming from.
This managerial “sack race” started to reach epidemic proportions when the transfer windows were introduced. Because you can’t change the players for much of the season, the only thing you can do is change the manager. As a consequence, managers’ tenure is on the whole much shorter than it used to be.
We know as well as any club that in the managerial chair is a vital ingredient to success in the pitch. If TS gets rid of Bowyer now (and we’re not even in a run of defeats), what happens when the next manager actually is on a run of defeats? Sack him as well? We need stability which is hopefully what TS will give us, and part of that also means keeping Lee Bowyer in charge.
We are on a run of 22 points in 21 games - are you okay with that? Sacking a manager after a bad run of 5 or 6 games is not a good idea but we've been dire for nearly half a season and are getting worse.
Most clubs would have sacked their manager by now for performing so poorly - I'm sure Lee knows that.
This season is now written off.
We've been very poor for about 2 years now. If it wasn't for our little run earlier in the season we'd be in a relegation fight again
I think LB is burnt out; I blame ESI and everything he had to deal with. I think he needs to be made an offer to resign. We aren’t going to get relegated so any temporary appointment will do until the right person comes available at the end of the season. Clear out the players that need to be cleared out, reset, and start again
The squad next season will be what it is, but when it is obvious the manager is the problem, it is not fair to be too critical of the players. Some of the Bowyer lovers look like they are trying to move the agenda to them.
Yes bowyer is part of the problem, but the players are not ???
The squad next season will be what it is, but when it is obvious the manager is the problem, it is not fair to be too critical of the players. Some of the Bowyer lovers look like they are trying to move the agenda to them.
Yes bowyer is part of the problem, but the players are not ???
The players are underperforming absolutely but LB keeps saying they haven’t had time to gel, how does he expect them to do so if they have never been in a settled formation, team or playing style? Add into the mix his horrendous man management style that borders on bullying and it’s a recipe for disaster.
The more it goes on the more I can’t hwlp but feel Bow got lucky with a very good league one squad last time we were here. I’m not sure many managers would have failed to get into the top 6 with that team, many would have achieved automatic promotion.
Thanks for everything Lee but it really is time to go.
None of us have a clue on what the players opinion of LB actually is and any speculation is a guessing game. But you cannot argue with the facts, the team is a total shambles, players like Millar who looked pure class when he came here now look shite. There doesnt seem to be any structure or gameplan other than to hit every ball to stockley and hope something happens. That is down to the manager and nobody else, yesterday if the team wasnt doing what he wanted I would have thought he would have taken his hands out of his pockets and given some direction to the players. It is 100% clear to anyone watching that LB has become devoid of any ideas and is behaving like a petulant child when things are not going their way. I stopped watching the post match interviews 4 games ago because quite frankly they are painful to watch. I dont think TS will do anything at the moment as there is no advantage in doing so the season is over and unless we get dragged into a relegation fight he will leave as is. However if I were him I wouldnt be trusting LB to rebuild in the Summer
What Pratley did yesterday was get booked without actually hurting the player. I am not advocating hurting opponents, but why would you risk that second booking on a powder puff gesture like that? It was ridiculously stupid and accurately called by Lisbie before Bowyer came out with his nonsense.
The ref was poor but the first was a penalty. The Pratley sending off was 100% correct. The second penalty was a poor decision and the Aneke sending off was very harsh but we probably won't win an appeal because it was probably a booking so then it becomes an interpretation issue rather than something the referee missed.
You are probably right re the appeal, we never seem to get them, but looking at your comment i feel that it was just a coming together resulting from the momentum of Aneke's jump with the defender and surely not even a yellow, if we gave a yellow for that then what's the point of challenging a ball in the air, you naturally use your arms when jumping.
A yellow because his elbow was in a position to contact. Even with no intent, it can be deemed dangerous.
The squad next season will be what it is, but when it is obvious the manager is the problem, it is not fair to be too critical of the players. Some of the Bowyer lovers look like they are trying to move the agenda to them.
Yes bowyer is part of the problem, but the players are not ???
The problem with the players IS Bowyer. They are left as baffled and demoralised as we are. Who honestly is going to perform to their best under a manager who thinks you are the problem he's got?
Bowyers concerns about lack of commitment make it look a strange decision to let Lapslie go and bring in someone like Smith with the money saved. Lapslie had his flaws but effort was certainly never one. I’d rather be watching a midfield of Lapslie and Morgan than Watson and Shinnie right now, even if it might not dramatically change the results.
What a miss JFC has been as well. Didn’t think I’d be saying that, in August. One of the few who I think has consistently tried to drive the team forward and lead by example (in a good way) through this poor run. There’s been a even bigger drop off in performances since he got injured.
Bowyers concerns about lack of commitment make it look a strange decision to let Lapslie go and bring in someone like Smith with the money saved. Lapslie had his flaws but effort was certainly never one. I’d rather be watching a midfield of Lapslie and Morgan than Watson and Shinnie right now, even if it might not dramatically change the results.
Lapslie took up space in the Salary Cap, Smith did not... there is your answer straight away
Comments
@Len\'s_little_girl described DJ as a shit Lloyd Sam yesterday. I agreed with her are we being fair? It looked to me as if he gave the ball away at the start of the move that led to Blackpool's second goal which prompted her comment but he hasn't impressed me since he joined.
Bowyer has recently subbed him in anticipation of a red and he should have done so yesterday whilst we were still in the game. It wasn't a marginal decision that could go wrong but a stupid decision that was likely to go wrong.
This is something Bowyer should be able to stop but he seems fine with it.
Finishing aside, Josh Parker was pretty quick and suited Bowyers style of working the channels.
I think this year we’ve focused too heavily on recruiting names like Watson and Washington rather than players that suited Bowyers 442 diamond.
We know as well as any club that stability in the managerial chair is a vital ingredient to success in the pitch. If TS gets rid of Bowyer now (and we’re not even in a run of defeats), what happens when the next manager actually is on a run of defeats? Sack him as well? We need stability which is hopefully what TS will give us, and part of that also means keeping Lee Bowyer in charge.
Bristol City went on to beat Swansea
His decision to substitute 4 players at half time, and not see what everyone else saw regarding Pratley, who was definitely up for the fight, but his failure to use his maturity and experience to control himself, again, was clear. I do not believe LB was not aware of the outcome. And Pratley does have history here.
one of many weird decisions, not in keeping with the Bows of old.
Oh and on Watson/Pratley, I do think Watson is a much tidier player on the ball. But he doesn’t look like the solid player we were led to believe he was.
Therefore the question must be asked as to why does he do this?
Is it the players? I’ve stated before, I think these players are perfectly capable of mounting a challenge, but there is not cohesion. Are they not trying? On yesterday’s evidence, I don’t think so, quite a few remonstrated over decisions, and carried that on after the game. Yes I think quite a few went missing, but was that out of frustration?
There is no evidence whatsoever that he has the necessary skills to turn things around; in fact every week he makes the situation worse with his comments. No wonder his players (apart from a couple of his favourites) hate him - that much is patently obvious. Yesterday was clearly a cry for help from a squad that wants their toxic and negative manager gone.
How can you have a manager that appears to hate most of his players? No wonder they won't play for him.
LB now needs to go as he is actively damaging the club; who would want to send their talented young loan players to us now? He destroys their confidence and makes them worse. Bollocks to that.
Leaving him in post is insane. There is nothing to suggest things will improve; indeed, they will only get worse and the damage done will increase and the work required to put things right will get more and more over time. It was clear three months ago that he had lost the plot. He should have gone then, but I understand TS's reluctance to do so. However, in that three months he has put the final nails in the coffin of our season, meaning we now have more chance of being relegated than promoted. How anyone can defend that is mystifying. Any business going from disaster to disaster would be put in special measures; action would be taken.....but, nothing. Keep destroying the club from the inside, Lee; you've earned the right to be as shit as you please, it seems.
Currently, TS needs to add another five years onto his plan to take us to greatness, because it looks like we'll have to write off next season as well, if he given a new squad of talented players to turn into shit.
In an attempt to try to understand the rationale for believing that keeping him on will lead to a change in our fortunes, I asked for someone, anyone, to tell me what he is actually good at...you know, the skills required to be a good manager; tactics, training, man-management. Still nothing.
That says it all.
So, therefore only reason to support LB is blind loyalty. It is interesting that so many choose the manager over the team that we support, because every day he is still with us he damages our club further and reduces our chances of success.
Absolutely baffling.
Most clubs would have sacked their manager by now for performing so poorly - I'm sure Lee knows that.
This season is now written off.
Bowyer is saying some players are not trying, some people on here are saying players are under performing. If it was one or two players you could understand it but if the whole team is under performing then the problem is not with the players but with the management.
I'm sick and tired of reading on here that we should be loyal and give more time to Bowyer because he could have left in the past but he stayed.
Has anyone got any hard evidence that is the case or was it all rumour?
If Bowyer had the best interests of the club at heart he would negotiate his exit with Thomas before the situation gets even worse as I cannot see it getting any better.
Charlton Athletic Football Club is first and foremost over and above any individual and Bowyer needs to go now.
Whoever gets the hot seat next may or may not be the messiah but not doing anything is not the answer.
I liked Bowyer and appreciate his previous success but his time is over.
Agree or disagree that is how I feel.
Examples of bad game planning:
Blackpool, the two man midfield overrun, no ineffective wingers because of it (I'm sure Curbs mentioned three times before KO)
Burton, overlapping wing backs and wingers, even a overlapping Centre back FFS. (Karel Fraeye the wiggling octopus formation 6 1 3) comes to mind!
Fleetwood, 1st half we did not press with the wind behind, we hit the ball long, 2nd half did not play the ball over the top into the wind, instead we try to play against the press, cos we are really good at that!
Gillingham, JFC goes off when he's bossing midfield, we throw on a right winger, we loose midfield.
The midfield has been our principle issue, can't recall the last time we caught someone off side, as the back four are so scared they are sat so deep its unreal, what that does is give team after team the whole of the midfield to play in. There is a blatant absence of game management.
I would suggest the experienced pros we have in the squad can all see where our issues lay, we listen post match interviews where the failing are always our players not doing what they are told, I actually think the failure is that they are doing what they are told, and generally that is brain dead, headless football, wrong or no game plans.
Sadly there is only one party to "carry that can" and only one party that can correct it.
Thomas you need to act soon, I can't see where seven more points are coming from.
If it wasn't for our little run earlier in the season we'd be in a relegation fight again
The more it goes on the more I can’t hwlp but feel Bow got lucky with a very good league one squad last time we were here. I’m not sure many managers would have failed to get into the top 6 with that team, many would have achieved automatic promotion.
Thanks for everything Lee but it really is time to go.