Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point.ย No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.ย ย
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
How do you know that for a fact?ย
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.ย
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?ย
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
Let's see how many 40 year old biological females are competing at the Olympics
Sorry, I don't get your point. So being young is an unfair advantage?
I don't think all gold medals are entirely equal though. All amazing and justified in their own way, just not entirely comparable.
I also don't think it is completely fair to compare total of medals won e.g.ย Charlotte Dujardin compared to Katherine Grainger. I think the 62 year old Australian eventer demonstrates it is possible to compete for longer and at a greater age in some sports than others. Also, some sports such as swimming and gymnastics have the opportunity to compete in multi-events.
Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point.ย No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.ย ย
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
How do you know that for a fact?ย
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.ย
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?ย
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
Because you chose to ignore my last point completely.ย
Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point.ย No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.ย ย
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
How do you know that for a fact?ย
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.ย
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?ย
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
Because you chose to ignore my last point completely.ย
No I didn't. Just because you have an advantage, unfair or otherwise, doesn't mean you would win.
Have you seen the comments by trans golfer Alison Perkins who doesn't think she should compete against women?
Genuinely think they'd be better in football than normal penalties (in a shoot-out only).ย Got.tried in the MLS & dismissed as a daft Americanism, but I think they are more exciting and there's more skill to scoring and saving them.
I enjoyed the shootout, but normally thought they try to hit it early where the goalie isn't set and harder for them to cover all angles. Obviously i am no expert but i was surprised everyone kept trying to trick the keeper, some good penalties by our girls and our keeper done well.ย
It does seem tough to pass the keeper the nearer you get, or maybe its just different tactics eg. shoot earlier and should be harder for the keeper in theory.ย
Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? ๐๐๐๐๐๐ some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!ย
Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase
Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase
Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase
But they find time to show an interview with Megan Rapinoe and woffle about her
Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? ๐๐๐๐๐๐ some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!ย
She got there in the first place by virtue of the physiological advantages afforded by being born a man added to a background of competitive weight lifting to the detriment of elite women lifters who lack that inherent advantage.
It's wholly unfair to those women and nothing about bigotry or ignorance.
There is real bigotry in sneering at those who dare to question the fairness and legitimacy of these new ideas that we are all expected to believe unquestionably or be deemed bigots.
Would have got nowhere near the men's olympics which kind of proves the point.ย No born female would qualify for the male weightlifting events because of the inherent physiological differences that go deeper than hormone and testosterone.ย ย
I sympathise for Hubbard and I am sure she did not want to be thrust into the media spotlight but have far greater sympathy for women who have been hugely and unfairly disadvantaged and missed out on the olympics because of Hubbard's unfair advantage inherent of being born in a male body.
How do you know that for a fact?ย
She is training just as hard as all the other female weightlifters around the world. If she did have an unfair advantage she would win.ย
There a huge amount of stories about how men not at world-level quality manage to beat world-level females. Surely if Laurel was getting so much advantage, she'd do the same after training 24/7 for the event?ย
How on earth do you deduce that 'if she had an unfair advantage she would have won'? That is ridiculous logic. She has an unfair advantage but still didn't win.
Let's see how many 40 year old biological females are competing at the Olympics
Sorry, I don't get your point. So being young is an unfair advantage?
I don't think all gold medals are entirely equal though. All amazing and justified in their own way, just not entirely comparable.
I also don't think it is completely fair to compare total of medals won e.g.ย Charlotte Dujardin compared to Katherine Grainger. I think the 62 year old Australian eventer demonstrates it is possible to compete for longer and at a greater age in some sports than others. Also, some sports such as swimming and gymnastics have the opportunity to compete in multi-events.
No, I'm saying that her having grown up as a man is an unfair advantage over biological women, and that only because she's significantly older than the other weightlifters the advantage is diminished. I wasn't clear.
Rather poor coverage of the athletics then. Yes the BBC is restricted, but weird that on the main channel they only showed 10 seconds of the 3000m steeplechase
Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? ๐๐๐๐๐๐ some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!ย
Looking back, I don't think anyone did. The consensus was she had some unfair advantage not that she would necessarily win. But if she did, it would be unfair on others.
It isn't clear how much advantage and it will vary in different sports and whether the transitioning was before or after puberty etc.
Surely the onus is to find a way forward that allows everyone to compete fairly - it seems highly unlikely debating on here is going to change anyone's opinion.
Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? ๐๐๐๐๐๐ some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!ย
This would of been a much better wind up if youโd posted it an hour ago. You missed your chance.
Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? ๐๐๐๐๐๐ some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!ย
She got there in the first place by virtue of the physiological advantages afforded by being born a man added to a background of competitive weight lifting to the detriment of elite women lifters who lack that inherent advantage.
It's wholly unfair to those women and nothing about bigotry or ignorance.
There is real bigotry in sneering at those who dare to question the fairness and legitimacy of these new ideas that we are all expected to believe unquestionably or be deemed bigots.
Very 1984.
In weight lifting terms she fell at the very first hurdle. So is it an inherent advantage or not? Because the results seem to tell me otherwise.
Theres real bigotry on not admitting making a ridiculous judgement before seeing the results, then reframing the debate as something else so you donโt look like you were wrong and bigoted from the beginning. โWe have always been at war with eastasiaโ. Very 1984 indeed.ย
Laurel Hubbard out of the olympics you say? But what happened to her walking all over the competition because of the gender she was born as? ๐๐๐๐๐๐ some people on here have made themselves look silly and bigoted!ย
She got there in the first place by virtue of the physiological advantages afforded by being born a man added to a background of competitive weight lifting to the detriment of elite women lifters who lack that inherent advantage.
It's wholly unfair to those women and nothing about bigotry or ignorance.
There is real bigotry in sneering at those who dare to question the fairness and legitimacy of these new ideas that we are all expected to believe unquestionably or be deemed bigots.
Very 1984.
In weight lifting terms she fell at the very first hurdle. So is it an inherent advantage or not? Because the results seem to tell me otherwise.
Theres real bigotry on not admitting making a ridiculous judgement before seeing the results, then reframing the debate as something else so you donโt look like you were wrong and bigoted from the beginning. โWe have always been at war with eastasiaโ. Very 1984 indeed.ย
Bottom line...I don't think it is fair or equitable in the interests of sport that people who spend the vast majority of their life as men before identifying as women be able to compete on a level playing field with women who have been born women and nothing about Hubbard's performance has provided evidence to the contrary.ย ย
Many people appear to be of this view despite it unfairly imo raising calls of being transphobic, bigoted etc.
Most people have tried to be very respectful and sensitive in articulating this view from what I've read on here and the other thread that was on this weeks ago so as to not offend or be hurtful to anyone who mayย be trans and have a constructive debate.
However comments like yours above with the emojis levelled at implying that anyone who has a view on trans issues that impact the mainstream that doesn't chime with what has been decided by a minority to be the "truth" are bigots is very unconstructive and sneering.ย ย
Just because Hubbard didn't wipe the floor is not to say she has no unfair advantage from the outset over those athletes she beat in qualifying.
I'll not hijack the thread on this debate but it's not likely to change peoples' minds by being scornful and sneering, particularly when the example you have cited is inconclusive to the point being debated.
Comments
I don't think all gold medals are entirely equal though. All amazing and justified in their own way, just not entirely comparable.
I also don't think it is completely fair to compare total of medals won e.g.ย Charlotte Dujardin compared to Katherine Grainger. I think the 62 year old Australian eventer demonstrates it is possible to compete for longer and at a greater age in some sports than others. Also, some sports such as swimming and gymnastics have the opportunity to compete in multi-events.
Have you seen the comments by trans golfer Alison Perkins who doesn't think she should compete against women?
It does seem tough to pass the keeper the nearer you get, or maybe its just different tactics eg. shoot earlier and should be harder for the keeper in theory.ย
She got there in the first place by virtue of the physiological advantages afforded by being born a man added to a background of competitive weight lifting to the detriment of elite women lifters who lack that inherent advantage.
It's wholly unfair to those women and nothing about bigotry or ignorance.
There is real bigotry in sneering at those who dare to question the fairness and legitimacy of these new ideas that we are all expected to believe unquestionably or be deemed bigots.
Very 1984.
It isn't clear how much advantage and it will vary in different sports and whether the transitioning was before or after puberty etc.
Surely the onus is to find a way forward that allows everyone to compete fairly - it seems highly unlikely debating on here is going to change anyone's opinion.
where as the 10 Eurosport channels are showing everything, it's brilliant.
I'm loving the Handball
Theres real bigotry on not admitting making a ridiculous judgement before seeing the results, then reframing the debate as something else so you donโt look like you were wrong and bigoted from the beginning. โWe have always been at war with eastasiaโ. Very 1984 indeed.ย
If only there was another thread where this could be debated to death..... Again.ย
Bottom line...I don't think it is fair or equitable in the interests of sport that people who spend the vast majority of their life as men before identifying as women be able to compete on a level playing field with women who have been born women and nothing about Hubbard's performance has provided evidence to the contrary.ย ย
Many people appear to be of this view despite it unfairly imo raising calls of being transphobic, bigoted etc.
Most people have tried to be very respectful and sensitive in articulating this view from what I've read on here and the other thread that was on this weeks ago so as to not offend or be hurtful to anyone who mayย be trans and have a constructive debate.
However comments like yours above with the emojis levelled at implying that anyone who has a view on trans issues that impact the mainstream that doesn't chime with what has been decided by a minority to be the "truth" are bigots is very unconstructive and sneering.ย ย
Just because Hubbard didn't wipe the floor is not to say she has no unfair advantage from the outset over those athletes she beat in qualifying.
I'll not hijack the thread on this debate but it's not likely to change peoples' minds by being scornful and sneering, particularly when the example you have cited is inconclusive to the point being debated.